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[Slurpy]

Thing is, editorial decision also factors into what CNN/Fox News would cover, and there you see some bias...

For example, Fox News is really pushing the corruption of the UN/French officials (and connections of front companies), while CNN gives it the casual mention...

Deliberate or not, CNN does have a liberal bias, which is different from a conservative "attitude" that Fox News has...

The difference is, while you can see very liberal guests on Fox News (like Black Panther Party, NARAL/NOW reps) debate conservative guests on Fox, unlike CNN, some points are just taken for granted...

I've seen countless debates on abortion (with both sides represented by articulate, passionate guests), while I wonder if you are even allowed to see a discussion about the issue on CNN (actually, I've seen some debates, but it's mostly ignored compared to how Fox News doesn't worry about being politically correct when it decides something can be debated)...

While the fact that there are debates on abortion can bring some to see a conservative attitude, I think it's unfair to call Fox News "BIASED", because almost everytime I turn on the channel, I see guest from a liberal-to-very liberal point of view along with a conservative counterpart discussing something...

CNN DOES NOT have a liberal bias. It may be liberal RELATIVE to fox news (what isnt) but that doesnt make it 'liberal' by any stretch of the imagination. Humurous to suggest otherwise.

 

[Alcibiades]

It may be liberal RELATIVE to fox news (what isnt) but that doesnt make it 'liberal' by any stretch of the imagination.

that's the point...

If Fox News is giving the conservative point of view, that doesn't mean it's conservative, because it's also giving the liberal point of view...

Get it?

turn on to Hannity and Colmes, you'll see some very wacky liberals, some moderate liberals, etc... they all get their fair shake (even pro-choice organizations, anti-Israeli groups, The Black Panther Party, Democrats, Republicans, pro-life, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, etc...)

Just because Fox is choosing to have a wider variety of voices (including very liberal viewpoints), does not make it conservative...

Now CNN is afraid to even discuss abortion, and they basically have an attitude that the liberal point of view is default in presenting their news...

If CNN would give you two sides of the issue (like you'd find on Fox News if you watched Special Report's panel, Hannity and Colmes, Fox and Friends (whose most prominent guests in the past few days have been Ralph Nader and Joe Trippi), it wouldn't be crying about it's ratings...

 

[McLesterolBeast]

"not really. because they're not overly biased. "


if you believe that, then neither is foxnews.

See, here's the problem. You're trying to play it off as if both stations represent a left/right wing slant, whereas others recognize foxnews as far more partisan than CNN.

You feel that you yourself are being "fair and balanced" in suggesting that there's an equal tradeoff, and that people who are thinking otherwise are being... stubborn.

There is no such tradeoff. Fox news is a piss poor representation of right wing politics, unfortunately the only one most americans have access to, which is unfortunately contributing to the ignorance of it's viewers. CNN is a decent, though clearly imperfect representation of the left end of the spectrum. Any true conservative should be outraged by the fact that murdock insists and piling on this shit, forcing many into a state of complete political retardation. Look at efralope for a second. Do you really want little jedi-posing rancid fucks like him running around like a fucking retard? I'd find it shameful to have him associated with my views.

And this is a problem, because i dont think your dead grandfather would approve of what you're saying. I dont think he would.... i dont. So out of respect... out of respect for your grandfather, im going to stop dressing you down.

 

[Alcibiades]

Can't wait to see this documentary. I hope the fuckers get kicked off the air.

you know, if there is one thing I've noticied, is that conservative are much more open to free speech, debate, and open conversation...

I've noticied that a lot of "elite liberals" would be happy to see particular voices off the air, and would like to control the flow of information...

Bill Maher even admitted that, when convservatives (I think it was Limbaugh and others not sure) came to his defense first after making a contraversial comment on his show about the 9/11 hijackers being more brave than the US military since we used missiles...

He (a well-known "liberatian" with liberal leanings) said that free speech was being shut down at universities and that conservatives were more open to hear what others would say, but that liberals want to shut down any dissent...

I kind of agree with him considering the anger and rage people feel towards Bush and religious people (I'm neither a Bush fan nor religious)...

Sure there is some "outrage" about the Micheal Moore film, but in general, mainstream conservatives aren't saying it should be censored, instead they go at and challenge the points of the film, etc...

 

[DJ_Tet]

you know, if there is one thing I've noticied, is that conservative are much more open to free speech, debate, and open conversation...

You forgot a better sense of humor. I watched the Chris Rock classic "Head of State" last night. Pretty damn funny movie, although it has an unabashedly leftist slant. Being a conservative I was still able to laugh my ass off "God Bless America, and no one else" but in retrospect I couldn't help but think a similar movie with an opposite bias would have been slammed in the liberal media.

 

[Alcibiades]

You forgot a better sense of humor. I watched the Chris Rock classic "Head of State" last night. Pretty damn funny movie, although it has an unabashedly leftist slant. Being a conservative I was still able to laugh my ass off "God Bless America, and no one else" but in retrospect I couldn't help but think a similar movie with an opposite bias would have been slammed in the liberal media.

true, I'm generally a conservative and don't really find them repulsive (except on environmental/polluting issues) , but can laugh at jokes (even political ones) that are aimed against Conservative/Republicans...

I have to admit to even finding Franken funny at times (at other times he's just annoying though), and even the professed-Democrat crew at the Daily Show is cool to me...

Also, I can't wait to see Fahrenheit 9/11, it had an awesome trailer, especially at the end when Bush is talking about Palestinian militants and then the camera moves out and he's playing golf... HILARIOUS...

That said, I approve of his foreign/defense policies, I just don't like to be untight and parade around a "sophistication" that if you like to hear more voices/dissent, you are wrong and should be silenced...

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

you know, if there is one thing I've noticied, is that conservative are much more open to free speech, debate, and open conversation...

I've noticied that a lot of "elite liberals" would be happy to see particular voices off the air, and would like to control the flow of information...

*snip*

Sure there is some "outrage" about the Micheal Moore film, but in general, mainstream conservatives aren't saying it should be censored, instead they go at and challenge the points of the film, etc...

Honestly, until your post here I'd usually read from liberals saying exactly the opposite... which leads me to think that people on both sides making such claims of "information control" are regarding a small but vocal subset.

 

[Alcibiades]

Honestly, until your post here I'd usually read from liberals saying exactly the opposite... which leads me to think that people on both sides making such claims of "information control" are regarding a small but vocal subset.

you don't have to take my word for it, look at the situation...

Fox News is eager to take CNN and MSNBC on, they want to prove they are providing the multitude of voices people want to hear...

OTOH, I think CNN just wishes Fox News would disappear... It's to burdensome to actually have a debate on abortion, or talk about how the UN is seriously f*cked up in the human rights/corruption department...

they don't have to put on only conservative voices, they can but up several guests, but it seriously irks me that the de-facto standard attitude in news stories is that abortion is not a human rights issue, but a woman-rights issue... On Fox News, you'll hear both extremes, I've seen O'Reilly debate the issue with NOW/NARAL/Planed Parenthood on many occasions...

I mean, the morning news crew seems kinda conservative, but then there they are chatting away with Ellen Ratner, Democratic specialists, Ralph Nader (promoting his new book) and Joe Trippi the other day, and it was cool to see them getting along so cool...

You can actually see it in the eyes and faces of some achors (in Inside Politics, Andrea Mitchell, Peter Jennings, Dan Rather), that you could tell they are unhappy when something conservative-leaning comes along...

 

[SolidSnakex]

"Sure there is some "outrage" about the Micheal Moore film, but in general, mainstream conservatives aren't saying it should be censored, instead they go at and challenge the points of the film, etc..."

Some? There were several conservatives websites set up to send emails out to any movie theatres running the movie because they wanted it to be pulled. Both parties are closed minded and only want to see things their way. That's just how it is, one isn't more open than the other.

 

[TAJ]

>>>you know, if there is one thing I've noticied, is that conservative are much more open to free speech, debate, and open conversation...

I've noticied that a lot of "elite liberals" would be happy to see particular voices off the air, and would like to control the flow of information...<<<

Both sides are enemies of free speech, but for different reasons. In general, liberals are paternalistic, and want to censor to "protect" the "ignorant masses". In general, conservatives want to censor what they think is "dirty".

 

[Diablos]

dear god no then what would have happen to the conservativ pov? how will our children learn of it? thru watching cnn?

There's a conservative POV and a biased, arrogant POV. Fox News is like a hybrid of right-wing politics and communism. It's remarkable, I've never seen something like it!!

 

[weehomer]

So who has see the documentary? I finally saw it... Pretty amazing, and I recommend others to seek it out as well.

FOX "News" is nothing more than right-wing propoganda, as supervised by Rupert Murdoch.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CEFD9133AF933A15754C0A9629C8B63

These (FOX's ) methods are analyzed by an array of media critics and activists, and also exposed by former employees of Fox News Channel and its parent, the News Corporation, some of them speaking anonymously, with their voices disguised. The story they tell is of the systematic and deliberate dismantling of journalistic norms, and of an outfit that has become not merely a voice of conservatism but a cheerleader for the Republican Party. Sean Hannity, co-host of a popular public-affairs yelling match, uses part of each broadcast to count off the days until ''the re-election of George Bush,'' and daily memos from headquarters set an agenda of slanted priorities.

Watching Bill O'Reilly's belligerent, boorish ''interview'' with Jeremy Glick, whose father died in the attack on the World Trade Center and who came to oppose the administration's military response to 9/11, is enough to make you wish that the ghost of Joseph Welch would enter the studio and inquire, at long last, after Mr. O'Reilly's sense of decency. But those days -- when Welch undid Senator Joseph R. McCarthy on live television, and when that medium was new enough to bring a promise of transparency and truth-telling into the public consciousness -- are long past.

Mr. O'Reilly's fans are about as likely to watch ''Outfoxed'' as the patrons of that bar in Williamsburg are to tune in to ''Fox & Friends.'' For the foreseeable future, there will be more shouting, finger-pointing and tuning out, as each side accuses the other of bias, distortion and dishonesty.

As far as O'Reilly's "no spin" goes, how do you spin this?:

http://cdn.moveon.org/data/ShutUp_Final_BbandLo.mov

 

[CrimsonSkies]

I watch CNN and Fox News. I think it's pretty sad that folks pick up talking points on either to lable their news bias. Neither is liberal or Conservative slanted as a whole. The reason folks think that CNN is more liberal is because their strongest and most memoriable personalities are in fact left leaning. It's the flip for Fox. Both channels give both points of view, you just form a stronger impression of folks like Sean Hannity on Fox for example.

I personally don't see how anyone could call O'Reilly a conservative.

Edit - I saw that Jeremy Glick interview. He was a prick, and I enjoyed the interview.

 

[LuckyBrand]

I find it seriously funny that people claim Fox news is hardcore right wing and the others arent biased at all, but thats coming from someone who is liberal.

i am conservative, and I see and witness the liberal slant to CNN!

i think cnn and fox news both give people the news and opinions of both sides, but their main personalities, the biggets names, are either right wing or lean that way on one, or left wing or lean that way on the other..

bill o'reilly isnt a republican cheerleader by any means... sean hannity is.. colmes has half of one of the biggest shows on fox news and he is a democrat and a great speaker at that. greta van sustern is a liberal, no? many of the daytime businessy types are republicans, but generally keep their political views based around whats good for business/economy.

 

[Azih]

Dude, if the left leaning interviewees on a news station are treated like hostile witnesses and right leaning interviewees are given softball questions, then it is a biased news station.

 

[Cooter]

CNN DOES NOT have a liberal bias.

That made me chuckle.

Thanks Slurpy.

 

[Azih]

you gotta realise MSW, Slurpy's not in the U.S. From the outside , everything inside the U.S looks pretty much conservative.

 

[Socreges]

Dude, if the left leaning interviewees on a news station are treated like hostile witnesses and right leaning interviewees are given softball questions, then it is a biased news station.

Not only that, but FOX News consciously reports "right-wing material". Hell, that's what the documentary is about. No apologetic appeal to CNN "leaning left" will justify that.

 

[AstroLad]

I find it seriously funny that people claim Fox news is hardcore right wing and the others arent biased at all, but thats coming from someone who is liberal.

i am conservative, and I see and witness the liberal slant to CNN!

i think cnn and fox news both give people the news and opinions of both sides, but their main personalities, the biggets names, are either right wing or lean that way on one, or left wing or lean that way on the other..

bill o'reilly isnt a republican cheerleader by any means... sean hannity is.. colmes has half of one of the biggest shows on fox news and he is a democrat and a great speaker at that. greta van sustern is a liberal, no? many of the daytime businessy types are republicans, but generally keep their political views based around whats good for business/economy.

lmfao you think Colmes is a great Democratic speaker and not just some dumb moderate ex-comedian hired to be pushed around? Yeah, I really trust your observations on the media.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

I think Ben Affleck made a poignet point while talking to Larry King the other night at the floor of the convention.

Larry King: We are the only network still on the air still right now with our post convention coverage.

Ben Affleck: Well, FOX News is doing a John Kerry worships the devil thing.

ZING!

 

[Mustang]

But I loathe O'Reilley. One of the few people is actually hate to the very core. Despicable person. Id love the oppurtunity to spit on his face.

Well, thats real grown up of you.

 

[AirBrian]

I usually try and stay out of threads like these, because there is absolutely no point in arguing. People have their pre-determined beliefs/views and no one is going to go, “OMG, you [insert Democrats/Republicans] are right! How do I become a registered [Democrat/Republican]?”

That being said, this is ridiculous. Of course Fox News is slanted. Every news outlet is biased. CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, newspapers, magazines etc. While they might report the news very similarly, their key figureheads have their views. Everyone has his or her view – we’re human. These news stations are owned by corporations who have their agendas as well, and they will indirectly and directly influence the content. From the anchors to what stories are covered and which ones are not to live coverage of events to the time allocated for events -- all slanted. To say that the media isn't biased is just ignorant. IMO, of course.

 

[Mega Man's Electric Sheep]

I have seen Fox news a few times. One time some guy was doing a rant-editorial on France. He called French people "cheese-eating surrender monkeys". I have yet to see other news sources mocking an entire group of people in a demographic pandering kinda way. Fox news has a smug, self-satisfied way of reporting that feels much different than other networks. It goes beyond a left/right thing to me. I think a lot of Fox news is mean spirited in a "look at us, see, we're not liberal" way.

As for the "liberals have no sense of humour", this gets trotted out whenever conservatives say or do something dumb. I have a sense of humour, I laugh my ass off whenever I think of W ketchup. http://www.wketchup.com/ Tell Heinz to "Shove it!"

 

[heavy liquid]

You guys are missing the point. It's not that FOX is conservative or CNN is liberal...

The point is that FOX is LYING to everyone by waiving their "FAIR AND BALANCED" slogan around in front of an American flag. "Fair and Balanced"? Ha.

Equally entertaining when they give their biased viewpoint on a topic, and then flash "YOU DECIDE!" on the screen. Right.

Here's a telling statistic: 67% of Fox viewers believe that a link between Saddam Hussein and the 9/11 attacks has already been proven, as compared to 10% of PBS viewers.

Did anyone here even see the Outfoxed documentary?

 

[sprsk]

i saw the documentary and it was interesting, now every time i watch fox news i notice these funny little things they do.

 

[Hitokage]

The biases that drive the mainstream media aren't necessarily political or ideological, but rather born out of their private nature: money. Generally speaking, the news is geared to get you watching and keeping their operations funded, rather than make the best effort to cover the issues. Of course, republicans have taken it upon themselves to label this behavior as a liberal bias, giving themselves the opportunity to put forth a conservative slant in the name of "balancing".

The mainstream media is indeed packed full of clowns and dissemblers, but when put under scrutiny, there is actually no reliably liberal trend. Scripts and talking points are recited without challenge or fact-checking, even when it hurts the left, and even in supposedly "liberal" publications such as the New York Times. Actually, many of the talking points that originated in right-wing think tanks duriing the Bush/Gore campaign weren't pushed to the public by means of right-wing publications such as the New York Post of the Washington Times, but rather the New York Times. Even CNN, which has been called liberal in this thread, continues to carry the easily debunkable "87 billion" script.

Oh, and the idea that the far right is more conductive to free speech and debate is utterly laughable. Sloppy fact checking packaged as "the other side" is NOT an acceptable way to conduct poltical discourse.

Here's a telling statistic: 67% of Fox viewers believe that a link between Saddam Hussein and the 9/11 attacks has already been proven, as compared to 10% of PBS viewers.

PBS and NPR were combined in that study.

 

[Hitokage]

Oh, and let's not forget the "1st and 4th most liberal senators" bullshit. Data mining at its finest.

 

[heavy liquid]

PBS and NPR were combined in that study.

Whoops. Thanks...

i saw the documentary and it was interesting, now every time i watch fox news i notice these funny little things they do.

I like the "some people say" phrase that's all too common with FOX.

It's Fox's way of having the appearance of hard data and real sources, when in fact it is merely the commentator's way of injecting opinion without naming it as such. Still, when repeated over and over, the cumulative effect can no doubt change minds.

 

[Socreges]

Is CNN airing the Republican National Convention?

 

[effzee]

Is CNN airing the Republican National Convention?

why in the world wouldnt they?

 

[Socreges]

why in the world wouldnt they?

Do I take that as a "yes"?

 

[effzee]

well if they have covered them the past yrs i dont see why they wouldnt.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Do I take that as a "yes"?

While it seems a silly thing to even question, yes, I heard them explicitly mentioning this fact last night.

 

[Socreges]

While it seems a silly thing to even question, yes, I heard them explicitly mentioning this fact last night.

Well, let me explain. I know next to nothing about these conventions. As far as I'm concerned, they are usually to officially elect the nominee and rouse support. Considering Bush is already the president, the Republican equivalent might be less of an affair.

The only news network I get is CNN. If only, for instance, FOX News airs it, I wouldn't be able to watch Bush's address. Which I'm sure will be very entertaining.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Ahh, fair enough. You don't get any C-SPAN? Quite nice to just watch the speeches and not have to hear pundits talking about it afterward. Though this year CNN has Mo Rocca, so I had to pay that some attention.

 

[Dead]

Well, thats real grown up of you.

I was being pretty kind with that post too. I wouldnt mind seeing him dragged through mud and get tar and feathered as well.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Well, let me explain. I know next to nothing about these conventions. As far as I'm concerned, they are usually to officially elect the nominee and rouse support. Considering Bush is already the president, the Republican equivalent might be less of an affair.

The only news network I get is CNN. If only, for instance, FOX News airs it, I wouldn't be able to watch Bush's address. Which I'm sure will be very entertaining.

No, its still just as large as an affair as the Democrats. Its kinda like a rebuttle, and its free publicity of the Republican party. They have been just a way to get people fired up since the 60s, and no real news really comes out of it except the possiblity of a future star like Obama (that guy is gonna be president), or massive protests like the Democratic Convention in '68, and probably the Republican Convention this year.

 

[McLesterolBeast]

I like the "some people say" phrase that's all too common with FOX.

It's Fox's way of having the appearance of hard data and real sources, when in fact it is merely the commentator's way of injecting opinion without naming it as such. Still, when repeated over and over, the cumulative effect can no doubt change minds.

I've always personally been a fan of the convenient observations attributing some negative trait to the opposition or some positive trait to one's own party. The funniest part is that retards like efralope think they've come to some revelation when interpreting these bogus correlations.

"I've noticied, is that conservative are much more open to free speech, debate, and open conversation..."

It's especially brilliant given the premise of liberalism and conservatism.

What a fucking retard. His stupidity is only surpassed by his ugliness. The life long trail of rejection has left him bitter and warped. Someone should put this worthless fuck out of his misery.

 

[explodet]

I'm about 20 minutes into the documentary.
Some of the points they're making are rather belabored to me, they could have cut a few things and still made their point. Maybe I'm just used to the 44 minute documentaries on TV.

Now I don't get Fox News up here, but I'm left scratching my head at what I'm seeing here. Now I watch CNN occasinally and it's increasingly becoming as much commentary as it is news, which bugs me.... and Fox News is ever more commentary?

The Bill O'Reilly "Shut Up" segment and the "Some People Say" segments were both riots, though.

 

[FnordChan]

I watched Outfoxed this weekend. Caveat: I don't have cable and have thus never seen Fox News.

That said, Outfoxed did a great job of kicking Fox News in the teeth repeatedly. The basic outline of the film is that Rupert Murdoch is a staunch supporter of the far right and uses his news network to promote a Republican agenda. Senior vice-president for news John Moody sends out daily memos that set the tone for the day - memos which are essentially directives from the GOP. Staff members who don't jump to follow the tone of the memos find themselves in deep shit. And that's just the beginning.

Now, if Murdoch wanted to start the 24 hour editorial channel Fox Opinion, that would be one thing, but the kicker here is the whole "Fair and Balanced" schtick. It's kinda like watching 24 hours of Farenheit 9/11 being promoted as unbiased news. At least Michael Moore comes right out and says, "Why, yes, I do have a political agenda".

So does Outfoxed, of course, but they aren't exactly hiding that, and they have plenty of damning evidence (and a legion of ex-Fox News employees) backing them up. They also have Walter Cronkite show up and say, "Fox News is run by utter asshats." I'm paraphrasing a bit there, but you get the point.

In short, Outfoxed is a great flick. Of course, I'm a rabid liberal, but it's still a solid bit of documentary filmmaking. If you're a fan of Fox News, take the 75 minutes to watch Outfoxed for yourself and judge for yourself.

FnordChan

 

[Azih]

haha

OUTFOXED: WE DOCUMENT, YOU DECIDE!

 

[BigGreenMat]

I just want to say that there is a difference between conservatives and the George W. Bush far right. On our campus my favorite newspaper was the conservative Dartmouth Review, meanwhile the Dartmouth Free Press was terrible. What I've found though is that small town and small organization conservatism is VASTLY different from Presidential and Congressional conservatism. Bush and his cronies shouldn't be called conservatives. They are radicals.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

They are radicals.

I believe the correct term for someone far to the right is reactionist. They seem to want turn back the politcal clock.