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[duckroll]

Avatar will always be considered a 2009-grossing film.

Bay will use his gazillions as kleenex tissues to wipe the bitter tears.

Yeah, you're right. It's really too bad.

Oh well, there's always Bayformers 3!

 

[Zeliard]

Domestic gross isn't even as significant as it would be for a lot of American films since Avatar is making a lot more money overseas. Foreign gross is what will carry it past a billion.

 

[WrikaWrek]

The difference is that Bay made two movies for 350 million dollars. Which made like 1.5b.

Bay made that in 5 years. Talk all the shit you want, but that motherfucker is money, he will get dady a hit.

 

[jett]

Yeah, you're right. It's really too bad.

Oh well, there's always Bayformers 3!

Bayformers 3D: The Quest for Mo' Money.

 

[Dabookerman]

random people, maybe one day someone of them will invent a cure for cancer and the baby will become hitler 2.0, or the other way around, thing is you don't know, they are all random people you have never meet, don't know their future or past and have no personal connection whatsoever with them

Well since I don't know them, and I have to choose one. I will simply toss a coin or something. I'm good for it.

 

[duckroll]

Bayformers 3D: The Quest for Mo' Money.

He already has my money, that's for sure!

 

[gdt]

Watching True Lies right now on A&E.

It just started.

 

[FirewalkR]

The difference is that Bay made two movies for 350 million dollars. Which made like 1.5b.

Bay made that in 5 years. Talk all the shit you want, but that motherfucker is money, he will get dady a hit.

Let's see how long it takes for Cameron to come out with the sequels and how much money they will make.

Fwiw, Bay IS money, I just wish his movies were not just visuals/boom awesome, but he gave it a shot at making something not totally stupid, because I believe that he can but just doesn't care. I actually enjoyed the first Transformers movie as the stuff of popcorn that it was, but the second film was incredibly obnoxious, a downhill ride of stupidity.

Avatar's plot may be simple but at it's worst it is still 1000 times better than TF2. Even duckroll dies inside a little every single time he grudgingly admits this to himself. :lol

 

[duckroll]

Avatar's plot may be simple but at it's worst it is still 1000 times better than TF2. Even duckroll dies inside a little every single time he grudgingly admits this to himself. :lol

If that were true, I'll be a walking corpse right now. Come on, I really like Avatar. Obviously I enjoyed TF2 for entirely different reasons, and I have never called it a good piece of storytelling or even a coherent plot. This idea that a fan of Bay cannot also be a fan of Cameron, and would actually get upset because Cameron made a better movie than Bay, even though that's what Cameron has always done, is silly.

 

[jett]

I can't even enjoy the visuals of the TF movies, they're just ugly to look at as far as I'm concerned.

Truthfully I find Bay to be entirely unambitious. Look at Devastator in TF2. Instead of having an awesome fight against multiple autobots or OptimusJetFire he goes out like a chump from human missiles. The fug? What a fucking waste. Pointless inclusion.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

So, Avatar's 10 day total is going to be high.

http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/grossbydays.htm?days=10&p=.htm

It'll be around number 9. When looking at the top 20 it's the only movie without multiple years of sequel/comic/novel/cartoon popularity. All 20 have proven to be profitable and highly liked in the past in some way.

Is ticket price showing dominance? Old scriptment hype? Tech hype? Rewatchability? Avatar Day a success? Word of mouth?

 

[gdt]

We need Arnold as head Na'vi in Avatar2.

The Na'vinator.

 

[duckroll]

Truthfully I find Bay to be entirely unambitious. Look at Devastator in TF2. Instead of having an awesome fight against multiple autobots or OptimusJetFire he goes out like a chump from human missiles. The fug? What a fucking waste. Pointless inclusion.

I agree. Devastator was a total waste, and it's pretty obvious he was sort of inserted into the movie as an after thought instead of being the MAIN EVENT like he should have been. The Fallen shouldn't even have fought at all, it was really a weak fight. He should have summoned Devastator and then jumped into a cockpit or something to CONTROL Devastator directly. That would have been a fucking epic battle. Instead the best fight sequence in the movie ended barely half way through the film.

 

[Rentahamster]

I'm thinking the sequels will center, at least at the beginning, on what exactly is the "Pandora brain", if it's something that evolved or was conceived by something else, some older race, that might eventually show up.

Then the movie will go from not only ripping off (The Last Samurai, Dune, Dances with Wolves, Pocahontas, Star Trek: Insurrection, Surrogates), but also (Starcraft, Halo, and Babylon 5) .

 

[Dabookerman]

I can't even enjoy the visuals of the TF movies, they're just ugly to look at as far as I'm concerned.

Truthfully I find Bay to be entirely unambitious. Look at Devastator in TF2. Instead of having an awesome fight against multiple autobots or OptimusJetFire he goes out like a chump from human missiles. The fug? What a fucking waste. Pointless inclusion.

Regarding the effects, I felt sorry for ILM. They clearly have an ability to make some awesome looking stuff, but Bay's direction is so incoherent when it comes to action scenes it's all just lost. Seriously awful.


Back to Avatar though. I think Jake and his crew should head on south into The Barrens and team up with Thrall.

 

[duckroll]

Regarding the effects, I felt sorry for ILM. They clearly have an ability to make some awesome looking stuff, but Bay's direction is so incoherent when it comes to action scenes it's all just lost. Seriously awful.

ILM's problem seems to be that they're too much of a brand name these days. So much so that they're the go-to play for most directors, studios, producers who just want "the best" and who don't particularly have a great specific vision for how effects are pioneered or used. The directors who actually personally have specific visions that are pioneered and created by effects tend to go to WETA these days.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Then the movie will go from not only ripping off (The Last Samurai, Dune, Dances with Wolves, Pocahontas, Star Trek: Insurrection, Surrogates), but also (Starcraft, Halo, and Babylon 5) .

I'd like to point out in American history there were nature loving beings that were relocated because of resource needs. That some of the technically advanced beings fell in love with the nature loving beings. So, I find it hard to give credit only to those movies.

 

[neoism]

Forgetting about Jake, the Na'vi have utterly no responsibility to support humanities unrelenting consumption of materials, sacrificing their culture and many of their lives in the meantime. Humanity just rocked up to their planet and told them they're basically going to do what they want. At the end of it, and since the film states there's no longer any green on Earth, it suggests that Pandora would end up just as dead as the Earth making us comparative to locusts.

Now back to Jake, in Avatar he made a concious decision to leave humanity behind and become one of 'the people'. This happened well before he cast aside his human body. No longer does he serve the best interests of humanity, but instead the Na'vi. Of course both parties must seek what's best for them, but since he is no longer for humanity, but for the Na'vi, his decision to stand for them is justified. He's just looking out for his people.

As an audience we are following Jake's story, so it's little surprise we are sympathetic to the Na'vi since the stories narrative is explaining how Jake came to sympathise with them and why he made his decision.

That being said, I'd be sympathetic to the Na'vi anyway. RDA may not represent humanity, but it likely has world government backing if it's mining a resource the world economy has become reliant upon. A government backed military invasion of Pandora for Unobtainium would not be unlike invading Iraq for oil. For humanity to sustain itself it must grow and consume. I'd like to think Gaia bitchslaps us back to the stone age before we start destroying other worlds, or else where does it stop? We may as well be the Aliens in Independance Day, or the aliens from 'V' in that case.

Well said sir! I agree 100%!

 

[Zeliard]

ILM's problem seems to be that they're too much of a brand name these days. So much so that they're the go-to play for most directors, studios, producers who just want "the best" and who don't particularly have a great specific vision for how effects are pioneered or used. The directors who actually personally have specific visions that are pioneered and created by effects tend to go to WETA these days.

There isn't really a problem with how the visuals look in Transformers 1 and 2 - if nothing else, you can easily see where the money went. But the action is so poorly shot in general that it's difficult to get a good appreciation of what ILM has done with the CGI. It's not just Bay, who gets the brunt of the criticisms for these things, but also whoever it is he has editing his films (though I guess Bay has some control over that as well).

 

[Dabookerman]

ILM's problem seems to be that they're too much of a brand name these days. So much so that they're the go-to play for most directors, studios, producers who just want "the best" and who don't particularly have a great specific vision for how effects are pioneered or used. The directors who actually personally have specific visions that are pioneered and created by effects tend to go to WETA these days.

ILM are beyond a brand name though. They are pretty much one of the best at what they do. But obviously, they are there to provide a service to the Director.
It's Director's responsibility to decide what they want. POTC was great effects wise, Iron-Man too. Michael Bay chose how the bots would look, how they would move and animate. He just doesn't have an understand that less is more. For him, more is more.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

ILM's problem seems to be that they're too much of a brand name these days. So much so that they're the go-to play for most directors, studios, producers who just want "the best" and who don't particularly have a great specific vision for how effects are pioneered or used. The directors who actually personally have specific visions that are pioneered and created by effects tend to go to WETA these days.

Interesting point.

 

[Combine]

Thought about sequel potential; if what's said in Pandorapedia is true there are probably about 4 ships in transit to Pandora at the end of the film, and there's no way they'll be turned around when they're travelling at 0.7c. In fact, until Venture Star (The one Jake arrives on and the humans are sent away in) gets back there probably will be more sent off. That means about 1000 marines and personal including avatars arriving on Pandora.

I really want more updates to Pandorapedia, the ISV Venture Star article is really interesting.

The primary factor currently impacting sequel theories is of course, the passage of time between travel from Earth to Pandora. A "typical" response from the RDA that people are imagining (Selfridge returns home, advises higher-ups (probably he gets canned in the process for his failures) and they generate a response to be sent back to Pandora) would take 12 years time. A 12 year time skip on Pandora for the sequel, would I believe be a bit much, especially if Cameron wants to follow Jake and Neytiri again.

There are other factors though, the most unknown of them though is the communications capabilities between Pandora and Earth (never addressed), one would imagine Selfridge would have immediately sent an SOS after Quaritch and his whole army went down. And then, there are the fact that more ISV's are scheduled to arrive, the next one in less than a year. And the fact that the Venture Star itself should still should actually need to remain in orbit of Pandora for at least 8-9 months longer (if the time in the movie is correct) in order to refuel the ship.

Oh well, I'm sure Cameron will somehow figure all this out. Hopefully the novel will provide some more insights into some of these things.

 

[FirewalkR]

If that were true, I'll be a walking corpse right now. Come on, I really like Avatar. Obviously I enjoyed TF2 for entirely different reasons, and I have never called it a good piece of storytelling or even a coherent plot. This idea that a fan of Bay cannot also be a fan of Cameron, and would actually get upset because Cameron made a better movie than Bay, even though that's what Cameron has always done, is silly.

I didn't imply one can't be a fan of both, or that you weren't. Just poking fun at your mock-sadness every time someone says something bad about TF2.

I pretty much enjoyed all Bay movies I've seen. Armageddon and TF1 were fun for instance. I think TF2 was below a certain threshold though. Still, iirc he himself admitted TF2's plot wasn't that much, that they had trouble because of the writers' strike and ended up writing the script as they went along in production. And as I said before, I believe he's actually capable of good smart movies made with the customary eye-candy He just seems to stop developing when things are "good enough" for people to mindlessly enjoy. Besides, one cannot hate a guy that did that Verizon FIOS commercial.

Edit: FIAL at mentioning ID. Could swear Bay had something to do with it tho.
Edit 2: I like Pearl Harbor and especially The Rock. Love that one.

 

[duckroll]

There isn't really a problem with how the visuals look in Transformers 1 and 2 - if nothing else, you can easily see where the money went. But the action is so poorly shot in general that it's difficult to get a good appreciation of what ILM has done with the CGI. It's not just Bay, who gets the brunt of the criticisms for these things, but also whoever it is he has editing his films (though I guess Bay has some control over that as well).

ILM are beyond a brand name though. They are pretty much one of the best at what they do. But obviously, they are there to provide a service to the Director.
It's Director's responsibility to decide what they want. POTC was great effects wise, Iron-Man too. Michael Bay chose how the bots would look, how they would move and animate. He just doesn't have an understand that less is more. For him, more is more.

To clarify, I wasn't saying ILM had any problem providing the best visuals in the business. I was simply pointing how that how they are viewed in the industry directly affects what they end up working on, and how the resulting output is because of what they work on. Look at the big movies ILM works on most of the time these days. You'll see franchises, adaptations, etc. Some of great movies, some are good movies, some are stinkers, but they are never very AMBITIOUS movies especially not from the effects stand point. Even for PotC3, the finale sequences were a total disappointment in terms of visual pay off imo. There just isn't anything exciting or very climatic about the actual visual direction or design in the climax that makes you go "WHOA I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THAT BEFORE!".

On the other hand, WETA has just in recent memory worked on District 9 and Avatar. Definitely stuff I have never seen before in terms of how a certain type of movie can be realized with great visuals. LotR is another great example. Obviously the fact that WETA is probably cheaper is a draw for some directors, but I would think that it is also because they have less workload than ILM, and hence can spend more attention and time on major projects which allow them to work more closely with a director to present a specific vision that can only be achieved with the help of visual effects.

 

[GhaleonEB]

For those lamenting Avatar's weekend estimate as just barely falling below a couple records, keep this in mind: the estimate is for Avatar to drop 20% from Saturday to Sunday.

Last weekend, the drop was 3.1%. So there's probably a high degree of uncertainty in these numbers.

Box Office Mojo hasn't updated international numbers since Wednesday. But if the 2:1 ratio has held since then, WW gross is at $640m, placing it between Kung Fu Panda and Episode II Attack of the Clones on the all-time world-wide earnings list, at #42.

In 10 days.

 

[TacticalFox88]

I honestly wished Cameron would've directed the TF movies. Oh what could've been!

 

[neoism]

so you would support the extinction of humanity (talking in general here, not specific to avatar) in order for an alien species to survive?

Seeing how it's not their fault human's can't take care of the planet, why should a alien species be destroyed. I know the story focused on the na'vi, and it made the humans look bad, but they do that on their own!

 

[Kai Dracon]

On sequel possibilities / ethical choices in the movie:

One thing we didn't see was just how humanity presented themselves to the Na'vi when they arrived. We see that they built a school to teach the Na'vi human languages. But did they treat the Na'vi with any respect - even cursory - in terms of asking their permission and/or cooperation to mine their land? Did humanity stop and ask the questions like "okay, now we have met intelligent aliens. How do we determine ownership of other planets we land on?"

One thing we don't know is just how totally corrupt RDA is in all this. Perhaps humanity originally made an agreement to dig certain parts of Pandora with the Na'vi's permission even if it was just for show, and RDA has used the 12 year round-trip travel lag to Pandora to begin abusing the situation since the last major refresh of officials and personnel. A whole lot can happen in a decade.

Grace's book, which was published on Earth obviously, may be over 12 years old and as far as Earth was concerned or the last decade, the situation on Pandora is totally different.

 

[Rentahamster]

I'd like to point out in American history there were nature loving beings that were relocated because of resource needs. That some of the technically advanced beings fell in love with the nature loving beings. So, I find it hard to give credit only to those movies.

OK fine, then. Let me change that to - Ripping off The Conquest of Granada

I honestly wished Cameron would've directed the TF movies. Oh what could've been!

I wish this had been true.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Good points Duckroll.
I think Weta is excellent for ILM and vice versa. ILM have always been the kings of the hill but Weta is definitely the only studio that can help the whole industry step it up. I love that they continue to one up one another.

Also on a side note I heard that the effects budget for District 9 was 30k that isn't true right?

 

[Zeliard]

To clarify, I wasn't saying ILM had any problem providing the best visuals in the business. I was simply pointing how that how they are viewed in the industry directly affects what they end up working on, and how the resulting output is because of what they work on. Look at the big movies ILM works on most of the time these days. You'll see franchises, adaptations, etc. Some of great movies, some are good movies, some are stinkers, but they are never very AMBITIOUS movies especially not from the effects stand point. Even for PotC3, the finale sequences were a total disappointment in terms of visual pay off imo. There just isn't anything exciting or very climatic about the actual visual direction or design in the climax that makes you go "WHOA I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THAT BEFORE!".

On the other hand, WETA has just in recent memory worked on District 9 and Avatar. Definitely stuff I have never seen before in terms of how a certain type of movie can be realized with great visuals. LotR is another great example. Obviously the fact that WETA is probably cheaper is a draw for some directors, but I would think that it is also because they have less workload than ILM, and hence can spend more attention and time on major projects which allow them to work more closely with a director to present a specific vision that can only be achieved with the help of visual effects.

Very true. Good points. WETA does seem to be a bit more of a specialty crew, even if that was ultimately unintentional as opposed to one of their corporate guidelines. It is curious how that sort of came about, since it seems more of a natural result of the actual movies WETA happened to work on, rather than anything specific to either ILM or WETA (other than perhaps their cost to movie studios).

 

[Veidt]

Good points Duckroll.
I think Weta is excellent for ILM and vice versa. ILM have always been the kings of the hill but Weta is definitely the only studio that can help the whole industry step it up. I love that they continue to one up one another.

Also on a side note I heard that the effects budget for District 9 was 30k that isn't true right?

Budget for D9 was 30 million. And Peter Jackson helped keep cost of CGI down since he's very good with WETA.

 

[neoism]

Very true. Good points. WETA does seem to be a bit more of a specialty crew, even if that was ultimately unintentional as opposed to one of their corporate guidelines. It is curious how that sort of came about, since it seems more of a natural result of the actual movies WETA happened to work on, rather than anything specific to either ILM or WETA (other than perhaps their cost to movie studios).

You know I always wondered did Peter Jackson help start WETA. It's a new zealand company right??

 

[StuBurns]

Just saw a bit of a pirated version of Avatar, holy God it looks like shit, I can't believe people watch that trash, I hate to be the kind of person who writes off people's opinions, but if anyone sees that shit and tells me Avatar is crap, I'm going to consider their opinion null and void.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Budget for D9 was 30 million. And Peter Jackson helped keep cost of CGI down since he's very good with WETA.

30 million? Holy shit. A movie with a 30 million budget has a more interesting "art Style" and CGI than some of the heavy blockbusters. Sad....

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Budget for D9 was 30 million. And Peter Jackson helped keep cost of CGI down since he's very good with WETA.

Ahh 30 million thank you. That makes much more sense. Man that is another movie this year that just looked excellent.

ILM did Star Trek right?

Also I saw that some crazy bastard several pages back said he thought the models in Avatar weren't impressive. That dude is certifiable.

You know I always wondered did Peter Jackson help start WETA. It's a new zealand company right??

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't WETA and PJ kind of like ILM and Lucas? Doesn't PJ own WETA?

 

[GhaleonEB]

To clarify, I wasn't saying ILM had any problem providing the best visuals in the business. I was simply pointing how that how they are viewed in the industry directly affects what they end up working on, and how the resulting output is because of what they work on. Look at the big movies ILM works on most of the time these days. You'll see franchises, adaptations, etc. Some of great movies, some are good movies, some are stinkers, but they are never very AMBITIOUS movies especially not from the effects stand point. Even for PotC3, the finale sequences were a total disappointment in terms of visual pay off imo. There just isn't anything exciting or very climatic about the actual visual direction or design in the climax that makes you go "WHOA I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THAT BEFORE!".

On the other hand, WETA has just in recent memory worked on District 9 and Avatar. Definitely stuff I have never seen before in terms of how a certain type of movie can be realized with great visuals. LotR is another great example. Obviously the fact that WETA is probably cheaper is a draw for some directors, but I would think that it is also because they have less workload than ILM, and hence can spend more attention and time on major projects which allow them to work more closely with a director to present a specific vision that can only be achieved with the help of visual effects.

Excellent points. And on a related note, I think it's worth noting just how many movies they've made where breakthroughs in CG characters were essential. Off the top of my head - LotR (Gollum), King Kong, Avatar. The visions for these characters are integral to the director's vision for the film, and could not be pulled off without the close collaboration you described.

In can only think of the Pirates movies for character work ILM has done, though I may be just not recalling them.

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't WETA and PJ kind of like ILM and Lucas? Doesn't PJ own WETA?

Yes.

 

[Medalion]

There was a time when ILM fell behind in good movie CG for awhile in the late 90's and early 00's... a lot of the biggest movies that were not mainly or at all ILM involved were praised for special effects, often citing them better than ILM's works at the time.

 

[Veidt]

30 million? Holy shit. A movie with a 30 million budget has a more interesting "art Style" and CGI than some of the heavy blockbusters. Sad....

Yeah. Pretty damn amazing.

Ahh 30 million thank you. That makes much more sense. Man that is another movie this year that just looked excellent.

ILM did Star Trek right?

Also I saw that some crazy bastard several pages back said he thought the models in Avatar weren't impressive. That dude is certifiable.

Yep. ILM did Star Trek and also the epic final battle scene in Avatar.

 

[FoneBone]

On the other hand, WETA has just in recent memory worked on District 9 and Avatar. Definitely stuff I have never seen before in terms of how a certain type of movie can be realized with great visuals.

Despite the Jackson connection, WETA actually did very little on District 9: http://www.awn.com/articles/people/neill-blomkamp-talks-idistrict-9i

 

[StuBurns]

Despite the Jackson connection, WETA actually did very little on District 9: http://www.awn.com/articles/people/neill-blomkamp-talks-idistrict-9i

Indeed, at Comic Con Jackson said the intention was for WETA to do it, but they were too busy with Avatar. Makes me wonder who did the Lovely Bones CG work?

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Yeah. Pretty damn amazing.



Yep. ILM did Star Trek and also the epic final battle scene in Avatar.

final battle was split between weta. all ships were ILM and every thing else was Weta I believe.

 

[Evlar]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't WETA and PJ kind of like ILM and Lucas? Doesn't PJ own WETA?

I don't recall the precise relationship between WETA and PJ at the moment, but the studio was certainly started as Jackson's personal effects house. They originally specialized in puppetry, models, and practical effects, and did work for NZ commercials and such along with Jackson's pre-LOTR films. I don't know when precisely they were formed as an independent entity rather than just 'PJ and his friends working on the cool effects stuff'.

 

[Zeliard]

final battle was split between weta. all ships were ILM and every thing else was Weta.

Pretty neat how they've been working on the same projects recently. I know it's pure business, but it's still pretty cool. It always ends up very seamless, too.

 

[Dabookerman]

I don't recall the precise relationship between WETA and PJ at the moment, but the studio was certainly started as Jackson's personal effects house. They originally specialized in puppetry, models, and practical effects, and did work for NZ commercials and such along with Jackson's pre-LOTR films. I don't know when precisely they were formed as an independent entity rather than just 'PJ and his friends working on the cool effects stuff'.

They started as an CGI house or Weta Digital first came about when Heavenly Creatures was being made.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Wait so did WETA share the tech they'd been using for Avatar? Cause I find it hard to believe an entire company can learn the tech thoroughly enough in post production, to help render out a final battle of the most technologically advanced movie of the decade.

 

[Veidt]

Wait so did WETA share the tech they'd been using for Avatar? Cause I find it hard to believe an entire company can learn the tech thoroughly enough in post production, to help render out a final battle of the most technologically advanced movie of the decade.

Yes. WETA shared what they had with ILM and ILM worked on it together with them.

 

[Combine]

final battle was split between weta. all ships were ILM and every thing else was Weta I believe.

I believe Xia said that they at ILM did the entire final battle sequence.

 

[StuBurns]

I believe Xia said that they at ILM did the entire final battle sequence.

It's pretty incredible in terms of consistency if that's the case. It's a very different feel, but that's no doubt the direction, visually there is literally no difference. Stunning really.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Wait so did WETA share the tech they'd been using for Avatar? Cause I find it hard to believe an entire company can learn the tech thoroughly enough in post production, to help render out a final battle of the most technologically advanced movie of the decade.

ILM, in fact, focused on vehicle-oriented shots, which numbered around 250, according to Letteri. These included the shuttle, the Samson, the Scorpion and the Dragon helicopters and the AMP suit. Scenes included the opening fly over the Pandoran jungle, the shuttle re-entering and landing on Hell's Gate, the first glimpse of the floating mountains, the vehicular assault on the Hometree and parts of the explosive climax.

"For the most part, all of the vehicles were designed and textured by Weta, so we built them up to parity of look," explains John Knoll. "The only exception was the Dragon, Quaritch's big helicopter. They built the model but hadn't textured it, so we did the texturing here.

http://www.awn.com/articles/visual-effects/avatar-game-changer/page/6%2C1

Indeed, for Letteri and the entire Weta Digital team, Avatar exceeds Lord of the Rings and King Kong in both complexity and achievement. In fact, Weta worked on 1,800 out of approximately 2,200 shots. But the experience transcends mere shot count.

http://www.awn.com/articles/visual-effects/avatar-game-changer/page/4%2C1