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Roma Fleeing the E.U.’s ‘Broken Promises’ Seek Asylum in the U.S

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Piecake

Member
American border control agents are used to dealing with people of many different nationalities crossing into the country from Mexico. But in the past couple of years, officials have noticed a slight but curious uptick in a specific group of European citizens claiming refugee status.

As nationalism and xenophobia grow in Europe, the number of Romanians entering the country claiming to be part of the persecuted Roma minority has also been steadily rising: Nearly 1,800 Romanians were apprehended through July this year, up from less than 400 in 2015. Almost all applied for asylum, citing fear of hate crimes and persistent discrimination that limits their opportunities in Europe.

The new influx is tiny in comparison, but a sign of increasing desperation with Europe’s inability or unwillingness to protect their rights, Roma activists say.

“At this moment, Roma are not welcome, migrants aren’t welcome, the environment is hostile and marked by violence, even in Western Europe,” Ethel Brooks, a professor at Rutgers and chair of the Board of European Roma Rights center, told FP. In some Romanian cities, it’s still common to encounter segregated public spaces and signs that read “no dogs or gypsies,” she said.

Rights groups like Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch continue to document systemic discrimination against Roma in EU countries. The U.S. State Department’s 2015 human rights report on Romania, the country where the recent crop of asylum-seekers is emigrating from, pointed out discrimination against Roma as “a major problem,” citing complaints of harassment and police brutality, denial of service in public places, school segregation, and inadequate health care, among other related problems.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/22/roma-romania-migration-united-states/

Roma from the country of Romania (confusing, I know).

The article does point out that the Roma from Romania have moved around the EU to look for opportunities and a place where they aren't discriminated against, but haven't found it
 

Goro Majima

Kitty Genovese Member
Wait, Roma or Romanian? Not exactly the same thing...

I'm assuming they mean Roma.

edit: Roma from Romania. Figured it out.
 

Piecake

Member
Wait, Roma or Romanian? Not exactly the same thing...

I'm assuming they mean Roma.

Roma from the country of Romania (confusing, I know).

The article does point out that the Roma from Romania have moved around the EU to look for opportunities and a place where they aren't discriminated against, but haven't found it
 
This article is really doing itself a disservice by referring to Romanians as Roma in the title of the article.

edit: oh Romanian Roma, that is super confusing.

I'm an American so please excuse my ignorance but what's the history with discrimination against Romanians in Europe?

If this article stays on the front page for a few more hours you may get a first hand look.
 
I'm an American so please excuse my ignorance but what's the history with discrimination against Romanians in Europe?
Not Romanians, Roma.

They're gypsies, essentially. Gypsies are very hated by a lot of right wing groups and become targets of violence and it's easy for citizens to not give a shit because they either; a) don't like gypsies because they supposedly steal everything; b) don't like gypsies because they don't pay tax and therefore 'don't contribute to society'; c) it's not reported to the police or by the news because they see themselves as removed from 'gorgers' (non-gypsies).

As you asked about Europe this answer is broad and doesn't cover the finer details of specific countries attitudes. Also, cheers everyone for just assuming most European gaffers would be racist about this, I'll slink back into the thread about officers shooting or assaulting black people and read about how America has it so right.

im joking, don't worry
 
Do Romas usually have EU passport? They should be able to just fly here
Doesn't work that way. The US has different rules for different EU countries. Western Europeans can just fly in easily, Eastern Europeans can't and need a visa as far as I know.
 

Piecake

Member
Not really... please tell us more about how we other europeans are racist towards roma and sinti.

Apparently a lot of people were met with with bans in the last Roma thread, so that is probably what the poster is referring to.

Not totally sure how long ago that was, but it was a while ago, so time and perhaps the people on GAF have changed, so things might be different now.
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
8vt1wMn.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTUKEBEKa_U

First thing i thought of reading through this thread.
 

besada

Banned
We already have about a million Roma from earlier migrations, so it's not as if they'll lack a place to go.
 
I'm an American so please excuse my ignorance but what's the history with discrimination against Romanians in Europe?

I assume you mean Romas. They used to be called Zigeuner (gypsies) but that was used derogatory and not accurately and they are now referred to as roma and sinti. IIRC they are thought to originate from indian descent and have been treated like shit for centuries.

A lot of them were victims of the holocaust in KZs for instance.

How they are treated varies by nation in europe. I can't really speak much for discrimination where I live, Zigeuner is still heavily both jokingly and sincere in usage. There've also been studies conducted that showed if you have a foreign name you are much less likely to find a job with the same credentials as a german name.
 

xptoxyz

Member
I'm an American so please excuse my ignorance but what's the history with discrimination against Romanians in Europe?

From my perspective, it's weird and hard to see people make a blank statements of Roma/Roma descendent still.

Actually I don't know how much ties some of them have to groups in other countries, but it seems in a lot of cases that the groups are really different nowadays. For many, long gone is the stereotype you see of people riding a horse pulled cart you so often see in photos/video and poverty that still plagues others.

I'd say cultural integration has been the hardest barrier as some old customs still too ingrained in the community which are not compatible with western ones. Arranged marriages, women rights, lots of attempts to keeping their kids from education. These are all widespread cases, which of course are not to say apply to every family. Progress will happen, will just take even more generations.
 

Walpurgis

Banned
IIRC, some Roma claimed refugee status in Canada a few years ago due to the persecution they experienced in Romania. Unfortunately, our racist prime minister basically forced them out of the country.
 

besada

Banned
Could you guys quit poisoning the well by ranting about all the racists that are going to show up? It's not useful.

If they show up, address them, but there's no point in borrowing trouble.
 

Piecake

Member
I'd say cultural integration has been the hardest barrier as some old customs still too ingrained in the community which are not compatible with western ones. Arranged marriages, women rights, lots of attempts to keeping their kids from education. These are all widespread cases, which of course are not to say apply to every family. Progress will happen, will just take even more generations.

I'd be curious if anyone has any idea about how well Roma have integrated into US society.

As Besada notes, around a million Roma live in the US, and I can honestly say I don't think I've heard a single thing about them, and haven't heard that they are having trouble integrating into US society.

Is that simply my ignorance or, as the article has noted, they simply have faded into the background and gone under the radar because Americans don't care that they are Roma?
 

besada

Banned
I'd be curious if anyone has any idea about how well Roma have integrated into US society.

As Besada notes, around a million Roma live in the US, and I can honestly say I don't think I've heard a single thing about them, and haven't heard that they are having trouble integrating into US society.

Is that simply my ignorance or, as the article has noted, they simply have faded into the background and gone under the radar because Americans don't care that they are Roma?

There were some problems in the seventies, but they were dealt with remarkably reasonably. For example, here in Texas, we had Roma groups that when they arrived wouldn't assimilate and didn't trust authorities. Texas made a special school district for them to help them assimilate, as well as allowing them to self-adjudicate with government oversight. Within a generation or so, none of that was necessary anymore, and they're largely assimilated. I grew up with a handful of Roma kids in Austin, who were not much different than the other kids.

Most American Roma don't identify to non-Roma as Roma, so you may know Roma without having any idea.
 

entremet

Member
Could you guys quit poisoning the well by ranting about all the racists that are going to show up? It's not useful.

If they show up, address them, but there's no point in borrowing trouble.

Thanks for this. Get annoying in many threads.
 

xptoxyz

Member
I'd be curious if anyone has any idea about how well Roma have integrated into US society.

As Besada notes, around a million Roma live in the US, and I can honestly say I don't think I've heard a single thing about them, and haven't heard that they are having trouble integrating into US society.

Is that simply my ignorance or, as the article has noted, they simply have faded into the background and gone under the radar because Americans don't care that they are Roma?

I wouldn't know. It could be that those groups had less problem letting go of their roots and western-izing. I have no idea, hopefully they just were able to fit well into American society and be happy, or live their lifestyle unbothered without infringing on the rest of society's rules.

But it appears they don't identify or don't like being identified as Roma (maybe scared?) as it appears in 2000 only about 5400 claimed that ethnicity in the US which is far from that 1 million estimate.

Take note that 1 million in the US would only represent 0.3% of the population, versus the numbers in other countries. That could contribute to them being in the "background"? Maybe you have to live in a small region of the US where there's a community of people descent from Roma immigrants?

My particular knowledge extends to a particular subset, and even that is limited to a few interactions throughout life.
 

Geist-

Member
So, I've heard of the Roma thing before, buy I'm not super knowledgeable. Is saying they're being treated like African Americans in the US a fair comparison?
 
As you asked about Europe this answer is broad and doesn't cover the finer details of specific countries attitudes. Also, cheers everyone for just assuming most European gaffers would be racist about this, I'll slink back into the thread about officers shooting or assaulting black people and read about how America has it so right.

im joking, don't worry

Granted, but I definitely remember several other threads on gaf that bring up the Roma that tend to get very.... racisty...
 

Piecake

Member
There were some problems in the seventies, but they were dealt with remarkably reasonably. For example, here in Texas, we had Roma groups that when they arrived wouldn't assimilate and didn't trust authorities. Texas made a special school district for them to help them assimilate, as well as allowing them to self-adjudicate with government oversight. Within a generation or so, none of that was necessary anymore, and they're largely assimilated. I grew up with a handful of Roma kids in Austin, who were not much different than the other kids.

Most American Roma don't identify to non-Roma as Roma, so you may know Roma without having any idea.

That's quite interesting. That honestly seems like those Roma had a severe mistrust of government based on experiences and not something inherently cultural, and isolated themselves out of fear of their safety. When trust was eventually built and established Roma were able to successfully integrate into society to the point where basically all Americans probably have no idea who Roma are and, like me, couldn't point out a Roma if their lives depended on it.

I don't know about Roma, but there are a fair number of Irish Travellers in the southeast US.

Another group that I had no idea existed.
 

Hypnotoad

Member
This about to get real racists. Some of he most level-headed Europeans lose their minds when it comes to the Roma people.

Well back when my family had a store in Greece, most interactions with Roma were negative ones. When they came as a group to the city centers, they did so to steal and scam, overwhelming shopkeepers by sheer number. In Greece, people are more relaxed about them in general, since they don't stir up much trouble otherwise and have mostly adapted the local language. But unfortunately, groups of Roma going on shoplifting sprees was something that we had to be wary of.
 

xptoxyz

Member
There were some problems in the seventies, but they were dealt with remarkably reasonably. For example, here in Texas, we had Roma groups that when they arrived wouldn't assimilate and didn't trust authorities. Texas made a special school district for them to help them assimilate, as well as allowing them to self-adjudicate with government oversight. Within a generation or so, none of that was necessary anymore, and they're largely assimilated. I grew up with a handful of Roma kids in Austin, who were not much different than the other kids.

Most American Roma don't identify to non-Roma as Roma, so you may know Roma without having any idea.

I feel that's what's missing in some European countries. Though I guess some people would still argue that you'd be forcing them to adapt to culture. Older folks keeping education from the younger generations in some groups always seemed like a huge barrier. A lot of kids didn't go to school. It's going to get better as more measures are put into place. But education trickling over generations seems key.

From what I remember a measure that has been working well in a region was that parents wouldn't receive government hand outs if they kept their kids from school. Kids started going to school.

Not when you put a percent after the number. It's .3%

You're absolutely right sorry about that.
 

Mael

Member
Not surprised.
They've been fucked over by pretty much all EU nations since I can't even tell you when.
The only reason the French Right isn't talking about how they're the scum of the earth is because they're too busy shitting on muslims.
Of course you may have muslims among them and boy do you not want to hear what is said about them.
The Left doesn't give a shit about them anyway so they basically only have enemies and are treated as subhuman scums.
Let's hope the US take up the slack for the EU being a shithole.
 

xptoxyz

Member
You can click on a red name and select "Send a private message". It's not different from any other poster as far as I know.

He might've been looking for some report button/shortcut like other forums have? AFAIK GAF doesn't have anything like that?
 

Mael

Member
So, I've heard of the Roma thing before, buy I'm not super knowledgeable. Is saying they're being treated like African Americans in the US a fair comparison?

Basically take Black people in the US but remove all the communities and have them be treated like transient black people from the XVIIIth century.
Discriminated on sight, left in perpetual poverty and they're usually the scapegoat for every ill any community have.
The fact that they're still considered chicken thief when most of the population don't even have chicken anymore should tell you everything you need to know.
And you better not take a look at how the children are integrated into schools...
 

Jacobi

Banned
The Left doesn't give a shit about them anyway so they basically only have enemies and are treated as subhuman scums.
Let's hope the US take up the slack for the EU being a shithole.
They get free money and free rent in Germany. Is that being treated like subhuman scums? They won't get this in the US
 
Yeah. If there is anyone group that seem universally hated, it is gypsies.

Perfectly normal and reasonable people will lose their shit the moment they see a bunch of parked caravans in their area.
 

Nere

Member
Basically take Black people in the US but remove all the communities and have them be treated like transient black people from the XVIIIth century.
Discriminated on sight, left in perpetual poverty and they're usually the scapegoat for every ill any community have.
The fact that they're still considered chicken thief when most of the population don't even have chicken anymore should tell you everything you need to know.
And you better not take a look at how the children are integrated into schools...

I will tell you from personal experience that they are not coming to school because of their parents. As teachers we beg them to send their children to the school but they only do it for the first week or two and then they disappear for the rest of the year.
 
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