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[Vorg]

Argue and fight against the assholes, don't cry and run off. Voice your opinion and make solid points. You might just change someone's mind. Nothing worse though than ONLY talking to like minded individuals and not hearing a differing opinion to yours...

No one is crying and running. Some of the more moderate people will simply roll their eyes and close the thread. There's a famous quote by George Bernard Shaw:
I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.

 

[JordanN]

You mean when you bring up Asians by falsely claiming things like "Why do Japanese get a pass for their homogeneity and it's only bad when it's white people asking for it?" as if no one has ever criticized the Japanese for their own racism and nationalism issues,

No one is arguing against their homogeneous population. No one is saying their nation is illegitimate and doesn't deserve borders.

You also have people in this thread that said I believe in racial supremacy. Again, why do they keep ignoring all my posts on Asians? Why do they dance around the subject and get extremely hostile when I ask for proof? Why do they refuse to quote my posts on Asians if I believe people are inferior?

They don't want to because they know these are the double standards and lies that are pushed against me and no one else. I'm not allowed to defend myself, but they have all the right to lie about me? That's not fair at all.

 

[Ke0]

Seriously, mate? I disagreed with him as well, but to suggest they commit suicide is just pathetic.

I was thought the inclusion of underground bunker was enough to indicate I was more making fun of his irrational doomsday fear than actually suggesting he actually kill himself, but you're right. Should have just told him to fuck off

And at the same time comparing him to Hitler.

When did I do that?

 

[JordanN]

I was thought the inclusion of underground bunker was enough to indicate I was more making fun of his irrational doomsday fear than actually suggesting he actually kill himself, but you're right. Should have just told him to fuck off



When did I do that?

You're not fooling anyone dude.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Adolf_Hitler

And the fact you're getting even more hostile when questioned on it tells me something is wrong.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

No one is arguing against their homogeneous population.

This is just factually incorrect. You want to know why people are tired of debating with you? It's stuff like this. A simple Google search proves you wrong.

No one is saying their nation is illegitimate and doesn't deserve borders.

what does this have to do with anything? Who is arguing that any nation is illegitimate and doesn't deserve borders? Seems like a strawman to me. A heavy mischaracterization of someone's argument. But feel free to quote people so we can talk about that, because those viewpoints would be worth calling out.

You also have people in this thread that said I believe in racial supremacy. Again, why do they keep ignoring all my posts on Asians?

I will preface this by saying that I'm not pointing any fingers at you with this statement. It's truly meant to be general.

You realize that someone can be racist against one group without being racist against another, right? Someone can believe black people are beneath white people, but not have thoughts about Asians.

 

[Ke0]

You're not fooling anyone dude.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Adolf_Hitler

And the fact you're getting even more hostile when questioned on it tells me something is wrong.

Ha I genuinely wasn't going for an Hitler analogy, sorry if it looked that way. Hostile? No I'm quite the opposite.

 

[Scopa]

Ha I genuinely wasn't going for an Hitler analogy, sorry if it looked that way. Hostile? No I'm quite the opposite.

"Take a cyanide pill in a bunker"

"Wasn't going for a Hitler analogy"

Come on man.

 

[Ke0]

"Take a cyanide pill in a bunker"

"Wasn't going for a Hitler analogy"

Come on man.

Like I said I genuinely wasn't going for that, hence me apologising. I was legitimately poking fun at doomsday preppers sitting in their bunker scared of the real world. Hitler's death never crossed my mind, I just wrote that out of pure frustration.

 

[Sub_Level]

I don't mind the right wingers who post here. If they bother you that much we still have an ignore function, and I've still seen the mods crack down on especially offensive content/severe trolling.

Things seem pretty centrist here overall. Which I guess in today's climate translates to anyone who doesn't go apeshit 24/7 over politics AKA most normal people lol

 

[JordanN]

This is just factually incorrect. You want to know why people are tired of debating with you? It's stuff like this. A simple Google search proves you wrong.



what does this have to do with anything? Who is arguing that any nation is illegitimate and doesn't deserve borders? Seems like a strawman to me. A heavy mischaracterization of someone's argument. But feel free to quote people so we can talk about that, because those viewpoints would be worth calling out.

I haven't seen a post on this forum that said Japan should stop being 99% Japanese. No one complains about this number. Criticizing Japan's racism or saying the country has issues, is not the same as telling them to stop being homogeneous.

And in regards to doesn't deserve borders, I had debates about the U.S not wanting illegal immigration but was told it was ok for them all to come here.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/trum...l-to-hold-summit-soon.1463368/#post-253316960

Do you consider Mexico an ally?
Do you recognize that they are the ones antagonizing the USA right now with a flood of illegal migrants into America's borders?

With regards to Europe, he wanted to put pressure on them for not paying their fair share into NATO.

Illegal immigration does not bother me. Share the wealth, I say!

And for calling America illegitmate,

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/why-...-people-so-much.1463314/page-4#post-253313355

Being a non-white person, I actually feel sorry for the whites in America. They've lost their own country.

It was never our country homie, we massacred, raped, and exploited the indigenous population here.


The chickens are coming home to roost for our sins, and some people just can't let go.

You realize that someone can be racist against one group without being racist against another, right? Someone can believe black people are beneath white people, but not have thoughts about Asians.

I've been accused of supporting white supremacy/racial genocide. They cherry picked black posts but not my posts on Asian. That's not white supremacy.

 

[bitbydeath]

I don't mind the right wingers who post here. If they bother you that much we still have an ignore function, and I've still seen the mods crack down on especially offensive content/severe trolling.

Things seem pretty centrist here overall. Which I guess in today's climate translates to anyone who doesn't go apeshit 24/7 over politics AKA most normal people lol

Join us in the centre, we could start a bookclub!

Spoiler

I still vote left but just don't want to be associated with the crazies :-/

 

[Deleted member 12837]

I haven't seen a post on this forum that said Japan should stop being 99% Japanese. No one complains about this number.

Because it didn't have anything explicitly to do with the topic of discussion at the time, which in those cases was racial tensions and immigration in America.

In a thread about US gun control, do you expect a proponent of gun control to list every single other country with loose gun laws and specifically argue against their systems, in addition to the US's?

In a thread about US drug policy, would you insist that anyone making an argument also needs to address Thailand's zero tolerance policy and Portugal's radically loose laws?

In a discussion about discrimination against African-Americans, would you tell someone their opinion is less valid because they didn't happen to mention their thoughts concerning the growing problem of racism against Latinos?

I'm guessing not. Because there's completely blowing up the scope of the conversation, making it extremely difficult to have a reasonable discussion or make any points. You can bring those ideas into the conversation by drawing analogies and asking those questions directly, but to try to discredit your opponent's arguments because they didn't address every possible related angle upfront is simply an appeal to hypocrisy.

Criticizing Japan's racism or saying the country has issues, is not the same as telling them to stop being homogeneous.

I'm so tired of this same song and dance.

You keep using this language. No one is "telling" America what to do or not do about their population. You can't tell a country something. It's not some single entity making unilateral decisions.

Race, demographics and immigration are nuanced and complex issues. People are expressing opinions about the effects of these things on the country's culture, and you're trying to simplify it to some high-level statement that just amounts to being meaningless, really.

Criticizing racism in Japan and arguing that their homogeneity is the root cause of several deep cultural issues is exactly the same type of argument people are making in support of multiculturalism in America. It's an argument against their homogeneity. It's a suggestion that it's a bad idea, or that the negative effects are eating away at any positive ones. It's not a demand.

And in regards to doesn't deserve borders, I had debates about the U.S not wanting illegal immigration but was told it was ok for them all to come here.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Phoenix was being sarcastic. Especially considering his follow-ups.

And for calling America illegitmate

That is...quite the interpretation. Look at what he literally said. He stated a fact about early American colonists. They literally did arrive here to an indigenous population that had already been here for thousands of years. They did massacre, rape and exploit those people. If you're tying that to the idea of America being illegitimate, that's your interpretation (which makes it seem like you find some truth in that statement), and not what he actually said. Pointing out that white people immigrated here from Europe is not an accusation of illegitimacy.

Maybe he directly said that later? Did you ask him directly? I'm not about to go read through that entire thread, sorry...

I've been accused of supporting white supremacy/racial genocide. They cherry picked black posts but not my posts on Asian. That's not white supremacy.

A person doesn't have to explicitly declare superiority over every single non-white race, nor feel equal amounts of superiority against each individual other race, to be a white supremacist. What is it with you expecting people to enumerate every possibly scenario?

If someone's argument against being a white supremacist (and again, to be clear, I'm not making that argument towards you personally) is "but wait guys, I'm cool with Asians", then it's not going to convince many folks.

 

[I_D]

They cherry picked black posts but not my posts on Asian. That's not white supremacy.

And this is the perfect example of why I claimed this site is becoming right-leaning:
'Everybody points out how I mention blacks are inferior, but nobody pays attention to me when I say Asians are superior. That's not white-supremacy! It's black-inferiority!'
If you want more context, all you need to do is read this thread.

This dude would have been banned immediately in the old days. That he's still here is a prime example of how this site is becoming more tolerant of bigotry (which, I admit, isn't an exclusively-right issue. It just happens to be more prevalent among the right than in the left).

I mean, hell, this dude legitimately thinks black people are inherently less-intelligent than other races because sub-Saharan Africans lack Neanderthal DNA. It's just ridiculous.
He gives the site a bad name. Yet he's still a major poster in political threads, so when people come across this site, he's what they see.


EDIT: To be clear, I don't want the death-warrants issued by the old mod team. That was also ridiculous.
But this guy doesn't deserve a platform upon which to spew his racist ideals.

 

[JordanN]

Because it didn't have anything explicitly to do with the topic of discussion at the time, which in those cases was racial tensions and immigration in America.

I've said I wanted America to retain its current majority demographics and pointed to countries like Japan saying that Japan gets to stay majority Japanese without outcry. How is it not related?
Again, where's the outrage that Japan is 99% Japanese? It's not a coincidence. Japan every day keeps their borders tight and under control. It cannot change without them not realizing it. But no one is saying anything why Japan gets to stay majority Japanese.

You keep using this language. No one is "telling" America what to do or not do about their population. You can't tell a country something. It's not some single entity making unilateral decisions.

What are you talking about? How you ever heard of the United Nations? Or heads of state? Are you saying it's impossible to communicate with a whole country? What is govenment?

Race, demographics and immigration are nuanced and complex issues. People are expressing opinions about the effects of these things on the country's culture, and you're trying to simplify it to some high-level statement that just amounts to being meaningless, really.

Wait, what? You're making my argument. In fact, I said this stuff before and I got mocked for it.

Criticizing racism in Japan and arguing that their homogeneity is the root cause of several deep cultural issues is exactly the same type of argument people are making in support of multiculturalism in America. It's an argument against their homogeneity. It's a suggestion that it's a bad idea, or that the negative effects are eating away at any positive ones. It's not a demand.

They need to explicitly start saying it then. If I called Mexico racist, what does that have to do with the demographics? How is that pressure for them to become more multicultural? It's not.
Again, Japan is 99% Japanese. Start attacking why aren't they changing this number if you don't believe in it. Just saying "but Japan is racist" doesn't cut it.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Phoenix was being sarcastic. Especially considering his follow-ups.

Oh sure. "Sarcastic"

That is...quite the interpretation. Look at what he literally said. He stated a fact about early American colonists.

Who cares? Is it it not 2018? America has been long founded and established real borders. You can't brow beat one country with its history and ignore the rest of the world.

A person doesn't have to explicitly declare superiority over every single non-white race, nor feel equal amounts of superiority against each individual other race, to be a white supremacist. What is it with you expecting people to enumerate every possibly scenario?

If someone's argument against being a white supremacist (and again, to be clear, I'm not making that argument towards you personally) is "but wait guys, I'm cool with Asians", then it's not going to convince many folks.

This is silly. How is a person white supremacist if they don't believe in superiority over Asians? Like, I said, they cherry picked the hell out of my posts to make me sound like Adolf Hitler. They conveniently and deliberately skirted every single post that I ever made in relation to Asians and other non-white groups. They know they would get caught lying, so they continue to butcher around my posts and say "See! See! JordanN is fascist! Ignore all the facts! These cherry picked and sliced up posts prove it!".

 

[Somebody_Special]

Do the board a favor and never say a word about IQ again.

 

[JordanN]

And this is the perfect example of why I claimed this site is becoming right-leaning:
'Everybody points out how I mention blacks are inferior, but nobody pays attention to me when I say Asians are superior. That's not white-supremacy! It's black-inferiority!'
If you want more context, all you need to do is read this thread.

This dude would have been banned immediately in the old days. That he's still here is a prime example of how this site is becoming more tolerant of bigotry (which, I admit, isn't an exclusively-right issue. It just happens to be more prevalent among the right than in the left).

I mean, hell, this dude legitimately thinks black people are inherently less-intelligent than other races because sub-Saharan Africans lack Neanderthal DNA. It's just ridiculous.
He gives the site a bad name. Yet he's still a major poster in political threads, so when people come across this site, he's what they see.


EDIT: To be clear, I don't want the death-warrants issued by the old mod team. That was also ridiculous.
But this guy doesn't deserve a platform upon which to spew his racist ideals.

Once again, another example of people completely butchering, chopping up, and cherry picking my posts to turn me into a racist.

No posts say this. None, what so ever. I didn't call black people "inherently less-intelligent".

 

[Shiki_]

I've been accused of supporting white supremacy/racial genocide. They cherry picked black posts but not my posts on Asian. That's not white supremacy

I've said I wanted America to retain its current majority demographics and pointed to countries like Japan saying they Japan gets to stay majority Japanese without outcry. How is it not related?
Again, where's the outrage that Japan is 99% Japanese? It's not a coincidence. Japan every day keeps their borders tight and under control. It cannot change without them not realizing it. But no one is saying anything why Japan gets to stay majority Japanese.




What are you talking about? How you ever heard of the United Nations? Or heads of state? Are you saying it's impossible to communicate with a whole country? What is govenment?


Wait, what? You're making my argument. In fact, I said this stuff before and I got mocked for it.





They need to explicitly start saying it then. If I called Mexico racist, what does that have to do with the demographics? How is that pressure for them to become more multicultural? It's not.
Again, Japan is 99% Japanese. Start attacking why aren't they changing this number if you don't believe in it. Just saying "but Japan is racist" doesn't cut it.




Oh sure. "Sarcasm"




Who cares? Is it it not 2018? America has been long founded and established real borders. You can't brow beat one country with its history and ignore the rest of the world.






This is silly. How is a person white supremacist if they don't believe in superiority over Asians? Like, I said, they cherry picked the hell out of my posts to make me sound like Adolf Hitler. They conveniently and deliberately skirted every single post that I ever made in relation to Asians and other non-white groups. They know they would get caught lying, so they continue to butcher around my posts and say "See! See! JordanN is fascist! Ignore all the facts! These cherry picked and sliced up posts prove it!".

White supremacists like asian people just when they fit their narrative.

 

[I_D]

Once again, another example of people completely butchering, chopping up, and cherry picking my posts to turn me into a racist.

No posts say this. None, what so ever. I didn't call black people "inherently less-intelligent".

And your magical ability to misread shows itself once again: "I didn't say the black folk are less intelligent!"
But, yes, you did: Africans have been isolated away from other groups for thousands of years, why it wrong to assume that their intelligence in their environment didn't undergo the same changes?

Here's another, for good luck: What the Bell Curve says, is that by looking at how IQ is distributed in Black populations, they tend to be at the very very end of the curve.

I mean, christ, you cited the The Bell Curve for crying out loud. It doesn't get more racially-motivated than that.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Is it ethno-state time again? We usually get a few days before another thread take over.

 

[JordanN]

White supremacists like asian people just when they fit their narrative.

Which posts did I make says I only like Asians? Go find the source instead of faking it.

And your magical ability to misread shows itself once again: "I didn't say the black folk are less intelligent!"
But, yes, you did: Africans have been isolated away from other groups for thousands of years, why it wrong to assume that their intelligence in their environment didn't undergo the same changes?

Again, you're cherry picking and framing my posts to say something that they are not. It was a long discussion about how each group thrived in their own environments before making contact with each other.

 

[JordanN]

In that same thread, I even called Africans smart. Again, why are you guys lying about me? What did I ever do to you?

In the timeline of human intelligence, "dumb humans" were not created. Quite the opposite. Africans were the first humans to walk the earth. They were our original common ancestors.
It doesn't mean they are "stupid". They evolved perfectly fine for their environment in Africa.

You guys know I'm arguing AGAINST racism but you're choosing to ignore it. Why? What did I ever do to anyone here? Why do you have to keep creating fake posts about me?

 

[Somebody_Special]

Where are those cyanide tablets...

 

[I_D]

I don't have to cherry-pick anything at all.

For anyone who still denies that IQ is genetic [...] Black Americans are 85 IQ. How can this be?

Oh yeah, and studies have shown that even when Koreans are adopted in white families, they still outperform other whites. It is indeed genetic.

And to not stop there, if black IQ really was rising and overtaking whites, that wouldn't explain why we still see big differences in SAT scores. They would have to be over-represented or be at the top, instead of averaging lower scores than both whites and Asians.


And there are MANY more to choose from.
Not only do you not understand how IQ tests work, and cite The Bell Curve (which should be enough of a red-flag in itself), but you also completely miss the point of almost everybody who responded to you. I would claim it's deliberate, but I honestly think you don't even recognize how flawed your reading-comprehension and thinking-skills are, even though there's a multitude of people proving you wrong.

 

[entremet]

At cursory glance it seems like it was infested by the alt right lol. But if you start reading the threads, it's rather mixed. I think the ban hammer is looser, but it allows people to get called out on their crap. So the board is a bit self moderating similar to The Bore.

The Bore, at first glance, appears like another OpaAges, but if you lurk and read, they're mostly decent guys who like to joke a lot.

OldGAF and the ResetEra are much more stricter. That can be good, but it sometimes quashes that self moderating influence and users are trained to report, report, report, instead of just clowning folks.

 

[Crab Shaker]

Oh my. What is going on here. I haven't logged in in a long long time, unrelated to any schism. What is going on here, folks?

 

[JordanN]

By the way @404Ender asked how do you order a country to do something?

The United Nations told Japan to accept more refugees. Again, where's the outrage? Why am I not seeing mass protests and boycotts for why Japan is not opening their borders?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...taking-just-three-in-first-half-idUSKBN1DK0WW

 

[Dr. Claus]

Oh my. What is going on here. I haven't logged in in a long long time, unrelated to any schism. What is going on here, folks?

Going well. There is a bit of a spat going on between 4-5 people that has been raging in multiple threads. Just ignore them and everything should be hunky-dory. How've you been Crab?

 

[I_D]

I was talking about IQ being genetic.

I ignored your post because I made it clear I was done talking to you in that thread, and because a moderator also shut that discussion down.

The above quote, alone, should prove how backward your thinking is.
Dude, you think Neanderthal DNA makes people more intelligent. This is at the same level as claiming that gravity makes things float into the sky. There is no way to combat this type of discussion.

Even when shown your sources are racist propaganda, and you claim to have deleted them in response (which you didn't), and even though you admit they're flawed studies, you still don't consider changing your mind.

So once again, you've proven yourself to be a lost-cause, and I'll stop bothering to fuel your nonsense.




I'll just finish by saying this is the type of thing I was talking about when I said this site is becoming more right-leaning in my earlier posts in this thread.
Again, it's not an exclusively-right issue, but the concept of racial-superiority tends to be a right-leaning claim.

 

[Crab Shaker]

Going well. There is a bit of a spat going on between 4-5 people that has been raging in multiple threads. Just ignore them and everything should be hunky-dory. How've you been Crab?

I've been great. My life is vastly different now than from when I was active on these boards. There were some years I lightly lurked since then too.

I am sad that there are disagreements like this happening now - I used to be so proud of this place and what we did for each other. I'll be watching to see what other convos are going on.

 

[JordanN]

I'll just finish by saying this is the type of thing I was talking about when I said this site is becoming more right-leaning in my earlier posts in this thread.
Again, it's not an exclusively-right issue, but the concept of racial-superiority tends to be a right-leaning claim.

Again, who said anything about racial superiority? You have failed to provide any source and only continue to fake more of them.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I've been great. My life is vastly different now than from when I was active on these boards. There were some years I lightly lurked since then too.

I am sad that there are disagreements like this happening now - I used to be so proud of this place and what we did for each other. I'll be watching to see what other convos are going on.

Eh, honestly that argument/disagreement is not indicative of the site as a whole. I definitely suggest you look at other threads over the course of the next week to get a better idea of how Gaf stands today. The mods will most likely be cleaning up this mess within the next few hours.

Also trying to write up a new FGC OT if you are into that. Hoping to have it up and running by tomorrow.

 

[AfricanKing]

And this is the perfect example of why I claimed this site is becoming right-leaning:
'Everybody points out how I mention blacks are inferior, but nobody pays attention to me when I say Asians are superior. That's not white-supremacy! It's black-inferiority!'
If you want more context, all you need to do is read this thread.

This dude would have been banned immediately in the old days. That he's still here is a prime example of how this site is becoming more tolerant of bigotry (which, I admit, isn't an exclusively-right issue. It just happens to be more prevalent among the right than in the left).

I mean, hell, this dude legitimately thinks black people are inherently less-intelligent than other races because sub-Saharan Africans lack Neanderthal DNA. It's just ridiculous.
He gives the site a bad name. Yet he's still a major poster in political threads, so when people come across this site, he's what they see.


EDIT: To be clear, I don't want the death-warrants issued by the old mod team. That was also ridiculous.
But this guy doesn't deserve a platform upon which to spew his racist ideals.

If anything I'll just add him to my ignore list , we give him to much influence to derail a thread for days so he can spew his nonsense. It's not right I'd rather just ignore that type of person

 

[It's Jeff]

Eh, honestly that argument/disagreement is not indicative of the site as a whole. I definitely suggest you look at other threads over the course of the next week to get a better idea of how Gaf stands today. The mods will most likely be cleaning up this mess within the next few hours.

Also trying to write up a new FGC OT if you are into that. Hoping to have it up and running by tomorrow.

New FGC OT? Yes, please!

 

[Deleted member 12837]

I've said I wanted America to retain its current majority demographics and pointed to countries like Japan saying that Japan gets to stay majority Japanese without outcry. Again, where's the outrage that Japan is 99% Japanese?

I'm not outraged about it, but I have no problem saying that Japan's current position on homogeneity is dangerous for the country's future. My concerns regarding homogeneity are consistent across both the US and Japan. There, are you happy? Please stop claiming everyone is giving Japan a pass now. Thanks. If you continue to do so, I'm just going to drop a quote of this paragraph in the thread.

But no one is saying anything why Japan gets to stay majority Japanese.

Who is blocking America from "retaining its current majority demographics"? Who is preventing or working towards preventing this from happening, and by what means? I'd like to know the specific boogeyman in the US government that you're terrified of, please. You keep throwing out these "no one"s and "everyone"s. Time to get specific.

What are you talking about? How you ever heard of the United Nations? Or heads of state? Are you saying it's impossible to communicate with a whole country?

Is the UN demanding that America reduce its white population? Under what threat of enforcement is this happening?

What is govenment?

In the US, it's hundreds of people at the federal level, if we're limiting to just the 3 branches. Arguably thousands once you start branching out or including state and local level government.

They need to explicitly start saying it then. If I called Mexico racist, what does that have to do with the demographics? How is that pressure for them to become more multicultural? It's not.
Again, Japan is 99% Japanese. Start attacking why aren't they changing this number if you don't believe in it. Just saying "but Japan is racist" doesn't cut it.

You're advocating that people 1) read your mind about what other angles you want to be addressed and 2) for them to spend time going off on a tangent addressing all of them. That's not realistic, dude. If you think Japan is related and want to use it to further your argument, the onus is on you to ask direct, specific questions rather than complain why no one else considered that topic in their responses.

I don't know who is saying anything about Mexico or Japan being racist. I honestly have no idea what the rest of your point there was.

You also ignored my questions that serve as analogies to your method of argumentation. I'd like to know your response to:

In a thread about US gun control, do you expect a proponent of gun control to list every single other country with loose gun laws and specifically argue against their systems, in addition to the US's?

In a thread about US drug policy, would you insist that anyone making an argument also needs to address Thailand's zero tolerance policy and Portugal's radically loose laws?

In a discussion about discrimination against African-Americans, would you tell someone their opinion is less valid because they didn't happen to mention their thoughts concerning the growing problem of racism against Latinos?

Who cares? Is it it not 2018? America has been long founded and established real borders. You can't brow beat one country with its history and ignore the rest of the world.

Good, I'm glad we agree that your initial interpretation of an argument against the US's illegitimacy was misguided.

And I dunno man, you cared enough about a relatively straightforward, uncontroversial statement about American history to start attacking it and arguing against it. Not sure why you're triggered by the statement that white Europeans conquered a series of other indigenous groups in order to take over the Americas ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . It is what it is.

This is silly. How is a person white supremacist if they don't believe in superiority over Asians?

:facepalm:

You are literally parroting the argument used by a known white supremacist:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Taylor

https://splinternews.com/the-alt-rights-asian-exception-is-cribbed-directly-from-1822421189 (ignore the source and the rest of the article, the quote is all that's important)

Similarly, Taylor used his views of Asians as a way to prove that he couldn't possibly be racist, telling me he's always been "bewildered" by charges of white supremacy, given that "I have acknowledged in many ways that Asians are objectively superior to whites."

 

[Scopa]

Guys, please take it to an appropriate thread FFS. It's getting tiresome.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Because it didn't have anything explicitly to do with the topic of discussion at the time, which in those cases was racial tensions and immigration in America.

In a thread about US gun control, do you expect a proponent of gun control to list every single other country with loose gun laws and specifically argue against their systems, in addition to the US's?

In a thread about US drug policy, would you insist that anyone making an argument also needs to address Thailand's zero tolerance policy and Portugal's radically loose laws?

In a discussion about discrimination against African-Americans, would you tell someone their opinion is less valid because they didn't happen to mention their thoughts concerning the growing problem of racism against Latinos?

I'm guessing not. Because there's completely blowing up the scope of the conversation, making it extremely difficult to have a reasonable discussion or make any points. You can bring those ideas into the conversation by drawing analogies and asking those questions directly, but to try to discredit your opponent's arguments because they didn't address every possible related angle upfront is simply an appeal to hypocrisy.



I'm so tired of this same song and dance.

You keep using this language. No one is "telling" America what to do or not do about their population. You can't tell a country something. It's not some single entity making unilateral decisions.

Race, demographics and immigration are nuanced and complex issues. People are expressing opinions about the effects of these things on the country's culture, and you're trying to simplify it to some high-level statement that just amounts to being meaningless, really.

Criticizing racism in Japan and arguing that their homogeneity is the root cause of several deep cultural issues is exactly the same type of argument people are making in support of multiculturalism in America. It's an argument against their homogeneity. It's a suggestion that it's a bad idea, or that the negative effects are eating away at any positive ones. It's not a demand.



I'm going to go out on a limb and say Phoenix was being sarcastic. Especially considering his follow-ups.



That is...quite the interpretation. Look at what he literally said. He stated a fact about early American colonists. They literally did arrive here to an indigenous population that had already been here for thousands of years. They did massacre, rape and exploit those people. If you're tying that to the idea of America being illegitimate, that's your interpretation (which makes it seem like you find some truth in that statement), and not what he actually said. Pointing out that white people immigrated here from Europe is not an accusation of illegitimacy.

Maybe he directly said that later? Did you ask him directly? I'm not about to go read through that entire thread, sorry...



A person doesn't have to explicitly declare superiority over every single non-white race, nor feel equal amounts of superiority against each individual other race, to be a white supremacist. What is it with you expecting people to enumerate every possibly scenario?

If someone's argument against being a white supremacist (and again, to be clear, I'm not making that argument towards you personally) is "but wait guys, I'm cool with Asians", then it's not going to convince many folks.

IDK who you're talking to because they're invisible to me, but rest assured, anyone reading my posts should do so under the assumption that I am being literal.

I did the whole "Japan's aging and negative population growth is the strongest modern argument against nationalism" discussion a month or two ago. I'm not going to revisit that because my thoughts on the matter remain unchanged, and the people who want a whitetopia, ignored.

Guys, please take it to an appropriate thread FFS. It's getting tiresome.

Re-read the thread title. Pages into this thread, people are now actually being sincere, providing a demonstration for all to see the current state of OT.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

By the way @404Ender asked how do you order a country to do something?

The United Nations told Japan to accept more refugees. Again, where's the outrage? Why am I not seeing mass protests and boycotts for why Japan is not opening their borders?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...taking-just-three-in-first-half-idUSKBN1DK0WW

Who in this scenario are you expecting outrage from? GAF members? US citizens? Japanese citizens? I sort of need to know in order to answer you.

The UN wouldn't be asking if they weren't displeased with Japan's position. What more do you want? Weren't you just complaining that "no one" was "telling" Japan to do these things!?!

And also, why should an ordinary US citizen be angry about a non-US country being stubborn about accepting non-US refugees? And not just angry, but enough to start a mass protest and boycott? I thought the conservative position was that we should be focused on issues within our own country?

IDK who you're talking to because they're invisible to me, but rest assured, anyone reading my posts should do so under the assumption that I am being literal.

This is why I don't like how the new GAF software handles blocking. It makes reading through threaded conversations really weird and confusing if others are engaging with the people you blocked. I preferred the old GAF's software that would still show the username for a post or a quote, but just hide it, and also would allow you to reveal them on a post-by-post basis if you wanted to peek.

 

[I_D]

Guys, please take it to an appropriate thread FFS. It's getting tiresome.

OT is half of the site.
If you want to know the state of this forum, these posts are perfectly valid.

Claims have been made that the site is trending toward bigotry [perhaps incorrectly labeled as 'right-leaning' (though, again, it is typically a right-leaning focal-point) but the teams aren't really the issue], and these posts are clear evidence of that fact.

Before the exodus, this site was painfully-left. Reverting to tolerance of racism isn't the correct response, though. Posts like these prove how things that would ordinarily be laughed at are becoming normalized.
I've already posted various examples of discrimination in this thread (though I admit I initially used the word "racism" when I should have included more types of hatred) but these particular posts are about as good of an example as can be.

 

[JordanN]

I'm not outraged about it, but I have no problem saying that Japan's current position on homogeneity is dangerous for the country's future. My concerns regarding homogeneity are consistent across both the US and Japan. There, are you happy? Please stop claiming everyone is giving Japan a pass now. Thanks. If you continue to do so, I'm just going to drop a quote of this paragraph in the thread.

So you're saying for sure you don't want Japan to be a majority country? I want to make sure you're not paying lip service but are sincere.

For example, I posted the article about the UN pressuring Japan into accepting refugees. Will you tell me right now that you want Japan to open their borders and start change their demographics?

Who is blocking America from "retaining its current majority demographics"? Who is preventing or working towards preventing this from happening, and by what means? I'd like to know the specific boogeyman in the US government that you're terrified of, please. You keep throwing out these "no one"s and "everyone"s. Time to get specific.

Democrats have begun to threaten anyone who supports Trump, who himself is trying to defend America's borders. We've seen numerous times. Trump's refusal for open borders = calls for death and violence.

You're advocating that people 1) read your mind about what other angles you want to be addressed and 2) for them to spend time going off on a tangent addressing all of them. That's not realistic, dude. If you think Japan is related and want to use it to further your argument, the onus is on you to ask direct, specific questions rather than complain why no one else considered that topic in their responses.

I don't know who is saying anything about Mexico or Japan being racist. I honestly have no idea what the rest of your point there was.

Instead of talking about whether Japan is racist, start talking why or why it is not ok for Japan to have a 99% homogenous population. That's all I ask for.
We don't have to hear about their work culture. We don't have to hear about racist. I want to hear condemnation for why America can't keep its majority demographics, but Japan can.
Because if Japan can keep their demographics without criticism, then why can't America?

Good, I'm glad we agree that your initial interpretation of an argument against the US's illegitimacy was misguided.

Not quite.

And I dunno man, you cared enough about a relatively straightforward, uncontroversial statement about American history to start attacking it and arguing against it. Not sure why you're triggered by the statement that white Europeans conquered a series of other indigenous groups in order to take over the Americas ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . It is what it is.

America wasn't the only one with a history like this. All countries prior to to 1948 were built on conquest.

You are literally parroting the argument used by a known white supremacist:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Taylor

https://splinternews.com/the-alt-rights-asian-exception-is-cribbed-directly-from-1822421189 (ignore the source and the rest of the article, the quote is all that's important)

Can you point to a source that says he admits he's a white supremacist? People call Trump a Nazi. People call Republicans Nazis.

 

[JordanN]

Who in this scenario are you expecting outrage from? GAF members? US citizens? Japanese citizens? I sort of need to know in order to answer you.

The UN wouldn't be asking if they weren't displeased with Japan's position. What more do you want? Weren't you just complaining that "no one" was "telling" Japan to do these things!?!

And also, why should an ordinary US citizen be angry about a non-US country being stubborn about accepting non-US refugees? And not just angry, but enough to start a mass protest and boycott? I thought the conservative position was that we should be focused on issues within our own country?

So doesn't this mean it's time for boycotts? Sanctions? Avoid buying products associated with the country?

If the United Nations is calling for Japan to open their borders and they refuse, whose side are you on? Since you claim or said you're not ok with Japan's 99% homogeneity, you're going to side with the UN and start pressuring them to do something? After all words are just words. You want action right, instead of just leaving Japan to be 99% Japanese right?

I thought the conservative position was that we should be focused on issues within our own country?

And they tried that and they're getting death threats for it.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

So you're saying for sure you don't want Japan to be a majority country? I want to make sure you're not paying lip service but are sincere.

For example, I posted the article about the UN pressuring Japan into accepting refugees. Will you tell me right now that you want Japan to open their borders and start change their demographics?

Here again with the weird language. I don't "want" Japan to do anything. I don't live in Japan. I don't know anyone who lives there. I'm not actively seeking to change Japanese policy.

If you're asking me what I think Japan should do in order to address some of their very real concerns over their future, then one of my suggestions would be to loosen their extremely tight immigration laws and start accepting more foreigners. Not that they should "open their borders" (you keep getting sucked into black/white binary extremes as the only possible positions). I think bringing in 100+ million non-Japanese (enough to make them lose their majority) would be a poor decision, for numerous reasons.

Democrats have begun to threaten anyone who supports Trump, who himself is trying to defend America's borders. We've seen numerous times. Trump's refusal for open borders = calls for death and violence.

You do know that this is very, very, very, very (probably could use a few more of those) small minority of people making threats, and that there's a huge gap of granularity of ideological position available to believe in between "open borders" and "build the wall", right?

I want to hear condemnation for why America can't keep its majority demographics, but Japan can.
Because if Japan can keep their demographics without criticism, then why can't America?

I've already addressed this.

America wasn't the only one with a history like this. All countries prior to to 1948 were built on conquest.

Yep. And?

Can you point to a source that says he admits he's a white supremacist? People call Trump a Nazi. People call Republicans Nazis.

There's plenty of links to his writings, the publications he's started, what he's said in interviews, etc. He's the founder of American Renaissance. He's a founding member of the National Policy Institute's board (president is Richard Spencer). He contributes to AltRight.com. Read up.

So doesn't this mean it's time for boycotts? Sanctions? Avoid buying products associated with the country?

Is that a typical response for a country refusing to accept refugees? I have no idea, I haven't looked at past occurrences. I don't know what obligations or treaties regarding refugees Japan has or hasn't signed into.

And again, who are you expecting this from? Japanese people? Americans? GAF members?

If the United Nations is calling for Japan to open their borders and they refuse, whose side are you on? Since you claim or said you're not ok with Japan's 99% homogeneity, you're going to side with the UN and start pressuring them to do something?

Yes, I would side with the UN, assuming the conditions above (that Japan agreed to this previously, and is now breaking that agreement) are true.

 

[Helios]

This person in particular is frequently making non-sequitur ****posts like the two above, and even when they do (finally) managed to get banned, two more folks take their place. That Trayvon Martin thread is a good example.

In the meantime, people with "opposing views" find themselves in a Fight Club with those folks.

RIP Alfadawg, who had the time and energy to single-handedly take 'em all on.
RIP BraveOne, who fought the good fight
RIP Dr.Parity, who I barely knew.

I understand where you're coming from but you're looking at it too much from a us vs them POV. There are plenty of users that were on the "opposite side" and got banned because they argued just like BraveOne or Dr.Parity. There are plenty of people that can have a reasonable discussion on "your side" and no body has a problem with them.
There are also a lot of people on the "other side" that throw themselves into a Fight Club when they something, just look at JordanN.

 

[Transhuman]

The Bore, at first glance, appears like another OpaAges, but if you lurk and read, they're mostly decent guys who like to joke a lot.

Which ones aren't decent guys? Asking for a friend.

 

[JordanN]

Here again with the weird language. I don't "want" Japan to do anything. I don't live in Japan. I don't know anyone who lives there. I'm not actively seeking to change Japanese policy.

If you're asking me what I think Japan should do in order to address some of their very real concerns over their future, then one of my suggestions would be to loosen their extremely tight immigration laws and start accepting more foreigners. Not that they should "open their borders" (you keep getting sucked into black/white binary extremes as the only possible positions). I think bringing in 100+ million non-Japanese (enough to make them lose their majority) would be a poor decision, for numerous reasons.

If you're being restrictive with your borders/immigration, it means you're being restrictive with your demographics. That's why Japan is still 99% Japan. They're taking a stance against seeing their demographics change by not just letting in everyone.

What's funny about this, there are still non-Japanese people in Japan. It is not the "ethnostate" people make fun of me for. Japan is just a country where they're just a lot more restrictive and protective of their borders, as opposed to just watching their demographics go into freeslide.

Now, I want the same for America. I'm not saying no non-white person can live there. I think the idea of a 100% White America is just pure imagination. I just want the current demographics to stay where they are.

If people mock me for this, then please, by all means, start mocking Japan's 99%. Tell them they should no longer be majority Japanese. Tell them, it's time to open those borders and kneel before the UN's request to start taking in a lot more immigrants.

That's all I want to hear from you if again, you don't believe Japan should be 99% Japanese.

You do know that this is very, very, very, very (probably could use a few more of those) small minority of people making threats, and that there's a huge gap of granularity of ideological position available to believe in between "open borders" and "build the wall", right?

Are they really a small minority? Hell, I thought the 2016 election showed that Trump supporters are actually outnumbered?
And we're barely in year 2 of Trump's presidency. The democrats are making a point in physically confronting Trump's base.

I wonder if someone told them about Japan's 99% ethnic policy, will Democrats react the same way?

Yep. And?

It's wrong to brow beat and shame America with it. America is still a country regardless of how it came into being.

There's plenty of links to his writings, the publications he's started, what he's said in interviews, etc. He's the founder of American Renaissance. He's a founding member of the National Policy Institute's board (president is Richard Spencer). He contributes to AltRight.com. Read up.

So then show me the one quote where he says he believe in white supremacy.

Is that a typical response for a country refusing to accept refugees? I have no idea, I haven't looked at past occurrences. I don't know what obligations or treaties regarding refugees Japan has or hasn't signed into.

And again, who are you expecting this from? Japanese people? Americans? GAF members?

I expect this from anyone who says they're against Japan remaining 99% Japanese. Again, actions versus words.
Unless, if America up and decided to preserve it's demographics one day, would you ignore it like how you continue to ignore Japan's policies even if you oppose it?

Yes, I would side with the UN, assuming the conditions above (that Japan agreed to this previously, and is now breaking that agreement) are true.

Quick question, when the UN condemns a country, how likely are you to still associate yourself with that place? If you heard the UN condemn or pressure Saudi Arabia, would you still want anything to do with Saudi Arabia?

 

[Deleted member 12837]

And we're barely in year 2 of Trump's presidency. The democrats are making a point in physically confronting Trump's base.

K. You found 1 democratic official. Who said that Trump officials should be confronted publicly. And you didn't even finish reading the article:

Waters, however, did not call for physical harm to the officials or harassment against Trump's supporters.

Just to remind you, your words were "calls for death and violence", you said "Democrats have begun to threaten anyone who supports Trump" (emphasis mine), and also "physically confronting Trump's base". Your example above matches none of those.

Additionally, members of the Liberal Establishment™, like CNN and Chuck Schumer, blasted her for her comments:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/25/poli...-waters-harassment-trump-officials/index.html

and

It's wrong to brow beat and shame America with it. America is still a country regardless of how it came into being.

Except, based on what you quoted in that comment thread, no one said America wasn't a country. Also, it's important to remember the things a country has done, both good and bad. We remember the latter so we don't repeat our mistakes (Slavery, Japanese internment camp, treatment of Native Americans, etc).

So then show me the one quote where he says he believe in white supremacy.

I thought words were just words, and you want actions?

Look, if you've read up on the guy and believe that he's just a misunderstood fellow and not at all a white supremacist, that's fine. It's very informative of the types of rhetoric and opinions that you're comfortable with or that you don't find to be problematic.

I expect this from anyone who says they're against Japan remaining 99% Japanese. Again, actions versus words.

Well great! I guess I'm off the hook then, since, as I've mentioned before, I'm not against Japan here. I don't have an ideological or emotional attachment to Japan's immigration system. I'm not crusading. I gave you my opinion on the matter, because you asked and we're discussing it. That's all.

Unless, if America up and decided to preserve it's demographics one day

In this scenario, how is America enacting its decision?

would you ignore it like how you continue to ignore Japan's policies even if you oppose it?

*ahem*

I'm not outraged about it, but I have no problem saying that Japan's current position on homogeneity is dangerous for the country's future. My concerns regarding homogeneity are consistent across both the US and Japan. There, are you happy? Please stop claiming everyone is giving Japan a pass now. Thanks. If you continue to do so, I'm just going to drop a quote of this paragraph in the thread.

That one is a freebie. If you keep asking the same question in a slightly different way, moving forward, I'm just going to ignore it.

Quick question, when the UN condemns a country, how likely are you to still associate yourself with that place? If you heard the UN condemn or pressure Saudi Arabia, would you still want anything to do with Saudi Arabia?

I already don't have anything to do with Saudi Arabia. Problem solved.

I disagree with your continued insistence that ordinary citizens need to join in on punitive measures against countries that have policies that they happen to disagree. That's a belief of yours, not mine. Please stop regurgitating the same point over and over again. You know where I stand.

 

[SatansReverence]

If anything I'll just add him to my ignore list

Ah, the ignore list. How to prove you've lost a debate in the most childish fashion.

 

[AfricanKing]

Ah, the ignore list. How to prove you've lost a debate in the most childish fashion.

What's your problem , it's there for a reason . If you don't want to ever converse with someone use it. No need for the dickish commentary to be honest

 

[SatansReverence]

What's your problem , it's there for a reason . If you don't want to ever converse with someone use it. No need for the dickish commentary to be honest

Advocating echo chambers for the express purpose of avoiding anyone and anything to challenge your narrative... That's the problem. That is why politics has become such cancer in the last 10-20 years.

You are currently in the process of being Cathy Newman'd

 

[AfricanKing]

Advocating echo chambers for the express purpose of avoiding anyone and anything to challenge your narrative... That's the problem. That is why politics has become such cancer in the last 10-20 years.

You are currently in the process of being Cathy Newman'd

If I was going for a echo chamber I would add much more people to that list , but the user in question hijacks threads and details them into oblivion even the mod clocked on to that . However don't tell me how to manage my account it's sad and pathetic that you took offense to me blocking someone , how morally disengaged much one be to getting emotional over something they have no input or say it . Get over yourself.

And if you think being Cathy Newmaned is a thing come off the internet for a while it's not that deep

 

[SatansReverence]

If I was going for a echo chamber I would add much more people to that list , but the user in question hijacks threads and details them into oblivion even the mod clocked on to that . However don't tell me how to manage my account it's sad and pathetic that you took offense to me blocking someone , how morally disengaged much one be to getting emotional over something they have no input or say it . Get over yourself.

And if you think being Cathy Newmaned is a thing come off the internet for a while it's not that deep

This is what my ignore list looks like

Why? Because I'm actually interested in debate.

You on the other hand won't debate. You resort to ad hominem and when that fails, cover your ears and hum loudly like a child. Which, as I said, is what has lead political discussion the world over to the dumpster fire that is currently is.

Being "Cathy Newman'd" is a term I literally just coined because, just like that train wreck interview with Jordan Peterson all you are doing is deliberately mis categorising an argument, being constantly corrected and now playing the victim card.