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Retro AV Club Thread 2: Classic Gaming Done Right!

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JDH

Member
What are their recent tweets?

They're a small company I think like 2 maybe 3 people tops doing everything. So they're not going to have huge inventories of cables and such at any given time. Unfortunately none of this stuff is really super mass produced, there just isn't the market for it.

See below. It's in regards to the quality of cables from the eBay seller. I don't want to have to buy cables more than once because of shoddy quality.

I'm guessing many people are either like me, or replacing cables with ones from the UK seller (RGC). It just seems that 2016 and now 2017 is the year I can't get anything I want because it's out of stock. Just venting is all. First world problems right?

Voultar tweeted this out about Retro Console Acessories today. Disappointing.

https://twitter.com/Voultar_Modshop/status/814614083232288768/video/1
 
Frankly, if you think retro console accessories cables are shoddy quality, you won't find a good seller anywhere. Make your own cables.
 
Frankly, if you think retro console accessories cables are shoddy quality, you won't find a good seller anywhere. Make your own cables.

What kind of investment is required to make ur own cables from scratch? I'm interested because I'd rather not keep swapping between NESRGB'd AvFami and my SNES using the same cable. Would love to start making my own.
 

Yes Boss!

Member
See below. It's in regards to the quality of cables from the eBay seller. I don't want to have to buy cables more than once because of shoddy quality.

I'm guessing many people are either like me, or replacing cables with ones from the UK seller (RGC). It just seems that 2016 and now 2017 is the year I can't get anything I want because it's out of stock. Just venting is all. First world problems right?

Go back a few years and see how everybody was shitting on the UK seller. I recall it was about shielding quality. Just go with what most seem to have good experience. In this case retroconsoleaccessories. Internet can be fickle. So a guy posts about epoxy...these things are cables. They are built for one use. A cable.
 
Frankly, if you think retro console accessories cables are shoddy quality, you won't find a good seller anywhere. Make your own cables.

eehhh I don't know if I would go that far. I know she's the darling of RetroGAF, but I think she could be inconsistent. When I was doing my own research on RGB cables and where to get them from, multiple forum posts from a variety of places popped up with issues about her cables. Lots of stuff like Voultar's tweet and such.


And Sorry I didn't see that posted here I moved the weekend of the 31st and had my computer packed up by like the 29th/30th so I'm super behind and missed a lot.
 
Yeah, it's not like retro_console_accessories won't help you out if the cable doesn't function or is shoddy in performance.

Nothing is ever going to be 100% consistent quality and this whole thing is more of a product of internet culture, being to shit on something immediately if it doesn't meet somebody's exaggerated expectation, than it is an actual quality issue, if I may be so bold to say so.
 
Go back a few years and see how everybody was shitting on the UK seller. I recall it was about shielding quality. Just go with what most seem to have good experience. In this case retroconsoleaccessories. Internet can be fickle. So a guy posts about epoxy...these things are cables. They are built for one use. A cable.
Exactly. I still don't understand why that tweet is so severe. Sometimes cables have issues. Show me a cable maker that's never made a bad cable and I'll show you the bloody Messiah
 
I know she's the darling of RetroGAF, but I think she could be inconsistent. When I was doing my own research on RGB cables and where to get them from, multiple forum posts from a variety of places popped up with issues about her cables. Lots of stuff like Voultar's tweet and such.

She is, but that is just because she has been the best person to get cables from if you don't make them yourself. Yeah there is inconsistencies, but even with them they were better then the other options, at least back when I ordered all of mine a year or so back.
 

StevieWhite

Member
She is, but that is just because she has been the best person to get cables from if you don't make them yourself. Yeah there is inconsistencies, but even with them they were better then the other options, at least back when I ordered all of mine a year or so back.

Most of my cables from her are entering their third or fourth year of use and generally still work fine - She's pretty responsive if you talk to her directly too.
 

Kawika

Member
I got in contact with someone who calibrates and sells Sony PVM/BVMs. I am mostly okay with the prices they are offering however I can tell his prices to me are a bit inflated compared to what are sold on ebay so that is something I have to work out between him and me. That said, I have choices at the moment and maybe someone can point me to the better value.

PVM20L5 - This is currently out of stock but has always been my first choice due to sharing the same crt as the BVM20F1U. (Mid tier price)

BVMD20F1U - This is an option but a lot more pricey. I am assuming this are almost the same set but this one unlike the standard 20F1U supports 480p. (high tier price)

I can also get a cheap PVM20M4U (which I currently own the 14" model) so I know what to expect. (cheapest option but I lose some vertical lines and a 2nd input for component and of course progressive 480).

The main reason I wanted the 1st 2 was the support for progressive. Am I over valuing the ability to play My gamecube/xbox/ps2 gen in progressive? Has anyone seen what 240p looks like on either of these sets as I am primarily into the NES, SNES, and PS1 generations.
 

JDH

Member
Frankly, if you think retro console accessories cables are shoddy quality, you won't find a good seller anywhere. Make your own cables.

To be honest I can't really judge if they are shoddy or not. I'm just going on what others say (which I assume know more about cables than I do)

I guess maybe I jumped the boat here. As i stated previously though, i'm new to the whole RGB/Scart thing. I was probably too judgy :/

Go back a few years and see how everybody was shitting on the UK seller. I recall it was about shielding quality. Just go with what most seem to have good experience. In this case retroconsoleaccessories. Internet can be fickle. So a guy posts about epoxy...these things are cables. They are built for one use. A cable.

I had no idea. I'm pretty new to this as it is. From what I read - besides that tweet - It seems most people are happy with either cable maker.

Thanks for the response. I guess I shouldn't write off retroconsoleaccessories so quickly.

edit: FFS, turns out the easy seller is sold out of what I need anyways. I guess this gives me time to figure out who gets my money.
 

Peltz

Member
I got in contact with someone who calibrates and sells Sony PVM/BVMs. I am mostly okay with the prices they are offering however I can tell his prices to me are a bit inflated compared to what are sold on ebay so that is something I have to work out between him and me. That said, I have choices at the moment and maybe someone can point me to the better value.

PVM20L5 - This is currently out of stock but has always been my first choice due to sharing the same crt as the BVM20F1U. (Mid tier price)

BVMD20F1U - This is an option but a lot more pricey. I am assuming this are almost the same set but this one unlike the standard 20F1U supports 480p. (high tier price)

I can also get a cheap PVM20M4U (which I currently own the 14" model) so I know what to expect. (cheapest option but I lose some vertical lines and a 2nd input for component and of course progressive 480).

The main reason I wanted the 1st 2 was the support for progressive. Am I over valuing the ability to play My gamecube/xbox/ps2 gen in progressive? Has anyone seen what 240p looks like on either of these sets as I am primarily into the NES, SNES, and PS1 generations.

Go with the 480p support. Scanlines in 240p will be very pronounced, but it looks good,
 

KC-Slater

Member
I got in contact with someone who calibrates and sells Sony PVM/BVMs. I am mostly okay with the prices they are offering however I can tell his prices to me are a bit inflated compared to what are sold on ebay so that is something I have to work out between him and me. That said, I have choices at the moment and maybe someone can point me to the better value.


Just did a quick search on a Canadian online classified service and came across this posting. I get that our dollar is in rough shape, but $1000???
 
I paid $100 (overpaid at the time for what was my first unit) for my 20m4u and $150-$170 (forget the exact number)each for my 2 BVMd20f1us that both had 88k hours on them. I want more but prices are just shocking now.
 

Kawika

Member
I paid $100 (overpaid at the time for what was my first unit) for my 20m4u and $150-$170 (forget the exact number)each for my 2 BVMd20f1us that both had 88k hours on them. I want more but prices are just shocking now.

So you have the model I want. What are your thoughts since I have a M4U right now. I really am paying a premium for the calibration and CRT recharge.

The BVMDF1U isn't even $1,000 from my guy I don't know what that site is but clearly they are overcharging for that M4U
 
Hey all!

Apologies if this has been covered to death already, I am trying to suss out the best way to emulate all of my old SNES/Genesis/etc games.

I have an Nvidia Shield TV and have been able to emulate games fine on individual emulators etc but I find having to open lots of apps quite confusing and tricky. I have tried to use Retroarch but find that it isn't very user friendly at all and I quickly get frustrated with configuring it.

I have seen things like Retropie on the Raspberry Pi 3 that look simple and have all of the emulators etc in one program with artwork etc. There are bundles on eBay with the Pi 3 already configured with Retropie and I have thought of selling my Shield and using the cash to get one of these. Perhaps I am mad to do this when the Shield is already more than capable? Is there a similar way of doing this with the Shield and if so what is the best option?

I very much want it to be user friendly and easy to set up etc so any guides or advice would be much appreciated!

Also, I have noticed that there is some input lag when using the bundled Shield controller, is this normal? Is it due to it being wireless? I tried to put my TV into game mode and the issue persisted, I noticed it also happed with my NES Classic so maybe its an issue with the TV.

Thanks in advance!

I really hate to be the one to tell you, but android is just a poor platform to emulate old consoles on. You get multiple frames of input lag just because of android. That means the Nvidia Shield TV (I have one, I thought it would be an amazing box for emulation, but I didn't know either) is just an average choice.

For people who know what input lag is, it's not the correct platform.

There has been some fairly comprehensive investigation, and as of right now Windows 10 with GPU Hard Sync or Linux KMS/DRM is the best method to get away from input lag. Windows 10 is at about a 16ms advantage over dispmanx linux, but, well, windows licence and needing x86.

There are some good choices with Raspberry Pi being able to run Linux, or some nice little SoC Atom chip devices that will get you Linux or Win10. Neither will be as much of a workhorse as the Nvidia Shield unfortunately. For that you'd likely need to get some kind of low end pentium pc build going.

The other thing I have debated trying myself but I don't even know if it can be done is installing linux on the shield tv.

If your emulation needs stop at PS1, you are in luck because the $60 Raspberry Pi build will cover everything PS1 and before. Sub in an Intel Atom SoC (Intel Compute Stick 1gb 1.0 for example) and you'll be in for even less with more options (currently $48 on Amazon).

The last thing to keep in mind is for a modern 1080p display you are going to want to output native resolution. That means 720p isn't ideal but usually the default due to easy integer scaling and lower processing requirements. The reason being, modern displays have lag (inescapable truth), and scaling from 720p adds to that inherent lag.
There really isn't a $200 box that can do PS2/N64 justice that I am aware of. (Please someone prove me wrong!).

Finally, those using original hardware and a Framemeister have a little bit less lag but you still add maybe 16ms vs. 70-80ms via emulation. That's about 1 frame vs. 5 frames to compare. No lag means CRT + those old hookups.

The one question I have always wondered is how the Wii libretro cores do vs. Linux and Win10. Theoretically Wii + RetroArch + OSSC (and likely a DVDO to get 1080p) could be a thing instead of stockpiling old hardware(?).
 
I just hooked up my SNES to my LG TV and was very pleasantly impressed at how decently it scaled the image, I was expecting much worse - what do you think?

The input is RGB-SCART:

MG_9318.jpg


IMG_9320.jpg


IMG_9322.jpg
 
that looks pretty good. tbf, with a good source (scart) your tv's scaler has to be really really bad to have it not look at least passable. Hard ot tell from those how clean the scale it really, but what really matters is you're happy with it and input lag doesn't make platformers/shmups/fighters unplayable.

Might be some artifacting (hard to tell and i'm tired but nonetheless) but the snes generally doesn't give a very sharp image anyway.
 

Khaz

Member
Quite often still pictures are reasonably well upscaled, but as soon as the screen scrolls, everything blurs suddenly and get ugly. Some are better than others though.
 

D.Lo

Member
Quite often still pictures are reasonably well upscaled, but as soon as the screen scrolls, everything blurs suddenly and get ugly. Some are better than others though.
Yep, almost all TVs feature a motion adaptive deinterlacer. They treat the signal as 480i and blur moving images to smooth out 'interlacing artefacts' because they think everything they will be fed is either full motion video or a still.
 

Peltz

Member
Yep, almost all TVs feature a motion adaptive deinterlacer. They treat the signal as 480i and blur moving images to smooth out 'interlacing artefacts' because they think everything they will be fed is either full motion video or a still.

When will they ever learn? Seriously, why is it so much to ask that a company like Sony puts out an HDTV that gives us the option to process a 240p signal properly? They should include a 240p mode even if it's hidden somewhere.

It really isn't asking much and it would make a ton of people happy.
 
When will they ever learn? Seriously, why is it so much to ask that a company like Sony puts out an HDTV that gives us the option to process a 240p signal properly? They should include a 240p mode even if it's hidden somewhere.

It really isn't asking much.

Increasingly TVs are going to come with zero analog inputs.

I need to do some more testing but I'm getting increasingly confident that a simple 240p A->D conversion to HDMI might be more than enough for most people and seems to have wide support.
 

StevieWhite

Member
When will they ever learn? Seriously, why is it so much to ask that a company like Sony puts out an HDTV that gives us the option to process a 240p signal properly? They should include a 240p mode even if it's hidden somewhere.

It really isn't asking much and it would make a ton of people happy.

It probably comes with some minor, yet statistically significant degree of production cost cost, and truthfully, the overwhelming majority of consumers probably don't care, unfortunately.
 
So you have the model I want. What are your thoughts since I have a M4U right now. I really am paying a premium for the calibration and CRT recharge.

The BVMDF1U isn't even $1,000 from my guy I don't know what that site is but clearly they are overcharging for that M4U

I really do love both. It is much easier to "mess around" with the bvms (which you may not care about since you are getting it professionally calibrated) and you can be more sure of their usage since they come with an hour counter on them. Of course the picture does look slightly better as well but all the sets I have have a lot of time on them so I'm not sure how much is aging and what not. I've yet to use the "D" part of the BVM20df1u yet so can't comment on that, they were just the first BVMs that popped up in my area at a price that was flexible back when I bought. Also I'm sure you know, but make sure the BVM comes with it's control unit since it isn't built in like the PVM m4u.

Will talk more about them later if you have more questions but in a rush to get somewhere now. Sorry.
 
Increasingly TVs are going to come with zero analog inputs.

I need to do some more testing but I'm getting increasingly confident that a simple 240p A->D conversion to HDMI might be more than enough for most people and seems to have wide support.
The OSSC should do this at some point, and I imagine we'll see people do a bit further testing with the quirks of hdmi and hdtvs in conjunction with those features.
 
The OSSC should do this at some point, and I imagine we'll see people do a bit further testing with the quirks of hdmi and hdtvs in conjunction with those features.

I don't get why the ossc doesn't do that now. Other than not being aware it exists. It should be more compatible than the out of spec 480p it's using now, aside from just not working on some TVs and (more commonly) monitors.
 
I don't get why the ossc doesn't do that now. Other than not being aware it exists. It should be more compatible than the out of spec 480p it's using now, aside from just not working on some TVs and (more commonly) monitors.
It's 480p isn't that out of spec afaik. And the reasoning is that the higher resolution the output is, the less is left up to chance with a TV scaler. As far as why it doesn't have a 240p pass-through option yet, I'm fairly sure it's a question of utility and memory. The ossc currently is starting to pump against feature creep limitations due to memory architecture. And while I can definitely see the utility, it's relatively niche for a dedicated line doubler.
 

Crynox

Neo Member
I got in contact with someone who calibrates and sells Sony PVM/BVMs. I am mostly okay with the prices they are offering however I can tell his prices to me are a bit inflated compared to what are sold on ebay so that is something I have to work out between him and me. That said, I have choices at the moment and maybe someone can point me to the better value.

PVM20L5 - This is currently out of stock but has always been my first choice due to sharing the same crt as the BVM20F1U. (Mid tier price)

BVMD20F1U - This is an option but a lot more pricey. I am assuming this are almost the same set but this one unlike the standard 20F1U supports 480p. (high tier price)

I can also get a cheap PVM20M4U (which I currently own the 14" model) so I know what to expect. (cheapest option but I lose some vertical lines and a 2nd input for component and of course progressive 480).

The main reason I wanted the 1st 2 was the support for prog drop​ressive. Am I over valuing the ability to play My gamecube/xbox/ps2 gen in progressive? Has anyone seen what 240p looks like on either of these sets as I am primarily into the NES, SNES, and PS1 generations.

You need a 240P capable monitor for 240P consoles, which you already have but would be nice to get the 20inch version.

And then a separate monitor for 480P. I have this set up but instead of being ripped off for a 20L5 or a BVM D series I bought a PC CRT monitor. I use the OSSC or my mayflash VGA adapter with it.

Xbox and Dreamcast looks great but IMO GameCube/Wii looks better on my PVM on RGB. Haven't tried PS2 on it yet.

My monitor cost me £30, mayflash was £10.
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Seriously, why is it so much to ask that a company like Sony puts out an HDTV that gives us the option to process a 240p signal properly? They should include a 240p mode even if it's hidden somewhere.

The 2013/2014 model Bravias handle 240p signals correctly. I'd know because I have one.

Doesn't look amazing or anything, but at least it doesn't fuck up those 60fps transparency effects that so many TV sets often do.
 

Galdelico

Member
As announced by marqs on shmups forums, OSSC firmware 0.75 is out:

Firmware 0.75 is now officially out, with following changes:

* Added support for up to 10 profiles (incl. menu settings and adv. timing parameters)
* Remote hotkey added for quick profile loading
* Remote hotkeys added for sampling phase adjustment
* Improved remote keymap customization procedure
* Default analog sync LPF set to max
* Diy-audio fw: default TX_mode set to HDMI
* Optionally track last used input and restore it on powerup

As always, instructions and details are found on the wiki

Profiles!
 

Fallen92

Member
Damn my firmware is 0.73 which means that I can't use >2GB cards since that was added in 0.74. Is there anyway I can use my 8GB card or am I just gonna have to buy a 2GB that I'm only gonna use once?
 

Galdelico

Member
Same problem here, I've tested the OSSC with my old monitor, but never bothered to update, since I'm still in this neverending process of finishing my setup.
Informations seem very limited on the official forum too, so I have no idea if there are cards bigger than 2GB that are confirmed to work.
 

Shaneus

Member
So happy, just won an auction for 2x Sony 14" PVMs, a PVM-1444GM and PVM-1442GM. Hopefully I can find a way to get them from interstate (in Australia) given they're "local pickup only".

Reckon I might have to use one for 'tate and one for regular stuff.
 

Krelian

Member
I don't have a compatible SD card to update my OSSC either. Tried it with several 32GB cards (I don't have smaller ones) but as expected none of them work.
 

Khaz

Member
Damn my firmware is 0.73 which means that I can't use >2GB cards since that was added in 0.74. Is there anyway I can use my 8GB card or am I just gonna have to buy a 2GB that I'm only gonna use once?

I don't have a compatible SD card to update my OSSC either. Tried it with several 32GB cards (I don't have smaller ones) but as expected none of them work.

Have you tried formatting it with a single small partition, and/or use FAT16?
 
So I got a really crappy SCART to HDMI scaler because that's kinda my only option now. It's this thing.

Yeah, it's pretty much junk, but does anyone know of ways to make it suck less? I'm connecting it to my predator x34, which has G-Sync, 1440p and a really good internal scaler. So the screen itself is great, but the convertor is making everything look like garbage.
 
I couldn't get the 0.75 firmware binary to write to my SD card using two different imaging programs.

Seems to render the card unreadable by both my computer and the OSSC. Every time I put it back in my computer to try again, I have to format it.

Anybody stuck on this? I'm using a 32GB SDHC card, updating from 0.74 firmware.
 

Fallen92

Member
Have you tried formatting it with a single small partition, and/or use FAT16?
I haven't but partitioning it sounds like a great idea. I'll try it out and see if that works.

EDIT: Yeah partitioning didn't work because writing the update .bin file to the SD card as an image file with win32DiskImager just ends up reformatting the whole SD card instead of just a single partition rendering the whole process useless.
 

Madao

Member
anyone having problems with line doubled 240p?

for some reason when i set the OSSC to line double 240p, my TV won't display it. weird since it can display 480p signals passed through the OSSC just fine. is the line doubled 240p output different from a normal 480p signal?
 

Krelian

Member
I couldn't get the 0.75 firmware binary to write to my SD card using two different imaging programs.

Seems to render the card unreadable by both my computer and the OSSC. Every time I put it back in my computer to try again, I have to format it.

Anybody stuck on this? I'm using a 32GB SDHC card, updating from 0.74 firmware.
Did you try win32diskimager? If you're using OS X you should probably stick to the Terminal and use dd. In any case, it doesn't sound unusual that you need to reformat the card to use it again. It's actually more likely that the card may be incompatible with the OSSC.
Have you tried formatting it with a single small partition, and/or use FAT16?
Once I format it to FAT16 and dump the image won't the previous filesystem be gone and thus be irrelevant? Maybe I should try creating the partition though.
 
Did you try win32diskimager? If you're using OS X you should probably stick to the Terminal and use dd. In any case, it doesn't sound unusual that you need to reformat the card to use it again. It's actually more likely that the card may be incompatible with the OSSC.

Yeah, that's what I'm using.
 

Madao

Member
oh boy, i almost couldn't update my OSSC because i didn't have a micro SD card of 2GB or less on hand. then i found one and it wasn't compatible since it gave me errors. when i thought i'd be stuck, i remembered about a super old GBA video player i had that had a 512MB micro SD card and that one worked. i think the last time i had used that was a decade ago but keeping old junk turned out to be useful at least once (my unit shipped with 0.73 FW).
 
Same thing, remembered about my 2GB card in my R4 from back in the day. For some reason that worked.

On the plus side, I can put this 32GB SD card in the R4, I guess.

New firmware is cool, psyched to build a unique profile for MVS stuff so it doesn't keep losing sync.
 
So, I have a framemeister and love it. I recently got an LG B6 OLED to replace my W800B and when trying it with the upscaler, I get no hdmi sound, where with the Sony I DO get sound. I tested this with an RGB modded SNES jr.

Anyone with an XRGB use this TV?
 
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