Support NeoGAF

[BlackTron]

What makes Windows bad is all the extra crap they keep stuffing it with, and reactivating even if you try to stamp it out.

What makes it good is that it's compatible with everything, which to me, is the gold standard. Linux or SteamOS could run a game 30% better, but if it won't go online thanks to anticheat or whatever, then it's just a number.

I think Steam/Linux make sense for handhelds where efficiency and UI matter more, and you're likely to use them on lots of small/indie games. But it just can't replace Windows, if it did we would have all escaped already.

 

[Broad Spectrum]

But can be enough for those who debloat the AI slops and spywares and prefer that "everything" just works.

The debloat is never permanent. I used to run Windows exclusively and I vividly remember having One Drive disabled until a software update turned it on and uploaded literally every single file in my Documents, Pictures, and Videos folders to One Drive without asking me.

 

[rodrigolfp]

The debloat is never permanent. I used to run Windows exclusively and I vividly remember having One Drive disabled until a software update turned it on and uploaded literally every single file in my Documents, Pictures, and Videos folders to One Drive without asking me.

Uninstall One Drive is one of the first things I do after a fresh Windows installation. It never comes back.

 

[Broad Spectrum]

Uninstall One Drive is one of the first things I do after a fresh Windows installation. It never comes back.

It's one of the first things I do after a Windows installation too. But it's not an isolated issue. Do a quick Google search. You'll find plenty of "One Drive reinstalled itself after a software update" posts.

 

[rodrigolfp]

It's one of the first things I do after a Windows installation too. But it's not an isolated issue. Do a quick Google search. You'll find plenty of "One Drive reinstalled itself after a software update" posts.

In my 3 PCs with Windows 11 it never reinstalled after updates, and in all 3 I use freaking insider preview updates.

 

[Parazels]

I There are a few games who run way better on linux and there are a few games which run way worse on linux

It doesn't look good for windows even if you believe those controversial tests. A trillion-dollar OS should destroy the other OSes by a wide margin!

 

[crackajack]

30% on one game, while it cant even play Battlefield 6 on Linux. Along with plenty of other games that dont play well with Linux hence all the "Steam Deck" verified bullshit.

Just use dual boot then?
Avoiding MS data collection with a Linux install and in some cases worse performance is overall probably a good decision.
While having Windows sitting alongside Linux somewhere that can do the rest.
I am not sure I would do that on a handheld, the storage space is just not plenty enough, but on a regular PC? Ideally you use two separate storages to have a clean dual boot via BIOS boot order, and no boot mangager even needed.

 

[Boo Who?]

ROG Xbox Ally runs up to 32% better on Linux compared to Windows

 

[RoboFu]

Lutris and FoG for instance if you want to use other stores.

Not playing nicely for me at the moment with the rockstar launcher as I want to test rdr2 on the Xbox ally x.

Will have to sort it when I get home later this evening as travelling to appointments at the moment.

maybe IDK I only use steam. most games are on steam.

I don't even think my bazzite machine has been turned off in a year it really is my PC steam console. I never have to go to desktop or install anything beyond clicking the download button in steam.

On the other hand I do have a Windows gaming pc as well which I cannot say the same for. I don't use it a lot and when I turned it on last to play Ninja Gaiden windows wouldn't update because of the updates KB5066835 and KB5070773 broke my install of windows... I had to reinstall windows entirely to fix it.

 

[pudel]

Linux or SteamOS could run a game 30% better, but if it won't go online thanks to anticheat or whatever, then it's just a number.

Its not like that you cannot play multiplayer games with anticheat on linux....there are quite a few games you can play....like Counter Strike, Dota, Marvel Rivals, Rocket League, War Thunder, Overwatch and and and

This is really solely on the devs and their anticheats. EA for example is actively giving a huge middle finger to linux. They dont have to, but they do.

 

[DenchDeckard]

what are the extra hoops you guys like to make up? its literally 1000 x less if a headache to just load bazzite and never even have to go to the desk top. I can't say the same for windows.

Just what was listed here.

Seems like bazzite is cool of you just use steam but it also seems slick on average that windows 11 performs better. I'd just stick with that but I can understand people wanting to move away from windows

 

[rodrigolfp]

most games are on steam.

There are gazillions of games outside Steam. Some of the more juggernauts like WoW, LoL, Minecraft, Diablo(s), Fortnite, Genshin Impact...

 

[Topher]

Yes, it also shows 2-4% better performance on SteamOS if all other variables are somewhat same. But those variables are NOT completely same. Proton includes shader compilation unlike Steam games on windows. SteamOS as a purely stripped down gaming OS, it's counterpart is Xbox OS, not full Windows.

A proper test would be the following:

Xbox Console with Magnus running whatever converged OS with GDKX optimized games.

VS

Xbox PC with Magnus running Full Windows and testing both the GDK/GDKX games and Steam/Epic Windows SDK games, with and without Advanced Shader Delivery.

VS

Xbox PC with Magnus running SteamOS (if bootloader isn't locked), running Proton games with pre compiled shaders.

Now since that test may never happen or atleast for 2 years, all we have to test is various handhelds with AMD and Intel. But those tests need to be done by someone qualified, not random youtubers. And they should test all game environments. There's a reason why MSIXVC packaged games don't require Denuvo or Anticheats. How about testing Epic games on SteamOS? Not just Steam games that have advantage on SteamOS?

SteamOS will still likely win by few FPS but the testing should be proper.

I'm talking about testing the performance of actual products that run Linux and Windows. If that means Proton adds shader compilation then good. That counts. To hell with this waiting two years nonsense just so the buzzwords line up for some mythical, perfectly optimized Windows PC game. Your conditions for testing are completely contrived. We have actual products that can be benchmarked right now and they should be.

 

[GHG]

Find some1 with more scientific testing. GamerNexus, Digital Foundry, Phoronix, hell even Linus Tech Tips.

"scientific testing" in this case is subjective. You seem to have a great desire to create favourable conditions for windows whereas most people just want to see typical out of the box real world results. And it's those real world results which are causing you to call foul.

Everything is a buzzword and everyone is a shill to Console warriors who can't handle differences of opinion and get frustrated when some1 may not prefer their platform of choice. I don't care for your console warring and/or Steam fanaticism. My interest in Magnus has to do with its implications for xCloud. I would support PS+ Premium too if they ever chose to expand PS6 Orion streams to windows/android/iOS. Just like alternating between Netflix, or HBO MAX and various streaming services with the content you might want to watch.

And what's your definition of a "console warrior exactly"?

Because considering you've gone on record calling S SneakersSO a "console warrior", it seems like you're happy to label anyone who says anything not so positive about xbox/Microsoft as a "console warrior".

If I haven't already said it, welcome back by the way.

 

[PurePlatinum]

Paraphrasing Bertrand Serlet here, the old software executive from Apple.

"You know, underneath it all, it's still Windows."

The things that make Microsoft a giant in the fields it succeeds in, are a complete albatross around their necks in other markets they are trying to enter or play it. Windows is successful because of its ubiquitous nature, and its backwards compatibility. It runs basically everything that has ever run on a Microsoft OS...I'm sure you can get programs from the early 80s running on modern Windows 11 with a little tweaking. It runs every airline, every military force, 99% of Fortune 500 companies...

This is a massive problem though when it comes to creating truly new experiences and devices though. Its core is still the registry, and you can't get in and change all the deep underlying technology or it breaks 40 years of compatibility and you start fucking with the golden goose. It's what hamstrung them in mobile devices, and will hamstring them with this product.

You can't get in and make Windows 30% more efficient without destroying what makes it Windows...and they aren't going to invest in a new OS for something that is going to sell to a niche market.

 

[RCX]

Legendary.

Big xmas bonus for the windows team this year.

Valve should make as much PR noise about this as they possibly can.

 

[Topher]

Gamers nexus are going to be doing Linux benchmarking going forwards:



This is undoubtedly going to upset certain people but this is the kind of exposure that is needed.



Riky/darkmage clone or reincarnation.

Wonderful.

Good to know. GN always has great testing. And yes, the Microsoft tech buzzword generation in those posts are extreme. It's all just meaningless noise and it is the same nonsense that has been repeated for years.

 

[VolticArchangel]

Does the Windows shell allow to increase the the TDP to 20 or 30 watts like the bug in Bazzite?

Lenovo Legion Go and Steam Deck's Steam overlay has this (TDP increase) as an option btw, left to the user.

 

[Durin]

Yes, it also shows 2-4% better performance on SteamOS if all other variables are somewhat same. But those variables are NOT completely same. Proton includes shader compilation unlike Steam games on windows. SteamOS as a purely stripped down gaming OS, it's counterpart is Xbox OS, not full Windows.

A proper test would be the following:

Xbox Console with Magnus running whatever converged OS with GDKX optimized games.

VS

Xbox PC with Magnus running Full Windows and testing both the GDK/GDKX games and Steam/Epic Windows SDK games, with and without Advanced Shader Delivery.

VS

Xbox PC with Magnus running SteamOS (if bootloader isn't locked), running Proton games with pre compiled shaders.

Now since that test may never happen or atleast for 2 years, all we have to test is various handhelds with AMD and Intel. But those tests need to be done by someone qualified, not random youtubers. And they should test all game environments. There's a reason why MSIXVC packaged games don't require Denuvo or Anticheats. How about testing Epic games on SteamOS? Not just Steam games that have advantage on SteamOS?

SteamOS will still likely win by few FPS but the testing should be proper.

Honestly, the only proper test to compare these OSs won't actually be done, because the premise of testing benchmarks is on synthetically clean systems with barely anything installed.

The bloat of Windows is not just the core background processes of the OS, but all of the different ones the OS allows your installed apps to combine to waste RAM + CPU usage. Installing the same apps I use outside games on both my Linux and Windows partition on the same machine, I can see a longer list of stuff taking more on Microsoft's end. I have doubts the current iteration of Xbox Fullscreen is purging all that cruft, and for a real user that cruft will only grow with time as they install more apps to use on the computer.

Also, SteamOS really isn't that special in terms of being some super stripped down thing. It's built on frameworks around the Linux ecosystem, and you have general-purpose Linux distros (CachyOS) getting nearly identical gaming performance using Proton to run on the same handhelds that got SteamOS compatibility.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

It could run 100% better .... still not buying this expensive paper weight.

 

[corgiix3]

is MS just bad at everything lol

 

[Det]

Xbox PC handheld fanboys who can install Linux and play steam games? Oh noes. They're cornered /s
Is xbox living rent free in your head or something?

Hear that @Mister Wolf, you're an xbox fanboy! You picked a ROG ally with an xbox logo on it over your old Legion go

Now they'll pretend that Xbox fanboys who believe Phil Spencer's "it's only four games" have the brains to install Linux on a handheld.

It's obvious that those doing this are PC and Linux users who bought a portable PC and have nothing to do with the retards of Phil Spencer's cult of personality who claim Redfall is "goty."

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

I wonder if people will install bazzite on the next xbox.

 

[RoboFu]

is MS just bad at everything lol

basically yes

 

[old-parts]

Well not exactly this is more to do with the fact that RADV (the open source AMD GPU Linux driver) is better than their closed source Windows driver.

Performance with Nvidia hardware and their closed source Linux driver is the same under Windows.

Any major performance gains on Linux vs Windows is really down to being AMD specific.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Now they'll pretend that Xbox fanboys who believe Phil Spencer's "it's only four games" have the brains to install Linux on a handheld.

It's obvious that those doing this are PC and Linux users who bought a portable PC and have nothing to do with the retards of Phil Spencer's cult of personality who claim Redfall is "goty."

Are those peoples in the room with you?

 

[Det]

Are those peoples in the room with you?

Right now, they're all over the internet celebrating MS's 30% profit margin requirement on the Xbox.
Because then the PlayStation becomes trash because it only has a 10% profit margin...

 

[Thebonehead]

Right now, they're all over the internet celebrating MS's 30% profit margin requirement on the Xbox.
Because then the PlayStation becomes trash because it only has a 10% profit margin...

 

[pudel]

Linux or SteamOS could run a game 30% better, but if it won't go online thanks to anticheat or whatever, then it's just a number.

Its not like that you cannot play multiplayer games with anticheat on linux....there are quite a few games you can play....like Counter Strike, Dota, Marvel Rivals, Rocket League, War Thunder, Overwatch etc pp.

This is really solely on the devs and their anticheats. EA for example is giving a huge middle finger to linux. They dont have to, but they do.

 

[Det]

yeah, I even imagined the discord group of xbox fanboys to spread FUD and combine strategies to "win the holy war"