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[Enjay]

There is a lot of serious debating with fake online personas that are bitter that people are avoiding the wageslave, non-managerial life that have made them miserable in this thread.

 

[Hatemachine]

There is a lot of serious debating with fake online personas that are bitter that people are avoiding the wageslave, non-managerial life that have made them miserable in this thread.

Because those people are sitting on their asses getting paid with the "fake online personas"s tax money and also I can't get my Baja Blast for lunch. Double whammy.

 

[West Texas CEO]

Because those people are sitting on their asses getting paid with the "fake online personas"s tax money and also I can't get my Baja Blast for lunch. Double whammy.

 

[DeafTourette]

This is relevant to this thread topic..

 

[Enjay]

Because those people are sitting on their asses getting paid with the "fake online personas"s tax money and also I can't get my Baja Blast for lunch. Double whammy.

Well the hatermachine name checks out.

 

[CloudNull]

Welcome to the future.

 

[nush]

 

[Cravis]

 

[Virt McPolygon]

Politics keeps seeping into OT discussions, doesn't it? Complete with the scared boomer Facebook feed content like youtube "news" sources, tabloids, and clickbait garbage.

 

[QSD]

Welcome to the future.

When corporations start preferring robots over people for low skill jobs that's just going to prove those were really jobs for robots, not people, all along

 

[StreetsofBeige]

When corporations start preferring robots over people for low skill jobs that's just going to prove those were really jobs for robots, not people, all along

I've seen videos like this before with robots using suction cups to grab boxes. I'm surprised it works. I'm no physics major but cardboard boxes are still flimsy and you;d think getting suction on it wouldn't work like doing it on smooth plastic or metal casing. Also, I wonder what the weight limit is for the suction thing to work.

 

[QSD]

I've seen videos like this before with robots using suction cups to grab boxes. I'm surprised it works. I'm no physics major but cardboard boxes are still flimsy and you;d think getting suction on it wouldn't work like doing it on smooth plastic or metal casing. Also, I wonder what the weight limit is for the suction thing to work.

It could work if there's a system that 'vacuums up' the air in suction cup when it needs to 'grab'. (the same way you can 'grab' stuff with a vacuum cleaner hose) There's definitely going to be weight limit though

I do wonder if we'll ever get to a point where robots will be cheap enough to build that they can replace people at scale. I mean there's a significant slew of resources that goes in, chips and batteries etc, that are currently already skyrocketing in price, right? I do wonder if they'll ever go down again in price with the demand just increasing exponentially

 

[StreetsofBeige]

It could work if there's a system that 'vacuums up' the air in suction cup when it needs to 'grab'. (the same way you can 'grab' stuff with a vacuum cleaner hose) There's definitely going to be weight limit though

I do wonder if we'll ever get to a point where robots will be cheap enough to build that they can replace people at scale. I mean there's a significant slew of resources that goes in, chips and batteries etc, that are currently already skyrocketing in price, right? I do wonder if they'll ever go down again in price with the demand just increasing exponentially

I can see it being done for Amazon kinds of places where they are huge and they've done enough planning to make it work.

But for typical warehouses, I dont see this working at all.

In order for this to work, warehouses have to be customized to do whatever the robot needs to do (in that video it requires special racks they ride to grab stuff). Most warehouses are just endless heavy duty steel racks.

Also, this type of service is best used if the company sells whole cases. If a place (like a wholesaler) breaks open cases so that people can buy 1 unit, you'd need a way to separate whole case orders for robots and nitpicky orders for a mom and pop shop who wants to buy 3 units and not a case of 24. I've never seen a video where a robot can open and pick individual units from a cardboard box.

 

[QSD]

I can see it being done for Amazon kinds of places where they are huge and they've done enough planning to make it work.

But for typical warehouses, I dont see this working at all.

In order for this to work, warehouses have to be customized to do whatever the robot needs to do (in that video it requires special racks they ride to grab stuff). Most warehouses are just endless heavy duty steel racks.

Also, this type of service is best used if the company sells whole cases. If a place (like a wholesaler) breaks open cases so that people can buy 1 unit, you'd need a way to separate whole case orders for robots and nitpicky orders for a mom and pop shop who wants to buy 3 units and not a case of 24. I've never seen a video where a robot can open and pick individual units from a cardboard box.

Yeah, you'd basically have to design the warehouse ground-up with these robots in mind. The advantage is that in this case the robots don't really need any kind of on board AI or autonomy, very little sensors too, as you could just drive them centrally from some CPU ('the mastermind'). But like you say, the robot than can perform complex operations like opening a box and separating out the units for delivery and storage has yet to be built. More likely manufacturers will start packing their stuff in a standardized way at the behest of large distributors.

edit: I suppose you could get these order picker robots from the video to deliver the box to a conveyor belt where there's a number of purpose built robot arms that unpack .You could provide the robot arm with some schematic representation of the contents of the box so it knows the size of the individual units and where to grab without needing complex AI

 

[The Pleasure]

I can see it being done for Amazon kinds of places where they are huge and they've done enough planning to make it work.

But for typical warehouses, I dont see this working at all.

In order for this to work, warehouses have to be customized to do whatever the robot needs to do (in that video it requires special racks they ride to grab stuff). Most warehouses are just endless heavy duty steel racks.

Also, this type of service is best used if the company sells whole cases. If a place (like a wholesaler) breaks open cases so that people can buy 1 unit, you'd need a way to separate whole case orders for robots and nitpicky orders for a mom and pop shop who wants to buy 3 units and not a case of 24. I've never seen a video where a robot can open and pick individual units from a cardboard box.

I can see it working wonderfully for amazon. Suction cups hold dildos incredibly well.

 

[99Luffy]

Huh, the working class gets some leverage and all of a sudden capitalism becomes a problem.

This lol. In their minds capitalism is a one way street where labor becomes free, well I guess it could be when you outsource it to illegals.. but then they'll complain about that too.

 

[RPS37]

Returning to my favorite thread as droves continue to quit my job.

Full-time minimum wage workers can't afford rent anywhere in the US, according to a new report

People working minimum wage jobs full-time cannot afford a two-bedroom apartment in any state in the U.S. without spending more than 30% of their income.

www.cnbc.com

 

[DeafTourette]

 

[West Texas CEO]

damn, that's too many ugly bitches for one video.

Interesting stuff, though. I wonder if the service industry will ever be the same, especially now that younger generations are figuring out new ways to monetize their passions in life.

 

[GymWolf]

It's happening here is sicily as well, lazy people get the reddito di cittadinanza (basically people without a work get money every month while IN THEORY they are searching for a new job) so they get paid to do jack shit, good luck on finding someone who want to break his ass 10 hours a day for a similar amount of money.

We honest workers are basically paying for lazy people, i hate this shit and italy doesn't have enough money to waste on this fucking bullcrap of a program...

 

[West Texas CEO]

It's happening here is sicily as well, lazy people get the reddito di cittadinanza (basically people without a work get money every month while IN THEORY they are searching for a new job) so they get paid to do jack shit, good luck on finding someone who want to break his ass 10 hours a day for a similar amount of money.

We honest workers are basically paying for lazy people, i hate this shit and italy doesn't have enough money to waste on this fucking bullcrap of a program...

 

[DeafTourette]

It's happening here is sicily as well, lazy people get the reddito di cittadinanza (basically people without a work get money every month while IN THEORY they are searching for a new job) so they get paid to do jack shit, good luck on finding someone who want to break his ass 10 hours a day for a similar amount of money.

We honest workers are basically paying for lazy people, i hate this shit and italy doesn't have enough money to waste on this fucking bullcrap of a program...

So good working conditions, living wage, benefits that lure and KEEP workers at jobs shouldn't be a thing? They're all lazy if they want such and won't work for less? Should they endure mistreatment just to have a job? You sound like you want a slave labor force.

I work a blue collar job... 9-11 hours a day... Been here for 5 years... Only RECENTLY has the pay gone up. I was about to quit before then even though I love the people there. And I'm still looking for a better paying job. I have no life and it's making going to school almost impossible! If I didn't, at 46, have basically a roommate (had to move in with family after losing my apt due to pay shortage), I'd be homeless on the street. Even with the pay increase, I can't afford a new apt on my pay alone. I just don't make enough ... Not even for an $850/mo one bedroom apartment (you have to make 3 times the rent).

 

[Hulk_Smash]

So good working conditions, living wage, benefits that lure and KEEP workers at jobs shouldn't be a thing? They're all lazy if they want such and won't work for less? Should they endure mistreatment just to have a job? You sound like you want a slave labor force.

I work a blue collar job... 9-11 hours a day... Been here for 5 years... Only RECENTLY has the pay gone up. I was about to quit before then even though I love the people there. And I'm still looking for a better paying job. I have no life and it's making going to school almost impossible! If I didn't, at 46, have basically a roommate (had to move in with family after losing my apt due to pay shortage), I'd be homeless on the street. Even with the pay increase, I can't afford a new apt on my pay alone. I just don't make enough ... Not even for an $850/mo one bedroom apartment (you have to make 3 times the rent).

“Living wage”. I read or hear that phrase I know exactly what level of economic knowledge you have.

It is not the moral obligation of any employer to give you or anyone else enough wages based on what you think is enough to live on. They are not your mommy trying to help you create a personal budget. It would be a nightmare to try and figure out what each employee needs based on their personal situation.

What you are doing- “looking for a better paying job.” Is exactly what you should be doing. That’s the right way to negotiate a better living for yourself. If they don’t want to pay what you think your labor is worth, find someone who will (or reevaluate what you think your labor is worth because it could be artificially inflated).

Anyway, these extended unemployment benefits that have never existed until covid came along and allowed every basement dweller to live out their fantasy of staying in their basement, are creating a false sense of competition in the work force. The government can just print and borrow money or raise taxes to keep people at home. It is a fucked up system that no employer should be expected to compete against.

They should “lure” people away with better salary packages from other companies- companies that have to work for the capital they raise by selling a good or service to keep their workers paid/employed. The government doesn’t have to do shit to raise capital to keep people at home.

But, hey, if you like being denied shipments of products or long ass lines at your favorite restaurant due to a shortage of basement dwellers, I guess there’s no convincing you otherwise.

 

[QSD]

Yeah, I'm more on DeafTourette 's side on this issue. Nobody is owed a steady supply of cheap labor/basement dwellers they can boss around. The hospitality industry is one of the most undervalued in terms of labour. It's hard work, often psychologically draining (putting up with abuse by customers) and physically demanding too. I'm glad the pandemic has given rise to a situation where hospitality workers have the leverage to stand up for themselves.

 

[DeafTourette]

“Living wage”. I read or hear that phrase I know exactly what level of economic knowledge you have.

It is not the moral obligation of any employer to give you or anyone else enough wages based on what you think is enough to live on. They are not your mommy trying to help you create a personal budget. It would be a nightmare to try and figure out what each employee needs based on their personal situation.

What you are doing- “looking for a better paying job.” Is exactly what you should be doing. That’s the right way to negotiate a better living for yourself. If they don’t want to pay what you think your labor is worth, find someone who will (or reevaluate what you think your labor is worth because it could be artificially inflated).

Anyway, these extended unemployment benefits that have never existed until covid came along and allowed every basement dweller to live out their fantasy of staying in their basement, are creating a false sense of competition in the work force. The government can just print and borrow money or raise taxes to keep people at home. It is a fucked up system that no employer should be expected to compete against.

They should “lure” people away with better salary packages from other companies- companies that have to work for the capital they raise by selling a good or service to keep their workers paid/employed. The government doesn’t have to do shit to raise capital to keep people at home.

But, hey, if you like being denied shipments of products or long ass lines at your favorite restaurant due to a shortage of basement dwellers, I guess there’s no convincing you otherwise.

You realize that minimum wage was INTENDED to be a living wage.

Per the Fair Labor Standards Act and President Franklin Delano Roosevelt:

President Franklin D. Roosevelt noted that “no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.”

“By ‘business’ I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level — I mean the wages of decent living,” he stated.

A federal minimum wage wouldn’t be permanently mandated until 1938 under the Fair Labor Standards Act, the same bill which prohibited child labor and limited the workweek to 44 hours. Even then, the idea was the same: ensure that businesses have to a) pay people for the work that they do, and b) that the payment is at least enough to live on.

“Without question,” explained FDR, “[the minimum wage] starts us toward a better standard of living and increases purchasing power to buy the products of farm and factory.”

So when I say living wage, I mean exactly that. Enough to live on (housing, food, transportation). I keep getting this pushback and assumptions about what I mean because I'm not a conservative or think businesses should be catered to.

And I don't agree with just paying people to stay home. Some people can't work due to health reasons. We have systems in place for them already. They CAN be improved but that's not what this thread is about. Paying people to NOT work isn't sustainable nor should it be. It's recipe for disaster.

If federal minimum wage had kept in step with inflation, which it used to be tied to, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

If I skipped over any of your points, I apologize. I'm trying to get to work AND study.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

You realize that minimum wage was INTENDED to be a living wage.

Per the Fair Labor Standards Act and President Franklin Delano Roosevelt:


So when I say living wage, I mean exactly that. Enough to live on (housing, food, transportation). I keep getting this pushback and assumptions about what I mean because I'm not a conservative or think businesses should be catered to.

And I don't agree with just paying people to stay home. Some people can't work due to health reasons. We have systems in place for them already. They CAN be improved but that's not what this thread is about. Paying people to NOT work isn't sustainable nor should it be. It's recipe for disaster.

If federal minimum wage had kept in step with inflation, which it used to be tied to, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

If I skipped over any of your points, I apologize. I'm trying to get to work AND study.

Hey man, you do what you gotta do. There’s nothing like working for what you want in life. It’s what makes it worth living.

As for minimum wage, I’m against that, too. LOL. But I don’t want to derail the thread. If there’s already systems in place, then end the unnecessary unemployment benefits already. They are warping the economy and causing industries to crash which means people will lose jobs.

 

[GymWolf]

So good working conditions, living wage, benefits that lure and KEEP workers at jobs shouldn't be a thing? They're all lazy if they want such and won't work for less? Should they endure mistreatment just to have a job? You sound like you want a slave labor force.

I work a blue collar job... 9-11 hours a day... Been here for 5 years... Only RECENTLY has the pay gone up. I was about to quit before then even though I love the people there. And I'm still looking for a better paying job. I have no life and it's making going to school almost impossible! If I didn't, at 46, have basically a roommate (had to move in with family after losing my apt due to pay shortage), I'd be homeless on the street. Even with the pay increase, I can't afford a new apt on my pay alone. I just don't make enough ... Not even for an $850/mo one bedroom apartment (you have to make 3 times the rent).

Dude you dont know how sicilian\italian people think, this shit only make lazy people even more lazy.

The people who get this money in theory needs to be everyday in some specific place actively searching for work, but nobody does that because nobody control these people, so you have milions of people getting paid to do jack shit (or while working illegaly and getting even more non-taxed money) while i work to maintain their lazy asses.

Maybe it's because i started working at 11 and i can't stand lazy people but this shit for me is bananas, i own a company and i still work in worst conditions than any restaurant guy because guess what, this is what the fucking job requires and we are not all lucky to chose our dream job and getting payed like cristiano ronaldo, i break my ass for like 1100-1200 euros a month ffs.

Also, who the hell even talked about bad working conditions?! Since when are restaurants or hotels the worst jobs possible?
Sure some bosses are human turds and treat their employes like shit, but isn't the same with literally every job where you work under someone?!

People in here just want money to do jack shit, sorry if i have zero pity for this people when i was breaking my fucking leg at when i was 12 years old while working on a warehouse...

 

[Cravis]

I think living wage has lot its meaning in today’s world. It means different things to different people. Minimum wage ie living wage should mean minimum to have a roof over to head, food on the table, and transportation. In our consumer society this all competes with the wants and we have created a generation of “wants come first.” That new iPhone, PS5, that all comes before their rent. Then they complain they don’t make enough money to pay rent.

Still I agree that minimum wage is too low. $7.25/hour comes to a little over $1200 and that’s IF you get 40 hours. A lot of these minimum wage jobs don’t want to have to pay extra for healthcare so they cap the hours just under to not be required by law to do that. Thus forcing your minimum wage earner to work multiple jobs.

The system is screwed up. No side can take the full blame but they all contribute to the problem.

 

[zorg1000]

It's happening here is sicily as well, lazy people get the reddito di cittadinanza (basically people without a work get money every month while IN THEORY they are searching for a new job) so they get paid to do jack shit, good luck on finding someone who want to break his ass 10 hours a day for a similar amount of money.

We honest workers are basically paying for lazy people, i hate this shit and italy doesn't have enough money to waste on this fucking bullcrap of a program...

Why should people have to break their asses 10 hours a day to get by? Anybody working 40 hours or more a week should be getting paid enough to afford rent, utilities and food. If you can't afford to pay your workers a decent wage than you can't afford to be in business.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Dine in is finally open in my area starting today!

As for you guys talking minimum wage or living wage, I don't know or follow the historic roots of the value vs. cost of living 50 years ago compared to now.

Regardless, it makes no difference because every person's spending habits and location they live in is different than one another. Someone living in SF or Manhatten will probably need $25/hr to keep afloat, while someone living in rural Arkansas can probably get by on $15/hr.

People who protest don't even have a straight answer. You got people saying they (single person) cant get by on $12/hr and you got people saying they want enough wages to support a family.

Variables that nobody seem to have a straight answer for how much "minimum" or "living" wage should be provided based on:

- Location (is it based on where they work or where they live? Is it based on downtown, suburbs or living in farm country 2 hours away?)
- Single person no kids? Married no kids? Married with kids? How many kids?
- What are the basics that should be covered? Rent? Ok, how big of a place? Utilities? Ok, which ones? Food and chilling out? How much? Should a wage cover getting a car? If so, how good of a car? Or just cover bus tickets?

If two people at dead end jobs at the same company get boosted wages, one guy is single and the other guy has a family of 4 to support, does the family guy get a bigger boost because he has more costs?

Nobody knows.

The only way a living wage can be achieved is if everyone gets paid a high enough wage to cover a big family with all the fixings. That way the wage is large enough to cover every combination..... even a family of 5 in San Fran.

 

[Pol Pot]

I've seen foul balls fly over heads slower than the point of absolutely anything flies over Streets of Bougie Mediocrity.

 

[GymWolf]

Why should people have to break their asses 10 hours a day to get by? Anybody working 40 hours or more a week should be getting paid enough to afford rent, utilities and food. If you can't afford to pay your workers a decent wage than you can't afford to be in business.

10 hours was an example, i don't really now how turns work inside restaurants.

 

[Peggies]

In my country we have the same problem. I think it's a combination of too low wages and too high social security payments.

We have one of the best social security systems in the world and I'm proud and happy to live in such a place but it was actually built to help people in need and not as a monthly payment to people who think working as a waiter or any other blue collar place is unworthy.

Some of you talk as if they had to work in a coal mine or the temple of doom.

But yes, I really think wages are too low in that and many other sectors.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

Why should people have to break their asses 10 hours a day to get by? Anybody working 40 hours or more a week should be getting paid enough to afford rent, utilities and food. If you can't afford to pay your workers a decent wage than you can't afford to be in business.

Why should any employer play mommy to these people? They don’t owe them anything more than what they both agreed upon when that worker vonluntarily took the job- knowing he’d make x,y, and z. If he can’t pay for his necessities, it’s up to him to figure it out. Not the employer.

 

[nush]

Why should any employer play mommy to these people? They don’t owe them anything more than what they both agreed upon when that worker vonluntarily took the job- knowing he’d make x,y, and z. If he can’t pay for his necessities, it’s up to him to figure it out. Not the employer.

Because the choice is no money or not enough money. Good luck trying to live without getting deep into the debt trap in the hope of getting a job that pays you enough to live.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

Dine in is finally open in my area starting today!

As for you guys talking minimum wage or living wage, I don't know or follow the historic roots of the value vs. cost of living 50 years ago compared to now.

Regardless, it makes no difference because every person's spending habits and location they live in is different than one another. Someone living in SF or Manhatten will probably need $25/hr to keep afloat, while someone living in rural Arkansas can probably get by on $15/hr.

People who protest don't even have a straight answer. You got people saying they (single person) cant get by on $12/hr and you got people saying they want enough wages to support a family.

Variables that nobody seem to have a straight answer for how much "minimum" or "living" wage should be provided based on:

- Location (is it based on where they work or where they live? Is it based on downtown, suburbs or living in farm country 2 hours away?)
- Single person no kids? Married no kids? Married with kids? How many kids?
- What are the basics that should be covered? Rent? Ok, how big of a place? Utilities? Ok, which ones? Food and chilling out? How much? Should a wage cover getting a car? If so, how good of a car? Or just cover bus tickets?

If two people at dead end jobs at the same company get boosted wages, one guy is single and the other guy has a family of 4 to support, does the family guy get a bigger boost because he has more costs?

Nobody knows.

The only way a living wage can be achieved is if everyone gets paid a high enough wage to cover a big family with all the fixings. That way the wage is large enough to cover every combination..... even a family of 5 in San Fran.

Totally agree. I don’t want my employer or the worse, the state, to know and have to figure out for me. They will always do a far worse job than I will.

Because the choice is no money or not enough money. Good luck trying to live without getting deep into the debt trap in the hope of getting a job that pays you enough to live.

That is not my employer’s responsibility to figure out. He didn’t force me to take the job. He doesn’t know my life story nor should he. Unless he lied to me and change the terms that we agreed upon unnecessarily, then his responsibility stops at what he and I agreed my labor is worth.

The rest is my responsibility as an individual to figure out on my own.

 

[nush]

Totally agree. I don’t want my employer or the worse, the state, to know and have to figure out for me. They will always do a far worse job than I will.

That is not my employer’s responsibility to figure out. He didn’t force me to take the job. He doesn’t know my life story more should he. Unless he lied to me and change the terms that we agreed upon unnecessarily, then his responsibility stops at what he and I agreed my labor is worth.

The rest is my responsibility as an individual to figure out on my own.

Let me make my point clearer for you. People take low paying jobs often because they have to, not because they want to. Once you are through the door you are in a better position to try and improve your salary.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

Let me make my point clearer for you. People take low paying jobs often because they have to, not because they want to. Once you are through the door you are in a better position to try and improve your salary.

Let me make mine clear: Nobody is forced to do anything in a free society. That includes entry level low paying jobs. Even among those jobs, there is quite a bit of variety to choose from. From location, to different employers in the same industry, to different industries.

Then you scrimp and save. You make sacrifices. You put off indulgences. You find ways to get smart about what little money you have either by finding ways to save money or by spending it on just the things that will improve your lot in life. Those are all things that you should be doing, not your employer.

That’s the way millions of people have done it. That’s the way my parents did it. That’s the way I did it.

I agree with you on the last part though. Sometimes you take a job just to have it long enough to find a better one. That’s totally fine to do at any level.

 

[zorg1000]

Dine in is finally open in my area starting today!

As for you guys talking minimum wage or living wage, I don't know or follow the historic roots of the value vs. cost of living 50 years ago compared to now.

Regardless, it makes no difference because every person's spending habits and location they live in is different than one another. Someone living in SF or Manhatten will probably need $25/hr to keep afloat, while someone living in rural Arkansas can probably get by on $15/hr.

People who protest don't even have a straight answer. You got people saying they (single person) cant get by on $12/hr and you got people saying they want enough wages to support a family.

Variables that nobody seem to have a straight answer for how much "minimum" or "living" wage should be provided based on:

- Location (is it based on where they work or where they live?)
- Single person no kids? Married no kids? Married with kids? How many kids?
- What are the basics that should be covered? Rent? Ok, how big of a place? Utilities? Ok, which ones? Food and chilling out? How much? Should a wage cover getting a car? If so, how good of a car? Or just cover bus tickets?

If two people at dead end jobs at the same company get boosted wages, one guy is single and the other guy has a family of 4 to support, does the family guy get a bigger boost because he has more costs?

Nobody knows.

The only way a living wage can be achieved is if everyone gets paid a high enough wage to cover a big family with all the fixings. That way the wage is large enough to cover every combination..... even a family of 5 in San Fran.

I'm pretty sure there is a relatively consistent meaning of living wage. I have never seen anyone argue that a minimum wage earner should be able to own a large home, with a stay at home spouse, raise multiple children, own 2 brand new cars, be able to eat out at nice restaurants regularly and own the latest & greatest gadgets.

There might be the occasional outlier but the majority of people who say minimum wage should be a living wage probably mean something like a single person being able to cover rent+utilities for a 1 bedroom apartment, groceries from the local supermarket, and transportation (whether that be public transit or a reliable used car) and there really isn't any place in the US where that is possible.

I'll use my area as an example. Minimum wage is $11 in my state so at 40hr/week that's $1760/month. After taxes (7.65% medicare/social security, 4.95% state, 10% federal) you're looking at about $1360.

Rent for a 1 bedroom apartment is about $800, so let's say ~$1000 when you add in utilities. $50/week on groceries bumbs it up to $1200. Car insurance+fuel or public transit easily eats up the last $160.

In this scenario, the person has literally $0 in disposable income.

 

[QSD]

Dude you dont know how sicilian\italian people think, this shit only make lazy people even more lazy.

The people who get this money in theory needs to be everyday in some specific place actively searching for work, but nobody does that because nobody control these people, so you have milions of people getting paid to do jack shit (or while working illegaly and getting even more non-taxed money) while i work to maintain their lazy asses.

Maybe it's because i started working at 11 and i can't stand lazy people but this shit for me is bananas, i own a company and i still work in worst conditions than any restaurant guy because guess what, this is what the fucking job requires and we are not all lucky to chose our dream job and getting payed like cristiano ronaldo, i break my ass for like 1100-1200 euros a month ffs.

Also, who the hell even talked about bad working conditions?! Since when are restaurants or hotels the worst jobs possible?
Sure some bosses are human turds and treat their employes like shit, but isn't the same with literally every job where you work under someone?!

People in here just want money to do jack shit, sorry if i have zero pity for this people when i was breaking my fucking leg at when i was 12 years old while working on a warehouse...

What kind of company do you have? What are your working conditions?

I'm sorry to hear you had to start working at 11, that sounds like a rough time.

Still I wanna push back against the idea that most people just want money to sit on their asses. Even if I was very rich all of the sudden and never had to work again, I would still go to work 3-4 days a week because I actually want feel 'useful' and carry some kind of responsibility. I'm pretty sure that most people would in the end choose life where they are appreciated and respected rather than being 'dead weight'

 

[GymWolf]

What kind of company do you have? What are your working conditions?

I'm sorry to hear you had to start working at 11, that sounds like a rough time.

Still I wanna push back against the idea that most people just want money to sit on their asses. Even if I was very rich all of the sudden and never had to work again, I would still go to work 3-4 days a week because I actually want feel 'useful' and carry some kind of responsibility. I'm pretty sure that most people would in the end choose life where they are appreciated and respected rather than being 'dead weight'

I sell and repair professional culinary equipment, from a fork to a 2 door's fridge but we do a lot of stuff in between.
But i'm the main warehouse man so lifting heavy weights and cleaning used gross stuff (to re-sell) are some of my mansions.


I started working at that age because i wanted to earn my money, i was a pretty responsible child for that age

 

[nush]

repair professional culinary equipment, from a fork

Now I know who to go to so I can get my spoon fixed.

 

[GymWolf]

Now I know who to go to so I can get my spoon fixed.

I hope that spoon is just not a nice way to call your dick

We don't really fix forks, but we sell them.

We mostly fix electronic machinery.

 

[QSD]

I sell and repair professional culinary equipment, from a fork to a 2 door's fridge but we do a lot of stuff in between.
But i'm the main warehouse man so lifting heavy weights and cleaning used gross stuff (to re-sell) are some of my mansions.

this wouldn't happen to be your favorite song?

 

[GymWolf]

this wouldn't happen to be your favorite song?

No, but it's a great song

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Why should any employer play mommy to these people? They don’t owe them anything more than what they both agreed upon when that worker vonluntarily took the job- knowing he’d make x,y, and z. If he can’t pay for his necessities, it’s up to him to figure it out. Not the employer.

Exactly.

So someone working as a paperboy all day should earn enough to get an apartment ad used car? Good luck deadbeats. You are overvaluing your skill set when 10 year olds have been doing it for probably 100 years.

Put it this way. At every company I've worked at, the people who do clerical/admin work all get paid around $60,000 or more. A job the involves some PC work, photocopying, some phone calling to resolve issues. No OT involved that I've ever seen since they all leave at 4:30 and not a job they are involved in big meetings. All nice people but not trailblazers in any way (personality or job function). They get paid decent money to push paperwork and ensure invoices go through. Not the kind of job that requires any college or university degree either. Somehow they can score these jobs. And companies arent screwing them over paying them $12/hr.

Also, there's lots of new grad/zero experience kids getting hired out of college too. Businesses and government hire them and give them a chance.

So if anyone out there still flipping burgers at 35 years old saying every boss, business and government are bums for not giving them a chance, well there's tons of others who some reason are given a chance.

If you are missing out, there's something wrong with you where every hiring manager is blowing past you and picking someone else for a better job.

Money is out there.

If western countries were fascist dictatorship places where people are dirt poor and even doctors make shit money, and only royalty and military leaders are millionaires then ok complain all you want. Everyone is in the same boat. But when the average wage in western counties lead to a middle income standard of living and most people do not come close to making min wage, got to look in the mirror why something is amiss, while your fam and friends down the street are making triple your wages.

Also, fighting corporations shouldnt even be the focus. It should be government. Businesses just follow the wage policy. If low end jobbers want more money, they should be protesting government to raise hourly wages so everyone gets a big boost and not just random businesses who might do it on their own.

 

[QSD]

Exactly.

So someone working as a paperboy all day should earn enough to get an apartment ad used car? Good luck deadbeats. You are overvaluing your skill set when 10 year olds have been doing it for probably 100 years.

Put it this way. At every company I've worked at, the people who do clerical/admin work all get paid around $60,000 or more. A job the involves some PC work, photocopying, some phone calling to resolve issues. No OT involved that I've ever seen since they all leave at 4:30 and not a job they are involved in big meetings. All nice people but not trailblazers in any way (personality or job function). They get paid decent money to push paperwork and ensure invoices go through. Not the kind of job that requires any college or university degree either. Somehow they can score these jobs. And companies arent screwing them over paying them $12/hr.

Also, there's lots of new grad/zero experience kids getting hired out of college too. Businesses and government hire them and give them a chance.

So if anyone out there still flipping burgers at 35 years old saying every boss, business and government are bums for not giving them a chance, well there's tons of others who some reason are given a chance.

If you are missing out, there's something wrong with you where every hiring manager is blowing past you and picking someone else for a better job.

Money is out there.

If western countries were fascist dictatorship places where people are dirt poor and even doctors make shit money, and only royalty and military leaders are millionaires then ok complain all you want. Everyone is in the same boat. But when the average wage in western counties lead to a middle income standard of living and most people do not come close to making min wage, got to look in the mirror why something is amiss, while your fam and friends down the street are making triple your wages.

Also, fighting corporations shouldnt even be the focus. It should be government. Businesses just follow the wage policy. If low end jobbers want more money, they should be protesting government to raise hourly wages so everyone gets a big boost and not just random businesses who might do it on their own.

Comrade Streets, what you've done here is basically explain why no-one should settle for being a paperboy or burger flipper. I think people may already be aware of this, hence the issue we are discussing ITT.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Comrade Streets, what you've done here is basically explain why no-one should settle for being a paperboy or burger flipper. I think people may already be aware of this, hence the issue we are discussing ITT.

Depends which people (I'm not talking strictly about GAF users, but people protesting in general about wages).

Some people criticize they want better jobs that pay more.

But some people simply want to do the same low end job, but get paid more.

Two totally different views.

 

[QSD]

Depends which people (I'm not talking strictly about GAF users, but people protesting in general about wages).

Some people criticize they want better jobs that pay more.

But some people simply want to do the same low end job, but get paid more.

Two totally different views.

Let's say a amazing spiritual revolution happens and suddenly even people of lower than average intellectual ability get all get interested in self-development, get educated or get good vocational training and there are no longer any "deadbeats". Who would flip the burgers? Who would collect the garbage? In the end, some jobs we commonly consider "low end" or even "deadbeat" jobs are actually essential. If nobody is willing to do them, society is fucked. From that standpoint I think reconsidering the wages they pay can be justified.

In the Netherlands there's an extreme shortage of (elementary school) teachers ATM. A lot of young people abandon the field because it's too stressful/demanding for the very average pay. If there's not enough teachers society grinds to a halt because kids can't go to school. By your 'same low end job = same low end pay" logic we can't raise salaries. What to do?

 

[zorg1000]

10 hours was an example, i don't really now how turns work inside restaurants.

That's beside the point, why should people have to break their ass just to get by?

Why should any employer play mommy to these people? They don’t owe them anything more than what they both agreed upon when that worker vonluntarily took the job- knowing he’d make x,y, and z. If he can’t pay for his necessities, it’s up to him to figure it out. Not the employer.

Why should employees play mommy to businesses? If an employer can't afford to pay their employees a living wage than they can't afford to be in business.