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Retro AV Club Thread 2: Classic Gaming Done Right!

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B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Welp.... looks like those leftover gscartsw came and went. I checked 45 min before the creator said he would put them up for sale, and they're already gone! Alas.

Anyway he also said he'd open up a new batch of pre-orders soon, so no big deal :)
 
T

theSlacker

Member
Roge_NES said:
Finally got a good desk for my PVM.

http://i.imgur.com/nmlNgFb.jpg[IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ufbL9zL.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

That's a neat looking desk. Too bad about no space for speakers though.

[quote="BocoDragon, post: 227542403"]Welp.... looks like those leftover gscartsw came and went. I checked 45 min before the creator said he would put them up for sale, and they're already gone! Alas.

Anyway he also said he'd open up a new batch of pre-orders soon, so no big deal :)[/QUOTE]

Yeah, Even with the forewarning I wasn't able to get one. Oh well, happy it wasn't the last batch as I thought it was going to be.
Click to expand...
 
gingerbeardman

gingerbeardman

Member
Just tried my chances with a cheap Component to VGA adapter for my Epson EB-1761W projector so I can play PS1/2 through my slim PS2. Works a treat!
 
G

geniusbits

Member
purdobol said:
Haven't heard of such shaders for regular PC games. I mean it can be done in a way of writing a dx9 wrapper similar to ENB series for example. But the caveat would be compatibility with older games that use dx8 and below. It's not impossible but more effort than it's worth in my opinion. Adding to this the fact that old PC games (and old PCs) are not exactly highly popular items for retro collectors, compared to the consoles and conosle games. So the support and demand for such application is not that high.

So in reality the best way to go right now is buying old CRT and uisng it as a secondary monitor for older games that handle lower resolutions only (up to 1024x768).
For stuff from golden age (late 90 to early 2000) cheap core2duo based PC is not giving me any problems. And most of the games that are having issues launching, have some sort of fan made patches to resolve the issues.

For really old stuff DosBox is the way to go. It's not ideal but unless you wan't to deal with configuring old games, especially sound ( choosing IRQ and stuff) i would not recommend original hardware (386,486 IBM PCs).

That of course leaves a huge gap in between meaning all windows 3.x games and aplications. Don't know of any (working) emulator for that system, so the only option here is real hardware.
Click to expand...

Ok thanks for the ideas. I'm primarily interested in games from the mid 1990s on, maybe some early 1990s. Definitely will go for a good CRT.
 
G

geniusbits

Member
Khaz said:
Even then there hare hurdles: games without a fan patch or GOG port are likely to run into problems on your modern 64bit OS, the newest graphics cards are ditching the analogue VGA output, and configuring the PC to output the very low definition needed can be really difficult, if not impossible. Modern OSes and drivers are simply not designed with a variable definition in mind.
Click to expand...

Are the GOG files the original games made compatible with newer OS's? What would happen if you download a mid-1990s game on GOG onto your 1990s PC? Would it work the way the original disc would?
 
K

Khaz

Member
geniusbits said:
Are the GOG files the original games made compatible with newer OS's? What would happen if you download a mid-1990s game on GOG onto your 1990s PC? Would it work the way the original disc would?
Click to expand...

I don't have first-hand experience, but I know Philscomputerlab on youtube complained that several GOG releases broke compatibility with the original OSes when bringing the games to modern systems. Luckily the original unaltered disc image is often provided with it so that can be used to do a traditional install. He prefers to get the original discs on eBay for less hassle.
 
B

Barrel Cannon

Member
Roge_NES said:
Finally got a good desk for my PVM.

nmlNgFb.jpg

ufbL9zL.jpg
Click to expand...

This is wonderful Roge_NES. I want to attempt something like this as well. My family got some huge couches for our basement recently and the big table I had my PVM on takes up too much space and had to go. Thanks for the inspiration.

Laevateinn said:
SCART is just a cable standard designed to carry several different types of analog signals. The weirdness comes from the fact that Japan decided to create a standard of its own using the same connection but with a different pinout. Unfortunately, some of these lines carry a 5-V DC voltage which can damage your equipment if used in the wrong device.



All the best people get banned a lot. I wonder if it was for openly talking about downloading from a torrent.
Click to expand...

I usually don't pay much attention to when I see a ban. There is usually always a good reason and it's not always for a bad reason. Some people choose to ask for a temporary ban for personal reasons so they can focus on something without being on GAF. I'm sure MEGA will be back :)
 
P

Peagles

Member
Shin Johnpv said:
Guys, never move. I finally got my computer back up but not the consoles yet. Though 200Mbs internet is nice.
Click to expand...

Ffffff- I am dreading our next move... has to be done though. I just wish our housing crisis would settle down so we could at least buy a place and set it up once and be done with it!
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Shin Johnpv said:
Guys, never move. I finally got my computer back up but not the consoles yet. Though 200Mbs internet is nice.
Click to expand...

I plan on never moving again. It's the worst. When I moved over the summer I spent two solid weeks (when I wasn't working) doing non-stop unpacking and setting things up, and that was after spending a ton of time boxing stuff up and moving leftovers bit by bit. Just exhausting, took months to start feeling like I'd recovered from it.

At least I'm at gbit fiber internet now. ;)
 
L

Laevateinn

Member
SheepyGuy said:
I plan on never moving again. It's the worst. When I moved over the summer I spent two solid weeks (when I wasn't working) doing non-stop unpacking and setting things up, and that was after spending a ton of time boxing stuff up and moving leftovers bit by bit. Just exhausting, took months to start feeling like I'd recovered from it.

At least I'm at gbit fiber internet now. ;)
Click to expand...

I'm planning on moving again in a couple years but I'll shell out whatever necessary to get someone else to do everything. I moved last July and it took me until December to get rid of the last box.
 
F

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
Barrel Cannon said:
I usually don't pay much attention to when I see a ban. There is usually always a good reason and it's not always for a bad reason. Some people choose to ask for a temporary ban for personal reasons so they can focus on something without being on GAF. I'm sure MEGA will be back :)
Click to expand...
The problem is once you're banned you get banned easier next time.
 
P

Peltz

Member
NOLA_Gaffer said:
I have a Dreamcast and I have an old VGA cord for it. I'd like to play it on my HDTV. In the past I was able to just plug a VGA cable right into the TV and play it that way but my current HDTV lacks a VGA port.
Click to expand...

Behar Bros are coming out with a Dreamcast HDMI cable very very soon. I'd just wait on that. It will be the lowest lag/highest quality solution for you.

They make good stuff.
 
D

Dambrosi

Banned
NOLA_Gaffer said:
I have a Dreamcast and I have an old VGA cord for it. I'd like to play it on my HDTV. In the past I was able to just plug a VGA cable right into the TV and play it that way but my current HDTV lacks a VGA port.
Click to expand...
I too have a dreamcast with a VGA cord and a VGA to HDMI converter box, but I found it impossible to hook up the VGA to my Samsung HDTV (because Samsung VGA implementation sucks), and the HDMI box requires an external PSU that I don't have an outlet for. So I just use a normal RGB SCART for it on my HDTV, which...produces better results than I thought it would. Dreamcast image quality for the win.

I'll definitely be looking out for that OSSC thingy, though, seems super-neato.

Edit: Dreamcast HDMI? Best of all worlds.
 
D

dubc35

Member
Hmm, need some 240p test suite/sd2snes help.

I have two PVM's: 1351Q and 1954Q. I am selling the 1351Q to a friend soon so I brought it out to check it out and make sure everything is still working.

I noticed an issue when trying to run the 240p test suite via sd2snes. It works without issue on the 19" but on the 13" after booting it from the sd2snes menu the 240p title screen shows but then quickly fades to black. If I toggle the input from RGB to composite or component and back to RGB it shows up again but then quickly fades back to black.

Other games on the sd2snes via the 13" boot and work normally without any issue so I'm not sure what the 240p test suite issue is. Has anyone else noticed/heard something like this? The 13" also has no issues with og snes carts.

edit, need to go back and check it again on my 19". If I can replicate it there, it's probably something with my SNES. It worked on it earlier without issue.
edit2, yep still works fine on the 19"
 
P

Peagles

Member
Hmm, I've only seen the fade to black once before when using an NTSC SNES RGB cable with a PAL SNES. But that doesn't explain why it only does it on one monitor and not the other. Maybe they have different circuitry that somehow replicates that issue?
 
S

Shin Johnpv

Member
Peagles said:
Ffffff- I am dreading our next move... has to be done though. I just wish our housing crisis would settle down so we could at least buy a place and set it up once and be done with it!
Click to expand...

UGH That sounds like even worse issues with moving, I wish you luck, and hope you find something.

SheepyGuy said:
I plan on never moving again. It's the worst. When I moved over the summer I spent two solid weeks (when I wasn't working) doing non-stop unpacking and setting things up, and that was after spending a ton of time boxing stuff up and moving leftovers bit by bit. Just exhausting, took months to start feeling like I'd recovered from it.

At least I'm at gbit fiber internet now. ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah I basically worked 2 days since the 23rd of December and all that time off has been put into packing, moving, and now unpacking and exhausting is the perfect way to describe it. We are not even close to being done unpacked, and still have a bunch of shit at the old place and tomorrow is the last of my days off.

also so damn jealous of gbit fiber.
 
K

Khaz

Member
Yeah I saw it before, super cool use of technology. It's quite clever, and obvious when you think about it (like everything clever). The work implementing it must have been very complex though.

I do wonder how to go past the prototype phase and allow others to use it, as a kit or otherwise. How much of a Wiimote you need, if you can sell parts of Wiimote technology without breaking any patents, etc. Maybe he will devise a way to hack the Wiimote and use its connector to connect to the retro-console?
 
G

Galdelico

Member
Looks like there's a small number of OSSC unit left from last batch, so numbers in between 1751 and 1771 should be able to grab one.

Also, Bucko said the new firmware - the one that will introduce the Profiles feature - is going through beta testing. Shouldn't take too long for it to be released, I guess.
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Khaz said:
Yeah I saw it before, super cool use of technology. It's quite clever, and obvious when you think about it (like everything clever). The work implementing it must have been very complex though.

I do wonder how to go past the prototype phase and allow others to use it, as a kit or otherwise. How much of a Wiimote you need, if you can sell parts of Wiimote technology without breaking any patents, etc. Maybe he will devise a way to hack the Wiimote and use its connector to connect to the retro-console?
Click to expand...

I think with the Wii remote you can get an x/y coordinate with just the light bar and a simple cell phone cmos camera. I'm not sure if he used an actual Wii remote or some clone to make that light gun.

Once you have an X/Y if you still had access to the video sync timing you could work backwards to find where in the field you would want to simulate a light gun detecting the crt beam. Not sure how you make that accurate though.
 
K

Khaz

Member
SheepyGuy said:
Once you have an X/Y if you still had access to the video sync timing you could work backwards to find where in the field you would want to simulate a light gun detecting the crt beam. Not sure how you make that accurate though.
Click to expand...

You can be very accurate if you simulate everything.

You know that a lightgun is based on two signals. The first is the trigger button, which asks the console to send a white picture. The second is sent once the beam reaches where the light guns points at. the time difference between the two signals gives the console a pixel accuracy to where the gun is pointing at.

By disconnecting the trigger button from the white flash, you can do: trigger button asks for X,Y coordinates; a processor translate X,Y into the corresponding time value; the gun sends two pulses with that specific delay to the console. The screen still flashes in between, but that specific information isn't used. The console then decides what to do depending on the aim and the frame it just drew.

The main problem with that is lag. How long does it take to compute everything? given the modern LCD has lag of its own, is the target currently displayed on it still in that position for the computer? It isn't a new problem though.

Incidentally, I don't know how one could simulate the NES zapper. The much simpler construction of simply detecting any light to know whether it hit something, without any regard for its spatial position, may be much more difficult to implement.
 
P

Peltz

Member
Not sure if this is appropriate discussion for our Retro AV Club, but how do 7th Gen consoles (PS3 and Xbox 360 specifically) as well as the Wii U look on 4k displays?

I've never seen them on anything other than 720p and 1080p displays. Are the jaggies far more pronounced?

I'm considering a 4K set that I would use for PS3, Xbox 360, Wii U, PS4 Pro and eventually Scorpio. But I may have one 1080p setup in my bedroom as well as one 4k setup in my living room if 1080p sets handle 720p (and lower) games that much better.
 
L

Laevateinn

Member
It probably depends a lot on the television and what kind of scaling hardware/software it has internally. Be sure to spend a lot of money and you'll probably be okay.

Note: I don't have a 4k TV and am not planning on getting one anytime soon.
 
M

March of the Crabs

Member
Is the difference between component on Wii and component on Gamecube worth the investment in a GCN component cable? I've been playing everything on my Wii for now but I want the best possible image quality because I am OCD.

Also, finally hooked up my CRT again to play SNES and N64 and I forgot how much better everything looks. It's night and day really.
 
P

Peltz

Member
Lulzwagon said:
Is the difference between component on Wii and component on Gamecube worth the investment in a GCN component cable?
Click to expand...
No.

Only grab component on GCN if you also have Gameboy Player needs. Then it may be worth it.

But I think many Wii systems output a picture that is as clean as GCN. I cannot see a difference between the two in any of my setups (and I've tried repeatedly).
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Lulzwagon said:
Is the difference between component on Wii and component on Gamecube worth the investment in a GCN component cable? I've been playing everything on my Wii for now but I want the best possible image quality because I am OCD.

Also, finally hooked up my CRT again to play SNES and N64 and I forgot how much better everything looks. It's night and day really.
Click to expand...

You can tell the difference if you load up test patterns. Other than that I'm not sure why people complain about Wii's component output.

The useful thing about GC component cables is for use with GB Player / GBI, but s-video is good enough and way cheaper.
 
C

cyborgnumberblue

Member
Peltz said:
Not sure if this is appropriate discussion for our Retro AV Club, but how do 7th Gen consoles (PS3 and Xbox 360 specifically) as well as the Wii U look on 4k displays?

I've never seen them on anything other than 720p and 1080p displays. Are the jaggies far more pronounced?

I'm considering a 4K set that I would use for PS3, Xbox 360, Wii U, PS4 Pro and eventually Scorpio. But I may have one 1080p setup in my bedroom as well as one 4k setup in my living room if 1080p sets handle 720p (and lower) games that much better.
Click to expand...

Not sure about Xbox 360, but PS3 looks great, I don't see any pronounced jaggies or anything. It looks great, in my opinion. I'm running a 60" KS8000.
 
L

LinkSlayer64

Member
Just got a new Sharp Roku TV (for simplicity reasons, I like having the apps + sleep timer functionality even though I also play on PC and because the UI is good for me) and was bemused to find it had... no component input, but it did have yellow 0.o
Kinda a bummer as my previous TV that did have it had such poor colors, it would make Google's greens in it's logo look pastel, so I don't want to use it.

Obviously if I want the best picture I'd be using a CRT anyway, but for causally playing games It would have been nice to have, or for my older 360 that didn't have HDMI.

Is this a weird trend that is starting because of HDMI? "starting" of course, being relative, it could have been going on for years for all I know.

p.s. I just found a sharp LCD sitting in a bin, with component, and it's a nice small TV I can take with me. Hopefully it has decent colors.
 
L

Laevateinn

Member
Lulzwagon said:
Is the difference between component on Wii and component on Gamecube worth the investment in a GCN component cable? I've been playing everything on my Wii for now but I want the best possible image quality because I am OCD.

Also, finally hooked up my CRT again to play SNES and N64 and I forgot how much better everything looks. It's night and day really.
Click to expand...

Peltz said:
No.

Only grab component on GCN if you also have Gameboy Player needs. Then it may be worth it.

But I think many Wii systems output a picture that is as clean as GCN. I cannot see a difference between the two in any of my setups (and I've tried repeatedly).
Click to expand...

For me, I'm interested in GameCube component cables for the GameBoy Player and because I won't need to keep a Wii Remote around. Being able to turn the system on and have a GameCube game automatically boot up is worth the price of entry in my opinion. I will use the cloned setup though not official cables though.
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
So I'm curious how common 240p over HDMI is. Does anyone know of any list of unsupported/supported TVs?

Apparently the original Elgato HD (the 30fps one) spits out 240pHDMI. It takes in composite/s-video/component from retro consoles via a $10 adapter and decodes/digitizes it without (significant) lag to 240p-over-HDMI for viewing. The capture itself is over USB and obviously has a lot of lag.

I've seen some complaints online that it doesn't work with all TVs, elgato even put up a help page about it so it's at least not universally supported.

If you have that older elgato model and some spare time, want to hook it up to a few TVs and see which ones don't work?
 
T

Timu

Member
cyborgnumberblue said:
Not sure about Xbox 360, but PS3 looks great, I don't see any pronounced jaggies or anything. It looks great, in my opinion. I'm running a 60" KS8000.
Click to expand...
How far away do you sit from your screen? Because games without AA are definitely going to be noticeable with jaggies.
 
P

Peltz

Member
Laevateinn said:
For me, I'm interested in GameCube component cables for the GameBoy Player and because I won't need to keep a Wii Remote around. Being able to turn the system on and have a GameCube game automatically boot up is worth the price of entry in my opinion. I will use the cloned setup though not official cables though.
Click to expand...

I love Gameboy Player over component cables with GBI ULL on the PVM. I play it literally every day.

I was just saying, IQ wise, Wii looks nearly identical to GCN over component in actual games I've tested.
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Sixfortyfive said:
No idea. 240p has been part of the official HDMI spec for ages but who knows how thoroughly that's actually tested.
Click to expand...

Do you know which revision added 240p? I thought HDMI compliance was supposed to be pretty strict.

Edit: yikes apparently supported day one due to being in CEA-861

Code: 
 Code     Picture Pixel
   Short    Aspect  Aspect
   Name     Ratio   Ratio                HxV @ F

  1 DMT0659    4:3                  640x480p @ 59.94/60 Hz
  2 480p       4:3     8:9          720x480p @ 59.94/60 Hz
  3 480pH     16:9    32:37         720x480p @ 59.94/60 Hz
  4 720p      16:9     1:1         1280x720p @ 59.94/60 Hz
  5 1080i     16:9     1:1        1920x1080i @ 59.94/60 Hz
  6 480i       4:3     8:9    720(1440)x480i @ 59.94/60 Hz
  7 480iH     16:9    32:37   720(1440)x480i @ 59.94/60 Hz
  8 240p       4:3     8:9    720(1440)x240p @ 59.94/60 Hz
  9 240pH     16:9    32:37   720(1440)x240p @ 59.94/60 Hz
 10 480i4x     4:3     8:9       (2880)x480i @ 59.94/60 Hz
 11 480i4xH   16:9    32:37      (2880)x480i @ 59.94/60 Hz
 12 240p4x     4:3     8:9       (2880)x240p @ 59.94/60 Hz
 13 240p4xH   16:9    32:37      (2880)x240p @ 59.94/60 Hz
 14 480p2x     4:3     8:9         1440x480p @ 59.94/60 Hz
 15 480p2xH   16:9    32:37        1440x480p @ 59.94/60 Hz

240p defined as 720x240 with either a 8:9 or 32:37 PAR, yeah that sounds correct.
 
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