Support NeoGAF

[TheFurizzlyBear]

Brutal Mode looks neat, Il have to try it out. Ita very different from performance mode and seems like a way to show off at a party lol. As for everybody complaining about them adding this and not practice mode, it will come but I'm sure it takes significantly more work than this which is just a new display on the note highway. I bet the next big update will include Practice mode.

This is not a software thing and Harmonix has no control over it. I'm not sure how many times they have to be explicit about this before people stop getting mad at them about this.

I don't think their is a set number, this is the internet. People have all the info at their fingertips yet choose to be willfully ignorant so they can get mad about something and complain to someone. I feel bad in the case of HMX because they seem to be one of the few devs who actually try and listen to fans and people act like they just withhold due to laziness or ignorance.

 

[Gorger]

on one hand, I agree, on the other, I feel like there is no way it could have taken more than one person about an hour of time. Where's the exports? wheres the rest? bleh

Still needs testing, QA and extra working hours before it can be released. I don't know it just gives off a bad taste in my mouth when they are prioritizing such a useless feature no one has asked for or cares about when there are so many important features still missing.

 

[hodayathink]

Still needs testing, QA and extra working hours before it can be released. I don't know it just gives off a bad taste in my mouth when they are prioritizing such a useless feature no one has asked for or cares about when there are so many important features still missing.

There's a very good chance that this is coming first not because it is prioritized, but because it was much easier to implement than something like practice mode.

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

Interested in brutal mode but iI have no clue how I'll pass anything besides vocals.

 

[Gorger]

There's a very good chance that this is coming first not because it is prioritized, but because it was much easier to implement than something like practice mode.

I still don't think it sends of the right message, with this people are going to be pissed they are using resources for unneeded gimmicks, when they should be 100% focusing on the many missing core features the game is currently lacking. Harmonix is a small indy company with a limited budget who should be more responsible with what they prioritize in. I think it would have been a wiser move to wait with something like Brutal mode as a *fun* bonus gimmick at least sometime after some of the essential features were in place first. Harmonix was never obligated to add in performance mode, and I've not seen a single person asking for it either.

 

[hodayathink]

I still don't think it sends of the right message, with this people are going to be pissed they are using resources for unneeded gimmicks, when they should be 100% focusing on the many missing core features the game is currently lacking. Harmonix is a small indy company with a limited budget who should be more responsible with what they prioritize in. I think it would have been a wiser move to wait with something like Brutal mode as a *fun* bonus gimmick at least sometime after some of the essential features were in place first. Harmonix was never obligated to add in performance mode, and I've not seen a single person asking for it either.

You're asking them to hold back on a completely finished feature that probably didn't take that long to implement because this other feature that does take time isn't actually ready yet? Because the basic assumption here is that if they hadn't done this, then maybe some other feature would be done instead, instead of the idea that they're working on all of these features right now, and this is just one that they knew would be ready in time to get it out by this patch (and the others need more time, regardless of whether or not this feature is implemented or not).

 

[Gorger]

You're asking them to hold back on a completely finished feature that probably didn't take that long to implement because this other feature that does take time isn't actually ready yet? Because the basic assumption here is that if they hadn't done this, then maybe some other feature would be done instead, instead of the idea that they're working on all of these features right now, and this is just one that they knew would be ready in time to get it out by this patch (and the others need more time, regardless of whether or not this feature is implemented or not).

What I am saying is that they shouldn't have began working on this feature in the first place. Now that it's done I think they should have waited with releasing it at least for the second big patch, as by putting this in the first big patch they're creating the message that Harmonix's prioritizing is off the rails which again will create a backlash of confusion and possible bad PR. We have even seen it in this thread already.
How hard and expensive it was implementing, testing and QA'ing is all based on assumptions.

 

[FyreWulff]

It doesn't seem like that much work for Brutal Mode, but yeah, I don't like how this is out and not online or any of the other requested things.

Online mode costs thousands upon thousands of dollars to implement + this is not the only update RB4 is going to get.

It's going to get monthly updates.

This did not come at the loss of another mode.

A lot of other things, that people actually have been asking for like individual instrument score tracking, more detailed stats screen on completion, playlists don't seem like they'd be any harder to implement either.

I just wish they'd address the outstanding issues that make the game feel incomplete, or a lesser game than the previous entries, before moving on to game modes that no one really cares about.

And I still really wish they'd fix the crappy sound as priority #1. It is a game focused on sound, after all.

This is not how game development works. Other modes and functions will come in later patches because there's no point in crunching features in together when they can just be finalized for the next patch window cert cycle. Not everybody is working on the same feature at once, nor should they be showstoppered by another feature not being available yet.


Modern game dev is you have a bunch of features in the trunk of your code, then a dev branch, then a stable branch, then a release branch (oversimplifying it, here). The release branch is always weeks or even a month behind the main development trunk. There's multiple smaller branches where modes and functions get added, then integrated back into the mainline branches and finally trunk.

 

[Mr. Enigma]

Brutal mode? Count me in the tribe that will never touch this. Who exactly was asking for this mode? How about something actually useful that people used to have like practice mode?

 

[Deleted member 57681]

Yeah I think it's safe to say that practice and online modes will come in a paid update.
Now that this brutal mode comes before we get freaking setlists, that's something I can justify being mad about.

 

[FyreWulff]

Yeah I think it's safe to say that practice and online modes will come in a paid update.
Now that this brutal mode comes before we get freaking setlists, that's something I can justify being mad about.

I think it's safe to say other features will come in future updates because Harmonix literally said this game will be constantly updated.

 

[Deleted member 57681]

I think it's safe to say other features will come in future updates because Harmonix literally said this game will be constantly updated.

Yes? Setlists should have been in there like yesterday.

 

[zulux21]

as someone who will never touch brutal mode, and who would never touch practice mode...

why in the heck was brutal mode added before practice mode?

being able to work on certain sections so you can get good at them seems like the logical first step to being able to play songs with very little info on screen. introducing brutal mode before practice mode for that reason alone just seems downright stupid

 

[FyreWulff]

Gold starring a song in Brutal Mode gives you Crimson Stars instead, and it's been confirmed on Reddit that Brutal Mode has separate leaderboards.

 

[Gorger]

In Warriors of Rock I play with hyperspeed 5, and I play way better during solos than I ever could in any RB games, but here I think I would be pushing it if I went past 2.0x. I think it's really great that we now have variable breakneck speed. I've been missing it since RB2.

 

[Gorger]

Gold starring a song in Brutal Mode gives you Crimson Stars instead, and it's been confirmed on Reddit that Brutal Mode has separate leaderboards.

I guess a way you could cheat this is by playing the song in brutal while using a youtube video as guidance to see and hit the notes. Now that you have your own leaderboards and crimson stars, people will probably do that.

 

[FyreWulff]

I guess a way you could cheat this is by playing the song in brutal while using a youtube video as guidance to see and hit the notes. Now that you have your own leaderboards and crimson stars, people will probably do that.

Somewhat, but it also forces No Fail and Guitar Freestyles to be off. You'll have to be able to pass the hardest songs in the first place :V

 

[Accoun]

why in the heck was brutal mode added before practice mode?

Because it's literally despawning the notes while leaving their hitboxes once move out of a small field?

 

[Rain City Gamer]

That's an Xbox/ION problem (as in Sony allows certain PS3 controlllers to work on PS4 as long as you include your own drivers, while Microsoft doesn't). Nothing Harmonix can do about that, except either get MS to change their policy or ION to write Xbox One drivers (and/or make a new brain, I think).

This is not a software thing and Harmonix has no control over it. I'm not sure how many times they have to be explicit about this before people stop getting mad at them about this.

I know that there are other parties involved in getting the IONs working on Xbone. I am well aware of that. But to say that they couldn't do more to make it work or to absolve them of any control over it at this point is BS. They can put pressure on said parties, communicate with them, etc. Anyways, just venting my frustrations because RB is one of my favorite games, I bought the Xbone mainly because of all my DLC on Xbox 360 and all my instruments were on xbox 360. I rarely play RB4 because I have no drums and the song exports aren't available yet. I knew what I was getting into, but I was hopeful it would work. Then to see it work on PS4 and to also see VR coming (assuming it will also be on PSVR) makes me wish I had everything on PS3 /PS4 instead.

/salty

 

[Baron von Loathsome]

Not a fan of Brutal Mode.

 

[sasliquid]

Borrowing my friends copy of RB3 to see what i can do about exporting stuff...

 

[Gleethor]

Surprised that they still haven't specified exactly how the RB3 export will work.

Man, the Rock Band subreddit is really tearing HMX a new one over brutal mode. I feel kinda bad. I mean I want other stuff like practice, online and setlists too but its not like they aren't working on them.

 

[pacman85]

Surprised that they still haven't specified exactly how the RB3 export will work.

Man, the Rock Band subreddit is really tearing HMX a new one over brutal mode. I feel kinda bad. I mean I want other stuff like practice, online and setlists too but its not like they aren't working on them.

Eh, I honestly don't think they are working on multiplayer online. Like others have said, it costs so much money and I'm not sure if Harmonix has that money/resources/etc. right now. The other stuff though, yeah they HAVE to be working on that. It's all I see the community complain about all over the internet.

 

[Adam Tyner]

They can put pressure on said parties, communicate with them, etc.

Why are you assuming that Harmonix hasn't been in communication with Microsoft about this? What kind of pressure could Harmonix possibly put on Microsoft to force them to take this sort of action?

 

[Rodeo Clown]

Surprised that they still haven't specified exactly how the RB3 export will work.

Man, the Rock Band subreddit is really tearing HMX a new one over brutal mode. I feel kinda bad. I mean I want other stuff like practice, online and setlists too but its not like they aren't working on them.

I honestly don't feel bad about it. They shipped a game that has fewer features than a game they shipped eight years ago and whatever progress there is on getting back to feature parity seems unclear. It's really surprising to me that they have all these things they could just add back into the game that were in previous games in the franchise and they instead bolt on this super lame mode that I will never, ever touch.

 

[XShagrath]

What's stopping HMX/Mad Catz from putting out a new MIDI adapter for XB1 ION support?

 

[zulux21]

Because it's literally despawning the notes while leaving their hitboxes once move out of a small field?

i get that it wasn't a lot of work, but it's just stupid to have a mode focused on knowing every part of a song without having a mode that allows you to easily learn every part of a song.

it should have just been released after practice mode even if it was done now. it's basically useless right now and won't do anything but piss people off since a mode really needed to enjoy it is missing.

it would be like releasing a rewards catalog into a game but not implementing a currency to get those rewards, it's just dumb.

 

[Yaari]

I don't care for Brutal Mode. I doubt it was too difficult to create lol. Put some filter on the note highway and done.

It's too difficult for me tbh. I wonder how many people will be able to enjoy something like that.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

To everyone complaining about this mode: unless you've ever been in any kind of software development, STFU. This is exactly like when people cry over something like Dark Pit being included in Smash. No, it's not taking away resources from Feature A, it's something that was very cheap and easy to implement while they finish the complex stuff. Feature A isn't ready, and they wanted something to put in Release A, since otherwise clueless people would complain that there's nothing new in Release A. Oh, wait, people complain anyway? Why even bother updating?

I probably won't ever use it, but I'm not throwing a tantrum over it either.

It's also hilarious to see people looking around for the cheapest way to cash in on the RB3 exports (or begging for export codes for RB1 or RB2 if they never owned them to begin with), a feature that Harmonix are basically working on for free, to reward people who actually stuck with their series and bought the game.

I paid to refresh my instruments and get the game running on a current console. I got a couple of hundred songs back for free (I might still be missing a couple but eh, they might turn up). I got to use my old stuff to fill out the band, even though I didn't even pay Harmonix a cent for my Guitar Hero guitar to begin with. And this is a relatively small developer, and still people can't wait to line up to take a dump on them every time they don't get exactly what they want. Meanwhile, everyone's perfectly happy with GHL providing a randomized, monetized Youtube stream with a note overlay. If this is the kind of fanbase Harmonix revived the franchise for, maybe they shouldn't have bothered.

 

[FlashFlooder]

I honestly don't feel bad about it. They shipped a game that has fewer features than a game they shipped eight years ago and whatever progress there is on getting back to feature parity seems unclear. It's really surprising to me that they have all these things they could just add back into the game that were in previous games in the franchise and they instead bolt on this super lame mode that I will never, ever touch.

Well said. I'm as big a fan of HMX and their games as the next guy, but RB4 feels like a shell of a RB game.

If they want the game to sell well (so they can continue to update the game as everyone is touting), make it feel like a feature-rich platform. Not a rushed game.

I'm not throwing a "tantrum" over it, just expressing my surprise and disappointment. I get excited when they say they have news about the game, because it's a series I'm very enthusiastic about. And then they drop this kind of dud.

 

[hodayathink]

I honestly don't feel bad about it. They shipped a game that has fewer features than a game they shipped eight years ago and whatever progress there is on getting back to feature parity seems unclear. It's really surprising to me that they have all these things they could just add back into the game that were in previous games in the franchise and they instead bolt on this super lame mode that I will never, ever touch.

The bolded word is the problem with this argument. This is not an either/or proposition, and I'm seriously tempted to say that anyone that thinks it is doesn't know software development very well. It's perfectly fine to be disappointed that certain features aren't there yet. But this feature being ready, more than likely, has very little to do with that.

 

[nicholasbrutal]

I played early prototypes of this mode and here's what I'll say: in theory, I wasn't interested in it. In practice, it actually dramatically changed how the game felt to play, how I approached gameplay (even less sight-reading based and more musical), provided a new kind of challenge that I enjoyed, and added a level of tension that surprised me (and people watching others play).

The mode is free. Suggestion: try it before you complete bash it. You have nothing to lose.

 

[FyreWulff]

I'm interested in trying it because I tend to look a ways up the track as I'm playing anyway, and never really at the target window itself, so I wonder how well I'll do. Also, it's Performance Mode but actually playable.

There's also some songs I've played the crap out of, so having a slight reminder of the notes could let me pull off some hard FCs in this mode

The only downside is the one strike and you're out (unless I missed someone being saved with overdrive like other modes). Maybe you should be able to bring people back if you push the invisible point back for X amount of time.

edit: nm found a video where resurrecting people with OD in the mode still works

 

[Mr. Enigma]

To everyone complaining about this mode: unless you've ever been in any kind of software development, STFU. This is exactly like when people cry over something like Dark Pit being included in Smash. No, it's not taking away resources from Feature A, it's something that was very cheap and easy to implement while they finish the complex stuff. Feature A isn't ready, and they wanted something to put in Release A, since otherwise clueless people would complain that there's nothing new in Release A. Oh, wait, people complain anyway? Why even bother updating?

So if we've never developed anything, we don't get to complain about anything even though we are paying customers?

Fuck off with that horse shit.

 

[Kolma]

So if we've never developed anything, we don't get to complain about anything even though we are paying customers?

Fuck off with that horse shit.

I don't think that's what he's saying at all.

More so like

Fans really want Feature A. but that will take 3 months to complete (random amount)
We had Feature B in mind but fans may not be to keen on it. however it will only takes 2 weeks to develop and fans really want something new. Who knows! they might love it!

This is the thought process more or less.

He was describing it akin to Smash Bros where developing a new character takes around 6 months from scratch but making a clone takes less than 1. That's why the clones are generally added last minute. "Man the game launches in September but it's May and we are done... lets add in a clone character to please some people and build up the cast before we go gold."

 

[CloudWolf]

What's stopping HMX/Mad Catz from putting out a new MIDI adapter for XB1 ION support?

According to semi-famous Rock Band player IBitePrettyHard who recently got invited to HMX offices where he asked questions like this, getting IONs to work is way harder than we think because the Xbox One hardware simply doesn't allow it anymore.

 

[UltimaPooh]

I know its been discussed to death but what is the way RB 1 - 3 exports when they do become available?

Do I need to buy Rockband 3 and 2 new for PS3?

 

[CloudWolf]

I also agree with the people saying that the people complaining are seriously overreacting. Brutal Mode isn't in there 'instead' of anything. From the very first moment we heard about a new mode (IBitePrettyHard on Reddit) we knew it would be something completely new and not a returning feature people have been asking for. He said something along the lines of that it's a fun, new mode for the hardcore players and something that has never been in a Rock Band game before. People were expecting practice mode or some other old mode, while they should've known that we were never promised anything like that, we were promised a completely new mode and we got it.

Harmonix is probably working on figuring out practice mode, but it's probably way harder to jury rig something like that in than people are claiming here. In fact, just the fact that this new patch brings back song sections and detailed info screens tells me that they are probably working on practice mode as we speak, since practice mode was the only reason why seperate song sections exist in these games in the first place.

I know its been discussed to death but what is the way RB 1 - 3 exports when they do become available?

Do I need to buy Rockband 3 and 2 new for PS3?

For Rock Band 2 you need to get an export code from EA Support and I'm not sure if they still give those out. For Rock Band 3 you apparently need to have played a 'new copy' (probably means you just have to have played it), but we don't know the specifics yet. Rock Band 3 should be available for export next week (or the week after), and the rest will follow in early 2016.

 

[Kolma]

OH RIGHT, speaking of RB2 exports.

I was at a goodwill today and there was a copy of RB2 just sitting there.

I remember people talking about inserting the first 12 digits into RB3 on 360 to redeem RB2 export so if anyone wants to try here ya go!

Please let me know if you got it or if it didn't work. (also posted on reddit)

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/vtI5ovO.jpg?1[/IMG]

btw funny enough, Never went to it before but www.cisco.com/go/rockband still works!

 

[zulux21]

I don't think that's what he's saying at all.

More so like

Fans really want Feature A. but that will take 3 months to complete (random amount)
We had Feature B in mind but fans may not be to keen on it. however it will only takes 2 weeks to develop and fans really want something new. Who knows! they might love it!

This is the thought process more or less.

He was describing it akin to Smash Bros where developing a new character takes around 6 months from scratch but making a clone takes less than 1. That's why the clones are generally added last minute. "Man the game launches in September but it's May and we are done... lets add in a clone character to please some people and build up the cast before we go gold."

at least in my case I am not arguing the feature was pointless to be made, I am arguing it was pointless to add before practice mode as practice mode would be needed to really get enjoyment out of that mode as I would so have to practice sections in order to play like that lol

 

[UltimaPooh]

For Rock Band 2 you need to get an export code from EA Support and I'm not sure if they still give those out. For Rock Band 3 you apparently need to have played a 'new copy' (probably means you just have to have played it), but we don't know the specifics yet. Rock Band 3 should be available for export next week (or the week after), and the rest will follow in early 2016.

Hmmm. Buy if I find a new copy of Rockband 2 with the code that will work? Or do I need to get ahold of EA. How does that work?

Rockband 3... Would you have needed to play it on a PS3?

 

[Kolma]

Hmmm. Buy if I find a new copy of Rockband 2 with the code that will work? Or do I need to get ahold of EA. How does that work?

Rockband 3... Would you have needed to play it on a PS3?

New copy of game comes with a code that needs to be turned into an export code, and that site to do that is gone sadly.

 

[von Stroheim]

I couldn't care less about Brutal Mode. I just wonder what the priorities are at Harmonix.

I would much rather have the ability to make a set list in Quickplay!

I would also rather have all the exports that were promised us! 2016 is bullshit!

Having friends over today for Rock Band. I'm telling them we ain't playing RB4 until it's at least 90% complete. RB3 with customs is the shiz!

Not buying any more DLC until RB4 is ready.

I'm kinda pissed, Harmonix!

 

[chunk3rvd]

Also, pretty confident that the single DLC price has been raised to £1.69 for real, which means no more new Rock Band DLC for me ever because fuck that.

Near 50% price rise is bullshit. It's not like the $/£ ratio has changed much since the launch of RB1 in the UK so there's no reason the DLC price should change so much. Not at all surprised through really - we've always been paying £1.19 which is roughly $1.79 and it's not often you pay less on the EU PS store compared to the US equivalent. £1.49 would have been a better compromise if they had to rise the price

 

[Deleted member 57681]

Oh my God I'm so hyped for the RB3 export (and so ready to get my dreams crushed as EU PSN pleb).

 

[sasliquid]

Oh my God I'm so hyped for the RB3 export (and so ready to get my dreams crushed as EU PSN pleb).

Woot woot eu dissapointment

Finally was able to download a lot of my old packs last night (Bowie, Talking Heads, The Who), only two I can't get now are the 2nd Nirvana pack and Love Will Tear Us Apart

 

[Gorger]

Was able to download lots of new songs on EU now. It's up to 840 DLC. I also bought Van Halen and a few DLC's in appreciation. In RB3 I have around 1600 DLC this including all the exports and RBN, so I am still far off my original library.

I have a question guys. I bought the Days of Peace 01 pack very cheap, but I cant download the songs or find the pack in the library. It includes Spinning Wheel, Somebody to love and Black Magic Woman (Already bought the last song previously) Unfortunately I get the No Content Found bug when I click on it, and it's nowhere to be seen in the PS store. I can rebuy the songs separately, but not through the pack. It's so frustrating.

 

[Metalmarc]

I went in and bought this almost completely blind as it was down to £34 on amazon the other day, just assuming i knew what it was going to be, like the other three but new setlist and a bit improved, and seeing as how i only use it for quickplay mostly and just vocals i thought itd be fine (it's the only mode i wish to play, yes i realize theres other games out there, yes i know it's called rock BAND, but it's the way i play it)


No static vocals compltley turned me off. No sign of it coming in the December update, almost offered the disc away today, despite it only arriving this morning, i wish i read about the game first, but at that price, i didn't think the options section of the game would be so slim.

I'll hold onto it for another update if they still refuse to put in static vocals, i'll gift it away, i'm sorry but i have spent a LOT of money on this series over the years ALL the dlc probably about 240 songs, all the main games, most of the spin offs ac/dc etc, it's a silly thing to be upset over but why not give me the option to play it the way i want to? and i can see on the forums that it has been requested quite a few times to be put in.

 

[StudioTan]

According to semi-famous Rock Band player IBitePrettyHard who recently got invited to HMX offices where he asked questions like this, getting IONs to work is way harder than we think because the Xbox One hardware simply doesn't allow it anymore.

I'm sure they can get a MIDI adapter working because it already works if you use the GH:WT drumkit.

I posted about it not working but it turned out to be a bad MIDI cable. So right now I'm connecting the GH:WT drums to the Legacy Game Controller thingy and plugging my e-drums into the MIDI port on the GH drums and it works fine. So it's totally possible to do a wireless MIDI adapter.

 

[Oppo]

I'd like to get the blue ride cymbal for my PS Ion kit, can you still order something like that? for some reason my kit only came with the hi hat and crash cymbal.

need to finally get on those Pro Drums.