RTTP: Ridley Scott's ALIEN, or, the best movie he's ever made?
- Thread starter Anton Sugar
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Broken Arrow
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Mr. Snrub said:
Wow, never thought about it that way. Very, very cool...
Danne-Danger
Member
You want the Final Cut. Just stay away from the theatrical version (the one with narration) and you're fine.Pandoracell said:
subzero9285
Banned
It's sometimes refered to as the 'Assembly Cut', but also known as the 'Director's Cut' and Collector's Edition, it should be available at all the usual places; Amazon etc.Pandoracell said:
Cosmic Bus
pristine morning snow
EatChildren said:
You can add me to the ranks who feel this way. Your ordering of 1/3/2/4 is consistent with my taste, as well, right down to the comments you make about Resurrection.
As for Ridley, of course Alien is his best, and by a country mile; the man's career is made up of three damn good movies (one of which I don't even like, but I can give credit where credit is due) and a bunch of middling to flat-out bad ones.
BertramCooper
Banned
I've always liked to think that Alien and Blade Runner are set in the same universe. They seem to have a lot of similarities - advanced artificial intelligence, mega-corporations, dystopian settings, etc.
I doubt it's actually true, but I've always liked to picture it that way.
I doubt it's actually true, but I've always liked to picture it that way.
Meesh
Member
I just wanted to mention, It was a different thread, but the Aliens desire to screw Lambert I didn't pick up on until just recently...the reason was because I watched Aliens first at the theatre, then Alien. In Aliens, the queen forks Bishop through the back with her tail and tears him in two...so when I saw Alien, and the tail creeping up between Lamberts legs I naturally thought it was more or less the same thing.
Now that I understand the deeper sexual connection in the original Alien, I find myself questioning Alien3 and the dcversion. It should be deeper....bascically I don't understand the descision to exchange the hosts, ie: Dog or Bull Alien. Depending on the version you favour, the "Bull Alien" may imply a docile beast with limited or slightly limited intelligence with possibly very little to zero memories of humans...might only remember basic interaction? The "Dog Alien" should have been explored more thoroughly if we consider the Aliens abillity to pass on memory/knowledge. I think we should have seen more conflict between the Alien and it's master or with humans in general...a hint that the dog part remembers. Not that I expect the Alien to hump the piss outta someone's leg or anything, it's just now I look at the series in a slightly different light...
Anyway, Ressurrection was a huge mess. The story/dialog was a huge turn off for me and the Alien design was terrible, in one scene it walks like a T-rex. Jurassalien Park? Using it's secondary set of teeth to punch a button? Really??? So I rate the Films as they were released. Alien, Aliens Alien3.....................(AVP1).......................................Alien Ressurrection..........................................................................................(AVP2)
I've never heard Ridley speak of his other films, but in the quadrillagy he say's he was "rather proud" of Alien. It could be Alien was his finest...everything about it was tight, not a weak link in the characters, story was believable, the emotion was there. It was scifi perfection and in my mind validated the genre in movies as works of art.
Now that I understand the deeper sexual connection in the original Alien, I find myself questioning Alien3 and the dcversion. It should be deeper....bascically I don't understand the descision to exchange the hosts, ie: Dog or Bull Alien. Depending on the version you favour, the "Bull Alien" may imply a docile beast with limited or slightly limited intelligence with possibly very little to zero memories of humans...might only remember basic interaction? The "Dog Alien" should have been explored more thoroughly if we consider the Aliens abillity to pass on memory/knowledge. I think we should have seen more conflict between the Alien and it's master or with humans in general...a hint that the dog part remembers. Not that I expect the Alien to hump the piss outta someone's leg or anything, it's just now I look at the series in a slightly different light...
Anyway, Ressurrection was a huge mess. The story/dialog was a huge turn off for me and the Alien design was terrible, in one scene it walks like a T-rex. Jurassalien Park? Using it's secondary set of teeth to punch a button? Really??? So I rate the Films as they were released. Alien, Aliens Alien3.....................(AVP1).......................................Alien Ressurrection..........................................................................................(AVP2)
I've never heard Ridley speak of his other films, but in the quadrillagy he say's he was "rather proud" of Alien. It could be Alien was his finest...everything about it was tight, not a weak link in the characters, story was believable, the emotion was there. It was scifi perfection and in my mind validated the genre in movies as works of art.
Anton Sugar
Member
Evilink said:
Yeah, in the deleted scene its way more obvious, as she turns and we see the Alien sitting on the floor, and its tail almost playful whips down across the floor and then goes "erect" slowly and points at her.
Plus, you have her strained, painful screams and quick gasps/moans as Ripley is running through the halls. Disturbing but it's almost sort of a fascinating design choice.
It's been a while since I've seen Alien 3 but I thought that was sort of the inspiration behind the "dog" Alien/runner...it seems to have lower intelligence, mutilates its victims and leaves them, etc.
That element is sort of lost, from the "resurrected" host/parasite individuality to the "hivemind" swarms of Aliens. I like that its possible for the Xeno's to have a bit of..."personality"? :lol
Mr. Snrub said:
I always wondered that if the Alien species takes traits from it's host, then all Aliens we know of stemmed from the one that burst out of the navigator's chest (unless the eggs were already on the ship when it crashed.)
What Aliens looked like earlier in their lineage is something interesting to think about.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Alien is easily Scott's best all-around movie. I personally prefer Blade Runner due to its imagery and the density of its ideas, but as an all-around piece of cinema, Alien hits that perfect sweet spot between ideas and entertainment that is often hit by the all-time greats.
Muffdraul
Member
I can't even tell you how large Alien looms in my life. I was 10 years old when it was first released, and I was utterly and completely obsessed with it for god only knows how long. And I wasn't even allowed to actually see it until 1982 when we got our first VCR. Up to then the only thing to sustain me was grilling anyone I knew who had seen it, pouring over the Dean Foster novel, The Book of Alien behind the scenes thing, and Alien: The Illustrated Story as if they were holy scripture. I like all of the Alien movies to some degree, but IMO none of them, not even Aliens, come within 1000 miles of even breathing on the original.
Anton Sugar
Member
oracrest said:
Especially interesting because Scott's original plan (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong) was that the bodies taken back to the nest would be cocooned and slowly turn into the eggs to give "birth" to new facehuggers. So the eggs you saw on the Space Jockey's ship were "presumably" other life forms, maybe other "Jockies".
Anton Sugar
Member
The deleted egg/cocoon scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rLnDtuQrtE
So good. I guess Cameron thought, "Hmm, not going with the human cocooneggs, but that "kill me" bit..."
So good. I guess Cameron thought, "Hmm, not going with the human cocooneggs, but that "kill me" bit..."
Steppenwolf
Member
And what about The Duellists? Not many people here seem to even know it.
the_log_ride
Member
Dascu said:
Damn... Me, too...
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
One of my favorite parts of the Alien series has been relegated to a deleted scene and made non-canon. The complete life cycle of the alien (not) shown in the first movie is a whole hell of a lot better than what Cameron came up with. The idea that the alien takes its victim then does something to them and they painfully turn into an egg with a facehugger is infinitely more terrifying to me than the alien queen.
Although I still like Aliens better than Alien, probably because I saw it first when I was young. Aliens came out on VHS when I was in Kindergarten or First Grade and I still remember getting home from school one friday and my dad had rented it. I was enamored, so fucking awesome. Alien Resurrection is really stupid but somewhat entertaining, and I've grown to appreciate Alien 3 more than I used to, but I still don't like it.
Although I still like Aliens better than Alien, probably because I saw it first when I was young. Aliens came out on VHS when I was in Kindergarten or First Grade and I still remember getting home from school one friday and my dad had rented it. I was enamored, so fucking awesome. Alien Resurrection is really stupid but somewhat entertaining, and I've grown to appreciate Alien 3 more than I used to, but I still don't like it.
D.Lo
Member
God I hate the made up Greek/Latin bastardised mess that is 'Quadrilogy', whatever marketing moran thought of that should be shot.
Ash is its counterpart, the cold, uncaring 'male' (a literal robot) who has no concern for others. It's revealed he represents the company, he's sort of the Gordon Gecko male (or its surrogate of) in that sense.
There are lots of nice clues in the text. The Alien is a 'super male', because it can impregnate a male (at least in facehugger form). So even men are not safe from the consequences of this sexual violence. It can also 'penetrate' males in adult form, with its wang mouth thing.
The ship is called Mother (sort of), the crew are 'born' at the start of the film, and they look like children when they go outside in the suits (and actually were in many scenes during filming). The other aliens in the crashed ship are much larger, enhancing the 'child' impression.
Mother is breached with a foreign organism because protocol is ignored (by Ash, the company man/robot/father?) so it too is impregnated by the Alien, like a woman who should have known better.
Lambert is shown as a 'weak female' and she ends up raped by the super male Xenomorph. Ripley is shown to be a strong female, experienced and capable of handling the male aggression at the start of the film, so she is the only one equipped to deal with the super male.
The craziest scene is where Ash tries to Kill Ripley - he does it by shoving a phallic object (the rolled up magazine) down her throat. And he does it in the male quarters, where the walls are covered in pornography, symbols of male oppression of women.
There's much more too, I wrote an essay on it once. Really makes you appreciate how well crafted the film is, everything about it was just so well thought out and clever.
And most people miss the feminist subtext of the movie as well. The film is about male sexual aggression, and the Xenomorph is that aggression in bodily form - the phallic look of the head is not just there to look scary, it's there to make it look sexually violent.subzero9285 said:
Ash is its counterpart, the cold, uncaring 'male' (a literal robot) who has no concern for others. It's revealed he represents the company, he's sort of the Gordon Gecko male (or its surrogate of) in that sense.
There are lots of nice clues in the text. The Alien is a 'super male', because it can impregnate a male (at least in facehugger form). So even men are not safe from the consequences of this sexual violence. It can also 'penetrate' males in adult form, with its wang mouth thing.
The ship is called Mother (sort of), the crew are 'born' at the start of the film, and they look like children when they go outside in the suits (and actually were in many scenes during filming). The other aliens in the crashed ship are much larger, enhancing the 'child' impression.
Mother is breached with a foreign organism because protocol is ignored (by Ash, the company man/robot/father?) so it too is impregnated by the Alien, like a woman who should have known better.
Lambert is shown as a 'weak female' and she ends up raped by the super male Xenomorph. Ripley is shown to be a strong female, experienced and capable of handling the male aggression at the start of the film, so she is the only one equipped to deal with the super male.
The craziest scene is where Ash tries to Kill Ripley - he does it by shoving a phallic object (the rolled up magazine) down her throat. And he does it in the male quarters, where the walls are covered in pornography, symbols of male oppression of women.
There's much more too, I wrote an essay on it once. Really makes you appreciate how well crafted the film is, everything about it was just so well thought out and clever.
Vizionblind
Neo Member
ALIENS
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
AniHawk said:
I believe so yes.
Damn, lots of good stuff in here. I´ve only seen Alien once, just like Aliens, but I own the quarilogy now.
Never picked up the rape, but then it seems that there´s lots of stuff that you have to look out for in this movie. I want to watch the movies every now and then, but I never get around to it. That´ll have to change.
Never picked up the rape, but then it seems that there´s lots of stuff that you have to look out for in this movie. I want to watch the movies every now and then, but I never get around to it. That´ll have to change.
Black_Mamba
Member
If there was ever a perfect movie, Alien would be it. It's so scary, so down to earth for a science fiction movie... and what about the genius of the alien designs, including the eggs, early form of life etc.
It's on my top 5 films ever. Blade Runner is RS's second best.
I remember enjoying the sequel, Aliens, a lot, but I was too young. This one definitely didn't age well. It's dumb, full of cliches (though you can say all the space marine cliches were created by it) and not a film for an adult, imo. Alien on the other hand is timeless.
It's on my top 5 films ever. Blade Runner is RS's second best.
I remember enjoying the sequel, Aliens, a lot, but I was too young. This one definitely didn't age well. It's dumb, full of cliches (though you can say all the space marine cliches were created by it) and not a film for an adult, imo. Alien on the other hand is timeless.
BravoSuperStar
Member
Great thread, really enjoyed reading through it. Learned a lot of new stuff about one of my favorite movies. Personally I think Blade Runner is his best, and it's probably my favorite movie ever, but Alien is right up there. I love Aliens, but something about the original is just so disturbing. True horror.
The Blue Jihad
Member
Re-watching the movie, trying to see if the Lambert death scene implies any sexual aggression. Got to that part and I gotta say...I really don't see it. It's so, so short and the scream/gasp/Alien noises so, so short that it doesn't come across as anything but simple ultraviolent killing.
The rest of the movie is extremely sexual, yeah. But Lambert's death is really just too short for any rape implications.
If you want to say the Alien was exploring or examining her because she was the first female it came into contact with, sure. Granted, it's an extremely violent exploration but I don't know...I just can't see the scene being full-on rape. Maybe I'm just not approaching the scene with the right interpretive mindset but I truly don't see how it's rape and not just curiosity that kills Lambert.
The rest of the movie is extremely sexual, yeah. But Lambert's death is really just too short for any rape implications.
If you want to say the Alien was exploring or examining her because she was the first female it came into contact with, sure. Granted, it's an extremely violent exploration but I don't know...I just can't see the scene being full-on rape. Maybe I'm just not approaching the scene with the right interpretive mindset but I truly don't see how it's rape and not just curiosity that kills Lambert.
bonesmccoy
Banned
Chiggs said:
I've always taken that to be part of Batty's character; throughout the whole film he's a melodramatic child monster who couldn't do anything quietly. Now in the interests of disclosure, Blade Runner is easily my favourite Scott film.
Kingdom is a pretty pretentious film overall, but that's just the vibe I got from it.
The first time I saw Alien, it was about two weeks after seeing Aliens, and I went it to expecting more of the same. Man was I pissed. It wasn't until I re-watched Alien in November (after about 15 years since I had seen it last) that I finally realized it was a fantastic sci-fi horror flick.
Yeah, the strange courtship dance it does, the extremely disturbing noise and the fact that it removed her clothes have me pretty convinced she was raped or sexually explored in some way. It matches too well with Giger's design and some of the themes of the film (the fear of being infected/penetrated, things incorporated into almost every aspect of the Alien, right down to it's phallic head).
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
So much I missed from Alien movie
But then again this movie fucked me up as a little kid when I watched it and I only rarely watch it :lol
But then again this movie fucked me up as a little kid when I watched it and I only rarely watch it :lol
I did like how it showed how they roused the alien from its out in the open hiding spot, similar to the ending of the film. The way its tail unwinds and points at her.AniHawk said:
Gawd. The alien in this film is probably the only movie monster to really terrify me on such a primal level. The subsequent iterations really lost that aspect of them.
Edit: wikipedia on the space jockey:
I like that. I'd always assumed he was a victim of an infestation, but that puts an interesting twist on the premise.
D.Lo
Member
Yeah raped doesn't mean boned with tail or whatever. I'd thought of several of the deaths as rape of some sort.Spire said:
This film really needs a beautifully transferred Blu Ray release. I saw it in the cinema for the 20th anniversary (geez, even that was 11 years ago...), it's even more haunting and beautiful when projected.
Actually around 10 years ago was a fantastic time for cinematic re-releases. I saw 2001 (in 2001 lol), The Exorcist, Alien - must have been in the wake of the Star Wars special editions.
Anticitizen One
Banned
you guys are on some dope:
is Scott's best film. So good in fact that Shiggy Miyamoto ripped it off when he created "Zelda"
is Scott's best film. So good in fact that Shiggy Miyamoto ripped it off when he created "Zelda"
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