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[Frozenprince]

Right.....



Seriously a ton of the responses I'm this thread are out right disgusting

The lack of self awareness is what kills me

 

[Guevara]

A Romanian couple who exploited their seven children as beggars and thieves in and around London have been jailed at Reading crown court for two and a half years for child cruelty.

Speranta Mihai, a Roma who lived in Slough and took her children, now aged between two and 16, begging and stealing across south-east England in a systematic operation, was sentenced by Mr Recorder Whittaker alongside her husband, Gheorghe Mihai, who pleaded guilty to child cruelty, benefit and tax fraud and money laundering.

The Mihais were arrested in a dawn raid by officers from Operation Golf, the Metropolitan police's investigation into what it believes is Europe's largest human trafficking ring. It is centering on the small Romanian town of Tandarei from which as many as 1,000 children have been trafficked across Europe for the purposes of benefit fraud, begging and theft.

In the year preceding his arrest, Gheorghe Mihai, 36, passed £47,000 through his bank accounts, including £35,000 in tax credits, housing and child benefit that he defrauded from the state.

When the police arrived, most of the children were found sleeping on the floor of the sparsely furnished house in the Berkshire town with little food.

Four required dental treatment and three suffered from infestations of headlice. One of the youngest children was later found to have scarring consistent with cigarette burns and another with a lesion. The injuries happened while the children were in their parents' care, the court was told.

The prosecution said the evidence added up to a general pattern of "neglect and cruelty" and that – despite defence denials that the children were trafficked from Romania for exploitation – the children had been brought to the UK expressly for that purpose.

Speranta Mihai, thought to be aged around 33, would take her children begging in Luton, Wembley, Southall, Soho, Hyde Park, Edgware Road and Oxford Street, as part of what the court heard was the Mihai "family business".

"It is an act of cruelty to bring children up in a life of crime," said Gareth Branston for the prosecution. "The Mihai family business is begging or stealing and that is the education they gave their children."

None of the children were in school and the couple were both convicted of child cruelty for failing to educate them. Speranta Mihai was convicted on a second count of child cruelty for "causing her children to be engaged in begging".

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jul/30/romanians-jailed-children-beg-steal

 

[Frozenprince]

Okay? So that means all Roma sell their children like that, got you.

 

[CyclopsRock]

It's just a cultural issue. Roma/Traveller culture is incompatible with modern European culture. They need to send their kids to school and they need to stop moving around while they *have* kids so they can get a decent education and integrate into their host societies.

We shouldn't pretend that any European state has a moral obligation to tolerate parallel societies at right-angles to the mainstream.

Yeah, this is sort of the problem I think. "Integration" is a thing you can do with people who want to be a part of whatever is existing. The people that are least likely to integrate are the ones who don't want to - the ones who don't actually want a permanent house or to stay in the same place long enough for kids to get a decent education etc. What do you do about that? They have a fundamentally different (and largely incompatible) view on how life should be lead which inevitably leads to conflict (ie when it comes to property rights). So again, what do you do about that? I'd be interested to know the extent to which those who emigrate (or have previously emigrated) to the US maintain this alternative lifestyle and how many basically jack it in and live like everyone else.

 

[Gattsu25]

Here's a fun thought experiment.

Take all the posts about the Roma in these threads, and replace gypsies/roma with Jews.

See how your posts read then.

Decided to give this a try:

 

[Beefy]

No, and that's an extremely offensive thing to say by the way.

And the UK is in the EU, so I'm not sure what you're getting at there.

It's mainly central EU were Romas are really harshly treated. The UK Roma population is getting bigger due to efforts of curbing this out.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Right.....

Seriously a ton of the responses I'm this thread are out right disgusting

I'm just listing one of the many acts of persecution they face over here. Expecting them not to nick copper wiring is clearly completely unreasonable. Other demands placed on them include having the correct documentation for their vehicles and paying tax on their income. They shouldn't have to put up with any of this racism imo.

 

[Aiustis]

I have a friend who is Roma.

 

[mnz]

Roma and Sinti are the most hated native European group there is in Europe. And this is all over the place. From Spain, Italy to France, Romania, Bulgaria to the UK. Basically the whole continent. It's probably the most accepted group of people to openly talk shit about and not get called out for it. So yeah, I can absolutely see why they would want to leave.

 

[Frozenprince]

I'm just listing one of the many acts of persecution they face over here. Expecting them not to nick copper wiring is clearly completely unreasonable. Other demands placed on them include having the correct documentation for their vehicles and paying tax on their income. They shouldn't have to put up with any of this racism imo.

The pure lack of any self awareness KILLS me.

This post reads like it's straight from a 60's southern politician about integration.

Bigotry is bigotry.

 

[Htown]

The lack of self awareness is what kills me

It's honestly hilarious. They're so transparent about it.

 

[acohrs]

In Ireland, there's not that many Roma but there are a lot of Irish traveler communities. Like an Irish version of the Roma, there's a lot of discrimination towards Travelers from the settled community, most of it undeserved but it does seem that everyone has a negative story or anecdote about a traveler community near them. Hard to see how the situation will be rectified.

 

[God Dayumm]

Nice way of shifting all the blame for their failings away from the Sinti and Roma themselves. Of course the host societies are to blame, not cultural practices unfit for modern society.

The Amish are incompatible with modern society but they thrive in their own segregated communities and they are doing fine, so do many Indian reservations, and they all work fine within the legal framework of the US. I'm sure Romas could too if they were given permission instead of abuse.

 

[Frozenprince]

It's honestly hilarious. They're so transparent about it.

Seriously. The hell is wrong with y'all?

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

The pure lack of any self awareness KILLS me.

This post reads like it's straight from a 60's southern politician about integration.

Bigotry is bigotry.

Sounds like something George Wallace would spout.

The Amish are incompatible with modern society but they thrive in their own segregated communities and they are doing fine, so do many Indian reservations, and they all work fine within the legal framework of the US. I'm sure Romas could too if they were given permission instead of abuse.

And they do have permission in the US. Everyone does. The US is a gigantic nation with plenty of open land.

 

[EdibleKnife]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jul/30/romanians-jailed-children-beg-steal

I need to ask why this is relevant. Do white Englanders never commit heinous crimes against their own children or children in general? No other human trafficking going on in the UK except by Romanians?

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I wish UK gypsies all the best with their move to the US. I'd even be willing to chip in for the flights! Are they leaving the caravans here, or having them shipped over?

You seem pleasant..😒

 

[Guevara]

I need to ask why this is relevant. Do white Englanders never commit heinous crimes against their own children or children in general? No other human trafficking going on in the UK except by Romanians?

It's not just the two shitty parents, it's a pattern of child abuse, believed the be the largest such ring in Europe.

Obviously not every Roma is involved, but whenever I see children beggars in a Europe city, it's hard not to remember how many are exploited.

Edit: and as the article mentions: moving your children around constantly, and therefore denying them proper education and healthcare: that alone is abuse.

 

[Beefy]

Roma and Sinti are the most hated native European group there is in Europe. And this is all over the place. From Spain, Italy to France, Romania, Bulgaria to the UK. Basically the whole continent. It's probably the most accepted group of people to openly talk shit about and not get called out for it. So yeah, I can absolutely see why they would want to leave.

I watched a programme on Roma/Irish travellers a few weeks back. Their population in the UK is growing due to the fact of the caravan parks etc being set up for them. Mainy now settle and stop there for good. Education is now slowly becoming a bigger thing for young girls in their community as well. So at least on the right track.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

No, and that's an extremely offensive thing to say by the way.

That was offensive but what you said earlier, quoted below, wasn't? ...

I wish UK gypsies all the best with their move to the US. I'd even be willing to chip in for the flights! Are they leaving the caravans here, or having them shipped over?

Are you a joke character?

 

[DerangedHermit]

The lack of self awareness is what kills me

Don't be fooled, there's no lack of self awareness.

 

[Frozenprince]

It's not just the two shitty parents, it's a pattern of child abuse, believed the be the largest such ring in Europe.

Obviously not every Roma is involved, but whenever I see children beggars in a Europe city, it's hard not to remember how many are exploited.

Eastern Europe is the sex trafficking hub of the world, do you use that as a way to judge all Checzhs? Slavs? Baltic states?

 

[Layell]

Roma communities in the US are certainly much more different than the European Roma, this old Times article can explain a few things on that.

One of my professors did Anthropological research with Polish Roma women to create artwork. That one article about the sex trafficking is on the extreme but there are patterns of abuse that result from the poor treatment of Roma, as well as lack of education/opportunity. If you are a people who have been abused for generations, it is also naturally very hard to believe a government body is all of a sudden going to be generous and help you. It's a difficult situation all around.

 

[Dingens]

I'd be curious if anyone has any idea about how well Roma have integrated into US society.

As Besada notes, around a million Roma live in the US, and I can honestly say I don't think I've heard a single thing about them, and haven't heard that they are having trouble integrating into US society.

Is that simply my ignorance or, as the article has noted, they simply have faded into the background and gone under the radar because Americans don't care that they are Roma?

I'd attribute that to 2 major reasons:

Space and Welfare
1) The EU has 116 inhabitants per km² whereas the US only has 33 inhabitants per km². The numbers in Europe's case are even higher if you exclude eastern Europe, while the number is even lower for 90% of the US. Basically everyone is standing on everyone else's toes all the time. In the US, it is way easier to live in a sheltered community. just buy a junk of land in the middle of nowhere and you are done. See the Amish for example. This is not possible in the EU. You are generally expected to integrate to at least a certain degree because:

2) every inhabitant is entitled to welfare benefits, and I'm sure its not hard to understand why sheltered communities, which receive welfare benefits but contribute nothing at all would come under criticism. I think this is also the point, that is the hardest to understand for Americans. In the US, nobody gives a shit about others because they (usually) don't receive "my" tax money. But for most people, receiving gov. support also implies giving back to society. And as long as Roma are considered free riders, nothing is going to change.

They also have a few more disadvantages. Mainly because most European states take care of their own homeless, so most beggars you will encounter on the streets are (usually) of eastern European decent. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are Roma, but thanks to countless studies, documentaries, news paper articles, most people will automatically assume that they are (and as implied by said media, its probably true as well). The ones that do integrate well, you'll probably never encounter. Mostly because, given "normal" cloths, how would you be able to tell? Like one of my classmates at university is probably Roma judging by her name and decent, but without this information, she just blends into the background (I never asked her though, because I don't really care either way).

Also, as someone already mentioned, migrating to the US is completely different than migrating inside Europe. You only go to the US if you want to start a new life and leave your old one behind. Many Roma (presumably) do not really move to other European cities, but rather go there during the week, living in their slums, commuting home on weekends. Being from a transit country, if you drive on the east-west highway on Friday nights, 80% of the cars will have Rumanian or Bulgarian number plates.


edit:
yeah from the article above, basically this:

Once a Roma has achieved a degree of success, they may choose to no longer identify themselves as Roma, Kushen said, opting instead to identify with the country they herald from, be it Slovakia, Romania or France.

 

[Hypnotoad]

The Amish are incompatible with modern society but they thrive in their own segregated communities and they are doing fine, so do many Indian reservations, and they all work fine within the legal framework of the US. I'm sure Romas could too if they were given permission instead of abuse.

Permission to do what? Not follow the law of the land?

 

[Doikor]

The Roma are not quite as unified group as people think. The most racist stuff (as in beating the ever living shit out of them in plain daylight) I've seen done to Roma have been by the local Roma here in Finland to Roma beggers coming from Romania etc. The local Roma here never beg for money on the streets so I guess they got quite a different culture. They just mostly sell/buy used stuff (cars).

 

[Can Crusher]

From my own experience, the government houses them free of charge, public health service free of any tax contribution, free public education. After that they are left to their own devices, which often leads to kids dropping out of school really early, communities that don't like to interact with outsiders, life of crime etc.

I really have no idea if they are culturally incapable, or plain unwilling to properly integrate and assimilate the culture around them.... or if most if not all governments in Europe don't know how to frame it so that it happens.

Admittedly, my views are extremely biased by the experience I have of having lived years near a roman neighborhood, attending a school with plenty of roman students, and therefore I'm probably unable of seeing a wider/bigger picture.

 

[Doikor]

From my own experience, the government houses them free of charge, public health service free of any tax contribution, free public education. After that they are left to their own devices, which often leads to kids dropping out of school really early, communities that don't like to interact with outsiders, life of crime etc.

I really have no idea if they are culturally incapable, or plain unwilling to properly integrate and assimilate the culture around them.... or if most if not all governments in Europe don't know how to frame it so that it happens.

Admittedly, my views are extremely biased by the experience I have of having lived years near a roman neighborhood, attending a school with plenty of roman students, and therefore I'm probably unable of seeing a wider/bigger picture.

At least from what I've learned from the local Roma population here (Finland) they really frown upon working for anyone. So they always have to be some kind of one man jobs/entrepreneur stuff going on. (buying/selling used cars and other stuff is popular here).

 

[UnluckyKate]

From my own experience, the government houses them free of charge, public health service free of any tax contribution, free public education. After that they are left to their own devices, which often leads to kids dropping out of school really early, communities that don't like to interact with outsiders, life of crime etc.

I really have no idea if they are culturally incapable, or plain unwilling to properly integrate and assimilate the culture around them.... or if most if not all governments in Europe don't know how to frame it so that it happens.

Admittedly, my views are extremely biased by the experience I have of having lived years near a roman neighborhood, attending a school with plenty of roman students, and therefore I'm probably unable of seeing a wider/bigger picture.

that is exactly the problem. They stay together and the only contact with them are either their kids being force to beg or pickpoket and their young man to steal scraps on constructions sites to sell back.

It's very hard to understand the problem because how biaised we are by the very little and negative contact we have with these people.

Sadly it's more than enough to have bigotry going on...

Because no one wants them around, they keep moving from town to town and their kids can't go to school, have a correct and stable education and can't grasp at good rooted jobs... So they do like their friends and neightbors and older brothers and father before them... they stick together and work here and there to make money how the can...

And when politicians talk about them, pitchforks rise when they even say there is a problem and people yell descrimination.

If we can't even say there is a problem, how can we talk about the problem, let alone try to solve the problem ?

I'm sure they wish to integrate and have better life. Yet no one can help because no one can talk about it.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

That was offensive but what you said earlier, quoted below, wasn't? ...

Are you a joke character?

No? This is a thread about a group of people who feel persecuted in Europe trying to flee to the US. I hope they achieve that goal.

Permission to do what? Not follow the law of the land?

I suppose if they all camped up on Dartmoor and lived as hunter-gatherers then no-one would give a toss.

 

[E-flux]

At least from what I've learned from the local Roma population here (Finland) they really frown upon working for anyone. So they always have to be some kind of one man jobs/entrepreneur stuff going on. (buying/selling used cars and other stuff is popular here).

Technically, they are called Kale here in Finland, those begging on the streets begging are probably not part of the original Finnish gypsy population, i'm not 100% sure but i think that northern kale gypsies are in some places referred as "black" gypsies.

 

[Frozenprince]

No? This is a thread about a group of people who feel persecuted in Europe trying to flee to the US. I hope they achieve that goal.



I suppose if they all camped up on Dartmoor and lived as hunter-gatherers then no-one would give a toss.

Nothing about this is bigoted at all. Nope. Not a bit.

 

[Dude Abides]

Yet again the Greatest Country In The History Of The World has to clean up a mess created by Old World ethnic hatred.

 

[Truant]

Roma are disliked all around here in Norway. It's somewhat understandable, as they're constantly playing super annoying music in the streets, loitering and generally being really messy. I guess thousands of years of prosecution, hatered and violence does a lot with your sense of worth and cultural identity.

The government has tried to give them housing, but the results have been disasterous based on what I've read. They're a tough people to integrate, but there are some success stories where families have established themselves as regular citizens with educations and jobs.

 

[VegiHam]

I don't feel like the argument of drawing direct comparisons with other oppressed minorities is a particularly helpful one. A lot of the problem here comes from incompatibility between stationary and nomadic lifestyles. The more and more modern our settled world gets the more we sort of require that people have a fixed location for taxation purposes and stuff. Now we have the infrastructure to permit frequent changes to individual's addresses but our systems just aren't built to accommodate large groups of people without fixed addresses who can show up and take advantage of local resources without advanced warning and preparation. Discrimination doesn't help, but I don't think the solution is as easy as just asking Europe to stop being racist.

 

[CrunchyB]

The gist of this: 25% of Roma teenagers (younger then 18) had a criminal record. Above 18, 75% of Roma in the municipality of Nieuwegein had a criminal record. For non-Roma in the region, that's respectively 2% and 15%. This was analyzed quite a while ago (2009) so no idea what the current situation is.

https://www.rtvutrecht.nl/nieuws/1130321/90-procent-romajongeren-in-aanraking-met-politie.html

Approximately 90% of Roma youths have had contact with the police. That generally means suspected of a crime, not necessarily persecuted.

This seems awfully high IMO, but the numbers are internal police statistics, uncovered by a reputable news program.

It's stuff like this in particular that causes outrage in Europe:

Roma also employ their children in their crimes. Because of their strong family ties and family depedency, the children don't have a choice in the matter and the police is powerless. Many children are younger than 12 and therefore untouchable to the judicial system

So then social services get involved, children are taken from their parents but they invariably escape and join their families again, sometimes in another country, under another name:

http://nos.nl/artikel/2112690-uitgebuite-roma-kinderen-gered-en-teruggehaald-naar-nederland.html

6 exploited kids recovered from Barcelona, 4 were under supervision of Dutch social services. The oldest was 15, the youngest a baby.

A lot more awful stuff is mentioned in that article, including suspicions of sexual abuse.

Reaction of the Landelijk Platform Roma on the Nieuwegein numbers :

People have the wrong image of us, that makes it difficult to live a normal life

Sadly, this is human nature. If you're part of the majority, any undesirable actions are seen as the exception. If you're part of a minority, undesirable actions are seen as the rule.

 

[Jasup]

From my own experience, the government houses them free of charge, public health service free of any tax contribution, free public education. After that they are left to their own devices, which often leads to kids dropping out of school really early, communities that don't like to interact with outsiders, life of crime etc.

I really have no idea if they are culturally incapable, or plain unwilling to properly integrate and assimilate the culture around them.... or if most if not all governments in Europe don't know how to frame it so that it happens.

Admittedly, my views are extremely biased by the experience I have of having lived years near a roman neighborhood, attending a school with plenty of roman students, and therefore I'm probably unable of seeing a wider/bigger picture.

It's the good old "out of sight, out of mind" -approach. Just pay them enough money to not feel bad about yourself. A bit demeaning to be honest.

What is needed is active cooperation, and I'd say acceptance. A prevalent problem with many minorities is that the mainstream culture is usually geared heavily towards the majority, this can barriers in education and employment. If you're of oppressed minority, attitudes towards oppressors institutions can be very negative indeed. I mean, why bother if the employers wouldn't hire you anyway?

 

[Reckheim]

I can't speak for Slovakia, but here in the UK I think the Roma are hated by mostly the same people that hate immigrants. However on top of that there is much greater apathy from the "non-hateful" crowd, probably fueled by the Roma's failure (refusal?) to integrate.

Basically the treatment of immigrants is a hot topic, whereas most people prefer to forget the Roma exist until they are living nearby (at which point they will be shoo'd away).


(This is just my own observation, I wouldn't consider myself remotely educated on the Roma or their situation across the UK/Europe.)

As someone that grew up in Slovakia, they are definitely hated by majority of the population. In case you were wondering.

Slovakia is not exactly the most progressive country out there but in my opinion its getting a bit better.

 

[Jasup]

As someone that grew up in Slovakia, they are definitely hated by majority of the population. In case you were wondering.

Slovakia is not exactly the most progressive country out there but in my opinion its getting a bit better.

Even in Finland, which some might consider a progressive country, about half of the employers wouldn't hire a Romani employee.

But it's easier to shout "get a job" than actually tackling the problems.

 

[Hypnotoad]

It's the good old "out of sight, out of mind" -approach. Just pay them enough money to not feel bad about yourself. A bit demeaning to be honest.

What is needed is active cooperation, and I'd say acceptance. A prevalent problem with many minorities is that the mainstream culture is usually geared heavily towards the majority, this can barriers in education and employment. If you're of oppressed minority, attitudes towards oppressors institutions can be very negative indeed. I mean, why bother if the employers wouldn't hire you anyway?

Well they don't seem to mind free handouts from the institutions of their "oppressors" (seriously, in what way are Roma and Sinti oppressed?). Large numbers have moved into Western Europe and live on welfare, complimented by begging - though the money ends up in their home countries. A particular insidious and ingenious scheme at the same time is faking work contracts in Germany and later claiming unemployment money, while regularly commuting back to their home country or even moving back for good, returning to Western Europe when the money dries up.

 

[Khoryos]

The Amish are incompatible with modern society but they thrive in their own segregated communities and they are doing fine, so do many Indian reservations, and they all work fine within the legal framework of the US. I'm sure Romas could too if they were given permission instead of abuse.

Those are both settled cultures - they can be left to do their own thing.
Nomadic cultures are different by definition.

 

[*Splinter]

Don't be fooled, there's no lack of self awareness.

Yeah Quiche knows exactly what he's doing.

 

[Palmer_v1]

in modern times, are Romani nomadic by choice or by circumstance? What about in the past?

 

[BeeDog]

The recent Roma migrations across Europe has been very visible to me here in Sweden at least. When I grew up I don't think I ever met any and the only time I heard about them was in racist sounding tirades about them having apparently stolen something.

Nowadays though I see them everywhere. They sit around begging for money outside almost every store and harass people for money at train station. It's not that rare to read articles about them squatting somewhere and being impossible to get rid of either. It's quite difficult to keep a neutral perspective of them as a people, but at the same time I know that these are just the worst (and sadly most visible) examples. My parents' neighbors are Roma, and I wouldn't have ever known if nobody told me, they just seemed to be from some kind of Southern European-ish culture. That's the thing though, "good" Roma are more or less invisible and people only see the "bad" ones.

The term Roma has also been poisoned incredibly quickly. Roma became commonplace because Gypsy was considered offensive but now it's more or less seen as just as bad, although with slightly different connotations. Gypsies steal, while Roma sit around begging for money.

Yep. I'm from Sweden as well and pretty much share this view, though my experiences with them are (quite a bit) worse. Still, despite those experiences, it's easy to see just how exposed and vulnerable this group of people is.

 

[bishoptl]

I wish UK gypsies all the best with their move to the US. I'd even be willing to chip in for the flights! Are they leaving the caravans here, or having them shipped over?

It's really our fault for having such poorly guarded copper wiring.

Please continue, Governor.

 

[Armaros]

I wonder if the peoplle on the first page that were complaining about 'premeptively bringing up racist posts' came back to see how the thread is now.

There is a reason why it was said, because these threads run the same course and have for years.

 

[Joni]

The Amish are incompatible with modern society but they thrive in their own segregated communities and they are doing fine, so do many Indian reservations, and they all work fine within the legal framework of the US. I'm sure Romas could too if they were given permission instead of abuse.

The problem is how to give permission to a nomadic culture to settle in a community? You're basically comparing them to two communities that got moved off to an empty area of land out of sight, especially the Indians. They'd need to buy specialized areas in all the places they typically pass, as the current problem is often them staying on land that isn't theirs or staying too long when they have permission. The United States seems more suited for a nomadic life, considering the open areas, a higher number of trailer parks and certainly a RV culture.

 

[*Splinter]

I wonder if the peoplle on the first page that were complaining about 'premeptively bringing up racist posts' came back to see how the thread is now.

There is a reason why it was said, because these threads run the same course and have for years.

There isn't a reason beyond being able to say "I told you so", glad Besada knocked it on the head.

 

[Jasup]

Well they don't seem to mind free handouts from the institutions of their "oppressors" (seriously, in what way are Roma and Sinti oppressed?). Large numbers have moved into Western Europe and live on welfare, complimented by begging - though the money ends up in their home countries. A particular insidious and ingenious scheme at the same time is faking work contracts in Germany and later claiming unemployment money, while regularly commuting back to their home country or even moving back for good, returning to Western Europe when the money dries up.

Well let's talk about oppression. These are links to different European Commission's papers:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1444909812175&uri=CELEX:52010DC0133

Yet a significant part of the 10-12 million Roma in Europe live in extreme marginalisation in both rural and urban areas and in very poor socio-economic conditions. The discrimination, social exclusion and segregation which Roma face are mutually reinforcing. They face limited access to high quality education, difficulties in integration into the labour market, correspondingly low income levels, and poor health which in turn results in higher mortality rates and lower life expectancy compared with non-Roma. Roma exclusion entails not only significant human suffering but also significant direct costs for public budgets as well as indirect costs through losses in productivity.

EC's report on discrimination of Roma children in education:
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/discrimination/files/roma_childdiscrimination_en.pdf (pdf)

Romani children are often concentrated in sub-standard schools or classes that follow substandard curricula, which clearly amounts to direct discrimination. Albeit, as a general rule, the majority of Member States take positive action measures to promote the education of Romani children, education in the minority languages spoken by the Roma is seldom provided due to the lack of teaching materials and teachers proficient in these languages. Pre-school
facilities that could successfully bridge the language deficiencies are either non-existent or not available to the Roma most in need of such facilities.

EC: What works for Roma inclusion in the EU
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/discrimination/files/whatworksfor_romainclusion_en.pdf

Generally speaking the Roma are one of the most marginalised social groups in the EU, facing deep social problems related to low levels of education, high unemployment, inadequate housing, poor health, and wide-ranging discrimination, all of which are interrelated and create a vicious circle of social exclusion. With the exception of specific Roma groups and individual cases, the gap between Roma communities and the majority population has not been bridged in many countries in the past two decades.

The vicious circle of the intergenerational transmission of poverty and social exclusion is determined by the lack of guarantee of rights, persistent discrimination activated by racism by the majority population, spatial segregation, lack of access to services and the absence of consistent policies aimed at overcoming these trends.

Or would you rather use the word discrimination?

 

[mnz]

in modern times, are Romani nomadic by choice or by circumstance? What about in the past?

They aren't all nomadic. From what I understand they were often forced to settle under communist rule in Eastern Europe which resulted in Ghettos that still exist. So now that these countries got free movement within the EU they're looking for a better life in the west and they aren't prepared either.
But even the question is kind of showing the problem. It's a culture that's been doing it for centuries, it's not a simple pro/contra list.