How could you not understand what he said?
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Republique Kickstarter by Ryan Payton - NOW FOR PC AND MAC! [Ended, $555K funded]
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How could you not understand what he said?
If you listen to music, the same has occurred with music artists that are labelled "indie" artists (and this happened in the past with "alternative" music, which used to describe a certain underground/indie scene. Alternative is now a genre, published by major labels and not a descriptor of independence.) On the gaming scene, just look at how often people label Everyday Shooter and games made by thatgamecompany as indie, even though they're published exclusively on the PS3 by Sony.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Okay, this is neither the music nor the movie industry...
I don't see what some movie companies wanting in on that indie cred and naming their studios as such has to do with it. They probably just didn't wanna write "low budget movies made here" or whatever.
I know I'm not gonna see Mega Man 10 coverage on TIGSource or Independent Gaming, or have Capcom show up as a contender on IGF (well, that last one might happen some day, lol, and it'll be a sad day) on account of making an 8bit style game.
And thatgamecompany is an independent studio (or was, did Sony buy them?), why wouldn't they be called as such?
Maybe some traits of indie games are often recognisable due to many of them being low budget and what not, but that doesn't mean all who may display such traits are suddenly indie, nor that you aren't indie if you break that mold... We've had low budget games from bigger companies for ages and I never saw them called indie. And you definitely can't characterise genres as indie, that's even worse than art styles. Platform game = indie = Nintendo is indie? It makes zero sense to me but eh, I guess if people keep calling them like that the term may eventually be distorted as it seems to have in those other fields you mention.
I don't think that's yet the prelevant way of looking at it in the games industry. I could be wrong, but I'd think I'd have encountered this difference on GAF and other places I frequent much more often if it was so, whereas you may not have perceived the difference because it's most likely that what I consider indie is also included in your definition, if only as a sub set.
I don't see what some movie companies wanting in on that indie cred and naming their studios as such has to do with it. They probably just didn't wanna write "low budget movies made here" or whatever.
I know I'm not gonna see Mega Man 10 coverage on TIGSource or Independent Gaming, or have Capcom show up as a contender on IGF (well, that last one might happen some day, lol, and it'll be a sad day) on account of making an 8bit style game.
And thatgamecompany is an independent studio (or was, did Sony buy them?), why wouldn't they be called as such?
Maybe some traits of indie games are often recognisable due to many of them being low budget and what not, but that doesn't mean all who may display such traits are suddenly indie, nor that you aren't indie if you break that mold... We've had low budget games from bigger companies for ages and I never saw them called indie. And you definitely can't characterise genres as indie, that's even worse than art styles. Platform game = indie = Nintendo is indie? It makes zero sense to me but eh, I guess if people keep calling them like that the term may eventually be distorted as it seems to have in those other fields you mention.
I don't think that's yet the prelevant way of looking at it in the games industry. I could be wrong, but I'd think I'd have encountered this difference on GAF and other places I frequent much more often if it was so, whereas you may not have perceived the difference because it's most likely that what I consider indie is also included in your definition, if only as a sub set.
I don't know if they do, but if Sony owns the IP and funds the project I wouldn't call it "indie".
EDIT: Sure the studio could be called indie, but once a project gets funded for anything other than marketing or distribution they tend to lose that indie label.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
It's the entertainment biz, and indie is big right now.
bistromathics
facing a bright new dawn
I was a big fan of the OG controls. Loved the use of analog buttons to hold people up...like you were squeezing the trigger of a gun, getting ready to fire it. But yeah, most people thought the mgs4 controls were an improvement.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
What? No. Once you have another company owning you, then you are no longer an independent company.
Let's not make this a "you are not indie if you have money" discussion.
That's not really what I'm talking about. This is about what the term "indie" represents, because it's no longer as simple as being an independent developer anymore.
Like, going back to the Hollywood example, those "indie" films which were funded/distributed by major studios still are considered to be low-budget (usually).
onlyindreams
Banned
why is this still not getting a push... ugh
Because you never get a second chance to make a first impression. Even if people just hear about it now, they see it's far from the goal with half the time period gone, and don't even bother.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
There are some talented people in the field, but when you take a quick gander at other enthusiast journalistic industries, gaming really is a joke.
That is pretty sad, since the way Kickstarter is designed is to specifically discourage that kind of logic.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
Is it feasible to make a second attempt with PC and Mac as platforms? What if they tried a smaller goal?
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
I don't hold anything against this game, it doesn't look like something I'd really like to play or anything.
Yet I am curious on what would happen to the game if the KS failed. Would it still release?
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
from a distance the Camoflaj logo looks like the Discovery album cover
slaughterking
Member
There's really no point in having a smaller goal and collect money from people if it's not enough to realize the project.
alexandros
Banned
Of course it did. It was very bad judgement on their part.
â Narayan
Member
Absolutely. When the Kickstarter launched, I knew it would end up dead in the water due to iOS exclusivity.
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
It really was a misunderstanding of the difference between a large user base and a passionate user base.
A successful IOS game can end up being played by millions but if that game where to disappear most would just find something else, IOS gamers are more like a giant sea beast gliding with it's mouth open, it takes what ever comes in, never seeks anything out.
There is a photo with their small team on their site. It's pretty small. They say they have contract workers occasionally though, and of course they need to pay for voice actors and motion capture actors.
6 people on the core team then, I guess?
If it is just six people, those actors must be getting paid if they're looking for 1m funding to spend over 15 or 16 months. I'm assuming that the core team are taking minimal salaries...
Pachterballs
Banned
@ $140k?
yeah, should have started PC/Mac and then moved to iOS. I don't see this KS making it. Too little too late. They really fucked themselves; whats the precedent on KS on try and try again? eeek
the guy who said that the bannersaga is by "named" developers. Um, its not. Their pledge video was a bunch of dudes in a basement/garage.
yeah, should have started PC/Mac and then moved to iOS. I don't see this KS making it. Too little too late. They really fucked themselves; whats the precedent on KS on try and try again? eeek
the guy who said that the bannersaga is by "named" developers. Um, its not. Their pledge video was a bunch of dudes in a basement/garage.
The banner sage dudes namedropped Bioware a bunch though.
And I'm pretty sure you can just recreate the exact same kickstarter again if you want.
this is what it sounds like. you have access to the surveillance and other stuff in this facility, you can manipulate things to give Hope an escape route. sounds pretty cool.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Because Camouflaj and Logan aren't what they think they are.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
What's that?
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
I feel bad for them, because they are definitely in a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't situation. The problem with their project is that it was initially described as being incredibly iPhone-focused, to the point where major plot points and levels are based around the concept of using your phone. The fact that their PC/Mac update says they're going to do special, unique things to replace those elements means that now, they are going to be doing significantly more work for the same amount of money. It's just hard to believe.
I mean, it's weird, but they probably would have fared better if they said, "Oh, we're going to find a way to make it feel like you're on a phone while playing the game on the PC." It is technically the worse option for the player (and the way they're going is undeniably better for the game and the player), but it just seems like too much work for too little money now.
Also, the time it took to announce a PC/Mac port basically killed the hype. It's the same reason why Shadowrun didn't get a massive boost when they announced linux support: many people who cared probably gave the page a once-over, found a fairly definitive sounding "no," and then wrote the game off completely. What are the chances they're paying attention to a game they've already written off doing something that might interest them?
I came in ready and willing to fund, but then I saw it was only for iOS. After the clusterfuck of explanations, justifications and now flip-flops I would rather just keep my money.
Camouflaj might not be, but Logan are very highly regarded.
outunderthestars
Banned
I am in the same situation. I still don't understand how a small company is now going to be able to make both versions of the game with the same funding without compromising on the vision of either.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Maybe because the PC version will come after the iOS version which means that it may utilise extra funding from the sales, and while there may be changes required to fit the new platform and its input methods in terms of dialogue, graphics and utility, it's still not as big a task as creating a whole new game as the majority of the content can be used on any platform? Also maybe while they previously were adamant on being iOS only, now that they're targeting a PC version also they can have that in mind while still working on the former in order to make the engine and content more platform agnostic? I dunno, it seems plausible. At least I don't think they'd lie about their commitment, even if it's new, and then put out a shitty PC version (like, really shitty, not shitty because it doesn't have all DX11 bells and whistles or something, so if that's what people want they probably shouldn't pledge, as it's still a very low budget project compared to real AAA stuff) because that would be much like any other Kickstarter project lying about their intention to put out a decent game with whatever consequences that would have on their future career.
IIRC, Ryan did me a HUGE solid back during his time at Konami.
Completely out of the blue and very awesome of him.
I don't really have much interest in this game, but I think I'd like to return the favor and kick a sum his way...
Edit - Bonus points if this succeeds, as then I'll be tweaking the nose of that TA douche.
Completely out of the blue and very awesome of him.
I don't really have much interest in this game, but I think I'd like to return the favor and kick a sum his way...
Edit - Bonus points if this succeeds, as then I'll be tweaking the nose of that TA douche.
outunderthestars
Banned
And that is my problem. It quickly turns into a series of "maybe", "probably", and "possibly"
I'm not giving them money for that.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Everything on Kickstarter is a maybe as far as the results go. All that you can know for sure is who is initially involved (well, sort of, I'm sure someone could impersonate someone else but if the project got any kind of visibility he'd be found out soon enough). Even if it was a PC only project right from the start you'd be able to have the exact same doubts about their capability to deliver a decent PC (or any platform) game, and all anyone could respond with would be a maybe. It is what it is. I'm not saying you should pledge. I haven't. But not because I think they'll be jerks and outsource the port to some clueless fuck that will butcher it and omit basics like resolution options and decent mouse controls, I'm just not sure I'll enjoy the vision they want to realise at this point, since it's not something I can relate to without seeing it in action. Maybe when/if they can show more/launch it I'll pre-order/buy it.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Actually I think it will be released. I get the impression that many of these Kickstarter projects are already funded, they just use Kickstarter as a way to sell copies of the game before it's actually released and as a means of generating publicity.
Republique looks intriguing but the initial iOS annoucement left a sour taste in my mouth and I'm still not convinced enough to plunk down $15 after seeing just one trailer. I do hope the game gets made though.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Do you have any evidence? Which projects in particular? It would be pretty assinine to take people's money (many give more than the price of a copy, it's not just like pre-orders) if it's not to be used for the production so it's a very serious accusation.
Republique I think may be released if they can get additional publisher funding, but iirc they said that in that case they'd have to basically sell the rights to the IP for that to happen. It's plausible, as publishers often have such strict demands when funding.
Not that anything is set in stone, maybe their inability to get interest on Kickstarter will make publishers back down too. Or they'll keep trying to pitch it and actually manage to secure a better deal than they previously thought possible. We'll see.
Ryan said something about inviting him to a podcast about the game, and then the guy turned into this ''Camouflaj paladin'' or something.
Confidence Man
Member
∀ Narayan;37398287 said:
Doesn't seem to me like the sort of project that would've been very successful regardless of platform.
DiscoJer
Member
I think the actual game, if made, would sell very well. But I just don't think it's something that people are crying out to fund.
I mean, you saw a huge response to 3 projects (TBS, SRR, WL2) because it was something that wasn't really being made anymore - turn based RPGs on the PC except for the Spiderweb guy)
This OTOH is a 3rd person stealth game, sort of in the vein of MGS but without combat. Neat idea, but not a formerly popular genre that is now virtually dead.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
It's not like stealth games are a dime a dozen like FPS or other genres... And even the two big ones have portions of fans disappointed with the recent entries. I don't think this is as simple as "like MGS or SC but with less combat" either. If it was, I might have pledged, but as is it I'm not sure I'll enjoy it. They also had advantages over other projects in that they have kinda sorta working and rather visually pleasing content to show off, while others mostly had promises. I really think it's just that they started on the wrong foot. Not that it could easily be an over the top success that raised 2 million but it could have done better if they had just been more cautious with their goals and presentation of them. First impressions and all that as others said already. Even still there's a lot of negativity surrounding the project, as evident by many posts in the thread. I think it's a bit unfair, the guys had a vision and now have eaten some humble pie, it's not like they said anything nasty like wanting to only make stuff for iOS master race instead of filthy PC peasants. But if it's how people feel then it's how people feel, that's their right.
But yeah, I don't think you need a dead genre to do well, just a less than crowded niche. Like for turn based party RPGs you pretty much have Spiderweb's output these days, and some even more obscure indie games (KOTC, Telepath, etc) leaving plenty of room for people who promise or deliver the right things. But I think even a Gothic-like game could do well if it focused on the right hardcore niche, even though you have the Elder Scrolls series, Risen, Two Worlds, and a few more popping up here and there. Maybe X-Com like games, even though there are plenty turn based strategy games around. Anything with room for competition, whether that's because the genre isn't quite crowded or because they have some interesting twist that can sell people on it.
But yeah, I don't think you need a dead genre to do well, just a less than crowded niche. Like for turn based party RPGs you pretty much have Spiderweb's output these days, and some even more obscure indie games (KOTC, Telepath, etc) leaving plenty of room for people who promise or deliver the right things. But I think even a Gothic-like game could do well if it focused on the right hardcore niche, even though you have the Elder Scrolls series, Risen, Two Worlds, and a few more popping up here and there. Maybe X-Com like games, even though there are plenty turn based strategy games around. Anything with room for competition, whether that's because the genre isn't quite crowded or because they have some interesting twist that can sell people on it.
Father_Brain
Banned
Agreed, and that's without taking into account the lack of direct control for Hope. They really needed a longer gameplay demo to prove the concept, whether playable to the public or not.
MrCunningham
Member
Announcing a Mac and Windows version did help quite a bit, but uninformatively it is not sustainable enough to really push it. Things are still looking better though, but I don't know if it will be enough? They haven't even hit $250k yet and there is less than 12 days to go...
http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/486250632/republique-by-camouflaj-logan
Takedown was able get it fund after releasing a "we fucked" up vid after a disastrous Kickstarter campaign they had put out. Acknowledging where they mess up Though it helps their Kickstater was for it to hit 200k, if it was any higher they wouldn't have made it so late in the campaign. If this campaign fails and restart it again later on. They should lower the funding goal a bit from 500k to possibly to 300k-350k, also have it last longer than just 30 days, look at Jane Jensen's Kickstarter campaign, if she hadn't put more than 30 days she wouldn't have met her goal, which should reach it in a couple of days.
funkystudent
Member
Silly question.
Who is Logan?
What have they worked on before?
Who is Logan?
What have they worked on before?
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
If they relaunched the campaign at anything other than 500k, I think it would put a whole lot of doubt in a lot of people's minds. It would make it look like they are just out for whatever amount of money they can get and didn't actually budget their project properly.
Indeed it does, being able to manipulate security systems would be cool too but that could go against the "no killing" part (turrets, barriers, etc)