BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Dead said:
I liked the New World but it just seemed a little all over the place for me. Though I thought the acting was excellent.
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Rottenwatch: AVATAR (82%)
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I liked the New World but it just seemed a little all over the place for me. Though I thought the acting was excellent.
LINK.AGE76
Member
Watched it again today
I thought the non 3D version was better. I found the colors and the brightness worse in the 3D version, but regardless of that, the Movie was awesome.
I thought the non 3D version was better. I found the colors and the brightness worse in the 3D version, but regardless of that, the Movie was awesome.
LINK.AGE76
Member
This movie was truly an art masterpiece.
Edit: 2nd showing made me realize its better than I thought. The Art and OST are fantastic, I can't stop listening to the OST. I need to buy it for better quality, Youtube doesn't do it for me :lol
Edit: 2nd showing made me realize its better than I thought. The Art and OST are fantastic, I can't stop listening to the OST. I need to buy it for better quality, Youtube doesn't do it for me :lol
Enosh
Member
what? noKarma Kramer said:
there is nothing to think about beacose the movie already tells you what to think
you are suposed to think nature=good, technology=evil, you are suposed to love the na'vi connection with nature and hate the exploitation of the RDA, there is nothing to think about beacose the good guys are potrayed as SO good that they have no character flaws whatsoever and the evil guys are just evil period with no redeming features
Hehe indeed. If they make an Avatar 2 sequel, I want them toEnosh said:
go deeper into the culture and lifestyle of the Na'Vi. Jake has only lived with them for a couple of months so he barely scratched the surface of this entirely new specie. As such, I can accept that Jake see them as benevolent beings in this movie. I want them to show some flaws and depth of the the Na'Vi in the sequel that may or may not make Jake question his decision to become a full Na'Vi.
Forkball said:
Completely agree. I saw it with a friend a few days ago and we both left the theater feeling incredibly disappointed, mostly because of the afwul script, dialogue and acting. Yeah the visuals are impressive, but that's just about the only positive thing I can say about the movie.
I was absolutely baffled when I came in this thread and saw 95% of the posts totally raving over the movie. Bizarro world
Enosh said:
I don't agree.
The good guys are flawed. Jake is more than willing to exploit the Na'vi's trust in the beginning in order to achieve his mission and get new legs. It takes him a while before he switches sides. The other people in the Avatar program are also playing along with the companies plans to relocate the Na'vi, even already having grown to like their unique culture.
The Na'vi aren't perfect. They are distrustful of outsiders to the point of their own near destruction. Even when characters like Jake and Grace try their best to warn them of danger, they are too distrusting to hear their pleads. Nayteri even goes as far as falling in love with a Dreamwalker when she herself resented them at first.
The bad guys are equally deeper than you are representing them. Parker Selfridge is pretty racist towards the Na'vi to the point of calling them "monkeys" yet there are at least two shots of him I saw where, without words, he looks rather unsettled by the destruction being done at his command. It takes a lot of prodding from Quaritch (there's an entire scene dedicated to this) to get Selfridge to finally give up the original diplomatic route.
Quaritch seems to be the most one-sided of characters however after some thought I think there could be more to him. That huge scar on his face may not just be there to make him look cool. The dude has a serious superiority complex and getting himself almost killed on the first day of his arrival (and almost shipped back home) was probably a massive blow to his overinflated ego. So, this changed him into being a character who simply doesn't care about Pandora's wild-life what-so-ever. He's not just some evil general. He's eager to wipe out the Na'vi and lay waist to Pandora because he wants revenge for it getting the better of him. He kept the scar not only to prove how dangerous it is, but as a kind of badge of pride ala Captain Ahab's leg.
I think you're shortchanging the depth of these characters more than a little.
robertsan21
Member
Great great movie and I have a feeling that it will also win an oscar for best film 2009.Since it's so basic and spelled out according to you it's very funny that you interpret it wrong.Enosh said:
I'm talking about nature= good and tech = evil. The avatar program is tech. That particular theme there is tech can be used for good and evil. James Cameron says it himself in an interview. That you shouldn't interpret tech as only evil. He, um, uses tech himself to make his movies.
So, since you didn't understand that easily, and obviously have poor analytical skills, I don't think he should listen to you about whether something it deeper or not.
DeathNote said:
They played it at the end credits.
here's the song btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GMTQBriA3I&feature=related
layzie1989
Member
I still think the best parts of the movie were Jake losing his identity after mating with neytiri, and the whole hometree part and aftermath. Neytiri's mother screaming in grief was pretty sad, and same with neytiri with her father.
So discounting midnight showings Avatar is about flat or even slightly up from last FridayDead said:OH shit. Avatar am doomed?
http://www.deadline.com/hollywood/
Both Sherlock and Avatar estimated at a 24 million Friday with Sherlock possibly ahead, Poor Cameron
I don't get all the hate for the movie's simplicity. It's told by Jake's point of view. The more he is sided with the humans, the better their portrayal is. The more he is exposed to the Na'vi, and grows to like them, the more their portrayal is seen as good and the humans are seen as bad. Since he falls in love with their culture, he probably doesn't see the bad parts of it. He sees what he wants to see.
We can see that they aren't perfectly good themselves, but ultimately it really doesn't matter. If there is a sequel, we are likely to see their flaws. In this movie, however, the humans are only bad because the majority of those we are exposed to are bad. Everything can be done for the sake of a quarterly report, as we are told in the movie.
We can see that they aren't perfectly good themselves, but ultimately it really doesn't matter. If there is a sequel, we are likely to see their flaws. In this movie, however, the humans are only bad because the majority of those we are exposed to are bad. Everything can be done for the sake of a quarterly report, as we are told in the movie.
The simplicity is logical to me. You become a Jake spectator and learn everything he gets to know about the humans, avatar program, and how to be a Na'Vi. Then you go into battle spectator mode and watch it in its full glory. Simple and effective to me. It's like a ride. You see what's ahead but you enjoy the progression. I think it makes rewatchability popular.
In Star Trek, I liked it, but I was waiting for them all to be together and really only care about the sequel. I'm not itching to rewatch it, I'm itching to rewatch the sequel.
This makes me think about LOST. I want to know the answers so bad... it makes me want to rush. After the reveal, I expect to be able to watch LOST in a slower pace because I wont be so hooked to be pushed forward.
I think AVATAR makes you not want to push forward.
The sequel will probably be a more complex story. Maybe not.
In Star Trek, I liked it, but I was waiting for them all to be together and really only care about the sequel. I'm not itching to rewatch it, I'm itching to rewatch the sequel.
This makes me think about LOST. I want to know the answers so bad... it makes me want to rush. After the reveal, I expect to be able to watch LOST in a slower pace because I wont be so hooked to be pushed forward.
I think AVATAR makes you not want to push forward.
The sequel will probably be a more complex story. Maybe not.
DeathNote said:
I mean... the people complaining about exposition or lack thereof... they probably don't understand film making, it's many various facets and priorities that have to be made.
It's a 2 hour 45 minute long movie... and it's designed for repeatable watching (IMO, it does it extremely successfully). How much time should be given off to exposition? How interested really are people about learning about how Unobtanium affects interstellar travel, and maglev trains on earth?
Do we need to be shown the death of Jake's brother and the brother's closeness (if there was any) with the research team? Or Selfridge's detailed characterization as a corporate yes man?
I think the movie prioritized the correct scenes to make it as enjoyable as possible, showing what needed to be shown to convey the necessary story. Given the setting and overall structure which is more slave to the events and the special effects of the movie... what else could really be done while still maintaining the core draw of the film?
It's not The Dark Knight... but people are making the mistake of thinking that it has to be The Dark Knight... when it's clearly on the opposite end of the action movie spectrum, yet still blindingly awesome.
I think it's like us being in an AVATAR or an Assassin's Creed memory access. We jump into Jake's point of view. We see what he sees in the human base, with the avatars, watch the battle, then we're out. I do think having flashbacks about his brother or other shit is in the way personally. It's all about his present.Zaptruder said:
I watched this movie today. Though I literally suffered puke inducing sensation throughout the movie thanks to 3D, somehow I still managed to enjoy it :lol. I get the feeling that he made the story very simple so kids and families could go out together and have a good time. Really marvelous visual art, Pandora is so pretty. I wish him all the success and sequels.
Enosh
Member
and you seemed to ahve compleatly missed the endDeathNote said:
in the end it's nature itself that wins, in the end it's nature that transfers Jake to his new body, not technology anymore, but nature, nature did all the things technology was suposed to do
in the end it's about nature winning over the technology and showing that nature can replace all the things technology was used for
and ofcourse Cameron will say that it isn't about technology being bad, beacose otherwise he would come out as the biggest hypocryt in the whole thing, talking about how technology is bad while using 300$ million worth of tech to make his movie
I'll go by what the movie actual shows, not a PR statement
Messypandas
Member
I'd love to see it in imax again but the price is so fucking expensive its unreal. At least with orange wednesdays it would work out about normal price for two of us but then i'm guessing it will be packed on those days.
polyh3dron
Banned
So do you feel that it should have been more like The New World in the way it told its story with shots of landscape and more VoiceOver than dialogue? You do realize how much money that movie made, don't you? What about the tepid critical reception? Don't get me wrong, I loved that movie too, but WTF man...Dead said:
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
just watched it for the third time today. my plans to get completely baked before my viewing kinda fell through - we were going with more people than originally planned, it was a scorching hot day and none of us really felt like it. plus we were still hungover from christmas day 
anyway - loved it again, one of my mates HATED it, but the other seven all loved it. i still can't stand the
the rest, however, is just wonderful - there's just a feeling of joy and discovery to the whole thing, particularly the
scene. (are we still spoilering stuff?) i really do love this movie. i just went along for the ride, again, and loved it.
a few things i really noticed this time around :
anyway - loved it again, one of my mates HATED it, but the other seven all loved it. i still can't stand the
'inspirational speech' scene where jake inspires the Na'vi to support him - it reminds me of bill pullman's cringeworthy speech in 'independence day', and the 'talking to the tree of souls' scene after that is overly preachy and unnecessary.
banshee taming
a few things i really noticed this time around :
-the awesome music in the intro sequence
-i really hate the 'think fast!' line. it just feels really laboured and corny.
-i love the warmth from grace in the scene where jake won't wake up - because she's feeding him.
-it looked fantastic in IMAX. the colour and contrast seemed better, we were only in the 3rd row and it was still preferable to the last viewing i saw in reald/VMAX.
-after my second viewing where i was super aware of the simplicity/cliche of the story (probably after too much time reading gaf), this time i just got completely sucked in. such a fun, escapist movie. i'm jealous of kids being able to see something like this at their age.
-it's obvious, but i like how the final jake/robot battle involves two people who aren't using their real bodies.
-the jake/neytiri' theme' in the music. love it, love it, love it. almost brought a tear to my eye when it would come on so many other parts of the score were huge lifts from Aliens. (the thanator scene, the final battle)
-take out the aforementioned 'inspirational speech' (or edit it somewhat) and the tree talking scene and it'd be the perfect movie for me. as it is, those are two moments that pull me out of it somewhat. still love it .
-i really hate the 'think fast!' line. it just feels really laboured and corny.
-i love the warmth from grace in the scene where jake won't wake up - because she's feeding him.
-it looked fantastic in IMAX. the colour and contrast seemed better, we were only in the 3rd row and it was still preferable to the last viewing i saw in reald/VMAX.
-after my second viewing where i was super aware of the simplicity/cliche of the story (probably after too much time reading gaf), this time i just got completely sucked in. such a fun, escapist movie. i'm jealous of kids being able to see something like this at their age.
-it's obvious, but i like how the final jake/robot battle involves two people who aren't using their real bodies.
-the jake/neytiri' theme' in the music. love it, love it, love it. almost brought a tear to my eye when it would come on
so many other parts of the score were huge lifts from Aliens. (the thanator scene, the final battle)-take out the aforementioned 'inspirational speech' (or edit it somewhat) and the tree talking scene and it'd be the perfect movie for me. as it is, those are two moments that pull me out of it somewhat. still love it .
PowderedToast
Junior Member
i don't see how you can compare avatar and TNW, cameron and malick couldn't be more different.
bggrthnjsus
Member
dialogue aside, my plot beefs weren't really with a lack of exposition; if anything, they were for too much of it. after the destruction of home tree, with jake's outing by the na'vi and subsequent redemption via taming of the toruk (sp?) leading up to the final battle, i felt no enthusiasm or urgency for anything. i mean you saw all of this coming the minute neyteri first talks about the other toruk riders, and you knew from the start that jake would be cast out and then redeemed. if anything that 30 or 40 minutes between home tree crashing down and the final battle seemed like meaningless setup.
had jake just said 'ok folks, i have something bad to tell you, i'm actually a spy', and all the betrayal/redemption happened in a single scene, and michelle rodriguez never got to act like michelle rodriguez, i would not have had a problem with that. i wouldn't have been begging for an explanation. up until then it had been simple but satisfying. that period between the destruction of home tree and the final battle just felt patronizing. up until that point it had been nothing but incredible save for a few scenes of eye roll dialogue, but that 30 minute period was unnecessary to me. and just because i don't have a better idea for how to go about that doesn't mean somebody else wouldn't have figured it out...i'm no screenwriter. i mean maybe that was the fastest way they could reasonably get to the final battle, but i have my doubts about that.
cliche characters and concepts i am ok with; i enjoy plenty of movies full of them. it was really just that 30 minute redemption sequence that insulted me, and made the movie simply a brilliant visual piece, rather than something brilliant all the way through regardless of cliches.
had jake just said 'ok folks, i have something bad to tell you, i'm actually a spy', and all the betrayal/redemption happened in a single scene, and michelle rodriguez never got to act like michelle rodriguez, i would not have had a problem with that. i wouldn't have been begging for an explanation. up until then it had been simple but satisfying. that period between the destruction of home tree and the final battle just felt patronizing. up until that point it had been nothing but incredible save for a few scenes of eye roll dialogue, but that 30 minute period was unnecessary to me. and just because i don't have a better idea for how to go about that doesn't mean somebody else wouldn't have figured it out...i'm no screenwriter. i mean maybe that was the fastest way they could reasonably get to the final battle, but i have my doubts about that.
cliche characters and concepts i am ok with; i enjoy plenty of movies full of them. it was really just that 30 minute redemption sequence that insulted me, and made the movie simply a brilliant visual piece, rather than something brilliant all the way through regardless of cliches.
You apparently either forgot or misunderstood Augustine's explanation of the science behind the linkages between Pandora's plantlife and that the Na'vi use the properties of the world-wide botanical network to upload and download data. This is an intelligent humanoid race using a natural resource for their own purposes... it is precisely a form of technology. After all, there's no apparent natural reason the Na'vi must use the trees to store memories or form bonds with Banshees. They do it out of convenience and to further their own ends.Enosh said:
Your argument appears to be that any activity that involves "nature" cannot be technological. Please tell me you aren't that simplistic or we'll get to talk about some of the most important technological innovations in human history: husbandry and agriculture.
Gary Whitta
Member
Loos like it's neck and neck between Avatar and Sherlock for Christmas #1. Both on target for $70m.
Gary Whitta
Member
Friday early numbers are aleady in - Avatar 24m, Holmes 25m.gdt5016 said:
Yeah about four or five hours from now for actuals, but we have the estimates in.gdt5016 said:
What's crazy is that both Sherlock Holmes and Avatar would be the new Christmas Day record - it was previously $18m. Just a huge huge day (and weekend) for the box office.
Here's the crazy part. Avatar did $26.8m on its first day (a Friday), including $3.5m in midnight showings. Now it's making ~$24m on its second Friday. But the combination of the day after Christmas (huge day for the box office regardless of what day of the week its on) landing on a Saturday will likely mean it does much better than last Saturday, when it dropped due to the storm on the east coast. I think it will make more than $70m - and possibly more than last week's $77m.
That's truly amazing.Gary Whitta said:
Part of it of course is the 3D premium giving Avatar higher per-viewer returns... but that's still amazing, as people obviously are willing to pay the premium for this experience and at nearly equal rates as the first week. Word of mouth for Avatar is stratospheric.
Looking ahead a bit - a $75m weekend domestic and a 2:1 ratio internationally - what it's been doing every day - would put Avatar at $640m WW at the end of the weekend. Good enough to be the #42 highest grossing movie WW, ahead of Kung Fu Panda.
After 10 days.
Another weekend prediction:
After 10 days.
Another weekend prediction:
So Avatar should be over $74m at least.
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