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[theCalamity]

A good chunk of many movies is 'tacked on' if you consider reshoots that. It's the movie equivalent of reading a rough draft of a book and deciding you need another chapter. Neither good nor bad, just part of the process.

Reshoots aren't bad or tacked on, but it sounds like they just wanted a cool Vader scene at the last minute.

 

[Steejee]

Reshoots aren't bad or tacked on, but it sounds like they just wanted a cool Vader scene at the last minute.

Even if that's how they might have pitched it in their internal discussions, for me it worked like it did for people saying how it distilled the stakes of the movie down to a single scene. I mean, I *knew* they got the plans in the end, but in the moment I almost believed they could fail.

 

[zeemumu]

Reshoots aren't bad or tacked on, but it sounds like they just wanted a cool Vader scene at the last minute.

I don't have a problem with it. I didn't find it annoying or out of place. Had one of those rebels pulled out a viroblade and gone toe to toe with him and when Vader asked for his name he said "Porkins" then I'd have a problem with it.

 

[Surfinn]

This is something I can never fathom - how could you watch the PT so many times if they were that bad?

I mean I watched TPM in the cinema but only watched II and III on DVD and have never watched them more than once. I really don't get it, seems like revisionist history in that the PT is now reviled and JJs stuff is the new cool.

TFA is a better made film than anything in the PT, but overall it's not such huge improvement; Adam driver / Kylo Ren is all too similar to Hayden / Anakin, and the whole thing is a note for note retread of ANH, but bizarrely I found it hard to separate from JJs Star Trek reboots. At the moment i'm not convinced I will watch TFA many more times than anything from the PT.

Rogue One is a different proposition though is it FEELS much more like Star Wars to me, and gels with the OT better than anything else (hell it gels better than ROTJ!!)

That's because I watch them every few years as a HC SW fans to see if my perception of them will change. It hasn't. I've hated them from the start. You're pretending like people didn't feel this way when the films were released.

You've got a twisted sense of SW history if you think the PT hate is "revisionist".

 

[Bobby Roberts]

So looks like io9 is the first across the finish line to turn my two-day old tweet into a story (credited to a redditor, of course)

 

[Greddleok]

Nah. The character work in Rogue One wasn't its strongest suit (it was still adequate enough to make the ending hit), .

Rogue One had characters? I know there were people on screen, but I couldn't give less of a shit about any of them.


I'm also so surprised that "HOPE" hasn't become a meme like "NOOOO."

That bitch says hope like 100 times, and has some weird penchant for giving speeches, despite not having any reason to like the rebellion.

 

[zeemumu]

Rogue One had characters? I know there were people on screen, but I couldn't give less of a shit about any of them.

K2 and the new Mon Calamari Admiral were awesome

 

[gollumsluvslave]

That's because I watch them every few years as a HC SW fans to see if my perception of them will change. It hasn't. I've hated them from the start. You're pretending like people didn't feel this way when the films were released.

You've got a twisted sense of SW history if you think the PT hate is "revisionist".

I've seen all the PT probably a dozen times each if not more. I didn't realize just how bad they are until I saw the last two films.

Sorry, but what I was saying I didn't understand was the fact you said you didn't realise they were bad untill TFA, bold emphasis mine above - I was saying it read like revisionist history from you specifically - I'm well aware that the PT trilogy is not highly regarded, and that it has gradually got worse.

I just don't see how TFA is such a massive step up is all, or why someone would waste so much of their time watching things they hate, but each to their own.

 

[Veritigo_X]

I'm also so surprised that "HOPE" hasn't become a meme like "NOOOO."

That bitch says hope like 100 times, and has some weird penchant for giving speeches, despite not having any reason to like the rebellion.

Saying "hope" in a couple lines isn't as glaringly awful as yelling "noooo" for 30 seconds straight. I don't know how you think these two things are comparable.

And "that bitch," is that really necessary?

 

[theCalamity]

Even if that's how they might have pitched it in their internal discussions, for me it worked like it did for people saying how it distilled the stakes of the movie down to a single scene. I mean, I *knew* they got the plans in the end, but in the moment I almost believed they could fail.

I don't think it distills the stakes down to a single scene. For me, the movie is over after Jyn and Cassian die on the surface. The movie is about our plucky heroes and without them there to affect the fate of something so important just rings hollow. There's no tension in that scene for me. It's tension derived from a plot device instead of charactersI can't relate to a plot device, I relate to characters and there are none in that scene. It's just mindless action. It's beautiful action removed almost entirely from the story.

People say that it shows that the war is bigger than the main characters, but I think that is demonstrated more effectively by having Jyn and the others die for the cause instead of for themselves.

 

[Chuckie]

That bitch says hope like 100 times, and has some weird penchant for giving speeches, despite not having any reason to like the rebellion.

What did she do to be a 'bitch' though?

 

[firelogic]

So it was tacked on.

If you want to read more about the reshoots, The Verge did an article about it Rogue One's reshoots show how Disney saved the first standalone Star Wars movie

 

[aBarreras]

Rogue One had characters? I know there were people on screen, but I couldn't give less of a shit about any of them.


I'm also so surprised that "HOPE" hasn't become a meme like "NOOOO."

That bitch says hope like 100 times, and has some weird penchant for giving speeches, despite not having any reason to like the rebellion.

she wasnt doing it for the rebellion, she was doing it for her family, and her father who sacrificed everything so the rebellion had a chance.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

If you want to read more about the reshoots, The Verge did an article about it Rogue One's reshoots show how Disney saved the first standalone Star Wars movie

This article reads like "they added this pointless scene there and this awful scene right afterwards oh and that awful part on mustafar wasn't in the original cut either".

she wasnt doing it for the rebellion, she was doing it for her family, and her father who sacrificed everything so the rebellion had a chance.

only to be killed by the rebellion, indirectly.

 

[-griffy-]

People still assuming that the reshoots made the movie worse with no real evidence or logic.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

People still assuming that the reshoots made the movie worse with no real evidence or logic.

I mean overall that's impossible to say but a bunch of the stuff that was added was straight up bad or pointless at best.

 

[-griffy-]

I mean overall that's impossible to say but a bunch of the stuff that was added was straight up bad or pointless at best.

That you don't like the stuff in the movie shouldn't lead you to assume the stuff that was originally there before the reshoots was better than what you got. You probably would have liked that stuff less.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

That you don't like the stuff in the movie shouldn't lead you to assume the stuff that was originally there before the reshoots was better than what you got.

What I'm talking about literally were added scenes from what we know that, barring Vader, replaced nothing.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

That you don't like the stuff in the movie shouldn't lead you to assume the stuff that was originally there before the reshoots was better than what you got.

No, see, the first thing anyone in creative ever thought up is automatically the best that thing will ever be. Revisions and rewrites serve only to water down and pander. Only the first draft is pure. Movies must be pure. Anything that seeks to dilute that creative purity must be shamed and shunned.

Film will only achieve its full potential when every director's assembly cut (filmed from every writer's first draft) is the only version allowed to be seen.

 

[PeskyToaster]

Soundtrack is actually pretty cool after I focused on it on my second watch. I guess on first watch I only got your standard bombast but there's some layers to it.

 

[-griffy-]

What I'm talking about literally were added scenes from what we know that, barring Vader, replaced nothing.

You're assuming the movie would have somehow worked better without added or changed scenes. A new scene introducing Cassian and quickly demonstrating his main character traits is a replacement for the scene that would have introduced him, and you're assuming the movie would have worked without establishing that from the get go, or establishing it at all. It ripples out to the rest of the movie. Again, you not liking a scene doesn't mean the movie would have actually worked better without it. It may have made what was there worse.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

You're assuming the movie would have somehow worked better without added or changed scenes. A new scene introducing Cassian and quickly demonstrating his main character traits is a replacement for the scene that would have introduced him, and you're assuming the movie would have worked without establishing that from the get go, or establishing it at all. It ripples out to the rest of the movie. Again, you not liking a scene doesn't mean the movie would have actually worked better without it. It may have made what was there worse.

You could take the movie as is and cut out everything from where Jyn is picked up by Whittaker straight to the rebel base and imo it wouldn't be worse a movie.

 

[aBarreras]

This article reads like "they added this pointless scene there and this awful scene right afterwards oh and that awful part on mustafar wasn't in the original cut either".

only to be killed by the rebellion, indirectly.

so what? he doesnt care she doesnt care, they just want the empire to lose, and they acomplished that

 

[PeskyToaster]

No, see, the first thing anyone in creative ever thought up is automatically the best that thing will ever be. Revisions and rewrites serve only to water down and pander. Only the first draft is pure. Movies must be pure. Anything that seeks to dilute that creative purity must be shamed and shunned.

Film will only achieve its full potential when every director's assembly cut (filmed from every writer's first draft) is the only version allowed to be seen.

Purity, originality, and charisma. The GAF holy trinity of movie criticism.

 

[Surfinn]

Sorry, but what I was saying I didn't understand was the fact you said you didn't realise they were bad untill TFA, bold emphasis mine above - I was saying it read like revisionist history from you specifically - I'm well aware that the PT trilogy is not highly regarded, and that it has gradually got worse.

I just don't see how TFA is such a massive step up is all, or why someone would waste so much of their time watching things they hate, but each to their own.

In all honesty I get a good laugh out of watching the PT, along with the sadness. Sometimes I look for things I like and try to recognize the positives (did I say I'm a huge SW fan?) I think of how things could have been different. New SW releases (along with time in general) make me realize just how badly these films have aged.

Again.. I never said I didn't realize they were BAD until recently (I always knew they were very bad films), but I didn't realize HOW BAD they were I saw decent contemporary SW flicks.

There's a difference between imagining and seeing it actually happen (new SW content that didn't suck). I believe both recent SW films are both a HUGE step up from the PT and I find it hard to believe that someone could argue against that statement, objectively, even if they aren't perfect or arguably mediocre.

How is what I'm saying being labeled as "revisionist" if more time only solidifies what the vast majority of people have believed since the PT hit theaters?

 

[Toxi]

Purity, originality, and charisma. The GAF holy trinity of movie criticism.

You forgot "soul".

 

[PeskyToaster]

You forgot "soul".

I still don't know what charisma has to do with an actor's ability to act but apparently it's an important requirement for all leading people.

 

[Tookay]

I'm also so surprised that "HOPE" hasn't become a meme like "NOOOO."

That bitch says hope like 100 times, and has some weird penchant for giving speeches, despite not having any reason to like the rebellion.

I feel like I exist in a reality where people didn't even watch the movie.

You're right that she didn't have a reason to like the rebellion initially. Then the rest of the movie happens. She learns the her father (who is a good man) didn't abandon her willingly, but sacrificed everything for the rebellion and she's inspired by his example, especially because she knows that the weakness he created was the only thing that could stop the Death Star.

She has plenty of reason to stand with the rebellion and motivate them so her father's actions don't go to waste.

 

[Woorloog]

Pretty sure it is implied Jyn was part of the Rebellion (well, Saw's group anyway) but after Saw abandoned her (from her POV), she stopped caring.
At least that's how i understood the events.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Yeah, she was raised by Saw, essentially. Who was a Rebel. Who also then dumped her at age 15 or 16. At which point she was like "well, fuck the Empire, and fuck this Rebellion."

 

[-griffy-]

You know, I just realized the movie is essentially about a group of rebels rebelling against the rebellion in order to get shit done.

 

[King Kye]

No, see, the first thing anyone in creative ever thought up is automatically the best that thing will ever be. Revisions and rewrites serve only to water down and pander. Only the first draft is pure. Movies must be pure. Anything that seeks to dilute that creative purity must be shamed and shunned.

Film will only achieve its full potential when every director's assembly cut (filmed from every writer's first draft) is the only version allowed to be seen.

*No Delete/Backspace keys were harmed during the making of this post.

 

[gollumsluvslave]

Again.. I never said I didn't realize they were BAD until recently (I always knew they were very bad films), but I didn't realize HOW BAD they were I saw decent contemporary SW flicks.

Yeah I get that now! I just had cognitive dissonance to you saying you watched the PT over a dozen times (that's hardcore!!) - I missed exactly what you were meaning and read it that TFA and R1 caused you to start disliking the PT.

 

[Surfinn]

Yeah I get that now! I just had cognitive dissonance to you saying you watched the PT over a dozen times (that's hardcore!!) - I missed exactly what you were meaning and read it that TFA and R1 caused you to start disliking the PT.

No problem. I'm not gunna lie, sometimes I do sort of force myself to watch them sometimes but only because I do give them a chance every few years to see how they've aged and to see if any positives stand out. But the negatives overshadow accomplishments and achievements more and more every year.

You don't even wanna know how many times I've seen the GOOD SW films, lol.

But here's a good example of time not wasted.. laughing hysterically at Ian McDiarmid's performance as Emperor with some friends. That shit is pure comedic gold.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Fun fact. That last Vader scene wasn't in the original cut. It was added during the reshoots by Tony Gilroy.

Where did you hear this? In Gareth's interview with Empire after the film came out he said he directed it.

Edit: Found the article. It looks like they added it after Tony joined but Gareth did direct the scene.

 

[JB1981]

Nah. The character work in Rogue One wasn't its strongest suit (it was still adequate enough to make the ending hit), but to mention TFA in the same breath is baffling. That's arguably got the strongest character work of any film in the series, and is pretty obviously the most Star Warsy Star Wars film since Return of the Jedi. That movie seems to understand what makes Star Wars more than many of the fans, to be frank.

Someone want to try and argue that Finn is a better writtten character than Cassian Andor, or even more interesting? He had more energy, youth and was "likeable" but his backstory, motivation, moral dilemma (which did not exist) was much better done in the Cassian's character.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I don't know that Finn is better written, but I prefer that performance. Boyega did more with what he had than Luna did. Not to say Luna did badly—but then again, I think I'm in a minority when it comes to appreciation of his performance. I liked what he did, for the most part.

I just liked Boyega more.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

And now AV Club getting in on the action. At least they credited correctly, although I'm not sure how Giacchino's using the structure of Imperial March for "Hope" is a "weird allusion," but hey.

What's gonna be funny is seeing whether or not this actually gets mentioned on Star Wars Oxygen, what with Jimmy McInerney not being much of a fan of me & my mouth. Hearing my name on that show would be weird, to say the least. Cool as hell. But weird.

 

[NBtoaster]

It was kind of weird seeing them bump into the 'He doesn't like you/I don't like you either' guys on Jedha. I imagine they'll have a book or animated feature one day detailing their great escape, if they don't already.

 

[Epcott]

I always thought Hope was more of a mixing of Imperial March fading hauntingly into Tales of a Jedi. It's pretty swift and sweet for what it is. I absolutely love Imperial Suite, it's like Giacchino is trying to do his own menacing song for the opposition similar to Imperial March of ESB and The Droid Invasion from PM. On one hand, I wish Williams had something similar for First Order in TFA, on the other hand, when the trumpets repeat it teeters on the verge of silly... but I still like it. Gets me antsy for Episode 8's OST more so than the actual film. Anywho... blah blah blah

Edit: I just heard the speed-up Hope played over Imperial March. Heh, now that is pretty cool. Nice find, Bobby

 

[BrokenFiction]

The Star Wars show (still on hiatus), decided to put out a Rogue One Secrets episode with Andi, Leland Chee, Matt Martin, and Pablo. A few secrets I didn't know about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AuVg8OL3A

 

[Koyuga]

Just saw this today, liked it very much. Doesn't redeem TFA for me but it does give me more faith in future Star Wars movies.

 

[Toparaman]

A Gaffer made it to AV Club, we can all die happy now.

 

[triplestation]

Darth Vader Voiced By Schwarzenegger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh3Wveg4DMk

 

[watershed]

Darth Vader Voiced By Schwarzenegger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh3Wveg4DMk

Lol, that was pretty good.

 

[sc0la]

A Gaffer made it to AV Club, we can all die happy now.

Doesn't someone from AVClub already post on gaf?

 

[JSevere]

late to the party but I just got around to seeing this. movie fucked me up just right. Jyn and Cassian hugging each other before getting engulfed in the explosion on the beach, and
Vader straight up murdering a bunch of rebels horror movie-style. jesus christ

 

[Cranster]

late to the party but I just got around to seeing this. movie fucked me up just right. Jyn and Cassian hugging each other before getting engulfed in the explosion on the beach, and
Vader straight up murdering a bunch of rebels horror movie-style. jesus christ

And people still try and argue that the Empire are the good guys.

 

[JimiNutz]

Finally saw this last night.
I was there day one at midnight for TFA and ended up seeing it three times due to the hype and frenzy. I must admit that once the dust settled I was pretty disappointed with TFA and am kind of down on the Star Wars franchise in general (hence the delay in seeing Rogue One).

I definitely enjoyed Rogue One a hell of a lot more than TFA. I preferred pretty much everything. The characters, the storyline, the action scenes. Was great to actually have 'war' back in Star Wars and this film had way more emotional impact than TFA. I actually cared when certain characters died in Rogue One.

Couple of small disappointments for me.

James Earl Jones has obviously aged and his Vader voice is noticeably 'off'. Can't they touch that up digitally and make him sound more like he used to?

Please for the love of God, is there no more footage of Vader slaying rebel scum? The glimpse that we got was probably one of the best things I've seen in a Star Wars film since Hoth in Empire Strikes Back. I need more!!!

I wish they embraced the wider Star Wars cannon when planning these battle scenes. The last battle felt like Star Wars Battlefront the movie, so why not include some of the cooler aspects of that game? How cool would it be to see soldiers with Jump Packs for example or other nods to the games weapons and star cards.

Overall I was pleasantly surprised and hope we get even more 'war' in future Star Wars films.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Finally got around to seeing Rogue One last night on AMC's cheap ticket night (Tuesday) and enjoyed it, though that enjoyment was hampered by a very dark projection. A lot of the indoor scenes were difficult to make out.

I'd love to know how much of the film was rewritten, since the first trailer is practically an entirely different film.