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[whytemyke]

I've now seen the movie twice. Still love it. Still the best movie of 2009 imo.

Here's the thing with formula breaking in films-- it's usually boring. There's a reason that these things are cliche: They're easily accessible to audiences and have historically proven to be strong at driving the plot. I don't get the idea of some movie-goers wanting complications in their films just for the sake of complication. I'm guilty of it, too, trust me. For reference just look at my posts in the Inglorious Basterds thread when it first came out :lol.

But since then I've realized that moviegoing is meant to be fun sometimes, and not an intellectual exercise. If it impacts the story and makes the story better, then great, but I don't see how avoiding cliche or reworking the story of Avatar to not be so simple actually improves the movie-going experience in any way whatsoever.

Look at some of the best action films of all time, and they all have the same themes. They're not great because they're groundbreaking, they're great because they successfully rehash common themes that people love and compel them to watch it again for entertainment purposes. Is there anyone that said that Terminator 2 wasn't cliche? No. But they still went in droves to see it and it's still loved, and that movie had an even dumber plot device than this one. If T2 came out today it'd be SKEWERED by GAF. "Wait, so they ran out of story with the Terminator being a bad guy, had him disappear, and he comes back as a good guy?"

I just think people do everyone a disservice when they hold big-budget cinema to the standards of art house indie film, and vice versa. You don't walk out of Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and say, "Well I would have liked it better if it's lead character was someone I could more identify with." So why would you hold a movie like Avatar to those opposite restraints?

It's big budget cinema, with a solid if not a bit cliche story told wonderfully with incredible new technology, and anyone faulting it for being any of these things probably should have seen something else instead because Avatar accomplishes everything it's supposed to in absolutely astronomical fashion.

 

[Kaako]

Looking ahead a bit - a $75m weekend domestic and a 2:1 ratio internationally - what it's been doing every day - would put Avatar at $640m WW at the end of the weekend. Good enough to be the #42 highest grossing movie WW, ahead of Kung Fu Panda.

After 10 days.

Feels good man.
I can't believe how well this movie is doing at the box office; makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

 

[∀ Narayan]

How long does it usually take for a BluRay release after the theatrical release?

God damn it. This movie has only been out for week?! I've already seen it twice and it feels like the movie has been out for ages. I'm going to see it again on Monday. :lol

 

[Snaku]

My family and I will be seeing it again Sunday morning. Their second time, my third.

 

[MDSLKTR]

And to think that according to many people in that thread avatar was going to be a bomb of epic proportions :lol

 

[jett]

Phoenix Dark is shitting his pants as we speak.

 

[FirewalkR]

And to think that according to many people in that thread avatar was going to be a bomb of epic proportions :lol

It IS a bomb. 600 Megatons of nuke almost already. Getting ready to break the Gigaton barrier in one week.

 

[jett]

If it does break 600 mill this weekend 1 billion is all but guaranteed. I'd be pretty awesome if it managed to be the second highest grossing movie of all time behind Titanic. :lol

 

[Veidt]

If it does break 600 mill this weekend 1 billion is all but guaranteed. I'd be pretty awesome if it managed to be the second highest grossing movie of all time behind Titanic. :lol

So true :lol

 

[gdt]

If it does break 600 mill this weekend 1 billion is all but guaranteed. I'd be pretty awesome if it managed to be the second highest grossing movie of all time behind Titanic. :lol

That would be the biggest serving of crow the internet has ever seen :lol .

 

[Zeliard]

If it does break 600 mill this weekend 1 billion is all but guaranteed. I'd be pretty awesome if it managed to be the second highest grossing movie of all time behind Titanic. :lol

It will be, and it's gonna be funny as fuck. I am literally going to laugh my ass off when it happens.

Avatar is going to run at IMAX theaters for about two months, if not more. And who knows how long its regular theater run will be, given the amount of money it keeps making? Titanic stayed in the theater for ages because word-of-mouth was so monstrous with it. That's how it became the highest-grossing film.

Given that Avatar is such a fundamentally theater-going experience, if you want the full effect, then I can easily see something like that happening with it.

 

[Sydle]

I mean... the people complaining about exposition or lack thereof... they probably don't understand film making, it's many various facets and priorities that have to be made.

It's a 2 hour 45 minute long movie... and it's designed for repeatable watching (IMO, it does it extremely successfully). How much time should be given off to exposition? How interested really are people about learning about how Unobtanium affects interstellar travel, and maglev trains on earth?

Do we need to be shown the death of Jake's brother and the brother's closeness (if there was any) with the research team? Or Selfridge's detailed characterization as a corporate yes man?

I think the movie prioritized the correct scenes to make it as enjoyable as possible, showing what needed to be shown to convey the necessary story. Given the setting and overall structure which is more slave to the events and the special effects of the movie... what else could really be done while still maintaining the core draw of the film?

It's not The Dark Knight... but people are making the mistake of thinking that it has to be The Dark Knight... when it's clearly on the opposite end of the action movie spectrum, yet still blindingly awesome.

Great post.

 

[Zeliard]

Even though the next movie won't be a prequel, it'd still be cool if they have some flashback scenes, like showing what the Na'vi reactions were upon first seeing an Avatar.

 

[Veidt]

Even though the next movie won't be a prequel, it'd still be cool if they have some flashback scenes, like showing what the Na'vi reactions were upon first seeing an Avatar.

This could be gooood.

 

[Tobor]

Its not better than The New World


...but yeah id take it over any of those other incarnations (dances, last samurai, etc)

You guys like The New World? That's a relief, but only because I worked on it and got to see a lot of the footage that didn't make it, and it was all plot advancement. Man, I can tell some stories about that movie. :lol

 

[jett]

Even though the next movie won't be a prequel, it'd still be cool if they have some flashback scenes, like showing what the Na'vi reactions were upon first seeing an Avatar.

"the fug?"

 

[Veidt]

or

 

[tino]

That would be the biggest serving of crow the internet has ever seen :lol .

Second biggest. Internet was around in 97 remember.

 

[GhaleonEB]

If it does break 600 mill this weekend 1 billion is all but guaranteed. I'd be pretty awesome if it managed to be the second highest grossing movie of all time behind Titanic. :lol

Pretty much. If it hits $600m WW this weekend - which is a lock - and then starts tanking right after, it will probably still do it. Let's say it drops 50% a week; it will top $1b after two more weeks. And at that pace, it's the #2 movie ever behind Titanic and ahead of Return of the King the week after that.

If it starts tanking, that is.

 

[duckroll]

What about domestic? Any chance of beating Dark Knight? Probably not, right?

 

[Veidt]

What about domestic? Any chance of beating Dark Knight? Probably not, right?

TDK did $533.3

 

[heinsmit]

What about domestic? Any chance of beating Dark Knight? Probably not, right?

well, i think we'd need another week to be sure of anything.. let's see how much it retains over the next few days.

 

[gdt]

I don't think it'll beat TDK domestic.

Probably will beat it's WW though.

 

[GhaleonEB]

What about domestic? Any chance of beating Dark Knight? Probably not, right?

Definitely too early to tell. TDK made less of its money overseas.

Domestic: $533,345,358
+ Foreign: $468,576,467
= Worldwide: $1,001,921,825

Avatar is making twice as much interationally as it is in the US.

Domestic: $137,268,000
+ Foreign: $255,686,953
= Worldwide: $392,954,953

And that's including Christmas Eve in the US, but not internationally. Avatar will have nearly TDK's entire international gross after this weekend, but only half its domestic.

 

[duckroll]

TDK did $533.3

Yes, I'm aware of that. Avatar needs another 400 million to beat it.

 

[jett]

Catching up to TDK in domestic gross will be super hard to achieve. TDK got there because of massive legs on top of an already massive, record-breaking opening weekend. Avatar would need Titanic-like legs to reach it.

 

[Veidt]

Yes, I'm aware of that. Avatar needs another 400 million to beat it.

yep.

 

[Zeliard]

BoxOfficeGuru.com editor updated his twitter:

FRI BO: Sherlock $24.9M/$72-76M wknd, Avatar $23M/$75-80M, Alvin $14M/$46-51M, Complicated $7.1M/$21-24M, Up/Air $3.5M/$11M.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

Well I watched it and was, as expected, largely unimpressed. This movie was not made for me. People here are right, it is meant to be big, dumb and rewatchable. I actually felt this to be more of a kids movie than a lot of those released as kids movies this year - everything is completely black and white. As such it will be a resounding success financially speaking.

For me, though, too much of it lacked detail or proper thought considering the time it took to make (a factor I do consider relevant). The dialogue was completely average and by the numbers as was the plotline and character development. Everything occurs exactly as you'd expect and when you'd expect it to. Perhaps I should be expecting this from Cameron now though?

With that said I thought the CGI was excellent in every way. The action scenes themselves are passable but certainly not all that memorable. For example, I'm not driven by any great desire to see any particlar scene again because it was oh-so 'awe inspiring'.

However, I did not particularly enjoy the implementation of 3D. It's very simply a fancy depth of field effect which often distracts the eye from the area of the screen you're meant to be concentrating on in a given scene. There were a few scenes where it worked very well but I'd like to see a more considered use of the effect in the future if this is to become an industry standard.

In all 7.5/10

 

[duckroll]

Catching up to TDK in domestic gross will be super hard to achieve. TDK got there because of massive legs on top of an already massive, record-breaking opening weekend. Avatar would need Titanic-like legs to reach it.

Isn't that the point though? Everyone who's been positive about Avatar's box office believes it CAN be another Titanic, for different reasons. It'll be interesting to see how close it can come to that prophecy.

 

[gdt]

It will be insanely delicious if AVATAR's second week is bigger than it's first.

DMczaf vindicated.

 

[jett]

I think a higher than opening second WK is out of the cards at this point. If the 23mill number stick Avatar would have to achieve a 3.3 weekend multiplier, that would be just insane.

Isn't that the point though? Everyone who's been positive about Avatar's box office believes it CAN be another Titanic, for different reasons. It'll be interesting to see how close it can come to that prophecy.

Well I said it'd be hard, not impossible.

 

[Zeliard]

Avatar is making a lot of money overseas. It doesn't necessarily have to TDK up the domestic BO to break a billion.

 

[duckroll]

Well I said it'd be hard, not impossible.

Now that's the spirit!

 

[jett]

Now that's the spirit!

HEH I just noticed Avatar has a chance at beating the record for highest second weekend...which is held by The Dark Knight.

http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/weekends/moreweekends.htm?page=2&p=.htm

oh shi- if it does.

Avatar's release date really was expertly placed by Fox. Next friday is January 1st, so it's yet another holiday weekend for the movie.

 

[Rentahamster]

How interested really are people about learning about how Unobtanium affects interstellar travel, and maglev trains on earth?

Very. But I'm a sucker for that stuff, and that's what the supplemental book is for, anyhow.

Extrapolating our current situation 200 years in the future is very interesting.

 

[FirewalkR]

Any word on how it's doing in Japan? I can only imagine it's blowing japanese minds.

 

[krypt0nian]

OMW now to see it in 3D. Still cautiously optimistic having avoided most of this thread so as not to color my opinion too much. I go into every flic wanting to be entertained so I think this should be fun.

 

[Sapiens]

You guys like The New World? That's a relief, but only because I worked on it and got to see a lot of the footage that didn't make it, and it was all plot advancement. Man, I can tell some stories about that movie. :lol

tell us. I liked it a lot.

Also, I know you probably won't know this, but why did James Horner tone down his style so much?

 

[Count Dookkake]

Anyone remember when some clown said that to see any similarity between

Spoiler

Home Tree's destruction and 9/11

was "typically American" or some such rubbish?

That guy and the chorus of those braying in agreement should check out Empire's review.

http://www.empireonline.com/reviews/reviewcomplete.asp?FID=133552

But it’s hard to imagine even the most jaded and cynical having any issues with the last forty minutes, in which Cameron uncorks the action and shows all the young pretenders – the Bays and the Emmerichs and the Von Triers – how it’s done. The human attack on Pandora and the subsequent fightback, led by Avatar-Jake, is a largely sustained setpiece of quite staggering scale, imagination and emotion that manages to compress both the truly epic –

Spoiler

a human attack on a Na’vi landmark that recalls 9/11 in its devastating imagery

– and the thrillingly intimate, as Jake finally faces off against the excellent Stephen Lang’s Quaritch, a scenery-chewing bad guy so badass that he can breathe the Pandoran air without a mask.

:lol :lol :lol

EDIT-

I dont think Cameron was painting a 9/11 or war on terror allegory at all. I think its much simpler and clear cut than that. It was a green movie.

This.

I'm honestly not seeing anything other than Pro-Environment/Anti-Corporatism.

Such an American attitude to try and claim "ash and fire" as allegorical of 9/11. I didn't realize only the Twin Towers produced ash and fire when destroyed.

Thank you.

And he said he put the scriptment away because technology wasn't ready to produce it, so was he lying? He was really waiting for the 9/11 attacks? Get it?

You were saying?

Avatar provides many opportunities for crow serving, even in analysis. I love it.

EDIT 2 - The BBC also says the same thing about 9/11. Searching the relevant terms brings up tons of results drawing the connection. Many of these are not from Americans.

So in conclusion...

:lol

 

[Rentahamster]

Quick question - what would you folks have thought if some of the more stereotypical/archetypal gender roles had been switched? Would it have made the movie any less/more cliche, deep, entertaining, or preachy, etc?

For example, if Parker or Quaritch were female, or if or Neytiri were a native prince and Jake was a girl.

Is there something intrinsically appealing about the Dances with Wolves/Pocahontas/Last Samurai storytelling archetype (or cliche, if you want) of a foreign male falling in love with a native female? Does it have to be that way in order to appeal to the majority?

I wasn't sure what to think of this at the time it came up in conversation, and am still mulling it over. Just thought I'd see if GAF has any pearls of wisdom.

Embarrassingly enough, I was distracted by scifi fanfic thoughts of what if the Navi were actually asexual or trisexual or maybe didn't have a similar male/female bond that humans have, and that Navi could have pretty sweet-ass gay or group sex because both genders have those neato organic USB nerve bundle pony tail things and then Mass Effect and then this Penny Arcade comic.

I stopped drinking after that.

 

[Veidt]

I'm totally loving this Totally Rad Show review of Avatar:
http://www.totallyradshow.com/episodes/episode-143-game-changer.html

 

[Combine]

I wonder why the film is doing so well overseas? Just curiosity, but I guess Titanic did the same thing as well.

I agree that making the film too complex would drive away a good portion of the audiences. Also though, it does sound like time (for the film's run-time) was not on Cameron's side. They had to keep it down for the IMAX limit as well as because they had no idea how long people can stand watching 3D.

Cameron did well in that regard that he was able to get the film down to it's current time and keep all the important scenes in regards to moving the story along. But of course, that meant anything extra beyond the basics obviously couldn't make it.

That and I'm sure the novel will go into greater depth on many things.

Quick question - what would you folks have thought if some of the more stereotypical/archetypal gender roles had been switched? Would it have made the movie any less/more cliche, deep, entertaining, or preachy, etc?

For example, if Parker or Quaritch were female, or if or Neytiri were a native prince and Jake was a girl.

I would have enjoyed the turnabout to be sure. Though, and this is just me, I can't think of any female actor who could do a type of character like Quaritch. Then again, there really aren't many female evil characters in movies, especially action movies.

 

[Rentahamster]

I can't think of any female actor who could do a type of character like Quaritch. Then again, there really aren't many female evil characters in movies, especially action movies.

Yeah, I can't think of many good examples, either, aside from Disney movies and Rita Repulsa.

edit: ooh, Tia's character in True Lies, but she was kinda secondary...

 

[Count Dookkake]

Death Race is a decent action movie with a great female villain.

Doomsday has a great female villain.

Cliffhanger and Die Hard 3 have decent female villains.

 

[Veidt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8qPNvTZ0lI#&t=06m0s

If Cameron had put this Hans Zimmer epic in that scene

Spoiler

where they climb the hallelujah mountains. I would cry myself into insanity.

 

[Medalion]

I tend to think North Americans are more jaded and cynical than other countries about this stuff maybe...dunno. We are exposed to this stuff a lot and maybe overseas, big movies like this dazzle easier with less criticality, dunno.

 

[Tobor]

tell us. I liked it a lot.

Also, I know you probably won't know this, but why did James Horner tone down his style so much?

I don't know anything about the score, unfortunately. Post production is another world.

I was the travel coordinator on the film, (oh noes, you'll find my name in the credits! :lol) and I did a lot of other crazy stuff on that film. I ran the dailies for Chivo(Emmanuel Lubezki, the DP), since I was the only one who could run the projector and he insisted on watching them every day after shooting. That was a nightmare. There was footage that was out of focus and he screamed at me until I could prove to him that the projector wasn't the problem.

I met everyone of note on the picture, drank a beer with Colin Farrell, and met his sister(his manager) and his mother. Christopher Plummer, Christian Bale, Wes Studi, David Thewlis, you name it. You don't realize it, but a lot of these people are fairly normal. I called their houses and worked with them personally on travel and lodging arrangements. I helped move Terence Malick into his furnished house in Williamsburg, including his typewriter and a hundred bins full of versions of the script dating back to the 80's. That was surreal. He's a strange man, as you'd imagine, but I got to tell him in person how much Badlands meant to me, which was a highlight of my career.

As for the movie, there are entire sections of the script that were filmed and aren't in the final cut, including quite a lot of exposition.

This is just one of many strange jobs I had while I was in the industry, but that's a derail for another day.

 

[Solo]

OH shit. Avatar am doomed?

http://www.deadline.com/hollywood/

Both Sherlock and Avatar estimated at a 24 million Friday with Sherlock possibly ahead, Poor Cameron

Are you kidding me? Doomed? Thats an 11$ drop Friday to Friday. 11%. Blockbuster movies just dont do that. Hell, barely any kind of movie does that, full stop. An 11% drop, and the weekend intake is going to be almost as high as opening weekend, and its going to beat Sherlock Holmes. That is what we call kicking ass on all fronts :lol Movie is a massive success already, and its still got a ways to go.

If it does break 600 mill this weekend 1 billion is all but guaranteed. I'd be pretty awesome if it managed to be the second highest grossing movie of all time behind Titanic. :lol

Even if it doesnt become the #2 alltime movie, if it hits $1B WW, Cameron will have made 2 of the 5 movies to have ever crossed $1B. Think about that. Fucking incredible.

How long does it usually take for a BluRay release after the theatrical release?

The more successful the movie is in theatres, the longer it usually takes to get the BD. Im calling May for Avatar.

Anyone remember when some clown said that to see any similarity between

Spoiler

Home Tree's destruction and 9/11

was "typically American" or some such rubbish?

That guy and the chorus of those braying in agreement should check out Empire's review.

*stuff*

So in conclusion...

:lol

This seems beneath you, Count. Im not sure why you even posted this, or are "laughing" at us who didnt feel that was Cameron's intention. For starters, for the two sources you cited that felt Home Tree was analogous to 9/11, I could posted 100 that mention no such thing. Second, we still dont even know if it was something Cameron intended, or just something that certain viewers like yourself and the Empire reviewer picked up on. Allegory is a funny thing, because it doesnt exist in any sort of tangible way. A filmmaker could make his movie and not intend anything and yet viewers will find some. Conversely a filmmaker could make something filled with it and yet the viewer may not pick up any of it.

tl;dr people see what they want to see, and its all good

 

[Count Dookkake]

Solo, I'm not really mad.

Only reasons I bring it up are:

1) I just read the Empire review.

2) Some posters were adamant that such a connection was impossible, even going so far as to say it was typical of American thought. Empire is not American.

3) lulz