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[cyborgnumberblue]

What's the name of that delicious looking side scrolling beat 'em up, cyborgnumberblue?

That is Sengoku 3 for Neo-Geo.

Man, it really looks fantastic... Are you using the same settings in all your OSSC pics, so far? Scanlines look darker (the way I personally prefer them to be rendered) in some of them. It's hard to expect my current Asus monitor - a bit older than yours probably - to give me similar results... Colors look so damn gorgeous. I genuinely believe the overall IQ competes with your PVMs'.

Oh, and thanks for all the picture goodness.

Edit - Out of curiosity, what's the model of your monitor?

It's an ASUS VE247H.

 

[Galdelico]

Seems like the newer version/revision of the model I use for my PS360 gaming (VW246H). Still, being pretty old, I don't expect it to be fully compatible and capable of supporting LineX3 mode.

 

[KC-Slater]

Seems like the newer version/revision of the model I use for my PS360 gaming (VW246H). Still, being pretty old, I don't expect it to be fully compatible and capable of supporting LineX3 mode.

Monitors are pretty flexible when it comes to accepting odd resolutions. You shouldn't have a problem with your monitor. It's TVs where things tend to get a bit dicey with the LineX3 and the OSSC.

It's also worth mentioning that the triple-line mode typically is only problematic with some displays when dealing with inputing 480p sources. Triple-line mode with 240p sources just equates to a 720p output res, which most displays are fine with.

Edit: I haven't tried using an SNES with my OSSC yet, let alone triple-line mode with it. I've read that it may be a bit touchy...

 

[NormalFish]

Actually I'm fairly sure the issues with the ossc's linetriple is that the 720p is really off spec in terms of aspect ratio and sometimes timing.

In fact, more or less every instance of compatibility seems to be an issue of atypical resolutions or timings.

Don't think linetriple is even an option for 480p sources.

 

[KC-Slater]

Actually I'm fairly sure the issues with the ossc's linetriple is that the 720p is really off spec in terms of aspect ratio and sometimes timing.

In fact, more or less every instance of compatibility seems to be an issue of atypical resolutions or timings.

Agreed. Monitors are a lot more lenient with the incoming resolution than TVs though. You're less likely to encounter a problem in this scenario.

Don't think linetriple is even an option for 480p sources.

You're right -- I think 480p sources top out right now at line-double. My baddd!

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

Edit: I haven't tried using an SNES with my OSSC yet, let alone triple-line mode with it. I've read that it may be a bit touchy...

I've checked it out, it works fine for me:

 

[Galdelico]

Monitors are pretty flexible when it comes to accepting odd resolutions. You shouldn't have a problem with your monitor. It's TVs where things tend to get a bit dicey with the LineX3 and the OSSC.

It's also worth mentioning that the triple-line mode typically is only problematic with some displays when dealing with inputing 480p sources. Triple-line mode with 240p sources just equates to a 720p output res, which most displays are fine with.

Awesome, thanks for clarifying it.

I've checked it out, it works fine for me:

Cyborgnumberblue keeping up the great work. Fantastic shots.
Man, would you mind sharing your settings, when you have a couple of minutes? At least for the Saturn (I don't know if you have a Mega Drive as well), just to have a solid reference point to look at, when I'll finally get my unit and start it up the first time.

Also, just out of curiosity... Can the scanlines look even thicker than that?

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

Awesome, thanks for clarifying it.



Cyborgnumberblue keeping up the great work. Fantastic shots.
Man, would you mind sharing your settings, when you have a couple of minutes? At least for the Saturn (I don't know if you have a Mega Drive as well), just to have a solid reference point to look at, when I'll finally get my unit and start it up the first time.

Also, just out of curiosity... Can the scanlines look even thicker than that?

Yeah, these are 87% thickness which to me looks closer to the ones on my PVM.

I'm using stock settings for the most part for all consoles, the only thing I have on are the line tripling for 240p, scaling set to "generic 4:3", scanlines at 87% thickness/intensity with the alignment set to "bottom", and I have the low-pass filter set to auto. I also have it set to default to the 1st AV input, RGBS via SCART on boot up, if you count that.

I've used these same settings between Sega CDX, SNES mini, Neo-Geo MVS (Omega cMVS), and a Model 2 NSTJ Sega Saturn, and they all look great to me.

For anybody interested, I did some auto-lag testing from 240p Test Suite and it's basically a fraction of a frame of lag over my 20" PVM, if that. Completely imperceptible to me, though I am admittedly not very sensitive to lag in general.

Set 1

Set 2

 

[Leonsito]

What's the consensus on the Bang & Olufsen 16:9 CRTs? I found this one near me: http://es.wallapop.com/item/bang-olufsen-beovision-avant-32-vhs-118084233

 

[Peagles]

OSSC just arrived!!!

 

[Galdelico]

Yeah, these are 87% thickness which to me looks closer to the ones on my PVM.

I'm using stock settings for the most part for all consoles, the only thing I have on are the line tripling for 240p, scaling set to "generic 4:3", scanlines at 87% thickness/intensity with the alignment set to "bottom", and I have the low-pass filter set to auto. I also have it set to default to the 1st AV input, RGBS via SCART on boot up, if you count that.

I've used these same settings between Sega CDX, SNES mini, Neo-Geo MVS (Omega cMVS), and a Model 2 NSTJ Sega Saturn, and they all look great to me.

Awesome, thank you very much sir.

Are these new unit shipped with firmware 0.73 (0.74 just came out)?

OSSC just arrived!!!

Mine is one step away from delivery too (even though I kinda wish it will slide to next week, so I can work the whole weekend without distractions... ).

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

Awesome, thank you very much sir.

Are these new unit shipped with firmware 0.73 (0.74 just came out)?

Mine is 0.73, haven't updated yet.

 

[Galdelico]

Great. 0.74 doesn't come with any video-related feature anyway (it's just for better compatibility with micro SD cards, iirc).

 

[KC-Slater]

Have the implemented the masking/crop for the overscan yet? Curious specifically for Genesis/Mega Drive games. I haven't messed around with mine much, feature-wise, since I got it. (I shouldn't complain because it worked perfectly right out of the box, but there may be some interesting tweaking to take advantage of...)

 

[Galdelico]

Have the implemented the masking/crop for the overscan yet? Curious specifically for Genesis/Mega Drive games. I haven't messed around with mine much, feature-wise, since I got it. (I shouldn't complain because it worked perfectly right out of the box, but there may be some interesting tweaking to take advantage of...)

Actually, there is an option to add crop borders (didn't you post a couple of before/after pictures of them, in the old thread?) to the frame in order to mask overscan, but apparently it's not enough to cover it completely. That said, there's one guy on SHMUPS forum who posted this:

You can trim the Mega Drive overscan area pretty much perfectly by first adjusting the horizontal/vertical backporch setting inside the advanced timing tweaker. You have to centre the image first before adjusting the horizontal/vertical masking.

but, yeah... I have no idea what this advanced timing tweaker is, sorry. ^^;

 

[KC-Slater]

Actually, there is an option to add crop borders (didn't you post a couple of before/after pictures of them, in the old thread?) to the frame in order to mask overscan, but apparently it's not enough to cover it completely.

I think I had the intention of posting some, but ended up just posting some Saturn pics.

I have had it (Saturn), my Mega Drive (JP), Dreamcast, and Naomi all connected to it at one time or another, but have been using my it almost exclusively with my Saturn. (My plasma has VGA input and handles 480p alright as is, but it's nice for scanlines for pixel stuff.)

I recall reading that the feature was there, but hadn't tried it. Hopefully the firmware eventually covers everything up.

Even if it doesn't, I'm totally satisfied with the device as is at this point. The colours really pop, and it's a very straightforward solution to playing older consoles on modern displays in a beautiful way.

I've checked it out, it works fine for me:

That looks gorgeous! What game is that, btw?

 

[Peagles]

Mine is one step away from delivery too (even though I kinda wish it will slide to next week, so I can work the whole weekend without distractions... ).

I'm actually surprised how quick international shipping was. It's my last day of work so I'm pretty hype to test it out. Hopefully I get a bit of time before babby arrives hehe.

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

That looks gorgeous! What game is that, btw?

Gundam Wing: Endless Duel for Super Famicom.

 

[thechristoph]

It's an ASUS VE247H.

Do you find this monitor to be kind of ghosty in 2D games? It's fine for modern games but when I use this monitor with my AVS there seems to be shimmering or ghosting or something on the edges of sprites.

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

Do you find this monitor to be kind of ghosty in 2D games? It's fine for modern games but when I use this monitor with my AVS there seems to be shimmering or ghosting or something on the edges of sprites.

I don't see anything like that, I tried a bunch of different consoles through it last night. Could be the AVS (hope not, I just ordered one)?

I've played tons of games/consoles on this monitor over the years and it's been nothing but fantastic.

 

[Galdelico]

I think I had the intention of posting some, but ended up just posting some Saturn pics.

I have had it (Saturn), my Mega Drive (JP), Dreamcast, and Naomi all connected to it at one time or another, but have been using my it almost exclusively with my Saturn. (My plasma has VGA input and handles 480p alright as is, but it's nice for scanlines for pixel stuff.)

I recall reading that the feature was there, but hadn't tried it. Hopefully the firmware eventually covers everything up.

Well, it looks like you can fully mask the overscan. Once again, from SHMUPS boards:

Whoever suggested to use the porch settings in advanced timings to center the image so the masking would work correctly, you are my hero! PERFECT!

I asked the guy to share the procedure/settings, if possible. Apologies for the pretty useless crosspost, I still have no clue about what those 'advanced timing' settings are, hopefully it makes more sense to you.

Edit, here we go:

I don't think it's display specific. It's to do with how the incoming signal is treated. Here's what I did:

1. I reset all the settings as a quick way to reset the masks in the post processing menu.

2. I went to advanced timings under sampling options and went to horizontal back porch length and adjusted it until the image (in this case the menu in a multi cart) was exactly in the center, I.e. It had equal number of pixels border either side.

3. Repeated the above for the vertical. The display will lose and regain sync as you adjust he numbers.

4. I went to post processing and increased the numbers on the horizontal and vertical masks until all the overscan was hidden.

It's great!

Hope it helps!

I'm actually surprised how quick international shipping was. It's my last day of work so I'm pretty hype to test it out. Hopefully I get a bit of time before babby arrives hehe.

Seriously, it's been lightning fast! When is the other delivery supposed to happen?

 

[Peagles]

Seriously, it's been lightning fast! When is the other delivery supposed to happen?

Next Wednesday the 23rd, however I've heard it's even more unreliable than the postal system

 

[Galdelico]

So close! Congratulations once again!

 

[davidwhangchoi]

OSSC just arrived!!!

wow, that was fast!!!

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

No dice using a DVI to HDMI adapter to get output on my KS8000.

T_T

Oh well, didn't expect it would work but held out hope.

 

[Einhandr]

I've been busy with house stuff but I wanted to pop in and say I got my OSSC on Tuesday and I'm really impressed despite my limited use of it so far. Most everything I have is packed up, but I was able to test my SNES (on a shitty HDTV from 2006 that barely does 720p). Everything worked without having to adjust anything and the difference in input lag between it and my VP30 w/o deinterlacing card was noticeable. I'm deinitely happy with my purchase and next week in going to test out GBI on my PAL cube once my RGB cable comes in. In a couple weeks I'll be able to test on a better display.

 

[BubblegumCrisis]

This seems like as good a place than any to ask.

I need help obtaining solid information on HDMI colour space, in conjunction with connecting retro consoles to a PC monitor.
To preface, the Wii U was a source of great frustration for myself, due to Nintendo forgoing a Full RGB option. Perpetually stuck in limited-range RGB, the console unfortunately won’t look correct on anything but a HDTV (or monitor with a limited option, something the vast majority don't).

This brings me to my query about the HDMI-out on devices like the OSSC, and HDMI mods such as the Hi-Def NES and UltraHD for N64.
Are all the above limited to “limited” RGB ranges, due having to output through HDMI?
Though the OSSC accepts SCART in, does it undergo a colour conversion upon spitting out a HDMI signal?
Would a HDMI to VGA converter circumvent the limited-range issue?

 

[televator]

This seems like as good a place than any to ask.

I need help obtaining solid information on HDMI colour space, in conjunction with connecting retro consoles to a PC monitor.
To preface, the Wii U was a source of great frustration for myself, due to Nintendo forgoing a Full RGB option. Perpetually stuck in limited-range RGB, the console unfortunately won’t look correct on anything but a HDTV (or monitor with a limited option, something the vast majority don't).

This brings me to my query about the HDMI-out on devices like the OSSC, and HDMI mods such as the Hi-Def NES and UltraHD for N64.
Are all the above limited to “limited” RGB ranges, due having to output through HDMI?
Though the OSSC accepts SCART in, does it undergo a colour conversion upon spitting out a HDMI signal?
Would a HDMI to VGA converter circumvent the limited-range issue?

HDMI itself supports a wide range of color spaces and their corresponding gamma scales. It's really up to manufacturers as to what limits and processing a device will have. Afiak, the OSSC does absolutely nothing that will produce loss to the incoming picture because it works in the uncompressed 4:4:4 color space, and according to the Wiki it supports Full range RGB. I don't currently own one to say for sure. The only real conversion going on inside the OSSC is RGB -> 4:4:4 -> RGB, but like I said, it's lossless... theoretically.

The Framemeister is a quirky machine, albeit a damn good one. However, one result is that in the interest of minimizing picture degradation we are better off leaving the Mini to convert all color to 4:2:2 and naturally limiting the gray scale. The bad news it that I'm not sure how well supported YCbCr is in computer monitors via HDMI as far as getting the correct gamma scale for it. You could of course, set the Framemeister to RGB full output regardless if you don't mind some out of whack color balance.

You can run into the same dilemma with a HDMI -> VGA converter, as you can't be sure that your limited scale is going to be handled correctly until you test it.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

The only real conversion going on inside the OSSC is RGB -> 4:4:4 -> RGB, but like I said, it's lossless... theoretically.

FYI there is some minor color inaccuracy in converting between RGB and YUV digitally due to rounding error. You would never notice it but if it's converted back and forth like 500 times it becomes pretty significant.

 

[Fabthegnome]

.

 

[Mega]

OSSC arrived for me tonight as well. Not sure what I wanna use it with yet but it'll be in my living room. I've been holding off on a Saturn purchase on account of not having space for it where the CRTs are. Could be a nice fit for the living room.

 

[Galdelico]

Speaking of the Dreamcast, how would you recommend I go about connecting this to the OSSC, would a basic VGA box do the job or are those Toro boxes really the only way to go?

I'd be very interested to know more about this too.

And yeah, hopefully I'll be able to test it myself soon, but if you have a couple of minutes and don't mind checking out the trick to mask the colored overscan you get with most games (see my post somewhere above), that would be super appreciated!

 

[Peagles]

I use a Toro now but I still have an old VGA box. I could test both out with the OSSC and post some results perhaps?

 

[Galdelico]

That would be very much appreciated, Peagles.
In the meantime, I've got mine too, just came in! Can't wait to give it some time, later on in the eve.

Any cons, in using my Hama scart switch box with the OSSC? Or is it better to just plug one console in at the time? I'm usually quite afraid to mess around too much with scart sockets.

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

I've run into some issues with the OSSC and my cMVS. Any sort of screen flash causes the picture to drop out momentarily, with the LED on the unit turning orange. The picture comes back within 2-3 seconds and the light goes green again. Confirmed it in Waku Waku 7 and Samurai Shodown 2.

There are probably settings to compensate for it, but I'm not familiar enough to figure out what I'd need to change.

 

[KC-Slater]

I asked the guy to share the procedure/settings, if possible. Apologies for the pretty useless crosspost, I still have no clue about what those 'advanced timing' settings are, hopefully it makes more sense to you....Hope it helps!

Amazing -- thank you! I'm going to mess around with this over the weekend. I'll try to post some pics.

I'd be very interested to know more about this too.

FWIW I have been using an off-brand VGA box from the early-2000s. No issues with it, but I don't have any basis of comparison, as I've never seen either an Official VGA cable nor a TORO in action. (I'm almost afraid to know the difference, as that just means the inevitability of spending more money on cables lol.)

Granted, I haven't tried playing anything in 240p via VGA into the OSSC, then line-tripling it up to 720p. I've just been playing at either 480p (added scaliness, but TV scaling) or line-doubling that (via OSSC.)

I've run into some issues with the OSSC and my cMVS. Any sort of screen flash causes the picture to drop out momentarily, with the LED on the unit turning orange. The picture comes back within 2-3 seconds and the light goes green again. Confirmed it in Waku Waku 7 and Samurai Shodown 2.

There are probably settings to compensate for it, but I'm not familiar enough to figure out what I'd need to change.

Is is possible that the signal is changing momentarily? This sound like the OSSC is going through the same process as when I bring up the menu/map screens on Saturn SOTN, (which temporarily switches to an interlaced signal for those specifics screens.)

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

Is is possible that the signal is changing momentarily? This sound like the OSSC is going through the same process as when I bring up the menu/map screens on Saturn SOTN, (which temporarily switches to an interlaced signal for those specifics screens.)

It's possible, but I don't think so. There's a screen flash during the round-ending blow in Waku Waku 7 and it cuts out precisely at that moment. It happens during the screen flashes in the intro, as well.

 

[Peltz]

How do people here think that VC games should be rendered on the Switch? Obviously, for sprite based games, simple integer scaling should be best.

But what about N64? Should they shoot for a higher frame buffer? They still had all N64 games at 480p for example on Wii U which I thought was rather interesting. Should they attempt to push that to 720p?

I have mixed feelings on it.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

I've run into some issues with the OSSC and my cMVS. Any sort of screen flash causes the picture to drop out momentarily, with the LED on the unit turning orange. The picture comes back within 2-3 seconds and the light goes green again. Confirmed it in Waku Waku 7 and Samurai Shodown 2.

There are probably settings to compensate for it, but I'm not familiar enough to figure out what I'd need to change.

Are your cables shielded?

White screens over RGB are always what people complain causes audio noise. It might be that an unshielded cable is interfering with the sync line just enough for sync to drop out on the ossc.

How do people here think that VC games should be rendered on the Switch? Obviously, for sprite based games, simple integer scaling should be best.

But what about N64? Should they shoot for a higher frame buffer? They still had all N64 games at 480p for example on Wii U which I thought was rather interesting. Should they attempt to push that to 720p?

I have mixed feelings on it.

Wii VC had 480p N64 as well.

I'm not really sure I have an opinion any more. I'm in no mood to rebuy virtual console games, and in no mood to buy a switch until there's a way smaller unit.

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

Are your cables shielded?

White screens over RGB are always what people complain causes audio noise. It might be that an unshielded cable is interfering with the sync line just enough for sync to drop out on the ossc.

If that were the case, wouldn't it be consistent across all my displays? It isn't happening on my PVMs, only the monitor/OSSC.

I believe the cable is shielded, anyways.

I am running all my consoles into my Bandridge auto-switch, from that output to my AV distributor, then to all my displays. All my cables are shielded ones from retro_console_accessories.

 

[Espo83]

I got mine too, so far I have played Saturn and PS2. Super excited about this thing, now I gotta get my SNES outputting RGB.

 

[TeaJay]

I got mine too, so far I have played Saturn and PS2. Super excited about this thing, now I gotta get my SNES outputting RGB.

Do you have the SNES mini? The other models (both PAL and NTSC) output RGB by default. You just need the right cable.

 

[Espo83]

I thought that was the case, just never bothered investing in a cable until now. Now all I have to do is wait...

The engraved lettering on mine was still a little crusty so I gave it a light brushing with rubbing alcohol and a toothbrush to make sure it as photo ready.

It hard for me to take pictures that do this justice.

How good early 3D games look is probably what impresses me the most.

 

[Brhoom]

Anyone owns both the OSSC and the Framemeister and a 4K TV?

Which one is best for 4K?

 

[NormalFish]

Anyone owns both the OSSC and the Framemeister and a 4K TV?

Which one is best for 4K?

Didn't you have this question answered before? What does "best" mean here? If we're talking lag, the OSSC will almost certainly be better. If we're talking image quality for 240p, then they're pretty comparable. 480i, the framemeister wins. 480p, the OSSC will essentially pass through, so it or your TV's built in scaler will probably win.

 

[Mega]

How do people here think that VC games should be rendered on the Switch? Obviously, for sprite based games, simple integer scaling should be best.

But what about N64? Should they shoot for a higher frame buffer? They still had all N64 games at 480p for example on Wii U which I thought was rather interesting. Should they attempt to push that to 720p?

I have mixed feelings on it.

From what I have seen playing N64 games on a 720p Android handheld with a 5" IPS screen... it doesn't matter much whether they go with 480p or 720p. Latter is obviously clearer but the slightly fuzzier 480p for N64 graphics is as good to me if that makes any sense. It's a minor difference on a portable. But most TVs are better at upscaling 720p (vs 480p) and it's an integer for 4KTVs, so 720p is probably the way to go. My only concern there is that I think 32/64-bit games become uglier the higher you bump up the resolution and don't do any post processing with the raw output (CRT/signal/mask filters, scanlines).

I've run into some issues with the OSSC and my cMVS. Any sort of screen flash causes the picture to drop out momentarily, with the LED on the unit turning orange. The picture comes back within 2-3 seconds and the light goes green again. Confirmed it in Waku Waku 7 and Samurai Shodown 2.

There are probably settings to compensate for it, but I'm not familiar enough to figure out what I'd need to change.

Could be one of a few things. Is your CMVS using pure/composite sync? If not and it's using composite video or luma sync, you may need a sync cleaner/stripper. Or you may need a sync processor to generate a more standard signal that your OSSC or display can better understand (without distortion or dropouts).

 

[Peltz]

Next Wednesday the 23rd, however I've heard it's even more unreliable than the postal system

Two new bundles of joy.

 

[NormalFish]

USPS is trolling me. Sent my package past my city (where it sat for 2 days) down to Miami. So obnoxious.

 

[Brhoom]

Didn't you have this question answered before? What does "best" mean here? If we're talking lag, the OSSC will almost certainly be better. If we're talking image quality for 240p, then they're pretty comparable. 480i, the framemeister wins. 480p, the OSSC will essentially pass through, so it or your TV's built in scaler will probably win.

Yes. For 1080p the Framemesiter is without a doubt the purchase for me, but for 4K people are still divided, one guy tells me it looks phonememinal the other tells me it looks bad.

The Framemesiter will be mine next month, but I'm afraid that my 4K TV will not upscale 1080p well and I end up regreting my purchase.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Nobody makes a set of Dreamcast component cables I assume? How successful would a VGA to component adapter be for connecting to a HDTV?