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[SiegfriedFM]

The only reason why they HAD to do this idiotic control setup is because the controller lacks four functional buttons (L2, R2, L3 and R3 if you count Z as a Select button which is how it's being used). With a normal and sane controller you could map everything to a dual analog scheme.

Halo 2 *ahem* has LOTS of platforming, especially on multiplayer, and it works marvellously with A for jumping. It's so close to the stick. You say Metroid needed the lock-on to be able to fight while jumping? I wouldn't start jumping sideways without seeing where I'm going in that game, just like I wouldn't do it in any FP game that features hazardous environments. Lock-on is a crutch that prevents us from freely handling multiple enemies. You just can't move and fire on an enemy that isn't moving straight on your horizontal plane - you'd need to lock on and thus your shots will always be one step behind.

I can promise you that I could do anything needed to do in Metroid MUCH more easily with a dual analog setup, possibly provided that I could use another controller. Nintendo painted themselves into a corner with that brick (the lack of buttons and analog functions is a FACT) and now people are trying to claim that it still works better.

</GC controller hate>

 

[ElyrionX]

I'm sorry, but I find "dual analog" control in FPS's to be LAME. Metroid Prime isn't even a FPS to begin with, but to those who complain about the controls...Waaaaaaa!!! Seriously, I hate how in FPS's you're running and then someone pops up to the side, but you're going so fast that they slip past you so easily and play this unrealistic cat'n'mouse BS. In FPS's it feels like I have to stop moving my character's body and/or move it into an odd possition, get into an aiming mode or something, take FOREVER to home in on the target then do precise aiming on a guy who's laughing at me 'cos it's taking so long to aim and running around in circles making it absolutly rediculous to aim at him...it's silly.

Look, we know you SUCK at PC FPS games, but there's no need to announce it here. Ever heard of the term "weaksauce"?

In real life I'm going to see the guy lock my focus, in on him and instantly aim at him to shoot...fast and simple just like Metroid Prime. My aim may not be precise, but it's certainly more realistic than to move like a robot stiffly trying to line up both sticks in on a moving target! Another thing I hate about FPS's is like if you're high up aiming down at a target, then another target comes in closer on your level and you have to move the aiming stick FOREVER (it feels like) just to defend yourself from the target on your level...this is especially rediculous and unrealistic in FPS's snipe modes! In real life you'd just quickly move from one target to the next as soon as you notice that closer target and then home in on him, aim & shoot...fast and simple just like Metroid Prime. I also hate how in FPS's if you have someone chasing you in a certain scenario and you have to take FOREVER to turn around (while running away with the same stick) all while aiming with the other stick? Rediculous, in real life you would simply keep running in whatever dirrection you were going pivot your upper body so that you can look back and aim at whoevers chasing you...BAM...just like in Metroid Prime.

Don't get me wrong, FPS's are great, and the "dual analog" setup can work and can be precise, but sometimes it's UTTERLY rediculous the way you have to use them to move/aim. In real life you see something and them BAM a split second later you can aim at it. In FPS's that split second timing is not there 'cos you're waiting for a slow moving precise aiming stick to line up with what you can clearly see...or if you can move it fast enough itends up being womper-jawed and you miss taking forever to line up just right, which doesn't work in FPS world 'cos the other person is running around like a retard knowing that you can't aim at him right and laughing at you the whole time. In real life, if a dude has a gun wanting to shoot you and you dance around him laughing at him, it ain't gonna take him that long to look, aim and spray you with bullets!

Ummm ok, just like how in real life we have space pirates, plasma cannons and people in suits who can morph into a goddamn ball right?

 

[Ramirez]

I still fail to see how dual analog makes anything better,most enemies required you to shoot them in specific locations,on their backside and such...not to mention all of the things you had to look around to scan for,the lock on just makes things much more enjoyable and easier to access.

But I mean Im willing to bet good money that most of the people complaining could give a fuck less about the game to begin with,just whining like a bitch for the hell of it,it is the GA way.

 

[Kon Tiki]

So people want dual analog, with the lockon button as a 'shift' key to switch betwen weapons on the fly (not cycle, that is too slow for this game). They want the lockon button to still lockon when in scan mode?

Talk about a control mess.

 

[jett]

Dumbasses. The games are made with that control scheme in mind. The level design and the enemies take said control scheme into consideration. Dual analog is not needed in Prime at all, it'd be freaking useless.

There IS freelook in the motherfreakin' game, for those that complain.

 

[ElyrionX]

But I mean Im willing to bet good money that most of the people complaining could give a fuck less about the game to begin with,just whining like a bitch for the hell of it,it is the GA way.

You're wrong. I was completely BLOWN AWAY by Metroid Prime at first. The visuals, the settings, the atmosphere. Hell, even the Main Menu with its awesome music and style blew me away. I REALLY want to love Metroid Prime. Its probably one of the most polished games this generation. And I thought the scan visor was pretty damn cool. The whole game had this great feel where you felt as if you were truly in Samus's suit. Then, the controls hit. Hard. And I stopped playing......

 

[Doc Holliday]

DAMN BUNGIe!! Why didnt they put primes control scheme as an option... assholes! I spend so much time freagin aiming when the damn thing has autoaiming anyway, POS! They better provide the option in Halo2

 

[Doc Holliday]

WHen exactly did the controls hit hard? I never thought about them once after the playing the game for a while. I really am curious to see how you would fight the last boss with dual analog on gamepad.

 

[slayn]

dual analog wasn't added as an option because it wasn't worth the vast amount of time and resources required to prove that you people are wrong.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Dumbasses. The games are made with that control scheme in mind. The level design and the enemies take said control scheme into consideration. Dual analog is not needed in Prime at all, it'd be freaking useless.

There IS freelook in the motherfreakin' game, for those that complain.

seriously, its not like the enemies in MP have some wicked AI routines that require you to engage in vicious gun battles. IMO having to free aim on every single baddy would be pretty lame. Combat takes a backseat to exploring/platforming in Metroid Prime, so of course the control scheme is gonna reflect that.

 

[Sullichin]

Anyone who dosen't like MP's controls probably hasn't played the game for more than 15-20 minutes.

 

[Redbeard]

I still fail to see how dual analog makes anything better,most enemies required you to shoot them in specific locations,on their backside and such...not to mention all of the things you had to look around to scan for,the lock on just makes things much more enjoyable and easier to access.

You wouldn't have to stand still while looking up or down to get a lock on an enemy attacking you from above/below your field of vision.

And how about scanning multiple targets that are out of your field of vision, like the computer screens in the opening level? Look up and scan the first one... whoops, I'm not close enough to scan the next one. Look back down, turn, move straight, turn back to face the computers, look up to scan the next one, etc...

Or peering over a ledge? Walk up to the edge, look down. Nope, not close enough. Look back up, move forward a little, look back down. Damn, still can't see all the way over. Look back up, move forward a little more, look back down, etc...

There are a ton of little annoyances like this.

 

[Kon Tiki]

I suggest all the haters go watch some MP speed runs. They will show you all the advanced moves. They will all prove the haters do not know anything about the game.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I suggest all the haters go watch some MP speed runs. They will show you all the advanced moves. They will all prove the haters do not know anything about the game.

You are correct sir!

 

[Shompola]

I'm not weak.

 

[Jonnyboy117]

So, what do you think the biggest flaw was?

Samus needed to move about 25% faster. Her turning speed made her feel like a tank (in a bad way), and her walking speed is too slow for crossing large distances. You can use Morph Ball, but without Spring Ball, it's not practical for many areas. I hope they add Spring Ball and/or Speed Booster to Echoes, plus crank up her turning speed.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

So with dual analog you couldn't hit specific targets on an enemy? Please.

With dual analog I can run right past an enemy, turn, and shoot them in the back, WITHOUT having to hold a button to stay locked onto them. WITH the option of shooting another enemy that turns up.

 

[etiolate]

Signal the 2d purists and FPS Drones!

Why aren't these locked right away?

Can anyone honestly tell me the game wouldn't have played better with standard FPS controls? Exactly what actions would you not be able to do?

This shows where most detractors fail, they didn't get very far in the game. Those who went through the game know there are sections where the visor/beam setup are absolutely necessary. There are no sections where dual analog free look is absolutely necessary. Jumping involves a slight panback and down of the camera to see where you are going, if your switching around the camera/view with free look you are going to have issues with jumping and landing it right.

Honestly, I am amazed if most of you can drive a car after riding a bike.

Samus needed to move about 25% faster.

Indeed. Yay for legitimate issues.

 

[Red Dolphin]

Zelda DOES have dual analog controls - you use the C-stick to control the camera.. I think the best solution would be to have a toggle for dual analog controls. Hold L (while enemies are not around) and then the C-stick acts as a free look. In Prime, when you hold L, the Left analog's function changes slightly - left/right on the stick makes Samus strafe. So the only thing they would have to add is to enable free look when you press L.

I can't believe no-one has seen this. This is by far the best suggestion of the thread for ppl wanting free look/aiming while moving. Keep Metroid's controls exactly the same except for this option.

Do the ppl complaining they want dual analogue control want the ability to run and look around at the same time or want the ability to aim and shoot while moving? I can understand the first need as being able to look around while moving would help a lot while exploring but the need for free aim in battle is useless in Prime due to the lock on and the way many enemies have to be beaten.

I must say I'm a huge 1.2 solitare/Turok scheme fan and have had a LOT of trouble adjusting to the left analogue stick being used as "the C buttons" and the right analogue stick as the "n64's analogue stick". I feel completely uncordinated with my aiming using the right analogue stick so I usually swap the functions of the analogue sticks so the left analogue is free aim and the right analogue is walking/strafing. The problem with this however is that you can't access the face buttons of the controller without taking your thumb of the right analogue stick which means you effectively have to stop moving your character. This is really bad because you can't jump easily while using this setup or change weapons while moving. So i'm trying to train myself to get used to the standard setup. 5 years of Goldeneye/Perfect Darks' 1.2 solitare is hard to get rid of because I am so used to it.

I found Metroid's controls perfectly fine and well suited to the game. I can understand someone complaining about Resident Evil's but I just can't understand ppl having MAJOR issues with Metroid's.

As mentioned in the quote, if you press L lightly (no digital click) while moving, it should change the function of the C-stick to free look instead of weapon change. This would enable free look while exploring/running around at the same time. Free look in battle is USELESS in Prime.

 

[Shogmaster]

Where were all you pro dual analog motherfuckas back when I was fighting off the all Metroid zealots by my lonesome 2 weeks ago in that other thread?!? Jeez.....

 

[Doc Holliday]

awww shogmaster was ronery.

 

[Shogmaster]

awww shogmaster was ronery.

I'm so ronrey~ so ronrey~

 

[slayn]

"As mentioned in the quote, if you press L lightly (no digital click) while moving, it should change the function of the C-stick to free look instead of weapon change. This would enable free look while exploring/running around at the same time. Free look in battle is USELESS in Prime."

while an interesting and plausible idea, my gut tells me that 99% of the people bitching would continue to bitch even with that option added. That option would merely allow them to play 3 hours, instead of 2, and by then they would have come across something else to bitch about.

 

[jarrod]

Where were all you pro dual analog motherfuckas back when I was fighting off the all Metroid zealots by my lonesome 2 weeks ago in that other thread?!? Jeez.....

I try to avoid Metroid Prime threads. Sorry. :/

 

[Kai Dracon]

It seems people who want first-person controls to all work according to a single paradigm aren't acknowledging that Metroid Prime was designed with the control scheme in mind, as has been pointed out. The game design and control set-up work hand-in-hand. I've seen people play more than 10 minutes of Prime and still refuse to acknowledge there is any difference in gameplay and combat compared to say, Halo, and thus blast the controls for not following the "standard".

It reminds me of hardcore arguments between elitist Street Fighter fans and elitist Virtua Fighter fans, where each side swears by some supposed emperical "science" that the button configuration for their respective games is the one, true, most efficient design... regardless of the inherent design of the games themselves and what controls work best.

And btw, in my view, it's not just that Metroid Prime is about exploration more than combat - there's plenty of stuff to shoot. It isn't mean to be typical FPS combat however, and is styled after the more linear shooting action of the 2D Metriod games. In my opinion, it works great in preserving the same feeling. Also, while I have no idea if Retro intended this, the way the controls and lock-on work actually enhance the feeling of being in a heavy, restrictive suit of armor with a computer-guided weapon system. If someone calls this rationalization to justify the "horrible" controls, I call bullshit right back - it -does- create that immersion. In point of fact, here's something I do not like about most FPS games:

For all that they are supposed to "immersive" because "wow, it's through your eyes! You're there in the action! Intense combat baby!", the typical FPS feels like I'm not a person with a gun, but a floating camera with a gun. The "freedom" of wild spinning about with no sense of momentum, inertia, restrictions, may lend itself to wild split-second combat for the super twitch gods, but the last thing it is, is truly immersive. Some might argue that in real life you can whip your head around really fast, but in a game, you don't have the sense of your entire body really being there. Something needs to compensate for that, to keep it from feeling as if you're a disembodied ghost.

In Metroid Prime, I actually felt like I was in a suit, that I was vunerable in combat and manuvering in the way a person in a powerful, but heavy and clunky suit would be.

 

[Rocket Punch]

The only reason why they HAD to do this idiotic control setup is because the controller lacks four functional buttons (L2, R2, L3 and R3 if you count Z as a Select button which is how it's being used). With a normal and sane controller you could map everything to a dual analog scheme.

Halo 2 *ahem* has LOTS of platforming, especially on multiplayer, and it works marvellously with A for jumping. It's so close to the stick. You say Metroid needed the lock-on to be able to fight while jumping? I wouldn't start jumping sideways without seeing where I'm going in that game, just like I wouldn't do it in any FP game that features hazardous environments. Lock-on is a crutch that prevents us from freely handling multiple enemies. You just can't move and fire on an enemy that isn't moving straight on your horizontal plane - you'd need to lock on and thus your shots will always be one step behind.

I can promise you that I could do anything needed to do in Metroid MUCH more easily with a dual analog setup, possibly provided that I could use another controller. Nintendo painted themselves into a corner with that brick (the lack of buttons and analog functions is a FACT) and now people are trying to claim that it still works better.

</GC controller hate>

OMG!!! TEH MISSING BUTTON!!!111111 TEH GENIUOSSSEE.

Try again. With brains this time. Or better yet, don't. I'm done reading this thread. No sense arguing with people THIS obtuse.

 

[Shogmaster]

OMG!!! TEH MISSING BUTTON!!!111111 TEH GENIUOSSSEE.

Try again. With brains this time. Or better yet, don't. I'm done reading this thread. No sense arguing with people THIS obtuse.

You are one who's obtuse. We are the ones using our brains.

 

[LakeEarth]

All this complaining for what takes about 10-15 minutes max to get used to.

(shrugs)

 

[SantaC]

I suggest all the haters go watch some MP speed runs. They will show you all the advanced moves. They will all prove the haters do not know anything about the game.

Yeah It's insane how many speedruns there are on Metroid Prime, and they are skilled as hell too. This is the best argument that the game works like a charm.

Haters should go here: http://www.planetquake.com/sda/other/MetroidPrime.html

They have beaten prime in about 1 hour!

 

[Mashing]

It's also unfortunate that GameCube has the only controller among the consoles without a digital click to its analog sticks. That would have opened up some alternate schemes as well.

Ehh, that's overrated... I've been tr ying to use that digital click on the left thumbstick in Fable in order to sneak and my finger either 1) slips off the thumbstick or 2) comes off it enough for the game to think I let go of it. Annoying as fuck.

 

[Shompola]

the stick click buttons, the right one to be precise worked just fine as jump button in Enclave. Stick click buttons should be mandatory.

 

[Kon Tiki]

Yeah It's insane how many speedruns there are on Metroid Prime, and they are skilled as hell too. This is the best argument that the game works like a charm.

Haters should go here: http://www.planetquake.com/sda/other/MetroidPrime.html

They have beaten prime in about 1 hour!

www.metroid2002.com also. This site explains the advance moves.

 

[Subitai]

Another reason why I feel no loss passing this game up.


For the record, I can platform just fine on dual analog controls with double jumps and such in Unreal.

 

[Scrow]

ergh... i go to bed for a few hours and this turns into a four page thread? What a bunch of retards.

 

[soundwave05]

Why is this so controversial?

Do you guys get upset if a fighting game doesn't have the standard Street Fighter controls?

Every single FP title has to have the same control layout now? How come you never hear fans of other genres laying down this complaint?

Sheesh, it's not like there isn't 1,000,000,000,000 other generic FPS titles on the market.

 

[bishoptl]

When will some people understand that Metroid is not a freakin FPS?

When it's not in first person and there isn't any shooting.

:lol :lol

 

[DJ Demon J]

If only the GCN controller was intelligently designed to have clickable analog sticks, visor and weapon selection could be devoted to a Click+Direction movement. Or Morph Ball Mode could have been placed on left (movement) stick click. But yea, let's just blindly follow Retro. *shrug*

 

[Kon Tiki]

If only the GCN controller was intelligently designed to have clickable analog sticks, visor and weapon selection could be devoted to a Click+Direction movement. Or Morph Ball Mode could have been placed on left (movement) stick click. But yea, let's just blindly follow Retro. *shrug*

That controller does not exist on Gamecube. Hard to blame retro for Miyamoto's mistake. (IMO that man should never design a controller again).

 

[Hellraizah]

Nintendo : "We will not give you any control options"

Nintendo fans : "We don't need control options anyways"

Nintendo : "We will not give you online gaming"

Nintendo fans : "We don't need online gaming anyways"

Nintendo : "We will lose third party support"

Nintendo fans : "We don't need third party support anyways"


Damn, sounds like a sect . Seriously, if Retro gave the option to control with dual analog, I'm pretty sure 3/4 of all people claiming the Metroid Prime control is perfect would have been using dual analog instead.................. secretly.

 

[Deg]

The people moaning wouldnt buy the game regardless.

 

[explodet]

When will some people understand that Metroid is not a freakin FPS?

When it's not in first person and there isn't any shooting.

:lol :lol

Ha! Too true.

This argument is never going to end, is it?

 

[soundwave05]

If they wanted dual analog in Metroid Prime, Retro would have put it in there.

I don't believe the lack of buttons has anything to do with it.

But seriously what other genre is it expected that every game have the same basic control layout?

How come this is only expected for FPS titles?

I think the argument is totally ridiculous.

 

[Doc Holliday]

For the record, I can platform just fine on dual analog controls with double jumps and such in Unreal

Of course you do, mouse and keyboard makes all teh difference. As far as i know Gamecube doesnt ship with a mouse and keyboard.

 

[Scrow]

If only the GCN controller was intelligently designed to have clickable analog sticks, visor and weapon selection could be devoted to a Click+Direction movement. Or Morph Ball Mode could have been placed on left (movement) stick click. But yea, let's just blindly follow Retro. *shrug*

ummm... wtf? It's Retro's fault for how the GCN controller is designed? Idiot.

 

[Subitai]

Of course you do, mouse and keyboard makes all teh difference. As far as i know Gamecube doesnt ship with a mouse and keyboard.

Neither does Xbox. What are you saying? Did I miss the sarcasm?

Anyway, it's simple. Just click the right stick twice or whatever you have jump set to.

 

[DJ Demon J]

ummm... wtf? It's Retro's fault for how the GCN controller is designed? Idiot.

I'm not blaming Retro for it; although I can see how my post can be construed as such. The first problem I have is with the GCN controller as I detailed above, the 2nd is with the blind support of Retro's "it just wouldn't work with dual analog" excuse.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

I'm glad non of you guys make games. Otherwise; there'd be no room for teh innnovate. So cookie cutter controls / teh same makes you happy? Yeah for you.

 

[Hellraizah]

I'm glad non of you guys make games. Otherwise; there'd be no room for teh innnovate. So cookie cutter controls / teh same makes you happy? Yeah for you.

And I'm glad you don't make video games. You know, there wouldn't be any rooms for OPTIONS.

What I see here is a vast majority of gamers that DON'T want the option in a Metroid 3D game fearing it would control better. What is the point of not having the option ? You could still use the old control method, only people wanting dual analog stick would be happy.

I agree, it would cause a real mess if Metroid Prime 3 came with the dual analog option and that 90% of gamers started using it. It would make some feel pretty dumb about this question (for the first 2 Metroid Prime).

 

[SiegfriedFM]

Standard controls > "innovative" controls that never feel quite right

Oh well, I bought Metroid Prime thinking I could adapt. Being stuck in Phazon Mines for hours it's obvious that I can't. Metroid Prime 2 sales -1. No big deal. I have other games to play this fall.

 

[GSG Flash]

I cringe at the thought of dual analog in MP or MP2:E. This isn't the PS2 or Xbox we're talking about here, this is the cube. The control sticks for the cube are both fine IMO, it's the shoulder buttons that would be the problem. As you all (who have played MP) know that to shoot repetedly, you have to press the A button repetedly. With dual analog, you would have to press the controller's right shoulder button repetedly, and unlike the PS2 and Xbox controllers, the GC's controller's shoulder buttons are pressure sensitive and click when you press them. Since in MP and MP2:E, you can't just hold the button and expect alot of beams to shoot out repetedly like in FPS's, it would be a pain in the ass to repetedly press the clicking shoulder button of the gamecube controller.

And to the guy saying that NOJ is forcing Retro to not include dual analog controls (*cough*juniormember*cough), you're a dumbass.