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[akascream]

Perhaps because some options, as you put it, break the design of the game. Well I want the option to carry more than 2 guns in Halo, or jump twice as high in Mario, I'd like the option to fly in all games.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Hey do you want dual analog support in zelda? Mario? They don't want the game do feel like an fps simple as that. BTW people you do know there is freelook in metroid right? Just not whiole moving

 

[jarrod]

Why? Do you need to see your damn character that much? What difference does it make?

If it doesn't play like a 1st person game, why make it one exactly?

Platforming could've been greatly expanded upon by going 3rd person... and shooting doesn't really take advantge of the 1st person perspective... in fact all first person did was limit level design.

 

[Teddman]

I agree with Jarrod, DaCoco, and Elyrion. Options are where it's at. The gameplay is a bizarre mishmash of 1st and 3rd person conventions that sometime result in novel and unique approaches to action, but just as often end up being unnecessarily frustrating.

I think control scheme was Metroid Prime's #1 drawback in terms of mass appeal. I can't tell you how many casuals I heard complain about the funky controls and bail out on the game early. It's too bad, because it kept a lot of people from finding out that it was a good game.

A lot of FPS fans really hate MP's controls, and it's going to cost the sequel sales.

 

[Tenguman]

Hey do you want dual analog support in zelda? Mario? They don't want the game do feel like an fps simple as that.

EXACTLY. I don't know why people don't understand that simple fact.

 

[Gorgie]

Also, I must remind everyone that we are talking about the GAMECUBE CONTROLLER. We aren't just talking about free aiming here...we are talking about DUAL ANALOG ON THE NINTENDO GAMECUBE CONTROLLER. It's a terrible controller for FPS style gameplay.

Metal Arms worked fine with me on the Gamecube. Both sticks have a nice rubber top, so I never had problems of thumbs slipping off thumbsticks while kicking Milbot ass.

With that said, I'm very glad Retro stuck to their guns and kept Prime 2 with it's original control scheme. Combat in Prime emphasises dodging, positioning, and timing (attack within the window). The people screaming for dual sticks controls are morons, and I really don't care if they can't understand the genius of Prime. As for free looking, put some slight pressur on 'R' and look, how hard is that? They're will be plenty of Halo 2 come November 9, stop docking points for any other shooter for not being Halo.

The controls in Prime are as good as it gets.

 

[Timedog]

saying i'm WRONG because I want something different than what you like?

arguing against OPTIONS???

What is there to argue? They could have put it in. They didn't because of pressure from Nintendo Japan, even though i'm pretty sure the game sold way way more overseas.

How can anyone sit there and tell me what i do and don't want?

oh that's right, i forgot, GAF= The Lizard Dimension

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

I was being sacastic.

oh ok .. sorry then

 

[DaCocoBrova]

Perhaps because some options, as you put it, break the design of the game.

The fuck outta here... It won't break sh!t. C'mon now. As much as it has been mentioned, no one has said just how that control scheme would 'break' the game.

I'll take free look/strafe on any 3D 3rd or 1st person game.

 

[Dez]

Funny, I don't see people arguing for Nintendo to just let people manually assign dual analog controls for Zelda.

Zelda DOES have dual analog controls - you use the C-stick to control the camera.. I think the best solution would be to have a toggle for dual analog controls. Hold L (while enemies are not around) and then the C-stick acts as a free look. In Prime, when you hold L, the Left analog's function changes slightly - left/right on the stick makes Samus strafe. So the only thing they would have to add is to enable free look when you press L.

 

[dynamitejim]

but just as often end up being unnecessarily frustrating.

In what way? I've never had even one problem controlling the action in the first game. Have you ever watched one of the speed runs? The mastery of the controls displayed is amazing.

saying i'm WRONG because I want something different than what you like?

No one is saying you're wrong. They're saying the game is designed around certain concepts and going dual-analog would break them. Just like being able to hold on to every weapon you picked up in Halo would change the game quite a bit.

 

[Redbeard]

Hey do you want dual analog support in zelda? Mario? They don't want the game do feel like an fps simple as that. BTW people you do know there is freelook in metroid right? Just not whiole moving

If Zelda and Mario were in first-person, then yes.

 

[dark10x]

If it doesn't play like a 1st person game, why make it one exactly?

Platforming could've been greatly expanded upon by going 3rd person... and shooting doesn't really take advantge of the 1st person perspective... in fact all first person did was limit level design.

I disagree. I think Prime destroys all previous Metroid games in every way (and yes, I've played them all). Let's leave it at that.

 

[Timedog]

Hey do you want dual analog support in zelda? Mario? They don't want the game do feel like an fps simple as that.

Bravo. Very valid comparison. The forum applauds you.


Oh wait, except for the fact that it's called a "FPS" control scheme because it works well for "FPS"er's.

Crap, and then there's that whole thing about how Metroids no control scheme options were panned in many, many reviews whereas the games you list were pretty much universally glorified beyond belief for their controls.


Yeah.....I think between those two things, your argument/example/analogy or whatever it was got pretty much flushed down the toilet.

 

[Dsal]

Any programmer knows how easy it is to make controls customizeable. It takes what, a day or two to implement? It adds a little bit of testing overhead, but that's what we pay the testers for, right? ;P

I agree, there's no excuse to not make the button assignments customizeable at least.

I just can't tolerate using the Z button for anything. Worst button in Nintendo history. Too stiff. I had to use the map a lot in MP and ended up straining my finger from the awkward pressing motion you have to use on it.

 

[Yusaku]

Voting to say, thank god it doesn't have dual analog.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Someone mentioned this already, the enemies in MP/MP2 don't lend itself well to dual analog control. Some of them don't attack with projectiles, you can be attack by as many as 8 enemies at a time.

The Large Beetle, that attacks you before you can get morph ball. The front of the Beetle has a hard shell on its that can't be damaged, but the abdomen can. You have to get a lock on him and wait for him lunge at you. When he lunges at you, you tap B and move the control stick to the left or right to his attack. While you still have a lock, you can then proceed to fire on the abdomen.

The B dash part of this battle is essential to you defeating this mini boss, even for the Omega Pirate. Because of his size, just simply strafing to the right or left wouldn't work because Samus would be moving to slow. Omega Pirates attack are very powerful, so you need to be able to get out of the way as fast as possible.

 

[SantaC]

I knew I shouldn't have posted this. All the haterz came out. Nobody is listning why Retro didn't implement it. sigh.

 

[akascream]

The fuck outta here... It won't break sh!t. C'mon now. As much as it has been mentioned, no one has said just how that control scheme would 'break' the game.

It would be like taking the lock on battle system out of Zelda. Yeah you can do it without lock on, but its awkward and you can't do the dodge moves. But It's even more important when you have to hit specific parts of an enemy's body, like Metroid or the Bow in Zelda.

 

[Shompola]

you could still have that auto lock on thing with dual analogs. I seriously don't see the problem with dual analog.

 

[akascream]

you could still have that auto lock on thing with dual analogs.

But then what do you gain? It would be nice to look around while running, but it would take away from the platforming elements of the game. Then you'd have people complaining because they can't look around while jumping and its too difficult and awkward.

Now maybe for the multiplayer aspect of the game.. but honestly, MP2 shouldn't even have a multiplayer mode, so the point is moot.

 

[Teddman]

Well, you gain the ability to free look and move at the same time. Pretty big gain.

The problem is, and Drohne touched on it earlier, is that Retro is saying that it's all for the sake of platforming. Honestly, I thought the platforming in MP couldn't hold a candle to any other game in the series and was mostly a chore. It's a first-person perspective, you can really only go so far in terms of platforming. Put in a third-person view option/camera and that would carry more weight.

 

[akascream]

I loved the platforming in MP.

Explain this to me. With only 2 shoulder buttons, how can you play dual analog and have jump, shoot (including a missle toggle) and weapons switching while moving? And if the enemy encounters are designed around a lock-on system anyway, why bother?

 

[Nerevar]

See, I DID read what you said. I would have to take my thumb off the free-look to jump. JUST LIKE HALO. That limits me to a VERY limited jump since now I have to take time to line myself up, run jump, line myself up, run jump. Not to mention enemies trying to hit you mid jump.

Funny, you have no problem with labelling other gamers as "weaksauce" for complaining about the current control scheme, yet quickly moving your thumb back and forth from the thumbstick to the b button makes the game unnecessarily hard? Give me a break.

 

[Teddman]

Aka, you're supposing that you have to have your other thumb on the right thumbstick at all times. Why would you?

For all the abilities you listed, you can't even move and aim in MP. It's a fairly big trade off.

 

[Redbeard]

I loved the platforming in MP.

Explain this to me. With only 2 shoulder buttons, how can you play dual analog and have jump, shoot (including a missle toggle) and weapons switching while moving? And if the enemy encounters are designed around a lock-on system anyway, why bother?

Map jump/shoot to the L and R buttons. Weapon switching could be combined into the d-pad (e.g. up and down switches weapons, left and right switches visors), or left on the c-stick and be accessible by pressing a button to toggle the stick's function. There are a number of ways it could work.

 

[akascream]

Aka, you're supposing that you have to have your other thumb on the right thumbstick at all times. Why would you?

For all the abilities you listed, you can't even move and aim in MP. It's a fairly big trade off.

If you have set up your controls for dual analog, then you can't turn unless you have your thumb on the right analog stick or are locked on. Seems like a similar trade off to me.

There are a number of ways it could work.

Indeed, especially the way its set up now.

 

[xsarien]

Map jump/shoot to the L and R buttons.

Do you realize how awkward jumping with a damned *shoulder* button would be? Especially how much Metroid makes you do it?

 

[Teddman]

It's also unfortunate that GameCube has the only controller among the consoles without a digital click to its analog sticks. That would have opened up some alternate schemes as well.

 

[Redbeard]

Do you realize how awkward jumping with a damned *shoulder* button would be? Especially how much Metroid makes you do it?

No more awkward than not being able move and look around at the same time.

 

[Rocket Punch]

People act as if it wasn't 5-6 years ago they were playing Goldeneye 007 with virtually the same control setup. Is ADD that widespread in the gaming comunity? Do you need help to tie your shoes?

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

How do you implement the dash move? This is a very important action.

 

[Redbeard]

People act as if it wasn't 5-6 years ago they were playing Goldeneye 007 with virtually the same control setup. Is ADD that widespread in the gaming comunity? Do you need help to tie your shoes?

You could configure your controls in GE so moving and aiming were done with the c buttons and analog stick respectively. Is loss of memory widespread?

 

[Deg]

You could configure your controls in GE so moving and aiming were done with the c buttons and analog stick respectively. Is loss of memory widespread?

But no one changed their controls. All the top players used the default. Everyone else just couldnt be bothered. MAyeb because it 'worked well'

 

[MightyHedgehog]

But no one changed their controls. All the top players used the default. Everyone else just couldnt be bothered. MAyeb because it 'worked well'

?

Are you serious? And who cares what all the top players used. What about most players? I didn't use the default control scheme. Bringing GE or PD into this is pointless as those games represent some of the best examples of games allowing for full player-control over their control-scheme...something MP doesn't give you any room to budge on...not even a little.

 

[Kon Tiki]

Ya, another Metroid Prime hate thread. We get it, you do not like MP.

 

[SantaC]

Ya, another Metroid Prime hate thread. We get it, you do not like MP.

I hope you are not refering to me. If anything I thought this thread would shut up some complainers.

 

[Kon Tiki]

No, not you. the usual suspects.

They do not like MP, the developers do not want to change it. Just give up, play something else.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I'll take free look/strafe on any 3D 3rd or 1st person game.

Play Gun Valkyrie much?

 

[The Faceless Master]

Just give us the gotdamn option!!!1

Sh!t.

EXACTLY!

and i don't even use the traditional 'Halo' setup, i use 'Turok' style, so i routinely skip many games that dont have the Turok/Solitaire/1.2/Southpaw style

all i see are a bunch of people saying that the control style "is good enough" and that "dual analog wouldnt work".. how about this, let them have configurable controls in the options, and i'll decide...

it's that so many people loudly voice an aversion to just having the option that is so angering...

in some games, i don't mind getting used to the controls, i will cope with the re4 contorl style, shit, i even like gun valkyrie!

i have 20 games for my cube, metroid prime isn't one of them... and metroid prime 2 won't be either...

ANIMAL CROSSING 2002 GOTY!!!

 

[Sinatar]

 

[The Faceless Master]

But no one changed their controls. All the top players used the default. Everyone else just couldnt be bothered. MAyeb because it 'worked well'

all the top players used Solitaire

 

[Nerevar]

all the top players used Solitaire

I love that game!

 

[Doc Holliday]

The entire feel of the game changes with dual analog. In prime you dont worry about jumping, about how freagin slow gamepad fps controls are, or swinging from one of the lava pool while aiming at enemies below in one move. Imagine the nightmare of navigating the levels in prime with dual analog especially the vertical levels that require a shitload of platforming.

 

[Future]

If Retro gave players the option for dual analogue, then that's all people would use since they are so used to it with other FPS's. People would try it, wonder why it wasn't working, and put down the game. The designers HAVE to force you to play it the way it was designed to play. Sure that means putting off people that just cannot change, but it is clear that the game was not designed for these people.

Of course they could redesign their levels/enemies to accomodate dual analogue control, but then the focus would return to aiming rather than navigation while shooting, and end up more like the typical FPS experience. They obviously don't want this....so what's the problem again?

 

[Azih]

"Well, we're dropping any real involved platforming because it's just not possible with the first person perspective we've gone with

I'll have to dispute this strongly, I stopped playing Metroid Prime fairly early because I realised I hate backtracking. But even in the little I played the platforming was pretty elaborate. I remember a tree structure in the middle of a room that you had to jump around to ascend. Certainly it was the most sophisticated jumping in any first person prespective game.

And good lord, permit me to LMAO at the people in this thread saying how 'easy' it would be to add this or add that. Development is DIFFICULT, adding ANY kind of option is NOT easy.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

I'm sorry, but I find "dual analog" control in FPS's to be LAME. Metroid Prime isn't even a FPS to begin with, but to those who complain about the controls...Waaaaaaa!!! Seriously, I hate how in FPS's you're running and then someone pops up to the side, but you're going so fast that they slip past you so easily and play this unrealistic cat'n'mouse BS. In FPS's it feels like I have to stop moving my character's body and/or move it into an odd possition, get into an aiming mode or something, take FOREVER to home in on the target then do precise aiming on a guy who's laughing at me 'cos it's taking so long to aim and running around in circles making it absolutly rediculous to aim at him...it's silly. In real life I'm going to see the guy lock my focus, in on him and instantly aim at him to shoot...fast and simple just like Metroid Prime. My aim may not be precise, but it's certainly more realistic than to move like a robot stiffly trying to line up both sticks in on a moving target! Another thing I hate about FPS's is like if you're high up aiming down at a target, then another target comes in closer on your level and you have to move the aiming stick FOREVER (it feels like) just to defend yourself from the target on your level...this is especially rediculous and unrealistic in FPS's snipe modes! In real life you'd just quickly move from one target to the next as soon as you notice that closer target and then home in on him, aim & shoot...fast and simple just like Metroid Prime. I also hate how in FPS's if you have someone chasing you in a certain scenario and you have to take FOREVER to turn around (while running away with the same stick) all while aiming with the other stick? Rediculous, in real life you would simply keep running in whatever dirrection you were going pivot your upper body so that you can look back and aim at whoevers chasing you...BAM...just like in Metroid Prime.

Don't get me wrong, FPS's are great, and the "dual analog" setup can work and can be precise, but sometimes it's UTTERLY rediculous the way you have to use them to move/aim. In real life you see something and them BAM a split second later you can aim at it. In FPS's that split second timing is not there 'cos you're waiting for a slow moving precise aiming stick to line up with what you can clearly see...or if you can move it fast enough itends up being womper-jawed and you miss taking forever to line up just right, which doesn't work in FPS world 'cos the other person is running around like a retard knowing that you can't aim at him right and laughing at you the whole time. In real life, if a dude has a gun wanting to shoot you and you dance around him laughing at him, it ain't gonna take him that long to look, aim and spray you with bullets!

 

[Gorgie]

For those wanting choice, here's your choice, accept that the game is not yours, it is Retro's and they want you to play it the way they designed it, controls and all, or don't buy the game.

I was also just thinking, I've yet to hear a complaint on people crying that the vehicles in Halo need dual sticks to drive. You could argue the game is ruined because of the steep learning requirements to get really good at handling the Warthog. Maybe Bungie should give you the choice of using only one stick to drive, and the other as a free swinging camera. Just as driving with two sticks just works in Halo, playing Metroid just works with the default control scheme.

 

[Doc Holliday]

DrGak well said..but this is only a problem with gamepads. With mouse and keyboard all the problems go away...if you're good that is

 

[Ramirez]

I feel sorry for you saps that can't fuckin adjust to something as trivial as a control scheme.