Beer Monkey
Member
We're at 21ms for some 2017 models, that's less than 1.5 frames and that's coming from like four frames a couple of years ago. It'll get better.
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Retro AV Club Thread 2: Classic Gaming Done Right!
- Thread starter Mega
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We're at 21ms for some 2017 models, that's less than 1.5 frames and that's coming from like four frames a couple of years ago. It'll get better.
bodine1231
Member
16ms is about a frame and this years OLEDs are at 21ms,it's getting close. Your preaching to the quire about your second comment.
I meant a scaler that can produce better looking scanlines. Ossc is nice, but still isn't very CRT like.
bodine1231
Member
Gotcha. Yeah if they could ever add finer level adjustments to the scanlines that would be great.
Want to thank Gryian for hooking me up with my retro white whale,the NEO GEO Giga powered AES! It's so cool to finally get one after all these years. My girlfriends grandparents in middle school were loaded and bought one when it first came out but I never got to play it for very long.
I'm slumming it in composite until my RGB cable gets here but it looks and plays great!
NormalFish
Banned
I think if you want more realistic scanlines, what you're really going to need is a more involved "crt filter", rather than the current scanline emulation. Dunno how it'll work out with a low lag device.
So, GAF seems to adore Sonic Mania. I hope this ends the whole "sonic was never good" crap that was happening for a while.
Can't wait to play it this week. Going to be kicking it in the Hamptons with my Switch by the pool, ripping through loop-de-loops, gathering rings & emeralds like its 1994.
Can't wait to play it this week. Going to be kicking it in the Hamptons with my Switch by the pool, ripping through loop-de-loops, gathering rings & emeralds like its 1994.
sixteen-bit
Member
I'm gonna have to wait until the 29th to play on PC, fml
Beer Monkey
Member
It can be done, and in milliseconds. Give it time.
A 4K display can simulate 320x240p (windowboxed with bars on the side) using 81 pixels to represent each original pixel. Shit's gonna be crazy. 81 pixels is enough to simulate different kinds of phosphor triads and the gap between the raster that creates the "scanline" effect.
Triforce141
Member
That didn't stop people saying that about Crash Bandicoot when the N. Sane Trilogy sold like hotcakes. They just changed it to "nostalgia was the only reason it sold" or "what else was there that month"
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Yeah I'm waiting on PC as well.
polyh3dron
Banned
So jelly. I want a Neo Geo AES in good shape.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I'll get Sonic Mania on the Switch. Honestly, if it was getting a DRM-free release on PC, I'd buy it there, too... but it isn't, so I won't.
socksfelloff
Member
I bought sonic mania before work and brought my switch with me.
Of course im swamped today.
Of course im swamped today.
Laevateinn
Member
Amazon hasn't shipped my Sonic Collectors edition. It says it won't arrive until Thursday but I'll be traveling to recruit some people at my old school. This sucks.
sixteen-bit
Member
It seems Amazon has been fucking up LE releases for a while now, which is a shame. Was it ever available elsewhere?
Was mega the person who had Freedom Planet set up at 240p over a PVM? Would love to see shots of Sonic Mania the same way.
Yep he was. Same with AM2R.
By the way, on a fixed pixel display in 1080p, I really think the game looks best with the CRT Soft video setting. It's not perfect, but it definitely makes the game look more authentic.
In 720p in Switch's handheld mode, I like either CRT Soft or CRT Sharp. Both look superb on that screen. I can't, however, stand the look of this game on any other setting. It just looks like a pixelated jag-fest that nothing like what games looked like back in the day.
I wish Mega weren't banned so we could get some decent comparison pictures of this game running in genuine 240p. But I may still create a thread comparing this game's scanline effects with an actual Genesis running at 240p on a few types of monitors/scalers... all with off-screen shots.
Sonic Mania isn't just a good Sonic game or nostalgia trip though. I legitimately think this game is an incredible 2D platformer and instant classic of the genre as a whole. It sort of does what Shovel Knight did regarding good/inventive level design, but honestly, this game is even more impressive. There is so much variety to the stages. The platforming feels fair and exhilarating which is how sonic should always be.
Laevateinn
Member
I'll probably end up getting another copy on the eShop because I have no self control.
socksfelloff
Member
The problem with sonic mania is its 16:9 so I don't see any point in running it on a CRT. I can pipe it through my ossc easily enough but the in game filters do a fine job.
After playing a few levels while at work I'm in love! The first thing I'm doing when I get home is downloading the sound track!
It's really weird to see "in association with sega" in a sonic game!
After playing a few levels while at work I'm in love! The first thing I'm doing when I get home is downloading the sound track!
It's really weird to see "in association with sega" in a sonic game!
Some CRTs are 16:9 though.
RadarScope1
Member
Should I get a manual or automatic Banridge SCART selector? I'm leaning manual after seeing MLiG guys say that the automatic one can feed some minimal power back to other consoles that aren't in use. Anyone had this issue before? I'd love to get the auto but I don't want to pry it open and cut whatever that is on the PCB to correct the issue. Also, I don't mind popping up to push a button and it's one less thing to plug in...
RCA finally had their PS2 RGB cable back in stock and I just ordered one. So once I get that cord and a selector then I'm pretty well set on my A/V situation after 18 months of on-and-off purchasing and upgrading stuff.
RCA finally had their PS2 RGB cable back in stock and I just ordered one. So once I get that cord and a selector then I'm pretty well set on my A/V situation after 18 months of on-and-off purchasing and upgrading stuff.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
So I read before that a lot of PS4 and XB1 games have severe lag, pushing well north of 100ms even in fighting games. I'm not sure of the exact reason for this, I know part of it is post-effects but does it affect everything on the system?
I also remember hearing that controller input and image output on PS4 have some inherent lag due to poor design.
Sonic Mania is the kind of game I'd rather play with low latency but I'm going to be getting a (sick white color) PS4 next month and uh I actually don't have that many games I want to play on it so it'd be nice to put something on there.
I also remember hearing that controller input and image output on PS4 have some inherent lag due to poor design.
Sonic Mania is the kind of game I'd rather play with low latency but I'm going to be getting a (sick white color) PS4 next month and uh I actually don't have that many games I want to play on it so it'd be nice to put something on there.
I don't know about any of that, but I do know that playing PS4 with the controller wired in is supposed to reduce lag.
I've definitely played some very responsive PS4 games. I don't think it's inherent to the hardware. 100ms is unplayable in my opinion, and that is definitely not happening in games I'm playing.
Whatever is cheaper honestly.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-tekken-7-face-off
There were people claiming the XB1 version was like significantly better because of this difference but 104ms is still piss poor. And even if you account for "3-4 frames of lag inherent to Unreal Engine" as I've heard that's still like 40-50ms of delay that is coming from... ???? Plus TV lag.
I'm not so picky about lag in most games, like I mostly play RPGs and I don't really do fighting games or shooters, but in fast scrolling platformers it's super obvious. Mis-timing a jump due to lag is not fun.
sixteen-bit
Member
Street Fighter V on PS4 had about 8 frames of input lag at launch. By season 2 it was reduced to around 6ish through patches.
On PC you can edit an .ini file to disable v-sync and that gets it down to ~4 frames, which is comparable to previous SF games.
On PC you can edit an .ini file to disable v-sync and that gets it down to ~4 frames, which is comparable to previous SF games.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
I have the auto selector and it powers itself off after what seems like 3-5 minutes of no use. I've had no problems with power back to my consoles, nor any issue with the 5th input, which was the other complaint.
But I'll have to agree with earlier advice and say take whatever one is cheaper or more readily available.
I'm a huge skeptic with regards to input lag and its ability to render a game unplayable.
In terms of Guilty Gear, if there is an inherent 100ms (about 6 frames?), on top of the 1 frame from my TV, then things like just block, blue burst instant block, Baiken red parry, and even stuff like instant air dash, reversals, or reading/blocking a standing dust from couch block would be impossible, and they aren't, even in online play with anywhere from additional 2-5 frames of input delay. If people can pull these things off consistently, Sonic Mania being unplayable from lag I wouldn't think is a realistic concern.
Kawika
Member
Has anyone tried the Raspberry Pi 3 to scart adapters. I know there was a few. Bob (retrorgb) was talking about a few of them on his podcast. I am getting pretty nostalgic for some arcade games but I really don't want to get all the jamma crap to get it working. I feel like some in this forum will dog me for this (even though i prefer playing on real consoles over emulators) I just can't justify the cost (and more importantly) and the space that arcade collecting could do.
Also @socksfelloff
Man dude, I am somewhat mad at you. You sent me down another rabbit hole. I am obsessed with getting your Trinitron (WEGA KV-(27/32)FV310). I found a couple other people that are swearing by it too.
Thank you for everyone pushing me over the edge for the switch version. I was holding off for pc so i could use sweetfx (never have used it but I should really try it for AM2R and this).
I didn't know that. Are those 6 frames on a 1ms fast refresh pc monitor or on a hdtv? If you can really get it down to 4 frames I am going to pick it up. I felt like I could never get the timing down right on PS4.
Also @socksfelloff
Man dude, I am somewhat mad at you. You sent me down another rabbit hole. I am obsessed with getting your Trinitron (WEGA KV-(27/32)FV310). I found a couple other people that are swearing by it too.
Thank you for everyone pushing me over the edge for the switch version. I was holding off for pc so i could use sweetfx (never have used it but I should really try it for AM2R and this).
I didn't know that. Are those 6 frames on a 1ms fast refresh pc monitor or on a hdtv? If you can really get it down to 4 frames I am going to pick it up. I felt like I could never get the timing down right on PS4.
sixteen-bit
Member
Oh, those numbers are before introducing any lag intrinsic to the TV/Monitor you're using.
bodine1231
Member
I use pi with vga 666 to udma scart for FBA. Works great. Not as good as the real thing but better than a wii at this point.
I ran am2r and freedom planet on PVM and Arcade Monitor. I plan on trying Sonic Mania and see if it works. Ill post pics if it does, I have 4:3 monitors though.
socksfelloff
Member
If someone on GAF isn't making you spend money we aren't doing our job! The 310 is a phenomenal TV. Did you see my blog post?
As for the RPI3 I've got that sitting as a pet project for when I get some time. I'm going to be using an hdmi-vga adapter and then converting the H and V syncs so I can play it on a crt. I feel the built in overlays/shaders do a fantastic job though it's just something I want to do for fun!
edit: A little update here re Sonic Mania. I tried using my hdmi-vga converter and then piping my switch into my OSSC. The OSSC doesnt have any scaling options for 480p other then 2x which looked terrible on my ks8000 and the scanlines @ 1080p looked terrible as well. Looks like I'll be sticking with the built in scanline filters!
sleazefrenzy
Member
Picking up a Super Everdrive for my pal SNES to explore all those wonderful imports and rarities I wouldn't otherwise be able to play (or afford). Will something like the SuperCIC mod be all I need to do to in preparation?
I'll be playing via scart through a Framemeister.
I'll be playing via scart through a Framemeister.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
Yeah the sd2snes is easier tho
sleazefrenzy
Member
The price increase isn't worth it to me personally. The CD quality music is cool but a bit gimmicky and the only extra game it supports that I'd likely play is Yoshi's Island which I have a cart for.
In what way is it easier though?
Has he tried degaussing it?
sixteen-bit
Member
Isn't Yoshi's Island a Super FX game? AFAIK the SD2SNES doesn't support those.
RoryDropkick
Member
Don't do this please. Respect people's purchases. I went the Everdrive route myself due to price issues and not needing the extra features the SD2Snes offered.
Yep, you're correct. Just booted mine up on the new firmware to re-test and it doesn't boot.
Edit: Beaten.
bodine1231
Member
Could be the degaussing coil failing. He may want to invest in a manual one. If he has a power drill and some magnets he can make a homemade one that works ok.
sleazefrenzy
Member
Sorry my mistake, I was misremembering Yoshi as it was one of the few games not supported by any flash cart that I like to play (the other big one was Super Mario RPG).
It was Mega Man X2 and X3 that the SD2SNES can play that Everdrive cannot that actually appeals to me, but those games have been collected elsewhere multiple times so I can live without them being on the cart.
It was Mega Man X2 and X3 that the SD2SNES can play that Everdrive cannot that actually appeals to me, but those games have been collected elsewhere multiple times so I can live without them being on the cart.
You will need a modded PAL console to fully enjoy imports. Automatic region patching in the SD2SNES is already worth it if you're in PAL region you'll never have to watch those annoying "this game pak..." errors again. Or flip the switch to start up some games.
I mean, if someone asks for a recommendation, I'll give my input, and based on my own experiences, the extra features of the SD2SNES are worth it - your mileage may vary
And I will ask my friend about degaussing. Have to see if his problem persists or if the "hue" lasts longer. Then we'll know something is up.
sleazefrenzy
Member
I was not aware if this, however I'm assuming the console would still need to be modded for it to be able to play those imports in 60Hz?
RoryDropkick
Member
Nono, see you are fine. You didn't do a driveby "SD2Snes is better" and run off. I'm in the US and I did my research beforehand so I was aware of the advantages/disadvantages of each.
Well yes. I'm not the expert on modding, but I used to have a modded PAL SNES. It had a chip that disabled the lockout and a 50/60 hz switch. You can't get 60hz from PAL SNES without modding.
But even still I would have to flick that switch when I wanted to play a (NTSC) game that did that region check, it would display that annoying message, and I'd have to flip the switch, start the game, and then flip back to 60hz. Super Metroid and Donkey Kong Country were like this, IIRC. All this didn't matter anymore when I got the SD2SNES, and now that I have the US model 2 (SNES Mini) it's a non-issue.
But this is why I say playing imports on a PAL SNES is quite a mess even with a flashcart. It's a great looking console but for ease of use maybe a Super Famicom or a US SNES would be easier.
socksfelloff
Member
Yooooooooooo my NESrgb kit came extremely fast. I need to go get my twin fami out of storage to mod asap!!!
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