Messypandas
Member
Best Batman is Young Justice Batman. COME AT ME.
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RTTP: Batman Begins (The only Batman movie to really understand the character)
- Thread starter neogaffer1
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neogaffer1
Banned
he wasn't in it enough to prove or disprove that, tbh.
Jawmuncher
Member
That first post. Perfection.
Messypandas
Member
It was refreshing to see him school Clark on how to take the higher road in an imperfect situation. It was nice to see the brooding take a backseat.
neogaffer1
Banned
true. when he was in the show, it was some of the best batman there was.
but he was rarely ever in the show.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
My man
One of the worst things about MoS is that there is no clark kent really. He's just superbum. The writers of Lois & Clark understood him faaaaaaar better.
And The Late Mr. Kent is the best non-darkseid ep of STAS. The line with his father was amazing, as was the cop figuring out who he was. Also the Lana bit near the end always cracks me up
DeathoftheEndless
Crashing this plane... with no survivors!
And this is even without mentioning that the Batman in the trilogy doesn't have much in common with other iterations of the character.
I've always liked how Batman and Superman are portrayed as opposites of the same coin. Superman is the secret identity for Clark Kent, while Bruce Wayne is the secret identity for Batman. Their animated versions reflect this as well - I believe there's a Batman Beyond episode where a villain is screwing with people mentally and at the end of the episode Terry asks Bruce how he knew he was dreaming/being fooled, and Bruce responds with "in my head, I don't call myself Bruce".
Dad Bats will always be best Bats.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Yup. Clark is just a normal(lol) guy who tries to do the best he can with his powers while bruce is still mentally traumatised from his parents death to the point that "bruce wayne" is just a facade he mantains to keep the money rolling in for his fight against crime
Batman Begins even weaves this bit in near the end of the movie as well. Rachel gives that line of "your real face is the one criminals fear". I kind of wish Chris Nolan would have followed up Batman Begins with a Superman movie, I honestly think that pre-Ledger death Nolan would have made an awesome Superman movie that would have also demonstrated how similar yet different he is from Batman.
boiled goose
good with gravy
As movies, they all have pros and cons. Even forever has a few good things.
neogaffer1
Banned
The problem I have with this is that even if you go for the explanation that there are many different interpretations of batman it's just a given that some fit closer to what batman is accepted to be in the main comic continuity and some are further away, but still have some basis.
...Batman 89 has very little basis in anything other than Burton's brain. As stated before in the thread, Burton didn't care for comics and hated making the movies. Hell, I'd even argue the only thing that aligns that interpretation with Batman are the names and the costume. If Baleman dressed as an owl and all the names were different I'd feel like a Batman movie that didn't have the Batman license. If Keaton did the same it'd just be a superhero movie with nothing to do with Batman.
Escape Goat
Member
Burtons Batman was at least fun.
The thing is that the stories are interesting when there is some kind of progress or resolution. Clark Kent is a "God" on earth, who learns to reconcile that because his parents taught him to value the people 'beneath' him. Bruce Wayne, as he grows up and ages, eventually needs to heal the trauma of his parents' deaths and move on. That includes reconciling that not killing criminals isn't about "not stooping to the level of Joe Chill", it's about everyone ultimately having a chance to redeem themselves (including Bruce Wayne), even if that's very difficult to attain. There is no story if there is no progression, and this is why Batman stories constantly retreading the same bullshit is very tiresome and nonsensical.
Burton's Batman movies (more so 89 than Returns) have the best artistic style to them and I don't even think any of the other movies come close to matching it. Gotham City in Burton's Batman looks exactly how Gotham should look, like a city that is lost and looks dirty and filthy everywhere. Those movies absolutely ooze atmosphere to them.
The ending of TDKR makes this scene even more poignant.Batman Begins has the best ending to a super hero movie to date.
I think you're way too sensitive about those Burton quotes about comics and it's shaping your thoughts.
Burton's Batman feels way more like the world's greatest detective than Nolan's who just pays his friends to do all the smart stuff.
neogaffer1
Banned
it's mostly shaped by me watching 89 utterly flabbergasted as to why people anybody views it as a classic when it treats the batman canon with so much disregard. the comic quotes don't help.
neogaffer1
Banned
How can anyone hate the 89 suit. It's the scariest looking Batman to date.
no, that's a man in an immobile rubber suit
EnVy_CaLiBeR
Member
Always said Batman Begins was the best of the Nolan trilogy because it was the best Batman film. The Joker performance was pretty much the only reason anyone would choose TDK over it, but it was not enough for me to make up for the atmosphere and the Batman that was lost after Begins.
Not to mention Scarecrow was awesome in Begins and got reduced to pretty much nothing after that.
Not to mention Scarecrow was awesome in Begins and got reduced to pretty much nothing after that.
"I'm not wearing hockey pads. I'm wearing xtreme motocross gear with a cape."
Nolan suit is bad.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Nobody has ever accurately articulated to me why Batman has to be insane.
Anyone who becomes a super hero has to be insane - Nobody ever applies this logic to other super heroes. Superman and The Flash aren't insane because they are super heroes
Batman has no super powers - Again - Iron Man, Captain America, Green Arrow, etc don't have super powers and nobody describes them as insane (some personality disorders maybe, but not "insane". Also, Batman can clearly handle his shit. It's not like he's walking into a suicidal situation because he has no powers. He knows how to deal with it.
Batman dresses up as a Bat - He does this to scare criminals and create a symbol. Again, it works. Criminals are afraid of Batman and he's a symbol of Gotham city.
I just feel like Batman gets judged differently from other Super Heroes because he's the "dark" one.
Anyone who becomes a super hero has to be insane - Nobody ever applies this logic to other super heroes. Superman and The Flash aren't insane because they are super heroes
Batman has no super powers - Again - Iron Man, Captain America, Green Arrow, etc don't have super powers and nobody describes them as insane (some personality disorders maybe, but not "insane". Also, Batman can clearly handle his shit. It's not like he's walking into a suicidal situation because he has no powers. He knows how to deal with it.
Batman dresses up as a Bat - He does this to scare criminals and create a symbol. Again, it works. Criminals are afraid of Batman and he's a symbol of Gotham city.
I just feel like Batman gets judged differently from other Super Heroes because he's the "dark" one.
I think scenes like this in popular media kind of perpetuate the myth that he is a very very troubled person. I personally prefer this kind of interpretation anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjAFbEP0wK4
I honestly think the lack of mobility ends up working in his favor. It adds to the intimidation factor. When he's approaching you that pointy-eared silhouette never breaks. When he's fighting it looks like Batman is fighting with minimal effort since he doesn't even need to bob and weave with his head to avoid your strikes, he's just going to stand there block a couple of punches, and then drop you because he's Batman and you're not.
Depends on your view of the character really OP. At this point Batman (and Superman, etc) are pretty elastic characters with tons of interpretations and riffs on them.
I can see though from your post why BB would feel the most correct to you.
My favourite interpretation is Nolan's too. Although what I like is he mostly avoids spending much time on Batman just being Batman and solving crimes. I have to admit I'd find that inhernently dull.
What Nolan did was focus instead on key moments around that. So Begins shows us a very strong, believable origin and finishes with Wayne/Batman essentially fully formed.
Dark Knight briefly, in the opening, shows us fully developed Batman at his peak, taking down criminals and clearly wining the war on crime in Gotham and essentially unstoppable. Then it allows the Joker to steadily pull the rug from under Batman and provide his biggest moral and motivation challenge. It finishes with the effective end of proper Batman.
Rises ends up weaker because it has nowhere to go than a "returns one last time" plot that while more interesting and challenging than Batman just fighting crime is very familiar and a bit cliche. It also includes two other main challenges, a physical one vs the moral challenge of TDK and the challenge of escaping the cowl.
All three work well though as a whole and Rises is still interesting and I like that apart from say the first section of Dark Knight they focused on key challenges/transformation moments in Wayne/Batman's career and avoided Batman just being Batman.
I can see though from your post why BB would feel the most correct to you.
My favourite interpretation is Nolan's too. Although what I like is he mostly avoids spending much time on Batman just being Batman and solving crimes. I have to admit I'd find that inhernently dull.
What Nolan did was focus instead on key moments around that. So Begins shows us a very strong, believable origin and finishes with Wayne/Batman essentially fully formed.
Dark Knight briefly, in the opening, shows us fully developed Batman at his peak, taking down criminals and clearly wining the war on crime in Gotham and essentially unstoppable. Then it allows the Joker to steadily pull the rug from under Batman and provide his biggest moral and motivation challenge. It finishes with the effective end of proper Batman.
Rises ends up weaker because it has nowhere to go than a "returns one last time" plot that while more interesting and challenging than Batman just fighting crime is very familiar and a bit cliche. It also includes two other main challenges, a physical one vs the moral challenge of TDK and the challenge of escaping the cowl.
All three work well though as a whole and Rises is still interesting and I like that apart from say the first section of Dark Knight they focused on key challenges/transformation moments in Wayne/Batman's career and avoided Batman just being Batman.
Him being the "dark one" is kind of the reason though. Other heroes arent concerned about terrifying bad guys.
But he doesn't have to be any one thing. The different takes are fun.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
I don't think he's acting insane here. Other than the whole having a conversation with his dead parents thing but that's a common movie trope "normal" characters do all the time too.
I say read Arkham Asylum.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
That's flat out untrue though. There are a ton of other heroes that try to terrify bad guys.
I'm not saying there can't be different takes. I'm responding to the common statement that Batman has to be insane by his very nature.
A book written during the time when DC was trying to push Batman as being insane portrays him as insane? You don't say.
Purple Cheeto
Member
I'm not sure how Batman Begins understands the Batman character. He's barely recognizable as Batman.
Can you name some? OfF the top of my head I have a hard time thinking of any major characters aside from like Punisher who is often shown a bit crazy too.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
victory defeated him. Peace has cost him his strength.
>wants interpretations of batman as insane
>posts a sarcastic as fuck response
I like your posts
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Daredevil and the Shadow come to mind.
There's also all the supernatural based ones (The Spectre, Spawn, Deadman, etc)
I've read Arkham Asylum. It's the same "Batman is crazy" argument I've read dozens of times since Dark Knight Returns came out. It doesn't explain why Batman -has- to be crazy. Again,Batman being crazy is a valid direction if you want to go that way. I am arguing that being Batman does not inherently make him crazy.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
My favorite thing about Begins is that it took a villain I never like and made him into a favorite of mine.
And with Joker becoming so tired lately Ra's is easily holding the top spot.
And with Joker becoming so tired lately Ra's is easily holding the top spot.
This means nothing, just so you know. A person can hate something and still be informed on them.
Batman is a psychopath.
The dude was raised by his butler, boiling in anger until he jetsetted and was raised by the worst of the world to be what he is. He only came back for revenge. If he wasn't he'd have used his money to actually help the city, instead of turning it into a war zone. It almost feels like Memento, where a guy does anything to keep his new reality together, which did kind of make Nolan the perfect director.
If you want to see another movie with Christian Bale being Batman, watch American Psycho, and then ask yourself why Nolan casted him.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
Bale is fine in Begins. He sucks in the other two films of the trilogy. I have strong hope that this guy is going to be the GOAT Bruce Wayne and Batman
that is a really weird picture of Affleck. Like his head is photoshopped in.
BattleMonkey
Member
I don't care about the killing aspect, Batman 89 was GOAT
dragonyeuw
Member
I think it was, since Affleck is like 3 inches taller than Cavill. It's to avoid having Batman look 'bigger' than Superman....
dragonyeuw
Member
That's a fair point. I haven't watched it in some time, but I seem to recall even Alfred taking Bruce to task for being distrustful of Penquin before he had earned it within the context of the movie.
Not exactly what I came here to post, but essentially the same thing in 100 words less.
The movie kind of explains this. He's initially suspicious because Penguin's reveal and saving the mayors child seemed staged (because it was). He doesn't outright straight out say this on camera, but Bruce's suspicion about Penguin starts immediately after that scene happens so it's just a matter of going 1 + 1 = 2. And then he does some detective work and finds a link between Penguin and the shut down of the original Red Triangle circus. After that Batman is just shadowing Penguin because he justifiably doesn't trust him. On top of that Penguin then associates himself with Max Shrek, another person Bruce found shady.
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