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D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
kjacobson said:
So I do see the profile part in settings, but does this mean I need to reload a different profile for each input every time I switch - or is there a smart way to make it autoload a profile for each input setting? Appreciate it!
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no you have to log the profiles manually every time.

IrishNinja said:
ive kinda wanted a raspberry pi since learning you can use it to get a dreamcast back online
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Nothing wrong with the machine it's a fun little computer with lots of interesting uses. Using it as a low quality emulation piracy box grinds my gears however.
 
K

kjacobson

Neo Member
D.Lo said:
no you have to log the profiles manually every time.

Nothing wrong with the machine it's a fun little computer with lots of interesting uses. Using it as a low quality emulation piracy box grinds my gears however.
Click to expand...

Appreciate the info! Hmm, I'm lazy and looking for an automated solution. I may need to rethink my setup to accomplish this. I'd like to find some universal settings to use between the Saturn and SNES at the very least, and for the Wii U and Pi I'll have to do some thinking.
 
B

Bamboo

Member
My books arrived!
1KT5aaj.jpg
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Game After by Raiford Guins
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10 by ten different authors

I have to read something else first, but looking forward to it in one or two weeks. Even though it's softcover, the 10 PRINT book feels really nice and has a nice attention to detail in its print.

Edit: just wondering, is there a book thread I'm not aware of?
 
S

Shin Johnpv

Member
I set up a backloggery page at one point, but I don't remember why I stopped using it. I want to say at the time entering games from my library was just too time consuming and it would take me ages to input everything.

That's kind of the thing that kills alot of those type of programs/websites for me. I have a good sized library (I'd estimate around 1,200 games) and I need something that lets me input stuff quickly.
 
S

sixteen-bit

Member
Shin Johnpv said:
I set up a backloggery page at one point, but I don't remember why I stopped using it. I want to say at the time entering games from my library was just too time consuming and it would take me ages to input everything.

That's kind of the thing that kills alot of those type of programs/websites for me. I have a good sized library (I'd estimate around 1,200 games) and I need something that lets me input stuff quickly.
Click to expand...

like a barcode scanner?
 
S

Shin Johnpv

Member
I've been giving this a try http://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/ which lets you just scroll through a library and click what you have. I think even a barcode scanner would take too long. This seems pretty good but is dependant on accuracy and maintaining the database.

I don't know if backloggery has updated lately this was awhile back and I don't remember the exact process of adding games to your library. I just remember it taking a bit for each game.
 
G

Galdelico

Member
Shin Johnpv said:
I don't know if backloggery has updated lately this was awhile back and I don't remember the exact process of adding games to your library. I just remember it taking a bit for each game.
Click to expand...

The great thing about Backloggery is that it allows you to type in your games by yourself, so if you are like me, and it irks you when you wanna add - say - Bare Knuckle, but the database only gives you freakin Streets of Rage, or if you wish to have your Japanese games spelled correctly... Well, you're all set, there.

Of course, if you want to do it super quick, you can replace 'great' with 'not that great'. :)
 
K

-KRS-

Member
Shin Johnpv said:
I've been giving this a try http://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/ which lets you just scroll through a library and click what you have. I think even a barcode scanner would take too long. This seems pretty good but is dependant on accuracy and maintaining the database.

I don't know if backloggery has updated lately this was awhile back and I don't remember the exact process of adding games to your library. I just remember it taking a bit for each game.
Click to expand...

This is also possible with rfgeneration btw. Use advanced search and only select the console without specifying any game, then just check the rightmost checkbox. It also remembers which ones you've already checked when you go to the next page. The you just add them to your collection! :)

Still though, it took about 2 or 3 days to add my around 450 games at the time. And this was even though I already had them in a spreadsheet that I could check. I had not specified in my spreadsheet whether I had the one with an oval or round nintendo seal of quality etc, so I had to check some of them manually. And since I have PAL copies of some games, sometimes the specific region wasn't in the database and I had to request it and wait for it to be accepted before being able to add it. That was really quick though, which really impressed me.

These things do take some time. I'm just glad I had the idea to make a spreadsheet already when I only had around 200 games. That took quite a while back then. It must suck to add 1000+ games to any list for the first time...
 
lmimmfn

lmimmfn

Member
I just resurrected my 24 year old Amiga 1200, 2 weeks ago. Old harddrive was busted but everything else works, surprisingly, especially the floppy drive.

I replaced the HD with compact flash and set it up with all WHDLoad games, loving it.

I'm annoyed I lost my coding projects, art, 3d renders and models, but at least it works :)
 
K

Khaz

Member
Yeah, M2 is doing what they're doing, "not-emulation" of old games, making "definitive editions".

It was a great talk, very interesting. Just because a third-party game was on an NES shouldn't be a reason for Nintendo to be the only hardware manufacturer to have it in their current catalogue. The case for Megaman should say that whatever exclusivity deal they had to publish on a console, it doesn't stand any more. Though you have to wonder how much of it is ignorance (emulators are illegal), and how much is politics, not wanting to sour relationships with the company that is all-powerful in getting your game on their console.

I kind of wish he talked a bit about (re)releasing games on the original hardware, like how famously Atari shown that the console manufacturer has no legal hold to keep a third party from publishing code that uses said console, and can only doing so by obfuscation. I'd love to have new copies of old games being made legally, either by the rights owner or via licenses: the crazy prices of some originals and the reproduction market show that there is money to make. I know Square Enix is still selling PS1 copies of some of their games, though I don't know if they are new prints or old stock.
 
B

Balb

Member
Khaz said:
I kind of wish he talked a bit about (re)releasing games on the original hardware, like how famously Atari shown that the console manufacturer has no legal hold to keep a third party from publishing code that uses said console, and can only doing so by obfuscation. I'd love to have new copies of old games being made legally, either by the rights owner or via licenses: the crazy prices of some originals and the reproduction market show that there is money to make. I know Square Enix is still selling PS1 copies of some of their games, though I don't know if they are new prints or old stock.
Click to expand...

He's made tweets saying this should happen at least.
 
Danny Dudekisser

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
I'll watch that GDC talk when I get home, but didn't the Mega Man Legacy Collection turn out to be kinda... bad?

In any case, definitive versions of old games are the only thing I'll pay money for. If you're just going to churn out a marginally more convenient release, that's not interesting. Give me something new or better, and we'll talk.
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
Shadow Hog said:
Is anyone who didn't start trying to flamebait "SJWs" selling it? I refuse to do business with Play-Asia over that shit with DoAXVB3.
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you know, i recalled that when i was preordering too, made me realize ive been using amiami since then...it's possible amazon might list it later? i'm with you on that though.
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Chacranajxy said:
I'll watch that GDC talk when I get home, but didn't the Mega Man Legacy Collection turn out to be kinda... bad?
Click to expand...


His central point is that it should be so cheap and easy to get high quality re-releases of just about every old game on just about every platform that it's a no brainer to do so. This is the way it works for old movies. The only route to get there is via emulation.

Emulation being not very good, both in specific cases and in general, seems secondary to that goal.
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
SheepyGuy said:
His central point is that it should be so cheap and easy to get high quality re-releases of just about every old game on just about every platform that it's a no brainer to do so. This is the way it works for old movies. The only route to get there is via emulation.

Emulation being not very good, both in specific cases and in general, seems secondary to that goal.
Click to expand...
Virtual Console on Wii was getting there.

Haven't watched the video (I'm at work will look later), but that kind of seems like a bullshit comparison? The first feature film was in 1906, how long was it after that that 'all' old movies were available to everyone? Probably 80-90 years? Games are way ahead of that curve.

And not all old movies are available. A lot are lost (including the first one from 1906), some in rights hell permanently. Even via piracy some movies only copies are old VHS rips, when copies of the film originals may be in some vault.
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
D.Lo said:
Virtual Console on Wii was getting there.

Haven't watched the video (I'm at work will look later), but that kind of seems like a bullshit comparison? The first feature film was in 1906, how long was it after that that 'all' old movies were available to everyone? Probably 80-90 years? Games are way ahead of that curve.

And not all old movies are available. A lot are lost (including the first one from 1906), some in rights hell permanently. Even via piracy some movies only copies are old VHS rips, when copies of the film originals may be in some vault.
Click to expand...
Yeah I don't know that I agree with Frank overall.

The main thing is that games first and foremost are software. Software is just a completely different realm from movies or music. In the video, he compares a digitized version of a film to a game ROM but in that specific case you are comparing a set of numbers which map to color/intensity at specific time in a specific scan to machine code. One has a very deterministic output which can be replicated across all manner of devices with precision and ease; the other is instructions for how a machine should operate, and is inherently non-deterministic for many reasons, not the least of which is the need for user input.

I also really don't like the brushing away of hardware from game history that emulation enthusiasts try to do. Like most of the hard work in NES games was done in hardware... all the scrolling, the background generation, the sprites, it's all done in discrete hardware off the CPU and replicating that in software exactly with all the quirks that some games relied on or the output glitches that were just part of the experience is not possible outside of running a logic gate level simulation like an FPGA does (you can do that in software as well but it would be stupid slow). And just getting close might be OK for reliving memories and trying to cash in on ip rights or copyrights, but acting like the underlying hardware is about as relevant as an H.264 codec is just wrong.

I'd really like to see that interaction between hardware and software appreciated more by self described preservationists. Especially since it was the hardware and it's limitations that inspired the software designers to make their games the way they did. Metal Gear wouldn't have been a stealth game if the MSX could scroll backgrounds properly or handle more sprites. Wario Land wouldn't exist if the Game Boy's streaky screen had been able to better handle fast scrolling Mario games, and didn't inspire a slower moving protagonist to take the spotlight. Every Mode7 classic like F-Zero or PilotWings wouldn't exist if the realities of early 90s 3D hardware hadn't led Nintendo to include that weird pseudo-3D effect in the SNES.

Overall if we're talking about the best theoretical way for game publishers to preserve their NES games and make them available to everyone, it really would be for Nintendo to make new NES hardware, and publishers to continue selling carts of original games. Or one step removed from that, an FPGA solution for the original hardware with something like a built-in everdrive where you can buy games online and download direct to the system. But even then you run into the same kind of rights issues that might prevent something like Ducktales NES from showing up on Virtual Console... which gets back to the dumb reality of business and why wanting to truly preserve games will always exist outside of legal channels. Or to put it another way, fuck no I'm not spending $600 for a copy of Gimmick.
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
Totally agree with all that. I was going to make some of the same points but figured I should watch the video before ranting!

Hardware is so important. And in cart games the cart even was hardware. Not even just extra chips games, N64 had such fast access to the cart that good developers streamed non-sequential data from the cart at RAM-like speeds. This difference is lost of emulators can access CD games and N64 games at the same speed from RAM in emulators. These things are machines, hardware engineering is part of what they are. You don't preserve car history with approximations, you need either originals or exact replicas of every part.

I'd say to a lesser extent this applies to music and film as well. While digital can provide a very good epproximation of recordings, hardware affected history too, and that's lost if we look at it all on one modern format. Rock got big because it sounded better than Jazz on vinyl. You can't pan vertically very fast on 24fps film.
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Khaz said:
I'd rather have old games emulated and accessible everywhere than impossible to find at impossible prices.
Click to expand...
I would too but I just don't like it when people act like that's exactly the same thing as the original. Pretending that the hardware doesn't matter isn't accurate until you get to systems where developers had to code to high-level APIs only, like PSP/PS3/360 onward.

And as I said in an ideal world I'd like to see new cartridges made... in the real world I'm content to buy a digital version and back it up to my Everdrive or a burned CD for use on real hardware.
 
K

Khaz

Member
Not everybody can afford original hardware, we're a niche of a niche here.

I think you are overstating the need for original hardware for reproducing the original experience. I would argue that playing on a CRT is more important than the original console. As time passes, and processing power becomes more available, we are getting emulators that are 100% accurate with a single frame of delay (see bsnes). Does this frame count for accuracy? Absolutely, but it's also drowned in the general input lag brought by modern displays and wireless controllers. The fact that the frame drawing process isn't identical to the original hardware doesn't matter as long as the output is identical.

Praising emulation isn't burying simulation. We can have both, for different people expecting different things. The RetroUSB AVS is only the first dedicated hardware with FPGA, more are coming. At the same time, the NES Mini is also coming out, with a different mean to play the games for people with different expectations. Both world can cohabit, and people adopting one mean probably aren't interested in the other in the first place. Treating emulation like codecs simply means that a wider range of hardware could play these games, allowing for more people to access them, regardless of how you are accessing them. The picture he's painting, with old games as widely available as old movies, is a great prospect to have.

I would love having publishers getting new editions of their old games in cartridges, I stated it before. I'm also a huge proponent of reproduction making. In the far future, we will get to the point that old software fall into public domain and anyone can legally reproduce them on any media they deem fit. But, again, cartridge people are a niche, and I doubt any current publisher would have any interest in funding the making of new old cartridges. What I hope we will see is deals with independent publishers for them to publish new cartridges under license. We don't have that yet, so we have to rely on bootleggers. Some of them putting out some very good quality products.
 
T

Tain

Member
D.Lo said:
Virtual Console on Wii was getting there.

Haven't watched the video (I'm at work will look later), but that kind of seems like a bullshit comparison? The first feature film was in 1906, how long was it after that that 'all' old movies were available to everyone? Probably 80-90 years? Games are way ahead of that curve.

And not all old movies are available. A lot are lost (including the first one from 1906), some in rights hell permanently. Even via piracy some movies only copies are old VHS rips, when copies of the film originals may be in some vault.
Click to expand...

He addresses this, saying that he initially got turned onto video game preservation by looking at how many movies have been lost. In spite of this, he thinks the ubiquity of most movies today (like how there are 20 ways to legally watch a random-ass 80s film and none of them require specific hardware) is something games should shoot for, essentially using emulation in place of video codecs.
 
T

Timu

Member
Khaz said:
Not everybody can afford original hardware, we're a niche of a niche here.

I think you are overstating the need for original hardware for reproducing the original experience. I would argue that playing on a CRT is more important than the original console. As time passes, and processing power becomes more available, we are getting emulators that are 100% accurate with a single frame of delay (see bsnes). Does this frame count for accuracy? Absolutely, but it's also drowned in the general input lag brought by modern displays and wireless controllers. The fact that the frame drawing process isn't identical to the original hardware doesn't matter as long as the output is identical.

Praising emulation isn't burying simulation. We can have both, for different people expecting different things. The RetroUSB AVS is only the first dedicated hardware with FPGA, more are coming. At the same time, the NES Mini is also coming out, with a different mean to play the games for people with different expectations. Both world can cohabit, and people adopting one mean probably aren't interested in the other in the first place. Treating emulation like codecs simply means that a wider range of hardware could play these games, allowing for more people to access them, regardless of how you are accessing them. The picture he's painting, with old games as widely available as old movies, is a great prospect to have.

I would love having publishers getting new editions of their old games in cartridges, I stated it before. I'm also a huge proponent of reproduction making. In the far future, we will get to the point that old software fall into public domain and anyone can legally reproduce them on any media they deem fit. But, again, cartridge people are a niche, and I doubt any current publisher would have any interest in funding the making of new old cartridges. What I hope we will see is deals with independent publishers for them to publish new cartridges under license. We don't have that yet, so we have to rely on bootleggers. Some of them putting out some very good quality products.
Click to expand...
I agree with everything you said.
 
G

Galdelico

Member
First batch of retro goodies to come in the mail...

Haulio_zpszis2utgu.png


Looking forward to give Devastator and AVG a try, during the weekend.
Fatal Fury for the Mega Drive is not really a new entry, more like a re-entry, as I found an ultra cheap copy in better conditions than the one I already had, so I thought to pick this one up to swap them.
 
S

Shadowman16

Member
I love the box art for Garou. So much better compared to the English Neo Geo boxart!

I got my SFC copy of Final Fight this week, I need to grab FF Guy to complete my collection. I took a couple of pics of my FF collection so far(ish):

nHBkSxQ.jpg

3POFWvA.jpg


Not pictured are the MCD and GBA versions of Final Fight (forgot to include them somehow), and FF Streetwise (because I couldn't be bothered to include it in the picture, its not even hilariously bad like Revenge is)
 
G

Galdelico

Member
Woah, FF Tough, Mighty FF and Revenge in the same picture (well, pretty much). Talking about grails. :D

Speaking of which, is Revenge really that bad?
I still plan to add it to my collection, eventually (the disc-only version... I'm not sure I want to dump the money asked for the RAMbox), yet I always read it's bad. Seems odd to me that CAPCOM released such a stinker, even more considering it was basically the last game for the SEGA Saturn.
 
T

Tain

Member
Galdelico said:
Woah, FF Tough, Mighty FF and Revenge in the same picture (well, pretty much). Talking about grails. :D

Speaking of which, is Revenge really that bad?
I still plan to add it to my collection, eventually (the disc-only version... I'm not sure I want to dump the money asked for the RAMbox), yet I always read it's bad. Seems odd to me that CAPCOM released such a stinker, even more considering it was basically the last game for the SEGA Saturn.
Click to expand...

it's... not good. Like, Takara (Toshinden) tier, maybe? The visuals are kinda neat at least.
 
Danny Dudekisser

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Galdelico said:
Woah, FF Tough, Mighty FF and Revenge in the same picture (well, pretty much). Talking about grails. :D

Speaking of which, is Revenge really that bad?
I still plan to add it to my collection, eventually (the disc-only version... I'm not sure I want to dump the money asked for the RAMbox), yet I always read it's bad. Seems odd to me that CAPCOM released such a stinker, even more considering it was basically the last game for the SEGA Saturn.
Click to expand...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmI4buOm6LY

buh-bang.
 
S

Shadowman16

Member
Galdelico said:
Woah, FF Tough, Mighty FF and Revenge in the same picture (well, pretty much). Talking about grails. :D

Speaking of which, is Revenge really that bad?
I still plan to add it to my collection, eventually (the disc-only version... I'm not sure I want to dump the money asked for the RAMbox), yet I always read it's bad. Seems odd to me that CAPCOM released such a stinker, even more considering it was basically the last game for the SEGA Saturn.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was somewhat forward thinking (somehow) in my collecting a few years back and got Revenge and Tough first before they got even more expensive. Just wish I'd have done that for 1941 as well, as that looks like a real money pit to pick it up!

As for Revenge. Its not a good game, the combat isn't anywhere near as good as other Capcom fighters (I thought Alpha 3 and Ultra SFIV did more justice to the FF cast). However, I do find it bizarrely hilarious, some of the super moves are really silly and the fact that you can fight a zombie version of Belger as the final boss kinda shows they weren't taking the game all that seriously. Its one fugly game though, it requires the 4MB RAM upgrade and it still doesn't run all that well (especially not compared to stuff like Vampire Saviour, the Vs Street Fighter games and Zero 3).
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
yeah, wii VC was a really excellent service/catalog, looking back. shame they didn't follow up, and of course digital delistings always bum me out

Khaz said:
I'd rather have old games emulated and accessible everywhere than impossible to find at impossible prices.
Click to expand...

i 100% agree with this, but also see the hardware purists' point. i know some like to champion FPGA as a solid compromise for the future, but it's not a perfect science either.
 
A

aygomyownroad

Member
Searching for specific PlayStation thread and couldn't see it so hope you guys and gals can help me out.

Getting my mums PC monitor from 2001. Its 19inh CRT and was only used for 2 years before they got a laptop and it was put away until now.

Desperate to play Point Blank on the PlayStation (as LCD TVs dont work with the light gun) but have a few questions on the PlayStation one.

How reliable are they? Want to get one from eBay and just wondering what to watch for

How easy are they to repair in general?

I will have a retro room, and have Sega's but want to get PlayStation 1 and 2. Gutted my dad gave away the ps2 games but its laser broke
 
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