NormalFish
Banned
that there is no perceivable difference in iq from different sync signals. We've been over this god knows how many times
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Retro AV Club Thread 2: Classic Gaming Done Right!
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Eventually I'll pick up a Framemeister so I want to be future proof with the cable I pick up. So the picture quality won't be improved when using csync over luma sync?
Thank you for the great explanation.
This information was found in the FAQ for the cable:
"Q. What is the CSYNC version for?
A. Mainly for up-scalers like the Framemeister XRGB-mini and professional monitors, like the range of Sony PVM and BVMs, but will work with regular SCART TVs and SCART to HDMI up-scaling boxes."
I'll get a Framemeister eventually, should I not aim for this then? If not, will luma make a difference or should I just stick to the sync on composite cable I have now?
But I'm not saying that? I like my cables with coax wires specifically because I know CVIDEO corrupts everything around it otherwise, and I especially don't like the audio buzzing differently according to the picture onscreen.
NormalFish
Banned
Go for Luma sync if you care about price. Get csync coax if you're going all out futureproofing.
Cheers. Will have to look up csync coax.
e: could you please link to a set of the cable? Can't find it.
It depends on how you want your setup to be. If you want to have several consoles plugged in at once, I would advise to get a single sync stripper at the end of your setup. I know there are Scart-mini-DIN adapters for the Framemeister with a stripper built-in. So that you won't have to worry about having a cable that does everything for each console. The GSCARTSW switch box has a built-in optional sync stripper for example.
If you just want to have one console plugged in at all time, you can get the cable with integrated stripper. My opinion is that it's more important to get a good quality, properly wired cable (coax, shielded, with CSYNC or LUMA SYNC, and +5V), you can always add the sync stripper at the end of it.
Sounds like a good idea, but I was unable to find any coax PS2 cable, or I just don't know where to search.
NormalFish
Banned
Retro console accessories has her store down atm. Should be back up on ebay on the 10th, someone said.
Alright, thanks. I should've just asked for a link to the best cables
, never expected it to be complicated.I really appreciate all the help and info I've received.
Okay, so i'm looking to get a Sega Genesis. I've been reading up a lot on the differences between models as well as motherboard revisions, but wanted to confirm if the Video Encoder differences between revisions actually matters to RGB/Scart or if it really only applied to composite?
Am I correct in assuming that the main difference is audio, and as long as you connect RGB/Scart, video should be nearly identical across the revisions?
Am I correct in assuming that the main difference is audio, and as long as you connect RGB/Scart, video should be nearly identical across the revisions?
Laevateinn
Member
AFAIK, Model 1 is the only one that has Hi-Definition Graphics output.
But seriously, just read this. The audio on the Hi-Definition model is by far the best of any old school console I've seen.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
The audio is the thing to worry about with Genesis revisions. It's trash on some models, horrible in others, and fantastic in the earliest (VA1 to VA6). Easiest way to know is to just get a model 1 with "High Definition Graphics" but I have a VA6 with TMSS and no "High Definition Graphics" and the same back as the stinker but it still has good audio, plus it's a bit cheaper than other models.
Kiddy Dong
Member
I've done a lot of configuring in Retroarch Wii, I can provide a writeup of my setup at some point. It's a really great way to do 240p gaming, especially for people like myself who didn't grow up in the 2D era and are not attached to the hardware.
Plus, input lag is very minimal. There's more lag in the standalone GX emulators than their RA core counterparts.
this would be really great!!
Heh christmas present arrived!
Was hunting for ps2 since mine did not return from my cousins. It stopped reading discs so they trashed it...
Did a little gamble and bought one for around 8$. The auction was really vague and only said that there's no picture and sound. Turns out it's a frankenstein of a console.
Model NTSC 30001 with replaced power supply from PAL version to handle 220V. Laser works like a charm (probably replaced too). Serviced in 2010 judging from the stamp.
Memory card has already FreeMcBoot in it which is nice surprise.
The only thing that was wrong with it is that it was set to YPbPr instead of RGB. That's why there was no picture. It's weird that there was no sound though.
So happy
Was hunting for ps2 since mine did not return from my cousins. It stopped reading discs so they trashed it...
Did a little gamble and bought one for around 8$. The auction was really vague and only said that there's no picture and sound. Turns out it's a frankenstein of a console.
Model NTSC 30001 with replaced power supply from PAL version to handle 220V. Laser works like a charm (probably replaced too). Serviced in 2010 judging from the stamp.
Memory card has already FreeMcBoot in it which is nice surprise.
The only thing that was wrong with it is that it was set to YPbPr instead of RGB. That's why there was no picture. It's weird that there was no sound though.
So happy
Has anyone seen this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rliRmeKx6AQ
Apparently, this guy rotated a CRT and got Nintendo DS games to play in native resolution on it. It's all emulation though with a VGA to RGB converter. But it looks damn good!
Has anyone out there ever developed an output mod on actual DS hardware for a similar setup? Furthermore, were there any dev-kit style output devices made for DS hardware that might be floating around?
I know there are rare ones for previous Nintendo handhelds as well as one for the NGPC. But how did they make/output DS games behind the scenes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rliRmeKx6AQ
Apparently, this guy rotated a CRT and got Nintendo DS games to play in native resolution on it. It's all emulation though with a VGA to RGB converter. But it looks damn good!
Has anyone out there ever developed an output mod on actual DS hardware for a similar setup? Furthermore, were there any dev-kit style output devices made for DS hardware that might be floating around?
I know there are rare ones for previous Nintendo handhelds as well as one for the NGPC. But how did they make/output DS games behind the scenes?
sixteen-bit
Member
Don't have any way to link to it now, but I think retrorgb did a youtube video about DS video out from a dev kit. IIRC it output 480i though.
Beer Monkey
Member
I've got everything I need to do that (with 17" BVM type monitor). It could make for a pretty cool candy cab, which I do not have.
Well you can run that through an Extron to convert to 240p.
Are those expensive? I want to do this for Mega Man 9 and 10 on Wii. What specifically would I need to buy?
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Is there an IC I can use to just disable the interlace scanline offset pulse in 480i to make it 240p?
CrashPrime
Member
Do you use channel forwarders so games have their own icon? That is the part that I am sort of stuck on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhTOwI8CITM
This is the only video I can find of this.
I would just inject VC but the NES palette is garbage, and yes, its super dark on Wii & Wii U. I thought it was just Wii U but for whatever reason their color choice is SO DARK.
On a completlely different note, I have a PS2 and the Network Adapter and the 40gb hard drive. Is there any sense is getting a larger IDE hard drive? Are they still available or are we at a point where flash memory makes more sense? I really want to save the laser of my beloved childhood PS2.
Something like this?
I would stick with 40gb one. Or sell the NA and buy chinese SATA knockoff. Or if you feel like tinkering, i remember reading about converting original NA from IDE to SATA.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Hmmmmmmmm I just happen to have a digikey order coming today with some of that stuff and the rest of it lying around. I might have a weekend project ready to go.
CrashPrime
Member
There is a china SATA network adapter? Does it work with backup loading? Like I said I use the 40gb to save the laser but still use my original system.
Haven't used one myself... yet
But from what understand they work good. They lack ethernet port though. Supports HDD up to 2 TB.
Speaking of ethernet, you can use that to share HDD over the network and use that in PS2. The downside of course is that PC needs to be running, or you have to have Samba capable router.
You're brave
But from what understand they work good. They lack ethernet port though. Supports HDD up to 2 TB.
Speaking of ethernet, you can use that to share HDD over the network and use that in PS2. The downside of course is that PC needs to be running, or you have to have Samba capable router.
You're brave
cyborgnumberblue
Member
An Extron Emotia, or SuperEmotia. I got one for about 100 bucks off ebay, but it needs some work to become fully functional again.
Beer Monkey
Member
I bought an Extron 203Rxi for like 50 bucks shipped brand new. The joke was on me, I don't even use it.
I don't have any darkness issues on OG Wii (NES VC). Are you using a CRT?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
If you go to one of those mom n pop computer stores, you might be able to find a used IDE hard drive with large storage. That's what I did about a year ago... found a 500gb one (that's the max size for them, I think).
I know these things can't last forever and eventually we should switch to SATA or flash, but considering the relatively little wear on an Hdd in a PS2, it seems to be going strong for a long time.
Yuck!!!
Kiddy Dong
Member
I just select the game internally in RA, it works well enough for me. I'm rarely in the system menu anyways. That seems like a lot of work to get them into channels, you'd need a working devkitPPC toolchain, and do hex editing on a game by game basis.
The "Nostalgia" color pallete in the Nestopia core is very good. It's basically the final result of FireBrand's accurate NES pallete project (the "unsaturated" series). It should be available in the latest nightly, the Wii nightly build is not broken anymore so everyone should be able to update now.
How do I convert Wii's component output into the VGA input on one of those extron devices that will be properly recognized?
P.S. It would be interesting to see how 480i native games look when forced into 240p in general.
Shin Johnpv
Member
If you want to use freeMcBoot and run your games off the hard drive you'll need a way more space than 40 gigs. For me my laser was starting to get grumpy we shall say, and since my PS2 is modded to play imports, I didn't want to deal with replacing it. I had 2 NA so I didn't mind getting this and try it http://www.maxdiypower.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=103 . It replaces the IDE power and data ports with SATA ones. I should make note, that while the above doesn't mention it, some NAs (both of mine) use Torx screws instead of phillips. I needed a size ummm T5 I think Torx screw to open up my NA, but the actual act of switching out the connectors is SUPER easy.
So far so good, I hit some bumps in the road getting HDLoader to run and getting my games transferred to the harddrive, but since then it's been smooth sailing. Oh I got a 1TB Toshiba drive for it. My current PS2 collection (120 something games) takes up about 400 gigs or so. I probably could have gone with a 500 gig, but I like have extra space.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
Hmmmmmm. Not sure if there is a Wii VGA Cable you could snag. I was using VGA compatible systems like XB360 and Dreamcast.
Beer Monkey
Member
You'd need to transcode it (or hack firmware of Wii to make it think it's an EU model and output RGB).
PumpkinSpice
Banned
So.
I think I found a device that will forward RGB or YPbPr as 240p HDMI (no scaling). I think this is a good cheap solution as a surprisingly large number of TVs seem to handle 240p HDMI quite well.
Less than $20. You'd just need to pair the VGA input with an adapter to SCART with an LM1881 to split csync into vsync/hsync, and you're good.
Problem is, 1000 is the minimum order.
Anyone want to help find a downstream seller in the western hemisphere? This kind of company manufactures generic stuff for resale by other brands so there should be one for sale somewhere.
I think I found a device that will forward RGB or YPbPr as 240p HDMI (no scaling). I think this is a good cheap solution as a surprisingly large number of TVs seem to handle 240p HDMI quite well.
Less than $20. You'd just need to pair the VGA input with an adapter to SCART with an LM1881 to split csync into vsync/hsync, and you're good.
Problem is, 1000 is the minimum order.
Anyone want to help find a downstream seller in the western hemisphere? This kind of company manufactures generic stuff for resale by other brands so there should be one for sale somewhere.
What makes you think there is no scaling involved?
Beer Monkey
Member
Cheap analog to HDMI convertors are usually total crap. Just a general warning. Often far worse than the conversion circuitry in your TV.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
I went looking into just what the component to hdmi box I have is. It has no lag and does a nice analog to digital conversion. Turns out it's the same as that but with component RCA jacks. As far as I can tell the internals on their HDMI boxes are almost the same but with different inputs and the chips inside reconfigured for RGB (microcontroller sets the same ICs to RGB mode).
I managed to get mine to take PS2 RGB sync-on-green with a simple I2C call in the HDMI 1.3 chip on board via an I2C call yesterday. Not ideal for others but a version of this that just takes in RGB natively would be.
Voultar tweeted this out about Retro Console Acessories today. Disappointing.
https://twitter.com/Voultar_Modshop/status/814614083232288768/video/1
https://twitter.com/Voultar_Modshop/status/814614083232288768/video/1
NormalFish
Banned
As always, if you want to be sure your cables are good, make them yourself.
As demand goes up, small suppliers will cut corners. Sad reality to these things.
What investment tooling wise are looking at for DIY cables? Good soldering station, crimpers, wire, connectors...that's around $300 for one cable. I'm not saying that complaining; just noting it's not doable for everyone. [edit, I guess wire and connectors aren't really tooling but statement still stands]
I'd love to do it, and I plan on purchasing some of required tooling soon (soldering station since it's so applicable to retro gaming) but it's not feasible for me right now. I have her SNES, Genesis, and ps1/2 cable and have had no problems with them.
NormalFish
Banned
I don't know how you're getting 300$, but maybe I'm forgetting something. Itd be like 100$ up front and like 20-30$ per cable if you're getting quality shit. That's pretty similar to current cable prices without the risk of quality (unless you botch it yourself, of course).
My mistake, you're correct. I was thinking the stations I was looking at (Weller ones on Amazon) were $250ish but checking again the analog one is $95.
Were the tools I listed the required ones? What else would I need?
NormalFish
Banned
Not really. I think the best way to do it for video game cables is to buy high quality SCART to SCART extension cables and then a cheap Chinese console cable for the output.
bodine1231
Member
Just spent the last hour or so working on the geometry on my PVM. The line where the white and red meet on the left is a little crooked in the middle and I can't get that to go away but its by far the best I've ever gotten. Btw,what the hell does the "Sexy" setting do?
CrashPrime
Member
Yep. Tested on my LCD and a late model (preHD) Sony Trinitron. Admittedly better on the Trinitron but was superior using proper color pallets in FCEumm and Nestopia. SNES and Genesis are basically perfect to my eyes.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
It adjusts a tiny portion of the middle of either left/right side, sort of gives it an hourglass figure or whatever the opposite would be considered.
It depends on what cable you're trying to make.
I've recently done 3 SCART to BNC cables. To connect TVs to the RGB matrix switcher (£23.99 on retrogamingcables for one btw) for next to nothing. Just bought two thick double shielded 5m SCART -> SCART cables (2$) and 12 screw in BNC connectors (3$). Cut the SCART cable in half. Used multimeter to check which cable is which, stripped the izolation using cable stripper, and attached the connectors using screwdriver and pliers. All of this can be done without any tools other than pliers, knife, and screwdriver.
Things are more tricky with console cables, because the proprietary plugs are impossible to buy. So the next best thing is buying cheap RGB cable and dissasembling the plug. Which is not fun thing to do but worth for picture quality.
As for tools that make the job easier. I would recommend:
1. good set of pliers
2. good soldiering iron and great solder (don't skimp on solder buy a very good one it'll last for very long time, and it's a pleasure to use which is not the case with cheap stuff)
3. cable izolation stripper (it's not really necessary, but it's one of those items that when you have one you can't go back)
4. multimeter
5. those plastic tubes that shrink when you heat them up (don't know what they called in english), and a heater for good measure
And that's pretty much it. Added bonus... it's really fun and satisfying to make something on you own.
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