Riots outside Trump Rally in Orange County

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marrec said:
I'm not asking you to have sympathy, I'm asking you to question the root of the violence the same way I question the root of the ground-swell of white anger that has propelled Trump's rise.

You're being incredibly dismissive to simply say it was opportunistic, these things usually happen for a reason and that reason isn't "mexicans are violent".

Edit:

I understand if you are simply disinterested in the roots of the violence though, many people are.
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I am interested in equality for all people, but these violent protests just bring things backwards. That's why it's disappointing. In Chicago, the protests were peaceful and the message was sent.

And yes, the violence here was opportunistic.
 
E92 M3 said:
I am interested in equality for all people, but these violent protests just bring things backwards. That's why it's disappointing. In Chicago, the protests were peaceful and the message was sent.
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Violent protests aren't always a hindrance to progress.

And yes, the violence here was opportunistic.
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What makes you say that?
 
Apt101 said:
These violent protests fuel Trump supporters on social media but I think they have very little negative effect on the average voter. Because most everyone detests him.
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It's not about voters. Trump isn't getting anywhere near the WH. This is about protesting his ridiculous, hateful campaign.
 
Malfunky said:
Bullshit. Regardless of any action taken by his opposition, Trump will say what he wants and have his supporters no matter what.

Let's just get this straight. There is no such thing as violence against property. If you believe there is, you're the one playing into the hands of criminal elements of society: the nobility who put rhetoric over reality. The fact of the matter is that Trump advocates violence against people, most notably women and people of color, and if you aren't going to do anything to challenge that rhetoric, you probably shouldn't criticize the only social movements with the balls to do anything about it. Riot is a legitimate form of protest for the disenfranchised and the powerless and sometimes property destruction is a symptom of this. And these ain't sports hooligans. This is a life or death situation for some people. Can you blame folks for acting out?

I was there. I saw people taking charge of their city. Tagging the fairgrounds sign with anti-Trump slogans. Climbing traffic lights and tagging those. Taking the streets. Blocking the intersections. Trying to take the freeway. Black folks, white folks, latin@s, muslims, feminists, the queer community, anarchists, communists, and progressives were all out actually trying to send a message to these scumbags. There was a unity there. And it was amazing.
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I dare you to say that to the people whose car/store /house you just wrecked. I am sure they will be OK with it.
 
serious question here... what is latino's issue with trump? that he wants to clamp down on illegal immigration and build a wall along the mexican border?
 
marrec said:
Violent protests aren't always a hindrance to progress.
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Violent protests protesting the incoherent opinions of a celebrity who has never won any elected office and will likely get crushed in November aren't progressing anything.

They're making him more electable to racist morons. The small minority of people who actually believe that Mexicans are ruining America see a protest against Donald Trump that ends in violence or riots and they think that's a good reason to vote for Donald Trump.
 
MS-13 in full effect not liking the idea of Trump having them rounded up and kicked out. BTW I'm talking about the rounding up of MS-13 not all illegals.
 
MikeHaggar said:
serious question here... what is latino's issue with trump? that he wants to clamp down on illegal immigration and build a wall along the mexican border?
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Partly yes.

1) He wants to "build a wall" which is metaphorical and real. Many legal immigrants in the US have family in Mexico that they support (monetarily) and visit. Trump's "wall" is seen as a way to cut off Mexico from America and thus to cut off Mexican Americans from family.

2) He has called illegal immigrants, in the past, rapists and murderers.

3) He has been dismissive of Mexican culture multiple times throughout his campaign.

4) Mexican American culture is, believe it or not, surprisingly conservative... but those conservative values are rooted in Family and Religion, two things that Trump is ignoring in his stump speeches.
 
They were throwing rocks at cars along Newport Blvd? This is a heavily populated and heavily trafficked area, and most of the victims probably had nothing to do with the Trump rally. And even if they did... I don't really think that private citizens should be physically attacked for driving to a political rally.
 
I saw some of the news coverage of this last night. It looked an absolute mess. I'm sure that many show up to protest, because they have a message they want to convey, but that message gets completely lost, when you're watching groups of people throw rocks at cars and try (but fail) to tip over a police car. At that point, it just looks like a group that wants to cause chaos for the sake of chaos.
 
Calamari41 said:
They were throwing rocks at cars along Newport Blvd? This is a heavily populated and heavily trafficked area, and most of the victims probably had nothing to do with the Trump rally.
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But if they were involved in the Trump rally they should have rocks thrown at them?
 
E92 M3 said:
Worst rationale ever right here.



It actually did look like an opportunistic act of violence. I have zero sympathy for violent protesters. We live in a modern and civilized society - problems aren't resolved with violence.
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Do we though? I'm skeptical. You should tell Trump that though, with his murdering the families of terrorist rhetoric and looking in to paying the legal fees of a sucker puncher. Mass deportations is unquestionably NOT civilized either.

The Albatross said:
Violent protests protesting the incoherent opinions of a celebrity who has never won any elected office and will likely get crushed in November aren't progressing anything.

They're making him more electable to racist morons. The small minority of people who actually believe that Mexicans are ruining America see a protest against Donald Trump that ends in violence or riots and they think that's a good reason to vote for Donald Trump.
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Wait, you think racist morons weren't already supporting Trump? I'm confused. Nothing is changing here.
 
Nibiru said:
But if they were involved in the Trump rally they should have rocks thrown at them?
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Absolutely not, I ninja edited my post earlier to reflect that. I'm trying to temper my statements because the last time I expressed negative feelings toward anti-Trump protesters doing something like this I was called a lot of things.
 
Calamari41 said:
Absolutely not, I ninja edited my post earlier to reflect that. I'm trying to temper my statements because the last time I expressed negative feelings toward anti-Trump protesters doing something like this I was called a lot of things.
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Hey man let them call you names. Don't let the gang up silence your opinions.
 
Malfunky said:
Bullshit. Regardless of any action taken by his opposition, Trump will say what he wants and have his supporters no matter what.

Let's just get this straight. There is no such thing as violence against property. If you believe there is, you're the one playing into the hands of criminal elements of society: the nobility who put rhetoric over reality. The fact of the matter is that Trump advocates violence against people, most notably women and people of color, and if you aren't going to do anything to challenge that rhetoric, you probably shouldn't criticize the only social movements with the balls to do anything about it. Riot is a legitimate form of protest for the disenfranchised and the powerless and sometimes property destruction is a symptom of this. And these ain't sports hooligans. This is a life or death situation for some people. Can you blame folks for acting out?

I was there. I saw people taking charge of their city. Tagging the fairgrounds sign with anti-Trump slogans. Climbing traffic lights and tagging those. Taking the streets. Blocking the intersections. Trying to take the freeway. Black folks, white folks, latin@s, muslims, feminists, the queer community, anarchists, communists, and progressives were all out actually trying to send a message to these scumbags. There was a unity there. And it was amazing.
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So would you mind telling me where you live so I can go spray-paint an anti-Trump slogan on your apartment, and maybe smash up your car, for the cause? Or would that not be permissible for some reason? I don't see where your interpretation of the validity of property damage has limits.
 
You Are Viewtiful said:
I'm glad there was some protest at least, even though it got ugly.
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I love the protesting, or civil disobedience but what a few of these kids were doing, and how it took over the entire narrative is just sad. I don't see anything significant coming from it, but what a way to fuck up it for the rest of them.
 
Syriel said:
What's worse is that the violence and chaos plays right into Trump's anti-immigrant message.

Trump couldn't have asked for a better outcome as far as his messaging is concerned.

He can take photos and videos from the night, showing people running around, proudly displaying the Mexican flag, why decrying American politics and destroying property and then display those as "proof" that his stance is correct.

Trump's media director is probably giddy tonight. Those rioters did Trump's team a massive solid.
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Especially the "Make America Mexico Again" sign.
 
DontBeThatGuy said:
Do we though? I'm skeptical. You should tell Trump that though, with his murdering the families of terrorist rhetoric and looking in to paying the legal fees of a sucker puncher. Mass deportations is unquestionably NOT civilized either.



Wait, you think racist morons weren't already supporting Trump? I'm confused. Nothing is changing here.
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No idea why you included legal fees in a discussion, but everything else just words. Trump is a big talker, but with no action.

Calamari41 said:
Absolutely not, I ninja edited my post earlier to reflect that. I'm trying to temper my statements because the last time I expressed negative feelings toward anti-Trump protesters doing something like this I was called a lot of things.
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Don't silence yourself because people get so sensitive. Speak your mind.
 
It seems to me that it was actually good for Trump, because he had the families of murder victims killed by illegal immigrants talking on stage while the news stations showed protesters rioting and waving Mexican flags on the split screen. Not sure if that's what the anti-Trump side considers good optics?
 
E92 M3 said:
No idea why you included legal fees in a discussion, but everything else just words. Trump is a big talker, but with no action.



Don't silence yourself because people get so sensitive. Speak your mind.
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Words have consequences and he's running for POTUS, and is the most visible candidate perhaps ever with a huge following of people that just love those words of his. And including legal fees is another way of saying he approves of the violence. It's real simple.
 
These protesters are really just helping Trump in the end.His supporters love to see themselves as "the real victims". Shit like this just helps that narrative.
 
Nibiru said:
I hope it was because if it wasn't then they were normal folks with bandanas over their faces destroying property and wrecking police cars. Much scarier.
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I'd think that the organized gangs in the area would want to avoid making a scene like that. It's not as if they're in America under the auspice of being here in some legal capacity (for the most part).

It is scarier though, because it speaks to a simmering anger in America that Trump is driving a wedge into. There are a minority of Trump supporters who mirror this anger and violence and it's just as scary there, if not quite as justifiable in many people's minds.
 
Malfunky said:
Bullshit. Regardless of any action taken by his opposition, Trump will say what he wants and have his supporters no matter what.

Let's just get this straight. There is no such thing as violence against property. If you believe there is, you're the one playing into the hands of criminal elements of society: the nobility who put rhetoric over reality. The fact of the matter is that Trump advocates violence against people, most notably women and people of color, and if you aren't going to do anything to challenge that rhetoric, you probably shouldn't criticize the only social movements with the balls to do anything about it. Riot is a legitimate form of protest for the disenfranchised and the powerless and sometimes property destruction is a symptom of this. And these ain't sports hooligans. This is a life or death situation for some people. Can you blame folks for acting out?

I was there. I saw people taking charge of their city. Tagging the fairgrounds sign with anti-Trump slogans. Climbing traffic lights and tagging those. Taking the streets. Blocking the intersections. Trying to take the freeway. Black folks, white folks, latin@s, muslims, feminists, the queer community, anarchists, communists, and progressives were all out actually trying to send a message to these scumbags. There was a unity there. And it was amazing.
Click to expand...

So if you were a passerby, and a protestor threw a rock or debris at your car and damaged it, or even worse caused injury to you, would you just be like 'welp that's fine' and pay out of your own pocket your insurance deductible and move on?

If you want to protest and block traffic, then fine, but when you start hurling objects and making it dangerous, then there's a problem.
 
What I'm reading here is that the easiest way for Trump to counter a protest like this is to simply send a few people in there to throw rocks and break some windows. Easiest way to ensure your opponents "message is lost".

Not suggesting Trump did this, but man it sure would be easy right?
 
Calamari41 said:
It seems to me that it was actually good for Trump, because he had the families of murder victims killed by illegal immigrants talking on stage while the news stations showed protesters rioting and waving Mexican flags on the split screen. Not sure if that's what the anti-Trump side considers good optics?
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Somehow I don't think the perpetrators of the violence outside his rally were stopping to consider the "optics" of the situation.
 
ahoyhoy said:
What I'm reading here is that the easiest way for Trump to counter a protest like this is to simply send a few people in there to throw rocks and break some windows. Easiest way to ensure your opponents "message is lost".

Not suggesting Trump did this, but man it sure would be easy right?
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False flag conspiracies go both ways. Maybe Sanders is sending people into Trump rallies to hold up racist signs, make a nazi salute here and there, and throw a punch or two?

marrec said:
Somehow I don't think the perpetrators of the violence outside his rally were stopping to consider the "optics" of the situation.
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I know, I'm more speaking to the people loving the footage coming out of this.
 
marrec said:
I'd think that the organized gangs in the area would want to avoid making a scene like that. It's not as if they're in America under the auspice of being here in some legal capacity (for the most part).
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I'm not saying it was MS-13 (because I don't think there's any reason to believe it was, except that they exist in Southern California), but I don't think that's how gangs usually operate. They're usually pretty out in the open and have no problem making their presence known, in the communities where they live.
 
Hollywood Duo said:
Therein lies the problem though. We are talking about the violence not the actual message of the protest. This is why violent protests don't work.
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It's not about changing hearts though. To me it's about getting people mobilized, charged up and on their feet. It didn't need violence, but it's better than nothing.

DontBeThatGuy said:
I love the protesting, or civil disobedience but what a few of these kids were doing, and how it took over the entire narrative is just sad. I don't see anything significant coming from it, but what a way to fuck up it for the rest of them.
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That's true. A few bad apples ruined it for a lot of people.
 
Calamari41 said:
I know, I'm more speaking to the people loving the footage coming out of this.
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I don't know how anyone can look at the violence incited by Trump and feel anything but sadness. These people aren't heroes, they're criminals and should be held accountable, but Trump has responsibility for it as well and he can just smile and laugh at the pain and suffering he's causing.

Keri said:
I'm not saying it was MS-13 (because I don't think there's any reason to believe it was, except that they exist in Southern California), but I don't think that's how gangs usually operate. They're usually pretty out in the open and have no problem making their presence known, in the communities where they live.
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I'm not following the logic there though, this type of violence isn't about the community it's about Trump so it wouldn't gain them anything besides having a few of their members arrested for what amounts to nothing.
 
Still waiting for a comparable display of Trump supporters violently protesting other candidates. It's kind of shocking that it doesn't seem to have occurred much. Almost like his avid opponents are even worse and more prone to violence than his supporters - and I'm not saying that the Trump campaign sets a particularly high bar of class and restraint.
 
I fully support all protests against this motherfucker. Minorities, women, and the LGBT community can see the fucking tsunami wave that Trump has caused, this movement that threatens to undo a not insignificant amount of the gains America has made, and they're not going to let this shit pass silently. And I couldn't be happier. And no, they can't "wait for him to get in power" because, holy shit, by then he'll be in power. The point is to stop that eventuality.

As far as any violence that occurs during, I absolutely condemn it. As would, you know, the vast majority of people. The people doing it however only represent a fraction of the whole. I don't paint the entire Trump movement as violent for the violence the few of them have meted out, I see no reason to here.

And as far as Trump supporters go, I have to agree that I don't see this protest dissuading any of them. Then again, I don't think they'd change their mind even if it was 100% civil either. The type of person that cheers on the sexist, racist, xenophobic word diarrhea that Trump shits out his fucking face-hole has long since made up their mind. So I'm not all that concerned with convincing these people. I'm far more concerned with galvanizing everyone else.

One more thing: if you're a liberal, or an independent, or hell, anyone of any ideology that considers themselves to be a rational and moral person, and, after having looked at Trump (the type of man he is, his history, what he's saying and doing now, his vision for this country) and the protests against him, concluded that fucking Trump deserves your sympathy, even going so far as to give him support after, I have to question how rational and moral you actually are.
 
marrec said:
I don't know how anyone can look at the violence incited by Trump and feel anything but sadness. These people aren't heroes, they're criminals and should be held accountable, but Trump has responsibility for it as well and he can just smile and laugh at the pain and suffering he's causing.
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I'm going to go ahead and blame the people throwing rocks at cars in my neighborhood for their own behavior.
 
ahoyhoy said:
What I'm reading here is that the easiest way for Trump to counter a protest like this is to simply send a few people in there to throw rocks and break some windows. Easiest way to ensure your opponents "message is lost".

Not suggesting Trump did this, but man it sure would be easy right?
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Provocateurs being placed in protests or rallies is very real and has been done many times but to believe this is a rule rather than an exception would be to say that the same could be done by people posing as Trump supporters and getting violent to paint the rallies in a worse light. The conspiracy theory can go both ways.
 
AaronB said:
Still waiting for a comparable display of Trump supporters violently protesting other candidates. It's kind of shocking that it doesn't seem to have occurred much. Almost like his avid opponents are even worse and more prone to violence than his supporters - and I'm not saying that the Trump campaign sets a particularly high bar of class and restraint.
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Yes, I wonder why they don't protest Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton after all of their hate speech against large denominations of people. Such restraint.
 
I understand the frustration here but Trump and his supports feed off of this kind of negativity. These protests are only helping him.
 
marrec said:
I'm not following the logic there though, this type of violence isn't about the community it's about Trump so it wouldn't gain them anything besides having a few of their members arrested for what amounts to nothing.
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Well, keep in mind, I'm not arguing that it was MS-13. I'm just saying that you're incorrect to think street gangs try to maintain a low profile (or only take calculated moves that further their interests). Something like this could just be fun and a disturbing the peace or vandalism charge would be nothing to them.
 
Malfunky said:
Let's just get this straight. There is no such thing as violence against property. If you believe there is, you're the one playing into the hands of criminal elements of society: the nobility who put rhetoric over reality. The fact of the matter is that Trump advocates violence against people, most notably women and people of color, and if you aren't going to do anything to challenge that rhetoric, you probably shouldn't criticize the only social movements with the balls to do anything about it. Riot is a legitimate form of protest for the disenfranchised and the powerless and sometimes property destruction is a symptom of this. And these ain't sports hooligans. This is a life or death situation for some people. Can you blame folks for acting out?

I was there. I saw people taking charge of their city. Tagging the fairgrounds sign with anti-Trump slogans. Climbing traffic lights and tagging those. Taking the streets. Blocking the intersections. Trying to take the freeway. Black folks, white folks, latin@s, muslims, feminists, the queer community, anarchists, communists, and progressives were all out actually trying to send a message to these scumbags. There was a unity there. And it was amazing.
Click to expand...

So what was the message being sent when some guys assaulted this guy and stole his hat? Wear the wrong hat and your property must be collectivized?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW_8V5gB6qw
 
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