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[Schweinehund]

I didn't think she was a Mary Sue, but I did think her personality was non existent and the plot drove her instead of her making choices. I don't know about her power growth either, it seemed very opportunistic, that or Kylo Ren is super jobber level. Even though Luke wasn't really exactly full of personality either, I felt like he had more initiative.

I liked everyone else though. I want Finn as a jedi, Boyega did a great job. Po was good as well. The humor was mostly on spot, the space fights were amazing and I liked tonfa trooper and Kylo vs Finn/Rey.

The movie was fun though I felt it relied on old characters a bit too much, though it would make sense that Luke is central to the story considering his status in the force. I hope as we move toward the end of the trilogy the old characters are phased out more.

I also hope they come up with more antagonists. Emperor-lite and Kylo Ren aren't doing it for me. The First Order felt like it toppled over super easy, I dislike that we essentially got another Deathstar and story beats felt overly similar to A New Hope.

 

[Kin5290]

How in the hell was her personality nonexistent?

She certainly has more of a personality than your average farmboy.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

Calling Rey a Mary Sue is pretty much holding up a sign that says you don't know anything about analyzing story or plot, and that you hold female protagonists to a completely different set of standards than a male protagonist. She is no more perfect or unusually skilled than Luke Skywalker or Harry Potter.

Luke Skywalker and Harry Potter were sheltered from the world by family members who were trying to prevent their growth/destiny.

All though she was tucked away in a remote part of the galaxy on a desert planet, Rey has had to survive on her own her entire life. In that time she has gained skills (fighting, repair, etc..) that will help her once she leaves the planet.

The only thing she need to learn was to look forward and not in the past. Once she did that and got over her debilitating fear of Kylo (because of her vision) she was able to have such a strong connection with the force. Which matches up with what Yoda told Luke (staying calm is more powerful than being emotional)

 

[MikeDown]

I found Rey to be the most interesting of the new cast, and not for lack of trying by the others. She's certainly better formed than Poe Dameron, who is little more than "Cool guy who flies good".

But then we're pretty well conditioned to like Cool Guys Who Fly Good.

Thankyou!!!! I have been shouting this forever. I think the main reason he gets away with this is because he isn't the main character, with a lot less screen time then Rey. For me what makes Rey so interesting is that there is so little we know about her character. Though that is still no excuse for her poor development throughout the film.

Calling Rey a Mary Sue is pretty much holding up a sign that says you don't know anything about analyzing story or plot, and that you hold female protagonists to a completely different set of standards than a male protagonist. She is no more perfect or unusually skilled than Luke Skywalker or Harry Potter.

I would say the contrary, those crying sexism conveniently ignore most of Luke's character development in a New Hope & Empire. I would even argue it is a tinge sexist to downplay some of the things Rey was able to accomplish in The Force Awakens because "we can't have a woman being any more powerful then Luke". What Rey was able to accomplish in TFA makes a certain amount of sense given the context, the problem is it is presented very poorly & only when the plot says she has too.

 

[Lionheart1337]

Was not a fan and all and thought she did a disservice to people who actually enjoy and know how to write good female characters. Shame. Don't get me started on Finn.

 

[-COOLIO-]

I think she's great, but I'd be lying if I didn't compare her arc to Finn's and felt that hers was wanting.

Weirdly, and I might get flak for this, I think there were too many "she may be a girl, but she can take care of herself!" moments. It shone a light on something that I feel would have been more impactful if they left it unsaid. Eg. Mad Max.

i completely agree. they were too overt about rey being able to handle things despite being a girl. It would have been better if she just handled things and her gender wasn't emphasized. It sends a stronger message, especially to the kids.

 

[GhaleonEB]

i completely agree. they were too overt about rey being able to handle things despite being a girl. It would have been better if she just handled things and her gender wasn't emphasized. It sends a stronger message, especially to the kids.

Agree. I think they did it right in the scene where Finn runs to rescue her from the ambush, and by the time he gets there she's thrashed the two attackers. That was showing, rather than telling us, she can take care of herself and should have been sufficient.

Her later line to Han ("I think I can take care of myself.") was a little too on the nose. But then it also fit into her character's over confidence.

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

Agree. I think they did it right in the scene where Finn runs to rescue her from the ambush, and by the time he gets there she's thrashed the two attackers. That was showing, rather than telling us, she can take care of herself and should have been sufficient.

Her later line to Han ("I think I can take care of myself.") was a little too on the nose. But then it also fit into her character's over confidence.

The moments between her and Finn are my favourite. He gets knocked out, she goes to help him and he asks if she's okay lol. I think that line was find, it's just showing how much she believes in herself, and then when she fails she realizes she can't do everything on her own.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Agree. I think they did it right in the scene where Finn runs to rescue her from the ambush, and by the time he gets there she's thrashed the two attackers. That was showing, rather than telling us, she can take care of herself and should have been sufficient.

while that scene was nice and i did appreciate it, i think it would have been even cooler if it wasn't presented as a gag. seeing finns befuddled expression when rey fights off her attackers still sort of says "whoa, she fought off those attackers despite being a girl, how unexpected!". and that's honestly great from a deprogramming gender stereotypes point of view. but if kids who have yet to have had these stereotypes programmed into them instead saw a scene without finn and a tooth and nail fight between her and her attackers witth suspense and cleverness where she doesnt just outright whoop them without trying. i think that would have been even cooler.

its a nitpick but that would have been my ideal.

on the other hand:

The moments between her and Finn are my favourite. He gets knocked out, she goes to help him and he asks if she's okay lol. I think that line was find, it's just showing how much she believes in herself, and then when she fails she realizes she can't do everything on her own.

this and the hand holding thing totally worked for me as gags, just not the fight scene.

 

[Veelk]

i completely agree. they were too overt about rey being able to handle things despite being a girl. It would have been better if she just handled things and her gender wasn't emphasized. It sends a stronger message, especially to the kids.

Lets keep in mind that Finn didn't ever say anything about her being a girl. He saw a person being beaten up, and he ran to help. Lets not forget that he is sympathetic to the plight of the helpless as established in the opening's massacre. He's a naturally empathetic guy, so it could be that if he sees anyone being hurt, he'll run to help. Afterwards, he grabbed her hand as a way of making her run with him, but that could have been just a ally mentality gesture as well, which was later reflected by her taking his hand as a way to visually communicate that they are now friends. Why do we assume he wouldn't have done the same thing with Poe? And why do we assume that that Rey thought Han was being sexist with his initial offer of a gun, when part of Rey's characterization is that she tries to be as isolated and independent as possible to everyone? I don't know if SW is a gender equal society at this point, but the fact that female characters occupy all positions (from X-wing fighters, to the First order operators, and the Storm Trooper commanders) make it a plausible possibility.

So if the SW world isn't gender slanted, it is us, the audience, that are. Because we are a sexist society. The fact that we see these scenes and think girl power is being forced underlies the fact that we don't see many girls with power. That might make "Look, the girl can take care of herself" scenes necessary, because even if the SW is gender neutral, we clearly do come in with sexist assumptions. Perhaps when we live in a world that doesn't immediately assume women being the weaker class of people, yeah, not calling attention to it might be the better choice. But you can't ignore the fact that it might be necessary to communicate to people that Rey IS a badass that can take care of herself, which many of us would naturally assume she isn't without scenes that directly set up the viewers to fall into those assumptions before directly defying them. You might think it's unnecessary, but honestly, how do you know you wouldn't have fallen into those traps without it?

 

[excelsiorlef]

while that scene was nice and i did appreciate it, i think it would have been even cooler if it wasn't presented as a gag. seeing finns befuddled expression when rey fights off her attackers still sort of says "whoa, she fought off those attackers despite being a girl, how unexpected!". and that's honestly great from a deprogramming gender stereotypes point of view. but if kids who have yet to have had these stereotypes programmed into them instead saw a scene without finn and a tooth and nail fight between her and her attackers witth suspense and cleverness where she doesnt just outright whoop them without trying. i think that would have been even cooler.

its a nitpick but that would have been my ideal.

But there are next to no kids who don't have that programmed in. Gender roles start so early in life.

Deprogramming is a better plan right now.

I loved those moments because it felt likevthe creators were letting people like me know that they aren't going to drop the ball on Rey. On top it was poking fun at gender roles. Loved it

Lets keep in mind that Finn didn't ever say anything about her being a girl. He saw a person being beaten up, and he ran to help. Lets not forget that he is sympathetic to the plight of the helpless as established in the opening's massacre. He's a naturally empathetic guy, so it could be that if he sees anyone being hurt, he'll run to help. Afterwards, he grabbed her hand as a way of making her run with him, but that could have been just a ally mentality gesture as well, which was later reflected by her taking his hand as a way to visually communicate that they are now friends. Why do we assume he wouldn't have done the same thing with Poe? And why do we assume that that Rey thought Han was being sexist with his initial offer of a gun, when part of Rey's characterization is that she tries to be as isolated and independent as possible to everyone? I don't know if SW is a gender equal society at this point, but the fact that female characters occupy all positions (from X-wing fighters, to the First order operators, and the Storm Trooper commanders) make it a plausible possibility.

So if the SW world isn't gender slanted, it is us that are. Which is fine, because we are a sexist society. Which might make "Look, the girl can take care of herself" scenes necessary, because even if the SW is gender neutral, we would come in with sexist assumptions. Defying those assumptions directly while keeping it naturalistic within the world itself is necessary to show that, yes, the society is actually gender nuetral. Perhaps when we live in a world that doesn't immediately assume women being the weaker class of people, yeah, not calling attention to it might be the better choice. But you can't ignore the fact that it might be necessary to communicate to people that Rey IS a badass that can take care of herself, which many of us would naturally assume she isn't without that scene, and it wouldn't be because SW is depicting sexist assumptions, but us. It's very possible we really did need those scenes without us knowing it.

Even better stated

 

[-COOLIO-]

But there are next to no kids who don't have that programmed in. Gender roles start so early in life.

Deprogramming is a better plan right now.

I loved those moments because it felt likevthe creators were letting people like me know that they aren't going to drop the ball on Rey. On top it was poking fun at gender roles. Loved it



Even better stated

you might be right, fair enough.

 

[Cybit]

I don't really have anything to add to this discussion other than that I thought her mind control trick on the storm trooper to escape her bindings came way too easily.

That sort of thing makes me think that it's going to be difficult for the writers to not box themselves into a corner, forcing her to "forget" some of her abilities for the sake of what the plot happens to demand.

Pretty much this. The fight scene with Kylo was fine, and piloting has a force ex machina history.

I felt this as well. As a feminist and someone who has issues with the representation of women in movies (and games,) I thought her character spoke for itself without needing to have Finn bark incredulities at us. In fact, the early focus on that was kind of counter-productive. We know she's a girl, and she can handle herself just fine. Devoting lines to it just puts the focus back on gender when it didn't need to be focused upon because she is a strong female lead already.

That said, it IS a cute aspect of Finn's character that he wanted to be so gallant. His obvious adoration for Rey is heart-melting. So I can look past it

It makes the scene where he tries to protect Rey from Kylo the sequence sends chills down my spine. The look he shoots Kylo after he watches Han die and then watches Rey be KO'd; when he feels he's responsible for all of this - Boyega just nails the facial expressions perfectly. He does noble naive guilty gallantry somehow.

They nailed the casting of Rey / Finn / Ren so so so well.

 

[Damerman]

Weirdly, and I might get flak for this, I think there were too many "she may be a girl, but she can take care of herself!" moments. It shone a light on something that I feel would have been more impactful if they left it unsaid. Eg. Mad Max.

it might because I'm less perceptive, but it was always rey rescuing finn, and the movie never made a big deal of it. I don't really remember any scenes where rey's independeced was portrayed in a ham-fisted fashion.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Lets keep in mind that Finn didn't ever say anything about her being a girl.

very true, the movie never says explicitly says anything about her being a girl, but the connotations are fairly obvious. a girl beats up some guys and crowd chuckles when they see finns confused face, the meaning there is fairly obvious.

 

[Damerman]

Lets keep in mind that Finn didn't ever say anything about her being a girl. He saw a person being beaten up, and he ran to help. Lets not forget that he is sympathetic to the plight of the helpless as established in the opening's massacre. He's a naturally empathetic guy, so it could be that if he sees anyone being hurt, he'll run to help. Afterwards, he grabbed her hand as a way of making her run with him, but that could have been just a ally mentality gesture as well, which was later reflected by her taking his hand as a way to visually communicate that they are now friends. Why do we assume he wouldn't have done the same thing with Poe? And why do we assume that that Rey thought Han was being sexist with his initial offer of a gun, when part of Rey's characterization is that she tries to be as isolated and independent as possible to everyone? I don't know if SW is a gender equal society at this point, but the fact that female characters occupy all positions (from X-wing fighters, to the First order operators, and the Storm Trooper commanders) make it a plausible possibility.

So if the SW world isn't gender slanted, it is us, the audience, that are. Because we are a sexist society. The fact that we see these scenes and think girl power is being forced underlies the fact that we don't see many girls with power. That might make "Look, the girl can take care of herself" scenes necessary, because even if the SW is gender neutral, we clearly do come in with sexist assumptions. Perhaps when we live in a world that doesn't immediately assume women being the weaker class of people, yeah, not calling attention to it might be the better choice. But you can't ignore the fact that it might be necessary to communicate to people that Rey IS a badass that can take care of herself, which many of us would naturally assume she isn't without scenes that directly set up the viewers to fall into those assumptions before directly defying them. You might think it's unnecessary, but honestly, how do you know you wouldn't have fallen into those traps without it?

agreed with this.

 

[excelsiorlef]

you might be right, fair enough.

I know for me it put my at ease because it let me know they were aware of all the pitfalls

 

[Lautaro]

Of course, she's a Mary Sue... just like Luke and Anakin. This franchise runs on Mary Sues, it may be enjoyable but Star Wars is pretty much a corny space opera (light vs darkness, chosen ones, etc), I think if people could come to terms with that, they would enjoy them more (I know I do at least).

 

[Damerman]

very true, the movie never says explicitly says anything about her being a girl, but the connotations are fairly obvious. a girl beats up some guys and crowd chuckles when they see finns confused face, the meaning there is fairly obvious.

true, but it could also be that it was just one person who handily beat two aggressors. some people could interpret his reaction as him being surprised that she took on two big baddies on her own, regardless of gender. i don't think the reaction is heavily guided towards sexist notions. it's open enough in my opinion.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

With the amount of posts about this film, you'd think it were a Shakespeare production and people are analysing the literary devices.

 

[Veelk]

very true, the movie never says explicitly says anything about her being a girl, but the connotations are fairly obvious. a girl beats up some guys and crowd chuckles when they see finns confused face, the meaning there is fairly obvious.

That's the exact point I'm making. The connotations are there because of us, the sexist audience, not the sexist characters. The fact that we assume that this was Finn trying to save the girl rather than Finn trying to save the person reflects on the assumptions we're projecting about the situation rather than what is actually happening.

So if we are the ones projecting the gender roles onto the characters because of the set up, it's very possible that we would have fallen into the trappings of sexism if they weren't directly defied. It's easy pretend this stuff doesn't affect you without you knowing, but it's simply not true. Honestly, if Rey wasn't a girl, and that scene played out exactly the same way, rather than thinking the scene was depicting "Girl power", we might just have been thinking that the scene is establishing that the character is a skilled fighter, able to take on two guys that had the element of surprise on him at once.

 

[Brakke]

it might because I'm less perceptive, but it was always rey rescuing finn, and the movie never made a big deal of it. I don't really remember any scenes where rey's independeced was portrayed in a ham-fisted fashion.

The whole hand-holding joke. Where Finn keeps trying to grab Rey's hand and lead her and eventually she snaps at him.

I dunno if that was ham-fisted assertion of independence but it was definitely conspicuous.

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

this and the hand holding thing totally worked for me as gags, just not the fight scene.

O yeah lol, the hand holding. Every time she's just like what are you doing? Stop that shit.

I honestly think they have really good on screen chemistry.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The whole hand-holding joke. Where Finn keeps trying to grab Rey's hand and lead her and eventually she snaps at him.

I dunno if that was ham-fisted assertion of independence but it was definitely conspicuous.

It's also something we se all the time in movies only usually the girl just lets herself be dragged. It was a great gag because it was poking fun at that trope

 

[Brakke]

It's also something we se all the time in movies only usually the girl just lets herself be dragged. It was a great gag because it was poking fun at that trope

Yeah I liked it. Rey offering Finn her hand to help him up later makes it for me.

 

[Gorillaz]

Finn is a jobber

Im very back and forth on Finn and what he actually is in this movie. Other then starkiller details like, what is his purpose going forward other than being the "heart of the movie"

Boyega pretty much doing the heavy lifting with that character/script

 

[aliengmr]

Why are people here suddenly screaming sexism when Sue accusations are given? People have been calling things they see as Sues regardless of gender for ages. I mean seriously, conflating it with Gaters?



Except for the fact that Luke Skywalker was crap at the whole Jedi thing prior to Yoda, or that Harry Potter does indeed acknowledge that from all the shit that has happened to him he knows he got lucky and that he did try to hone his shit.

I'm not considering Rey as a Sue yet but if they don't pick her up on her shtick she will be heading there.

Luke was crap after ANH. During ANH they were basically the same characters. The confusion seems to come from the Mind Trick and eventually beating Kylo Ren. Also piloting the Falcon, but Luke jumped into an X-Wing and destroyed the Death Star. Also he didn't really have trouble taking off.

Clearly the intent behind mind trick was fan service, not to make her super powerful. Jedi are all over the map in terms of ability.

Kylo Ren, much like Vader in ANH, had a pretty embarrassing loss. Except Luke did fight Vader one on one. That is true, but JJ and company did everything but run a second crawl explaining how weakened Kylo was.

For the most part I don't believe we can say definitively its sexism driving this, but flawed assumptions from the audience and JJ retreading ANH. Side by side, Luke and Rey are intended to be slightly altered versions of the same character.

Biggest difference that I saw was Rey's willingness to accept the force.

Anyway, you're right, from here on is what will determine

 

[ultratruman]

Rey was painfully English, it was grating.

I can see why her mannerisms would be charming to Americans, though.

 

[QisTopTier]

Im very back and forth on Finn and what he actually is in this movie. Other then starkiller details like, what is his purpose going forward other than being the "heart of the movie"

Boyega pretty much doing the heavy lifting with that character/script

Someone has to be the new han

Spoiler

lol

 

[heliosRAzi]

Dull? The movie expertly set up several mysteries connected to her - she's deeply conflicted about her origins, feeling some sort of loyalty/connection to her family or whoever left her on the planet and at the same time wanting to get away from it. Her life on Jakku itself is detailed - scavenging, selling junk, living alone, fending for herself - but how she grew into it is a fascinating unknown. We can read a lot about her from how she reacts to the friendship with Finn (and others) forming - and the brilliant moments when she realizes some of what she's got and enters into a battle of minds with Kylo - in other words, she's a meaty character, subtly acted, and still with a lot of mystery central to her path and the movies' overall narrative. Basically she's the best character in the movie, a role with heft, and calling her dull because there are still things we don't know is baffling. It screams looking for things to criticise rather than sound arguments.

That doesn't work for me. Some mystery is good, even great. But the mystery behind her adeptness to the Force makes her feel shallow to me. People keep saying that we don't know the deal with her skill -- she may have been trained and her mind wiped -- but we don't find out in this movie. We may not find out next movie. We don't know. Until then, her awesome skill comes out of nowhere. And since it's such a huge part of her character, I find myself wanting more.

It's downright ridiculous to compare it to Furiosa - a 100% different character in a 100% different movie, just because she's a woman.

I don't think it is ridiculous. But hey, whatever. Bottom line is that I want to know more about her and enough should've been given in this movie not later. That's why I find her dull.

It's also no surprise that when you look at the people who spread this criticism there's a big overlap with people who identify as gamergaters.

Okay. I'm not a gamergater though, so I guess I have nothing to worry about.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Also piloting the Falcon, but Luke jumped into an X-Wing and destroyed the Death Star. Also he didn't really have trouble taking off.

I just wanted to mention that Luke did say "I used to bull's-eye womp rats in my T-16 back home.", which was one of these

Which had similar controls to the X-Wing. Plus he had backup X-Wings with him and the Falcon for support. And at least some knowledge of the force from Obi Wan. Rey's only vehicular experience was with her land speeder thing.

But regardless this is part 1 of a trilogy so maybe her super quick adeptness to piloting and the force will be explained (I'm sure at least the latter will be)

 

[Brakke]

It's also no surprise that when you look at the people who spread this criticism there's a big overlap with people who identify as gamergaters.

how do you figure? who are the "people" you have in mind, here?

 

[heliosRAzi]

how do you figure? who are the "people" you have in mind, here?

People who disagree with him.

 

[Zabka]

I just wanted to mention that Luke did say "I used to bull's-eye womp rats in my T-16 back home.", which was one of these

Which had similar controls to the X-Wing. Plus he had backup X-Wings with him and the Falcon for support. And at least some knowledge of the force from Obi Wan. Rey's only vehicular experience was with her land speeder thing.

But regardless this is part 1 of a trilogy so maybe her super quick adeptness to piloting and the force will be explained (I'm sure at least the latter will be)

Rey said she has flown before.

 

[Henkka]

Rey said she has flown before.

Yeah, just not in space iirc.

She apparently has had training with some sort of flight sims also, but that's not in the movie

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Yeah, just not in space iirc.

She apparently has had training with some sort of flight sims also, but that's not in the movie

Are these details from the novelization (or did I just miss her mentioning flying before)? Those always seem to have key details that the movies omit

 

[B-Dubs]

Luke was crap after ANH. During ANH they were basically the same characters. The confusion seems to come from the Mind Trick and eventually beating Kylo Ren. Also piloting the Falcon, but Luke jumped into an X-Wing and destroyed the Death Star. Also he didn't really have trouble taking off.

Clearly the intent behind mind trick was fan service, not to make her super powerful. Jedi are all over the map in terms of ability.

Kylo Ren, much like Vader in ANH, had a pretty embarrassing loss. Except Luke did fight Vader one on one. That is true, but JJ and company did everything but run a second crawl explaining how weakened Kylo was.

For the most part I don't believe we can say definitively its sexism driving this, but flawed assumptions from the audience and JJ retreading ANH. Side by side, Luke and Rey are intended to be slightly altered versions of the same character.

Biggest difference that I saw was Rey's willingness to accept the force.

Anyway, you're right, from here on is what will determine

I just wish they hadn't nerfed Kylo Ren for that fight. While I know full well he was nerfed, it made him feel really weak and making the bad guy feel that way, especially when he's one of the big bads going forward, is a mistake. Rey could have had her awakening and barely fought him off, after he got done thrashing them, before they escape. Not much would have changed thematically other than Kylo not feeling like a wimp.

 

[Pandaman]

Rey was mildly sueish that's for sure, but to be fair to the Kylo fight he had been shot by Chewies blaster which had been sold as being hugely powerful the whole movie.

 

[B-Dubs]

Rey was mildly sueish that's for sure, but to be fair to the Kylo fight he had been shot by Chewies blaster which had been sold as being hugely powerful the whole movie.

The only reason she felt that way is because Kylo got nerfed way too hard for that final fight. Had he been on Darth Maul's level of awesomeness, for example, I doubt anyone would have an issue with Rey. They shouldn't have nerfed him for that fight, our heroes didn't need a win against him in this movie.

 

[Zabka]

Are these details from the novelization (or did I just miss her mentioning flying before)? Those always seem to have key details that the movies omit

Rey said she doesn't know how she did what she did in the Falcon and said she's only flown in atmosphere in the movie.

 

[Reagan's BR]

Had never heard the term before this movie came out.

Rey was a cool new character that happens to be female. She was basically Luke 2.0. She randomly figures out she has force powers and happens to be an ace pilot despite having never flown before just like Luke blew up the Death Star. She's no "Mary sue", whatever that term even means. Her being good at everything is about the same as Luke/Anakin being naturally gifted as well.

 

[Purple Cheeto]

Ken Tremendous says anyone who thinks Rey is a Mary Sue is a misogynist:

Ken Tremendous ‏@KenTremendous Dec 23
"She's too good at too many things too quickly!" - Misogynistic dudes talking about Rey if TFA had begun with 6 hours showing her training

Ken Tremendous ‏@KenTremendous Dec 23
"He's too good at too many things too quickly!" - Something those dudes never said, or even thought to say, about Luke

Ken Tremendous ‏@KenTremendous Dec 23
In Episode IV, 26 minutes elapse from when Luke hears about the Force for the first time and when he uses it. Most of that not his story.

Ken Tremendous ‏@KenTremendous Dec 23
Also, then he blows up the Death Star, by using the Force, while flying a spaceship he has never seen until like one minute earlier.

Ken Tremendous ‏@KenTremendous Dec 23
Rey is straight-up a better character than Luke, and the role is far better acted, and complaining about her abilities is garbage.

Ken Tremendous ‏@KenTremendous Dec 23
Jedi have abilities. It's the deal with Jedi. She's a Jedi. The movie explains both her terrestrial and Force-based abilities quite well.

He tweets some more stuff explaining it but I think you get the idea.

Ken Tremendous is actually a well known television writer by the way.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Ken Tremendous says anyone who thinks Rey is a Mary Sue is a misogynist:



He tweets some more stuff explaining it but I think you get the idea.

Ken Tremendous is actually a well known television writer by the way.

No offense, but he sounds like a HUGE Rey stan when he posts things like

Ken Tremendous ‏@KenTremendous Dec 23
Rey is straight-up a better character than Luke, and the role is far better acted, and complaining about her abilities is garbage.

They're almost completely different characters who appear to have different character arcs (in terms of their growth in personality and confidence). Luke was unsure about himself, and the idea of the force, jedis, etc was pretty much nonexistent aside from rumors of Vaders strange powers. Rey on the other hand was independent and sure of herself aside from her attachment to home/waiting for her parents, and people seemed to at least know about the force, even if it was still regarded as just a rumor

Also, I'm hesitant to take anyone serious when their go to argument for against people with dissenting opinions about a female character is to claim they simply hate women. I don't care if he's an award winning writer, I can still disagree with his opinions.

 

[Pandaman]

Ken Tremendous says anyone who thinks Rey is a Mary Sue is a misogynist:



He tweets some more stuff explaining it but I think you get the idea.

Ken Tremendous is actually a well known television writer by the way.

Ken Tremendous sounds a little too invested in this.

 

[Joeytj]

The movie clearly states that Rey HAS flown before, only not out into space (although mostly because she didn't want to leave the planet, not because she didn't know how too), and she worked on the Falcon for Unkar Plutt, but never flown it before.

Both the Visual Dictionary and the Incredible Cross Sections book confirm she was already a good pilot and even built her own speeder, which by the way, actually has low level flying capabilities, not just hovering.

We were also hinted at the protagonist's flying capabilities in the other two trilogies (Luke, Anakin) before we saw them do it. Rey's shouldn't come as a surprise.

 

[Fury451]

How in the hell was her personality nonexistent?

She certainly has more of a personality than your average farmboy.

I think the point that poster is making is that she was largely reactionary to the events of the plot until late in the story.

 

[Scrooged]

Ken Tremendous says anyone who thinks Rey is a Mary Sue is a misogynist:



He tweets some more stuff explaining it but I think you get the idea.

Ken Tremendous is actually a well known television writer by the way.

What's hilarious is that Max Landis (one of the first people to Tweet that Rey is a Mary Sue) is a feminist and has compared the people attacking him (who are mostly men according to him) to MRAs.

People are way too quick to throw around accusations of bigotry these days. It's kinda ridiculous.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

I'm not going to quote the exact posts, but the idea of the force assisting in everything is frankly ridiculous.

In this universe that would quite literally be an example of a deus ex machina plot device, which are rightfully mocked when they appear in other fiction. Now if it was Luke assisting her remotely then I could buy into that, but not a generic unseen force giving specific assistance in flying complex machinery (if we're addressing the falcon piloting).

Also, Ken Tremendous is yet another person who is attempting to character assassinate people who are critiquing the Rey character. Quite frankly I have an extremely low opinion of people like him who paint themselves as the morally righteous while relying on underhanded and disgusting tactics to shut others down.

Oh, and this:

Ken Tremendous ‏@KenTremendous Dec 23
Jedi have abilities. It's the deal with Jedi. She's a Jedi. The movie explains both her terrestrial and Force-based abilities quite well.

My understanding is that a Jedi is a force-sensitive individual who is taken to a Jedi academy and trained under their tutelage to become a member of the Jedi order. Just because she has potential doesn't make her a Jedi.

And force abilities are taught, with new ones being discovered from time to time (which is even referenced in the movies - Qui Gon Jinn discovered how to become a force ghost after death). Just because someone has raw potential doesn't mean they can automatically hone them for specific purposes. Even Palpatine said there are things the Jedi know but don't teach.

 

[Scrooged]

I'm not going to quote the exact posts, but the idea of the force assisting in everything is frankly ridiculous.

In this universe that would quite literally be an example of a deus ex machina plot device, which are rightfully mocked when they appear in other fiction. Now if it was Luke assisting her remotely then I could buy into that, but not a generic unseen force giving specific assistance in flying complex machinery (if we're addressing the falcon piloting).

It is kind of a cheat, but not a deux ex machina. The idea of the Force is something that's told to the viewer early in the story. A deus ex machina is something that isn't related to anything else in the story and appears out of literally nowhere to save the day.

The Force is really no different than, say, magic in the Harry Potter movies. The writers just have to tread carefully and not use such aspects in a way that's not conductive to the story they are telling.

 

[BlastProcessing]

No offense, but he sounds like a HUGE Rey stan when he posts things like



They're almost completely different characters who appear to have different character arcs (in terms of their growth in personality and confidence). Luke was unsure about himself, and the idea of the force, jedis, etc was pretty much nonexistent aside from rumors of Vaders strange powers. Rey on the other hand was independent and sure of herself aside from her attachment to home/waiting for her parents, and people seemed to at least know about the force, even if it was still regarded as just a rumor

Also, I'm hesitant to take anyone serious when their go to argument for against people with dissenting opinions about a female character is to claim they simply hate women. I don't care if he's an award winning writer, I can still disagree with his opinions.

Wut.

When was Luke anything other than uber confident? He goes from never hearing about the Force to 100% believing it instantly. He has no problems with the idea that he is special. He is the one who should go and save this princess! Obviously. When they talk about the impossible Death Star shot, he's all like "That's super easy! I do it all the time!" showing no understanding for how difficult it is. He's basically Homer in the Frank Grimes episode, "What, you've never used your preternatural skills to bullseye womp rats?"