Current AMD GPUs aren't very good at PT. There is a higher cost to PT than on nvidia GPUs. Even on Indiana Jones AMD was locked out of path tracing features. Hopefully this is changing soon with AMD improving things on PS6/RDNA5 with their radiance cores.
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Resident evil 9 path tracing on ps5 pro?
- Thread starter hussar16
- Start date
yogaflame
Member
Maybe the billiards game.
Radical_3d
Member
TrebleShot
Member
Haha it would melt a PS5Pro its 30fps on a 5090 withtout heavy upscaling and frame gen.
Doctor Hades
Member
High end AMD graphics cards can run the PC version's path-tracing, I understand, so I would say that it would not be possible on the PS5 Pro without some serious downgrades to other aspects of the graphics pipeline as well as framerate / resolution. Also, path-tracing requires a lot of memory and the Pro only has 16 GB of unified system RAM.
The Pro is just a slightly enhanced PS5 at the end of the day with no increase in the amount of RAM and no upgrade to the CPU, both of which would have made it a better alternative to a mid-range PC in my opinion. It would also have cost a lot more though.
The Pro is just a slightly enhanced PS5 at the end of the day with no increase in the amount of RAM and no upgrade to the CPU, both of which would have made it a better alternative to a mid-range PC in my opinion. It would also have cost a lot more though.
SplunkyMunkey
Member
I've seen videos of classic doom with RT and PT and looks amazing i would have that
PaintTinJr
Member
It largely depends on how much rendering headroom and memory free you have after the cost of rendering the native raster framebuffer(with ML AI upscaling) to then be able to build on the fly (per frame) a ML AI lighting predictor by firing a small number of random rays as the model's training data, then using the frame's new battleships algorithm AI model to best use the RT headroom you have to efficiently send/bounce rays to find lighting discontinuities, and then hope you have enough headroom to run an ML AI lighting denoiser to widen the coverage of the rays. so the final render has no lighting gaps
To achieve this on Pro the native render probably needs to be 960x540p, so PSSR2/FSR4.1 will need to improve by a factor of x4 to make the headroom and image clean enough, or a drop to 30fps @ 960x1080 on a first party game like Intergalactic.
/edit
scratch that. Turns out the siggraph Amethyst paper on per frame MLP training is a different project to AMD/PlayStation real-time hardware, which uses generalized PT pre-trained inference models only for real-time.
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HRK69
Member
Why not wait for a PlayStation 7?
Stuart360
Member
Thats at native 4k to be fair. I got 60fps at 1080p max settings with PT and DLSS Quality with my 4070ti. Although thats still way more powerful than a Pro.
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neocycle
Member
Because that's 10 years away and probably won't have any benefits.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
The dev saying it possible and re9 runs at 60fps. I think its achievable at half the framerate
AMD RDNA 2 / 3 or whatever cerny sauce in PS5 Pro are not even in the same ballpark of Nvidia's performance for path tracing and certainly not a 5090
Ain't happening for RE9
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lastmessiah
Member
Lmao
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
At 30 fps, 720p internal resolution and some medium settings, maybe. Im running it at 1080p internal at 60 fps all settings maxed out on a 5080 with around 20-30% gpu available in most areas. Hell, i was able to run cyberpunk at 48-60 fps at 720p internal resolution on my 3080.
But path tracing is currently implemented by nvidia engineers for high end nvidia cards. Amd cards will likely need more optimization than just porting whatever was coded in by nvidia.
But path tracing is currently implemented by nvidia engineers for high end nvidia cards. Amd cards will likely need more optimization than just porting whatever was coded in by nvidia.
Possible, yes. Viable option for gameplay, no. On PC, even for 30fps you need a really good GPU to run PT at 30fps with DLSS.
In regards to what's technical possible: when your hardware supports your software solutions, that's 'technical possible', e.g. it's technical not possible to run Requiem on a PS1 because you can't scale back visual effects down enough and even then you have other limitations.
These kind of statements are rather meaningless, especially when we're talking about consumer products and not about research-based/academic stuff.
In regards to what's technical possible: when your hardware supports your software solutions, that's 'technical possible', e.g. it's technical not possible to run Requiem on a PS1 because you can't scale back visual effects down enough and even then you have other limitations.
These kind of statements are rather meaningless, especially when we're talking about consumer products and not about research-based/academic stuff.
Cumulus
Member
That is very... very far in theory-land when we haven't seen a single case of viable PT performance on AMD hardware on even their highest end current hardware. If it was that easy AMD would already have made it work for image reasons alone.
I'm sorry, are we at the end life of switch 2 already?
Did you ever apologise to tmlDan when you had no "technical knowledge"?:
Yeah that massive bandwidth and raster performance of a 60W 8nm 2013 era hardware is surely going to have tons of beefy headroom for state of the art upscaling similar to a $2000 GPU
Yea i don't expect much from you guys and tech knowledge, really not much, like a tiny little spoon, that's what you don't get. The training MODEL has changed. It runs on ALL RTX tensor cores, all the way back to Turing, and performs better with lower ms of rendering.
Very hard concepts I know
whAt iS mL? Aiii?
You were claiming transformer model running on switch 2 easy. Lot of titles couldn't even run regular "full fledged" CNN due to framerate targets. This was exactly what I was telling you:
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Buggy Loop
Gold Member
The game always calls for hardware agnostic calls via DXR though. Only thing that would be nvidia exclusive is the bypass they did for SER and OMM as we discussed yesterday that DXR will get in 1.2.
After receiving that API call though, its all on GPU drivers and how it translates the high-level API calls into GPU commands. This is where AMD seem to have mostly ignored how to handle these for path tracing. Their focus seem to be on the popular games that keep coming back in benchmarks (cyberpunk) over improving general logics.
Portal RTX comes to mind, how many peoples blamed Nvidia of "sabotaging" AMD performances? When in fact the AMD's compiler (it's drunk), decides to make a gigantic ubershader that takes 99ms of frametime. Nothing to do with path tracing, the compiler is just being derp and made the call to reserve for this when the game does not call for it. It used the maximum amount of VGPRs possible on the AMD cards.
But as
Cumulus
says, there hasn't been a single showcase of path tracing on AMD side. But 9700 XT got a nice leap good performance wise, just not cutting it compared to Nvidia's
More importantly, it's software side too. I think AMD has to developer the following (...and they are)
- Ray reconstruction
- ML frame gen
- Neural radiance cache
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Again, is the lifespan of Switch 2 already at its end? Do you understand how it can take a while to refine a generic model to a fixed hardware optimization? How long it took before AMD / Sony even found a solution that would be recommended over the FSR pixel slop?
RE Requiem uses full fat DLSS you moron. A current gen game and a looker too.
You weren't telling me shit Three, you're regurgitating the same shit as your previous banned buddies were. The same banned buddy that claimed Switch 2 would be Switch 1 pro. Fucking dumbass James.
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OLED_Gamer
Member
Can it run? Sure.
Note that a 5070ti gets about 98fps with 2x frame gen at 1440p, highly doubt the Pro could run PR at 60fps even at 1080p.
Note that a 5070ti gets about 98fps with 2x frame gen at 1440p, highly doubt the Pro could run PR at 60fps even at 1080p.
Cumulus
Member
you guys seriously have to stop trying to extrapolate pt performance based on NVIDIA results....
Look at any PT benchmark, ever. AMD just completely falls off a cliff there, even with their current top end hardware which is far beyond the PS5Pro`s capabilities....
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Yep, I own a 9070XT its a fabulous card however if I had wanted path tracing I would have sold a kidney and bought a 5090. Let just enjoy what we have
Bonkerzzz
Member
Should be doable at 240p upscaled to 540p, textures disabled, and a cinematic 12 FPS.
OLED_Gamer
Member
Thanks but I am aware. I only referenced the 5070ti because PT is locked to Nvidia only in RE9. There are no AMD GPUs to compare to.
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PeteBull
Member
Just to give u guys an idea, we talking path tracing, which is multitudes more demanding from ray tracing.
To give u an idea how demanding path tracing actually is, look how demainding it is in cp2077 on much stronger 9070xt(ps5pr0 is roughly around 16gigs 9060xt performance in games):
Thats xgen game, cp2077 in native 1080p, can barely hold stable 40 fps on 9070xt which is 66% stronger from 16gigs 9060xt aka ps5pr0 gpu.
For reference rtx 5070 cant hold stable 1080p60 with pt even if used dlss quality(aka internal 720p upscaled to 1080p):
IQ already is far from perfect and we talking dlss 4.5, ps5pr0 is way weaker and pssr is worse in ai upscaling from that so realistically maybe we could get 720p30fps mode on ps5pr0 maybe? But at that point any gains from true genuine pt wouldnt be enough to cover losses from terrible IQ and 30fps
In other words at least when it comes to proper PT and ps5pr0:
Wait for holidays 2027 or whenever ps6 launches and then we can talk.
To give u an idea how demanding path tracing actually is, look how demainding it is in cp2077 on much stronger 9070xt(ps5pr0 is roughly around 16gigs 9060xt performance in games):
Thats xgen game, cp2077 in native 1080p, can barely hold stable 40 fps on 9070xt which is 66% stronger from 16gigs 9060xt aka ps5pr0 gpu.
AMD Radeon RX 9060 XT 16 GB Specs
AMD Navi 44, 3130 MHz, 2048 Cores, 128 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2518 MHz, 128 bit
www.techpowerup.com
IQ already is far from perfect and we talking dlss 4.5, ps5pr0 is way weaker and pssr is worse in ai upscaling from that so realistically maybe we could get 720p30fps mode on ps5pr0 maybe? But at that point any gains from true genuine pt wouldnt be enough to cover losses from terrible IQ and 30fps
In other words at least when it comes to proper PT and ps5pr0:
Wait for holidays 2027 or whenever ps6 launches and then we can talk.
Bojji
Gold Member
Minecraft with path tracing was shown to DF if I remember correctly, running on Series X 30fps/720p I think. It was never released to the public:
Zacfoldor
Gold Member
The game looks incredible on PS5 Pro I assume thanks to the new tech that released for the console alongside the game.
I didn't even have to revert drivers or suffer at all. No tweaks. Probably the best looking game on the console and vastly superior to the vanilla PS5 version. It was just perfect on day 1.
I didn't even have to revert drivers or suffer at all. No tweaks. Probably the best looking game on the console and vastly superior to the vanilla PS5 version. It was just perfect on day 1.
viveks86
Member
Minecraft is too simple from a path tracing standpoint compared to requiem. Simple geometry that minimizes divergence, lack of transparencies, easy to rebuild bvh due to very few, if any, objects changing every frame etc. PT itself should be possible on current gen consoles, but game complexity will cripple it.
Bojji
Gold Member
Yeah, it's only realistically possible on Minecraft and Quake RTX level. Next level - Portal RTX would kill consoles just like it's killing AMD GPUs.
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Man STFU, I don't want to derail the thread further just because you can't take an obvious L.
You were claiming transformer model was even more performant:
Not just once in that thread either while calling others stupid:
Yea i don't expect much from you guys and tech knowledge, really not much, like a tiny little spoon, that's what you don't get. The training MODEL has changed. It runs on ALL RTX tensor cores, all the way back to Turing, and performs better with lower ms of rendering.
Very hard concepts I know
whAt iS mL? Aiii?
so how are you now claiming "it can take a while to refine a generic model to a fixed hardware optimization" when tmlDan was literally telling you that it's 99% about implementation and not just hardware support and you were refuting that?
Requiem runs on the Old CNN model not the transformer model 'you moron'. you were claiming switch can run transformer model. Using this old CNN it upscales from 540p to 1080p. Image quality is worse than base PS5 let alone PS5 Pro which you were lambasting in that thread about its low res. The things you were saying in that thread were just embarrassing if anybody takes the time to read it. Not only were you wrong about it having the new model but a lot of game implementations even regressed to "tiny DLSS" and worse image quality due to the ms cost.
Was the PS5 Pro life over when you were shitting on FSR/PSSR? Could you claim PS life isn't over so anybody who claimed Pro has Path Tracing is right? No here you seem to understand that it is 99% about implementation.
I don't give a shit what James has said somewhere else about something else, or his ban, stop deflecting. That has nothing to do with the logical and turns out correct things I was telling you.
tmlDan
isn't banned so you can still tell him you were dead wrong and he was 100% right after asking him to bookmark your ridiculous thread.
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Buggy Loop
Gold Member
You're spewing nonsense as if the console is at the end of life
DLSS transformer lower than quality preset outdoes CNN quality models, thus you can gain better performance for lower settings while retaining better visual quality.
DLSS transformer performance / ultra performance will look much better than CNN's equivalent and even though there is a performance costs quality for quality, the jump in visuals are such that you actually gain performances, even in the low end Turing and laptop 3050 / 2050 (ampere).
This was even tested downclocked to 600 MHz but Famiboards being the fucking zealots that they removed screenshots of it because it was tested in Cyberpunk 2077 which is a banned game over there. Anyone with a 3050 laptop can downclock it and test it.
DLSS 4 basically saved Turing RTX 2060 from becoming e-waste. This is known. I know you typically don't see the world outside of PS's but this is widely known since the release.
The James Sawyer Ford that was guessing it took the STATE OF THE ART $2000 GPU to use transformer model?
Yes, really stupid. How did that age?
All reports from the initial PR and communications from Nvidia for DLSS 4 transformer model said that it had lower latency
There was no other information of the contrary back then. Now microbenched to be ~0.5-1ms more latency than CNN model. Who gives a fuck? You think that's what's stopping Switch 2 from having it? ~2-5% penalty in the likes of 40 fps vs 42 fps on Ampere 3060?
For all we know, T239 uses Orin AGX's double TOPs, not like anyway transformer model has shown that its a TOPs bottleneck anyway. It runs on literally everything.
Sorry, are you even in a position to talk about waiting on upscalers with how fucking long it took for PSSR to even be viable over the pixel soup FSR? Shush
If you want to take a bet that in all of Switch 2's lifecycle it won't see an improves DLSS based on transformer model, I welcome you to take it.
This is from the same peoples that took DF's 2050 laptop demo as proof that Switch 2 will never use DLSS
How's that going so far?
"Lot of titles couldn't even run regular "full fledged" CNN due to framerate targets" - Three
As one of the best current gen visual game in a while launched day 1 on Switch 2 with full CNN model and aims 60 fps
And why not? Are you a time traveler from 2031 coming to tell us that in all its lifetime, not a single developer used transformer model or that Nvidia didn't improve the upscalers like it's been the case since the inception of DLSS?
You're in no fucking position to be that confident lol
Let's see your marvelous prediction on CNN model
ultra performance (that's 360p→1080p, not 540p to 1080p) and 30 fps only.
What does that have to do with upscaling technology? Plenty of times I said in the threads about this topic that I'm talking about upscaler quality, not overall resolution capabilities of a system that can fit a dozen switch 2 devices in its casing
You can take the ban bet that in all its lifetime Switch 2 won't see a transformer model
RE requiem full DLSS and 60 fps target kind of make your posts embarrassing. You're in meltdown mode still like subzero?
I'm sorry, are you trying to protect pixel soup FSR here? You who protected everything sony even when PSSR had so many problems that devs made toggles to remove it?
I never said it was the end of improvements of it, did I ? I critiqued exactly what was on offer
All this to protect the prospects that PS5 Pro can do path tracing. Keeping James' memories alive I see.
SURE IT CAN
We're not even in the same fucking performance universe where DLSS CNN vs Transformer costs is anywhere close to RT → PT
"To sum it up, while the Transformer model for Super Resolution runs at very minor performance cost of a 5% on an RTX 3060" without mentioning you can drop down a preset and still look better than equivalent CNN model. And not on a STATE OF THE ART $2000 GPU like your buddy was saying
vs
Literally kneecapping >~50% of performances drop on a 5090 without accounting for "AMD factor with shit PT performances on RDNA 3" for RT → PT, sure, PS5 Pro an do path tracing
Yes, its 99% about implementation, you got it, apples to apples
I don't give a shit what James has said somewhere else about something else, or his ban, stop deflecting. That has nothing to do with the logical and turns out correct things I was telling you.
"The new transformer model architecture will provide years of headroom to deliver continuous image quality improvements, as we have done with the CNN architecture for the past 6 years."
welp I guess Switch 2 will never get it or improve in the coming years
"Stop the count!" - The meme that represents you guys
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Dirk Benedict
Gold Member
No sweat on a 5090 without FG. With FG I feel like I could listen to a FLAAC of Rush 2112 and stream, with PT on maxed settings. I could probably do it without FG.
You're spewing nonsense as if the console is at the end of life
DLSS transformer lower than quality preset outdoes CNN quality models, thus you can gain better performance for lower settings while retaining better visual quality.
DLSS transformer performance / ultra performance will look much better than CNN's equivalent and even though there is a performance costs quality for quality, the jump in visuals are such that you actually gain performances, even in the low end Turing and laptop 3050 / 2050 (ampere).
This was even tested downclocked to 600 MHz but Famiboards being the fucking zealots that they removed screenshots of it because it was tested in Cyberpunk 2077 which is a banned game over there. Anyone with a 3050 laptop can downclock it and test it.
DLSS 4 basically saved Turing RTX 2060 from becoming e-waste. This is known. I know you typically don't see the world outside of PS's but this is widely known since the release.
The James Sawyer Ford that was guessing it took the STATE OF THE ART $2000 GPU to use transformer model?
Yes, really stupid. How did that age?
All reports from the initial PR and communications from Nvidia for DLSS 4 transformer model said that it had lower latency
Now microbenched to be ~0.5-1ms more latency than CNN model. Who gives a fuck? You think that's what's stopping Switch 2 from having it? ~2-5% penalty in the likes of 40 fps vs 42 fps on Ampere 3060?
For all we know, T239 uses Orin AGX's double TOPs, not like anyway transformer model has shown that its a TOPs bottleneck anyway. It runs on literally everything.
Sorry, are you even in a position to talk about waiting on upscalers with how fucking long it took for PSSR to even be viable over the pixel soup FSR? Shush
If you want to take a bet that in all of Switch 2's lifecycle it won't see an improves DLSS based on transformer model, I welcome you to take it.
This is from the same peoples that took DF's 2050 laptop demo as proof that Switch 2 will never use DLSS
How's that going so far?
"Lot of titles couldn't even run regular "full fledged" CNN due to framerate targets" - Three
As one of the best current gen visual game in a while launched day 1 on Switch 2 with full CNN model and aims 60 fps
And why not? Are you a time traveler from 2031 coming to tell us that in all its lifetime, not a single developer used transformer model or that Nvidia didn't improve the upscalers like it's been the case since the inception of DLSS?
You're in no fucking position to be that confident lol
Let's see your marvelous prediction on CNN model
ultra performance (that's 360p→1080p, not 540p to 1080p) and 30 fps only.
You mad. Not even going to reply to somebody who will not accept anything and would argue endlessly about irrelevant things but I will point out that I did not mention a 1080p result at all in my prediction. My prediction was for a higher resolution not 1080p. And since you mentioned 360p guess what the switch 2 version of RE9 upscales from handheld? you guessed it 360p. Just stop.
Chuck Berry
Gold Member
Can we spoil it all for you now then? It's not like you'll remember in 3-4 years.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
In handheld 9W
Yup, whole argument all this time was just the handheld mode and not docked where you actually need crisper visuals for big TVs
Yes, you better not reply.
You can go back to your perfect sweet spot PSVR 2
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Possibly, but we have no code path for AMD or Sony and even if it was possible given the performance metrics, I don't see Sony or any dev offering a 720p upscaled to 1080p mode just to show they can do path tracing.
The hardware might be there, but the software most certainly isn't.
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Yes just like the PSVR2 discussion you suck at technical knowledge. Both the handheld and docked mode upscale to 1080p in requiem. I never mentioned any resolution in my post/prediction, certainly not 1080p. Instead of aiming for a higher docked res like 1440p they went with a higher internal res, this doesn't refute what I said at all. "implementations" eh. Your dumb gifs don't help your point, they just show how mad you're feeling.In handheld 9W
Yup, whole argument all this time was just the handheld mode and not docked where you actually need crisper visuals for big TVs
Yes, you better not reply.
You can go back to your perfect sweet spot PSVR 2
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Moondoggy
Member
It's possible sure, but at a certain point you're having to compromise too many other aspects of the visuals just to get path tracing working, they probably just determined it wasn't worth it to make the game look ugly just to get path tracing running.
no the regular ray tracing is running from benchmarks at 60fps on 5090, ps5 pro regular ray tracing is also running at 60 fps. path tracing runs 30 fps so there is no reason why ps5 pro with some cutbacks would not do the same if regular ray tracing has same benchmarks on ps5 pro
Regular RT is nowhere near as demanding as Path Tracing...
now think of it at 30fps ,its achievable on pro
Bojji
Gold Member
But that was 4k native benchmark, Pro runs this game in ~1080p.
And you are missing the massive difference in Path Tracing performance between Nvidia and AMD GPUs.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Yeah, not how it works. This assumes the Pro and 5090 have the same RT performance pound for pound. They don't. The 5090 losing 50% of its performance doesn't mean the Pro would lose only that. It would lose A LOT more.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
I needed frame gen for Indie Jones path tracing. And this was 9800x3D +5080.Don't do this to yourself. You are setting yourself up for disappointment and tears.
A PS5 Pro is no 4000€ High End gaming pc and even these machines struggle with path tracing.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
Wasn't RE4 remake money hatted by AMD?