Support NeoGAF

[Crossing Eden]

And frankly they set that up by basically saying this lightsabre has its own ties to force and is drawn to Rey that's probably what aided her there.

All lightsabers, (specifically the crystals), have ties to the force. This was not shown at all on the movies but each crystal calls out to the owner, to the point that during the process where they venture off to get the crystals for a saber no one else can even see it until after they've retrieved it.

 

[PowderedToast]

personally my issue isn't actually with rey, it's more with the idea of following another hero's journey arc that features little deviation from what's come before. next to neo or maybe frodo, there are few better examples of the hero's journey in cinema than luke skywalker. its been nailed by THIS series. to some that won't matter, and that's cool. this issue is not the priority when girls and anyone female identifying now get to have rey as a pop culture cinema role model. she is long overdue and the effect will only be positive on that level.

it's definitely exasperated by the OT slavishness of the film's structure, which has been explored to death here already. the way people are predicting her story in the sequels beat for beat is a bit deflating. i only hope that the creative team take some leaps and subvert this.

 

[Princess Carl]

The force didn't magically make her a fighter either. She proved she could handle herself not only in the beginning, but her entire life hinge she was abandoned as a child and had to survive on her own.

Once she got over her fear of Kylo, she was able to beat him by controlling her emotions which gave her a better connection to the force.

Yoda's most important teachings to Luke(what they showed us) wasn't how to twirl a light saber, it was to control your feelings. Rey passed, Kylo failed, but he did take a nowcaster blast to the stomach, killed his father and had his entire plans ruined by a low-level traitor stormtrooper.

Well said.

 

[Astral Dog]

Maybe Finn was the Marty Stu

 

[WrenchNinja]

Maybe Finn was the Marty Stu

Finn is a jobber

 

[Schattenjäger]

Is a Mary Sue necessarily a bad thing?

 

[The One and Done™]

My god....now people are starting to pick apart the OT...

I hate you for doing this Max Landis.

 

[igordennis]

Is a Mary Sue necessarily a bad thing?

That should not even be the point of discussion since this thread is filled to the brim with arguments pointing out why she isn't one (and that the term is not appropriate in any occasion anyhow).

 

[MMarston]

My god....now people are starting to pick apart the OT...

I hate you for doing this Max Landis.

local screenwriter ruins everything

 

[excelsiorlef]

All lightsabers, (specifically the crystals), have ties to the force. This was not shown at all on the movies but each crystal calls out to the owner, to the point that during the process where they venture off to get the crystals for a saber no one else can even see it until after they've retrieved it.

Wicked. Makes my point stronger that she has some connection to that sabre

 

[munchie64]

The audience isn't new to Star Wars like they were with A New Hope. But we get treated as such regardless that from a development standpoint we're stuck in a shallow quagmire that simply leaves the impression that there isn't anything more to the universe than what we saw in the originals.If that's the case then I don't see the point in continuously re releasing the same three part story.

We'll see what people say once Rian Johnson starts goin crazy.

 

[Brakke]

Wicked. Makes my point stronger that she has some connection to that sabre

Yeah I've thought about how much of her beating Kylo at the pull is her doing and how much is the saber's. "The wand chooses the wizard, Harry!" It's a good arrival for her either way. Especially since the saber triggered the visions (and I still think the visions belong to the saber), bringing some kind of sentience to a saber is fun.

Maybe Luke isn't her dad, maybe the saber is her dad (lol).

 

[Azzanadra]

Great post! I would still be hesitant to call her a Mary Sue, but that "force-ex machina" is what really made me consider it. I guess she is just another in a long line generic heroes who has all the luck and skill in the world with a few stumbles thrown in there so she's not too OP. She should have lost the fight with Ren though... While I stilll don't know if I could call her a Mary Sue or not, I do prefer Finn as a character. Before the movie came out and there was a confusion on who the "main" character would be, I assumed it was Finn because he's the guy with the dang lightsaber on the poster! After watching the movie, I WISH Finn was the main character... found him way more interesting than Rey.

... and it would be nice seeing a minority as the main character in such a huge franchise.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yeah I've thought about how much of her beating Kylo at the pull is her doing and how much is the saber's. "The wand chooses the wizard, Harry!" It's a good arrival for her either way. Especially since the saber triggered the visions (and I still think the visions belong to the saber), bringing some kind of sentience to a saber is fun.

Maybe Luke isn't her dad, maybe the saber is her dad (lol).

It also alleviates the Rey is just so good at force

 

[Lesath]

She's fine. A lot of her abilities are just callbacks to previous protagonists. (As in, gee, who else were mechanics with uncanny abilities with droids and vehicles that fucking started their adventure on a desert planet? And also did crazy shit with spaceships and lightsabers with space magic?) I did feel Finn got kind of robbed, but

Spoiler

if it's not some sort of red herring, Rey's either a Kenobi or a Skywalker.

Compare it to the first Hunger Games movie, where the universe literally conveniences itself so that Katniss never has to make a morally difficult decision.

 

[aliengmr]

My god....now people are starting to pick apart the OT...

I hate you for doing this Max Landis.

Look at the bright side, if it had really sucked, nobody would really be discussing it. TFA had an impact, regardless of opinion.

 

[Kinitari]

I think she's great, but I'd be lying if I didn't compare her arc to Finn's and felt that hers was wanting.

Weirdly, and I might get flak for this, I think there were too many "she may be a girl, but she can take care of herself!" moments. It shone a light on something that I feel would have been more impactful if they left it unsaid. Eg. Mad Max.

 

[The One and Done™]

Look at the bright side, if it had really sucked, nobody would really be discussing it. TFA had an impact, regardless of opinion.

Fair point. It's exciting to have another good SW movie. And it's so good in fact that people have created strawoman arguments over it.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

I don't really have anything to add to this discussion other than that I thought her mind control trick on the storm trooper to escape her bindings came way too easily.

That sort of thing makes me think that it's going to be difficult for the writers to not box themselves into a corner, forcing her to "forget" some of her abilities for the sake of what the plot happens to demand.

 

[Speely]

I think she's great, but I'd be lying if I didn't compare her arc to Finn's and felt that hers was wanting.

Weirdly, and I might get flak for this, I think there were too many "she may be a girl, but she can take care of herself!" moments. It shone a light on something that I feel would have been more impactful if they left it unsaid. Eg. Mad Max.

I felt this as well. As a feminist and someone who has issues with the representation of women in movies (and games,) I thought her character spoke for itself without needing to have Finn bark incredulities at us. In fact, the early focus on that was kind of counter-productive. We know she's a girl, and she can handle herself just fine. Devoting lines to it just puts the focus back on gender when it didn't need to be focused upon because she is a strong female lead already.

That said, it IS a cute aspect of Finn's character that he wanted to be so gallant. His obvious adoration for Rey is heart-melting. So I can look past it

 

[Magwik]

My god....now people are starting to pick apart the OT...

I hate you for doing this Max Landis.

It's even funnier to think that the female lead's life (who's name I cannot remember) in American Ultra pretty much revolved and was centered around the the ultra super badass Eisenberg. She leaves her entire life behind for this guy, and everything in her life is centered around him. The entire point of his movie is to save the girl. That is Landis' idea of how to create and write strong female characters.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

I don't really have anything to add to this discussion other than that I thought her mind control trick on the storm trooper to escape her bindings came way too easily.

That sort of thing makes me think that it's going to be difficult for the writers to not box themselves into a corner, forcing her to "forget" some of her abilities for the sake of what the plot happens to demand.

I'm not even sure her being able to use the mind control trick is the issue, it's how it's written that creates the problem. I think there is a version of that scene that would work better without it seeming so random and easy.

The more I think about it, the more I realize most of things the bug me in the movie were probably a small rewrite or two away from being spot on, like a few slight tweaks to the end lightsaber fight and I honestly think most everyones complaints would completely disappear.

I really hope Episode 8's script had a bit more time in the oven.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I thought fighting with lightsaber =/= mundane weapon due to them lacking weight and such

 

[Sixfortyfive]

I'm not even sure her being able to use the mind control trick is the issue, it's how it's written that creates the problem. I think there is a version of that scene that would work better without it seeming so random and easy.

The more I think about it, the more I realize most of things the bug me in the movie were probably a small rewrite or two away from being spot on, like a few slight tweaks to the end lightsaber fight and I honestly think most everyones complaints would completely disappear.

I really hope Episode 8's script had a bit more time in the oven.

I just think back to how often Luke was shown training and struggling when it came to using the force or a lightsaber, or how it took Neo a while before he could tap into God mode in the Matrix, even struggling with the simulation jump program at first.

TFA basically demands Rey to be competent at everything as it happens. There's a missing sense of progression and development for that character, and it's pretty obvious.

 

[Speely]

I just think back to how much Luke was shown training and struggling when it came to using the force or a lightsaber, or how it took Neo a while before he could tap into God mode in the Matrix, even struggling with the simulation jump program at first.

TFA basically demands Rey to be competent at everything as it happens. There's a missing sense of progression and development for that character, and it's pretty obvious.

Sure, if you are assuming a lot about her origins that may or may not be true. TFA made it very obvious that we have a lot to learn about Rey's past.

Edit: For example, it may very well be that Rey is the most powerful Force user we have ever seen. Maybe Luke teaches her to control this in Episode VIII.

Or maybe she is starting off so well-versed in the Force because she is the student that brought Luke's Jedi Academy down, and her story arc involves her unlearning some things she has learned.

Tons of possibilities. I don't think her character is any less interesting because of the immediacy of her power, though.

 

[Boss Doggie]

That's why I am on the fence on calling her a Sue, because we still don't know much about her.

With that said...

One thing I disagree a lot of people say is what Sue traits are. You can still be a perfect character and not be a Sue or a very flawed character and still be a Sue.

Compare Kenshiro vs. a poorly written (which is most frequent) Batman.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Sure, if you are assuming a lot about her origins that may or may not be true. TFA made it very obvious that we have a lot to learn about Rey's past.

Edit: For example, it may very well be that Rey is the most powerful Force user we have ever seen. Maybe Luke teaches her to control this in Episode VIII.

Or maybe she is starting off so well-versed in the Force because she is the student that brought Luke's Jedi Academy down, and her story arc involves her unlearning some things she has learned.

Tons of possibilities. I don't think her character is any less interesting because of the immediacy of her power, though.

I'm not really interested in reaching into the fanfic well to redeem this character.

Maybe TFA works better as a first act of a larger saga than as a standalone work, but until that's proven, I'd rather judge it on its own merits.

 

[JasonUresti]

It was inelegant writing to be sure, though I think it comes more down to them compressing her becoming a hero arc into one movie opposed to Mary Sue-itis. Sloppy, but depending on how things progress it may have been the onlyway to fit their story cleanly into three movies.

The real bullshit is Leia not embracing and sharing a moment with Chewie after he returns from seeing Han die, and instead they ignore each other and Leia tenderly embraces a person she had met the day before. That was a total moment of ignoring internal consistency to focus on their new character to make her the emotional centerpiece when at that stage she had no business being shoehorned into that group of relationships.

 

[Kin5290]

Something people are ignoring is that Rey might not be able to replicate what she did outside of a crisis. Spending time with Luke might help her exercise better control with the Force without needing to go into an Avatar state.

 

[Speely]

I'm not really interested in reaching into the fanfic well to redeem this character.

Maybe TFA works better as a first act of a larger saga than as a standalone work, but until that's proven, I'd rather judge it on its own merits.

Who said anything about fanfic? This is the kind of story that is established as a larger saga from the very beginning. If you would like to ignore that and leave no room for character development between movies, then that's cool, but I would not enjoy a trilogy where everything was explained and resolved in each movie, like hermetically-sealed narratives that just happened to contain the same characters throughout.

Edit: And I don't think most SW fans would either.

 

[Veelk]

You definitely missed the through line of Rey's character arc. The Librarian covered it well, but I'll give it a shot.

Rey realizes the importance of getting BB-8 to the Resistance, but also does not want to abandon what she sees as her future. These are not mutually exclusive ideas. She's both deeply invested in the return of her family, and basically a Resistance/Skywalker fangirl. She dreams of leaving Jakku: It's all over her face when she sees the old woman scavenger cleaning parts across from her, recognizing that's what she might become if she waits long enough. It's there again when she watches a ship leave the planet; her future is out there. But she wants to wait for her family to return. Her internal struggle through the entire film is between those two pulls.

Rey is afraid to embrace her potential and take control of her destiny. That is why she is counting down the days she's been on Jakku, why she still has dolls in her home, why she tells BB-8 she knows all about waiting, and that her family will come to her. It's why she tells Finn she has to go back to Jakku (to his exasperation), why she turns down Han's job offer, why she turns and runs from Maz and from embracing the Force. She's grown up waiting for her future to come to her, and she's afraid to realize it's up to her to take control of it - and it's not what she thought it was going to be.

I think it's apt in that context that all her Force abilities through the film are used to flee, until the end: Fleeing tie fighters in the Falcon, pushing back on Kylo Ren's mind probe, escaping the restraints that held her down. Running, fleeing, hiding.

In reality, it was up to Rey to reach out and take control of her own destiny and it wasn't until she pulls that lightsaber to her at the very end that she really does so. That's why it's such a wonderful moment in the film. She's not just taking the fight to Kylo. She's finally recognizing her own potential, ending her wait, and taking control.

She wakes up.

That's pure gold, ghaleon. I wondered what the purpose of her looking at the old woman was, but now it's obvious. Very well written.

 

[Brutalitops]

I just find her a boring character and the weakest link of the cast.

Kylo Ren remains the character with the most potential for a great story arc in this trilogy. The only way I can see Rey becoming interesting is if she goes to the dark side or something. A lot of her supposed Mary Sue qualities would make a lot of sense if she had the dark side brewing in her.

 

[Speely]

I just find her a boring character and the weakest link of the cast.

Kylo Ren remains the character with the most potential for a great story arc in this trilogy. The only way I can see Rey becoming interesting is if she goes to the dark side or something. A lot of her supposed Mary Sue qualities would make a lot of sense if she had the dark side brewing in her.

When has the protagonist in a SW film ever NOT had the dark side brewing in them? It's a fundamental danger for any Force user, and the threat is only increased in relation to one's power with the Force. Since Rey is obviously strong in it, I would think it's safe to assume the dark side is right there.

Just look at the ferocity with which she beat Kylo down. That was not graceful Jedi focus. That was straight-up aggression.

Edit: I would not be surprised if, in Ep VIII, we learn that Kylo was actually more successful in bringing Rey to the dark side than he might have thought.

Double edit: Look at how Rey seemed to learn (or re-learn?) Force abilities from Kylo when she was captured. She basically mirrored him. Then think about their battle. Everyone thinks she was drawing on the light side, but what if she was doing the exact same thing as before? She is just stronger than Kylo and does it better. Training in this regard means little because she is already a badass at staff combat, and indeed uses Luke's lightsaber like one during the battle.

Rey might just happen to be on the side of the good guys by circumstance. In fact, she was likely PUT on Jakku because she needed to be sequestered. For all we know, she is only as strong as she is BECAUSE of the dark side.

THAT would be very interesting.

 

[BouncyFrag]

Rey discovering a holocron instead of the light saber to clue her into the force and the past would have been badass.

 

[Zekes!]

The real bullshit is Leia not embracing and sharing a moment with Chewie after he returns from seeing Han die, and instead they ignore each other and Leia tenderly embraces a person she had met the day before. That was a total moment of ignoring internal consistency to focus on their new character to make her the emotional centerpiece when at that stage she had no business being shoehorned into that group of relationships.

Actually this really bugged me too. Chewie and Leia just walk right past each other and I thought it was kind of awkward

No doubt everyone is distraught a certain level, but that scene should have been between Chewie and Leia

 

[PayOffWizard]

Ok so this may sound really dumb but I had an idea about Rey.

This is all based on the theory that snoke is darth plagueis. Anyway I was reading this from the plagueis wiki page and this possibility of to me.
From the wiki - According to Sidious, Plagueis was powerful enough that he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life and keep those he cared about from dying, a precious knowledge that awarded him the epithet of "the Wise."[2] Plagueis, however, also developed a belief that the Force could "strike back" at him for his power.

What is Rey is a being that plagueis created from pure force?
..... Then that baby was so powerful but on the light side that plagueis was unable to kill it so stranded it on a random planet.

Probably a dumb idea but it would explain a lot.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Ok so this may sound really dumb but I had an idea about Rey.

This is all based on the theory that snoke is darth plagueis. Anyway I was reading this from the plagueis wiki page and this possibility of to me.
From the wiki - According to Sidious, Plagueis was powerful enough that he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life and keep those he cared about from dying, a precious knowledge that awarded him the epithet of "the Wise."[2] Plagueis, however, also developed a belief that the Force could "strike back" at him for his power.

What is Rey is a being that plagueis created from pure force?
..... Then that baby was so powerful but on the light side that plagueis was unable to kill it so stranded it on a random planet.

Probably a dumb idea but it would explain a lot.

I'm pretty sure that's how Anakin came to be.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Sure, if you are assuming a lot about her origins that may or may not be true. TFA made it very obvious that we have a lot to learn about Rey's past.

Edit: For example, it may very well be that Rey is the most powerful Force user we have ever seen. Maybe Luke teaches her to control this in Episode VIII.

Or maybe she is starting off so well-versed in the Force because she is the student that brought Luke's Jedi Academy down, and her story arc involves her unlearning some things she has learned.

Tons of possibilities. I don't think her character is any less interesting because of the immediacy of her power, though.

Hey, she may very well be the most powerful Jedi ever and taught by Luke and had her memory wiped, but we don't know that. We know nothing. That's a part of the problem. Her character is dull and such a big part of that character is probably being saved for another movie. Compare to Furiosa where we get all that we need about her background to relate to her.

 

[Kin5290]

I found Rey to be the most interesting of the new cast, and not for lack of trying by the others. She's certainly better formed than Poe Dameron, who is little more than "Cool guy who flies good".

But then we're pretty well conditioned to like Cool Guys Who Fly Good.

 

[Peru]

Hey, she may very well be the most powerful Jedi ever and taught by Luke and had her memory wiped, but we don't know that. We know nothing. That's a part of the problem. Her character is dull and such a big part of that character is probably being saved for another movie. Compare to Furiosa where we get all that we need about her background to relate to her.

Dull? The movie expertly set up several mysteries connected to her - she's deeply conflicted about her origins, feeling some sort of loyalty/connection to her family or whoever left her on the planet and at the same time wanting to get away from it. Her life on Jakku itself is detailed - scavenging, selling junk, living alone, fending for herself - but how she grew into it is a fascinating unknown. We can read a lot about her from how she reacts to the friendship with Finn (and others) forming - and the brilliant moments when she realizes some of what she's got and enters into a battle of minds with Kylo - in other words, she's a meaty character, subtly acted, and still with a lot of mystery central to her path and the movies' overall narrative. Basically she's the best character in the movie, a role with heft, and calling her dull because there are still things we don't know is baffling. It screams looking for things to criticise rather than sound arguments.

It's downright ridiculous to compare it to Furiosa - a 100% different character in a 100% different movie, just because she's a woman.

It's also no surprise that when you look at the people who spread this criticism there's a big overlap with people who identify as gamergaters.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Dull? The movie expertly set up several mysteries connected to her - she's deeply conflicted about her origins, feeling some sort of loyalty/connection to her family or whoever left her on the planet and at the same time wanting to get away from it. Her life on Jakku itself is detailed - scavenging, selling junk, living alone, fending for herself - but how she grew into it is a fascinating unknown. We can read a lot about her from how she reacts to the friendship with Finn (and others) forming - and the brilliant moments when she realizes some of what she's got and enters into a battle of minds with Kylo - in other words, she's a meaty character, subtly acted, and still with a lot of mystery central to her path and the movies' overall narrative. Basically she's the best character in the movie, a role with heft, and calling her dull because there are still things we don't know is baffling. It screams looking for things to criticise rather than sound arguments.

It's downright ridiculous to compare it to Furiosa - a 100% different character in a 100% different movie, just because she's a woman.

It's also no surprise that when you look at the people who spread this criticism there's a big overlap with people who identify as gamergaters.

You do people can disagree or flat out just not like a character, right?

 

[Veelk]

You do people can disagree or flat out just not like a character, right?

And that's fine, but if you're going to use it to describe something more objectively measurable, like her place in the plot, then it's similarly subject to criticism. Much of what we're trying to do here is look at what Rey is, rather than whether we like her or not.

 

[Regulus Tera]

People call the same type of male characters a Gary Stu. It's not really just reserved for women. See how people talk about Kirito for instance.

But Kirito is an awfully written harem protagonist that serves as a self-insert for the audience in lieu of an actual character.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

And that's fine, but if you're going to use it to describe something more objectively measurable, like her place in the plot, then it's similarly subject to criticism. Much of what we're trying to do here is look at what Rey is, rather than whether we like her or not.

But what "Rey is" will quite different for everybody. I don't really think there's a "objective" place for her in plot besides something like "she fight Kylo at the end" That's why you have people disagreeing using the reasoning that her skills are actually consistent with this universe and plot while people say the opposite.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

I just think back to how often Luke was shown training and struggling when it came to using the force or a lightsaber, or how it took Neo a while before he could tap into God mode in the Matrix, even struggling with the simulation jump program at first.

TFA basically demands Rey to be competent at everything as it happens. There's a missing sense of progression and development for that character, and it's pretty obvious.

Oh I agree with that completely, I'm just saying had they written most of those scenes slightly different, or had small scenes earlier that paid off better with Jedi mind trick/lightsaber stuff, we wouldn't have this "Mary Sue" thread. I think the script isn't as polished as it could have been, and Rey's powers seem a bit too convenient/struggle free for some because of that.

 

[ClayKavalier]

I found Rey to be the most interesting of the new cast, and not for lack of trying by the others. She's certainly better formed than Poe Dameron, who is little more than "Cool guy who flies good".

But then we're pretty well conditioned to like Cool Guys Who Fly Good.

Definitely, Poe's appearances felt pretty inconsequential, I guess he'll be a big deal in the next movies but in this one I wish they would have cut him and spent more time on the other characters. Finn and Rey are cool, the bad guy got a little uncomfortably close to reminding me of Hayden Christensen in the prequels with the whiny angst but I guess he's not bad.

Not really sure how people could see Rey as a Mary Sue power-fantasy-fulfillment character. For the fight at the end we already saw her beat the shit out of people before. For the Force tricks she sees the bad guy mind control and manipulate stuff before she tries it, plus like other people have pointed out we don't know anything about her backstory.

I did think it was kind of lame she was able to fly the Falcon so well, being able to fly it was fine but she was really threading the needle a few times. Apparently some prequel book explains she used a simulator to train, would have been nice to see in the movie. I did like how she put on the flight helmet while she was hanging out before she met BB.

 

[Veelk]

But what "Rey is" will quite different for everybody. I don't really think there's a "objective" place for her in plot besides something like "she fight Kylo at the end" That's why you have people disagreeing using the reasoning that her skills are actually consistent with this universe and plot while people say the opposite.

Yeah, but it's mere disagreement doesn't mean the subject itself is subjective. Otherwise, there would never be any disagreement over science, which there obviously is quite a bit of, even among scientists.

Once you have a set definition for whatever your talking about, you should be able to measure whether Rey is that or not. My goal was mostly to discard Mary Sue as a word because that is a word percieved to be more objective than it actually is. And the person before that was arguing that we don't know anything about Rey's character, which I think is pretty objectively false as we are informed throughout the movie. Dull, interesting, that's up to you, but we know things about her and possible things based on what the movie presents. That's objective information placed within the film.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Yeah, but it's mere disagreement doesn't mean the subject itself is subjective. Otherwise, there would never be any disagreement over science, which there obviously is quite a bit of, even among scientists.

Once you have a set definition for whatever your talking about, you should be able to measure whether Rey is that or not. My goal was mostly to discard Mary Sue as a word because that is a word percieved to be more objective than it actually is. And the person before that was arguing that we don't know anything about Rey's character, which I think is pretty objectively false as we are informed throughout the movie. Dull, interesting, that's up to you, but we know things about her and possible things based on what the movie presents. That's objective information placed within the film.

Sure, I just took issue with "calling her dull is baffling" comment because I seen a lot people try disregard criticism of her and that's just really weird to me. The actual topic of this thread like you said is not really subjective.

 

[Sheroking]

Harry Potter isn't unusually skilled lmao. His issue is the overabundance of Deus ex machina to solve his conflicts.

It's interesting how many people think this. Harry is explicitly exceptionally referred to as exceptionally talented from beginning through end, though his studies are constantly being derailed.

He is the #1 DADA student at Hogwarts, years ahead of every other student in defensive curses and magics, has command of spells in his fourth year that are referred to as 7th year level.

He was never meant to be "the chosen one" in the sense that he's as powerful or talented as Voldemort, but he is exceptional as a Wizard.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Why are people here suddenly screaming sexism when Sue accusations are given? People have been calling things they see as Sues regardless of gender for ages. I mean seriously, conflating it with Gaters?

Calling Rey a Mary Sue is pretty much holding up a sign that says you don't know anything about analyzing story or plot, and that you hold female protagonists to a completely different set of standards than a male protagonist. She is no more perfect or unusually skilled than Luke Skywalker or Harry Potter.

Except for the fact that Luke Skywalker was crap at the whole Jedi thing prior to Yoda, or that Harry Potter does indeed acknowledge that from all the shit that has happened to him he knows he got lucky and that he did try to hone his shit.

I'm not considering Rey as a Sue yet but if they don't pick her up on her shtick she will be heading there.