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[EatChildren]

It's a goof, of course, but it kind of hurts the theory that the filmmakers intended for Lambert to be "raped" by the alien. The shot wasn't even originally meant for her death.

Post production is still an important role of film making, and it doesnt matter if it was originally wrote for that scene or not. During editing, that is what they wanted to convey with that scene, and that is why they put it in.

 

[GhaleonEB]

What is something like that supposed to do at the size it was? Gnaw on your ankles? Brett had no reason to believe it was any bigger than it was when it burst out of Kane.

I agree, though you do see the light bulb go off when Brett finds the shed skin of the alien. At that point, he should have beat a hasty retreat back to the rest of the crew.

I don't agree at all. I don't want to get into anecdotal evidence or anything, but the two girls who watched it with me for the first time, were both sort of saying, "What the fuck?!?" during the Lambert death scene, because of the tail pointing straight up .

I like it. I don't think it cheapens it one bit--I think it makes the Alien better.

Sexual overtones, sure. The entire design of the alien has sexual overtones. But rape? No.

But...why did they use it for her death scene, then? What purpose would there be to her having a terrified look on her face, show the tail creeping between her legs, then having her screaming in pain, and later showing her bare leg with blood running down it?

Just sayin.

She wasn't screaming in pain, she was panicking to the point of hyperventilating. You can hear her say, "It's coming...." over the intercom, and I don't think she meant in the sexual sense. It was approaching her. She screams exactly once, when you hear the alien attack. It moves in slowly, but strikes quickly.

Just as it did with Brett. The only time it moves quickly was in grabbing Parker* (who advanced aggressively on it), and even then it takes its time killing him.

*And Dallas, who was armed.

 

[BertramCooper]

Post production is still an important role of film making, and it doesnt matter if it was originally wrote for that scene or not. During editing, that is what they wanted to convey with that scene, and that is why they put it in.

But if the shot were used for the death of a male character - as it was originally intended - would you still believe that the alien committed rape?

I'm not saying it's not possible, but I think people read too far into it. The sexual subtext of the film isn't quite that blatant, IMO. It's more about sexual symbolism than overt sexual acts.

I also think such interpretations sexualize a creature that appears to be biologically asexual. We may view the alien as being masculine, but is it ever really assigned a gender within the context of the film?

 

[mjc]

I don't think the alien raped her, but it most likely "explored her" in some capacity because her clothes were torn off of her.

 

[AniHawk]

I don't think the alien raped her, but it most likely "explored her" in some capacity because her clothes were torn off of her.

On second thought, it was probably the cat.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

what do you guys think of Ridley Scott returning to the ALIEN world with the new film coming out next year?


I'm excited- mostly for a filmmaker the caliber of Scott to come back to the ALIEN series after those AvP shitfests (although Resurrection was fairly mediocre, Jean-Pierre Juenet is a brilliant filmmaker, IMO).

Not crazy about the idea of 'exploring' the space jockey angle, though. It was so much more eerie with Dallas & his team just coming across it with no further details.

 

[AniHawk]

what do you guys think of Ridley Scott returning to the ALIEN world with the new film coming out next year?


I'm excited- mostly for a filmmaker the caliber of Scott to come back to the ALIEN series after those AvP shitfests (although Resurrection was fairly mediocre, Jean-Pierre Juenet is a brilliant filmmaker, IMO).

Not crazy about the idea of 'exploring' the space jockey angle, though. It was so much more eerie with Dallas & his team just coming across it with no further details.

I'm hoping for something like the first Alien where it didn't use a shitload of gore to shock or scare people. I'm not too worried about exploring the space jockey unless it comes to life. Those things were supposed to be dead for millions of years before the crew of the Nostromo found them.

Weyland-Yutani knew about the ship on LV-426, and that there was some sort of perfect organism there, so I'm guessing that's what this prequel would have to be about.

 

[Space Runaway]

what do you guys think of Ridley Scott returning to the ALIEN world with the new film coming out next year?


I'm excited- mostly for a filmmaker the caliber of Scott to come back to the ALIEN series after those AvP shitfests (although Resurrection was fairly mediocre, Jean-Pierre Juenet is a brilliant filmmaker, IMO).

Not crazy about the idea of 'exploring' the space jockey angle, though. It was so much more eerie with Dallas & his team just coming across it with no further details.

Wonder how they'll handle the technology aspects. It would make sense to keep it in line with the first (Analog video screens and all) but they never seem to do that with movies...Sucks because all the out of date future designs in Alien still look way cooler than the slickest shit they can put on-screen today.

 

[mantidor]

I also think such interpretations sexualize a creature that appears to be biologically asexual. We may view the alien as being masculine, but is it ever really assigned a gender within the context of the film?

Well literally aliens are like ants or bees, but the design of the alien is extremely sexual, so obviously people are going to see some subtext. I remember reading about the chestburster scene and how disturbing it was precisely because in subtext it was a violent male rape scene, the creature is obviously very phallic, it was basically a dented penis ripping a man from the inside.

 

[JB1981]

what do you guys think of Ridley Scott returning to the ALIEN world with the new film coming out next year?


I'm excited- mostly for a filmmaker the caliber of Scott to come back to the ALIEN series after those AvP shitfests (although Resurrection was fairly mediocre, Jean-Pierre Juenet is a brilliant filmmaker, IMO).

Not crazy about the idea of 'exploring' the space jockey angle, though. It was so much more eerie with Dallas & his team just coming across it with no further details.

wait, this is definite? Scott has a history of getting attached to a lot of different projects and never actually producing them ....

 

[JB1981]

... ... I'd probably prefer the Ressurection to Aliens... atleast in entertainment value. But I can't stress enough, the movie just clicks very well with me... it seems like Jeunet tells a story the way my eye/brain likes and while its story is pretty forgetable there's something about the visual design that captivates me. It's probably the best looking Alien-movie.

wow we have very different eyes. Alien Resurrection looks like a movie made for TNT. Alien 3 is an immensely better looking movie and the movie doesn't hold a candle to the original, which is just masterfully shot.

 

[Stahsky]

I keep reading this thread as "RIP Ridley Scott" and nearly knock over a magazine rack every time.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Well literally aliens are like ants or bees, but the design of the alien is extremely sexual, so obviously people are going to see some subtext. I remember reading about the chestburster scene and how disturbing it was precisely because in subtext it was a violent male rape scene, the creature is obviously very phallic, it was basically a dented penis ripping a man from the inside.

Thought I'd add that Giger's work that inspired the alien design literally had a giant penis on his head. O'Bannon and Scott saw that and asked him to do a version for the film, and be slightly less obvious about it. So clearly they were interested in the sexual overtones.

Image of the origin work here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:H.R._Giger_-_Necronom_IV.jpg

If they do a reboot/prequel, I hope they reimagining of the alien that includes the stage IV that Giger designed, but wasn't used due to technology reasons. This is from the book, "Giger's Alien", and was intended to bhe final alien development stage:

I've always loved that design, as it looks truly alien.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Rewatching Alien Resurrection, and wow. EVERYTHING is either some wide shot, a tilted angle, or an extreme zooming closeup. It's just annoying.

i love Jeunet's visual style, but that movie didn't work at all. like someone said earlier, it looks like a made-for-tv movie. so many corny moments - fork/fuck, ron perlman's one-liners, the 'ricocheting bullet' scene, and the very worst, dan hedaya's 'brains' face. no tension, no suspense, and the characters were horrid. and the cg was shit.

i've got high hopes for this prequel, given the director... but i'm keeping my expectations in check.

 

[Leckan]

Well literally aliens are like ants or bees, but the design of the alien is extremely sexual, so obviously people are going to see some subtext. I remember reading about the chestburster scene and how disturbing it was precisely because in subtext it was a violent male rape scene, the creature is obviously very phallic, it was basically a dented penis ripping a man from the inside.

When you put it like that...

 

[JdFoX187]

I always saw Ressurection as a fanmade film with no soul. The shit just didn't make any sense. From cloning Ripley to the alien halfbreed, the whole thing was a mess. Alien 3 wasn't much better, but at least it felt like an Alien movie.

 

[EatChildren]

I always saw Ressurection as a fanmade film with no soul. The shit just didn't make any sense. From cloning Ripley to the alien halfbreed, the whole thing was a mess. Alien 3 wasn't much better, but at least it felt like an Alien movie.

Alien 3 is amazing and you'll shut your whore mouth if you know whats good for you, Turian.

 

[AniHawk]

Yeah, Resurrection felt like this weird crossbreed between Alien and Aliens. And the writing sucked. I want to blame it all on Whedon too, because of stuff like the part where Purvis keeps asking what's inside him felt a lot like something Whedon would do AND IT WAS A FUCKING TERRIBLE SCENE. RIPLEY CLONE IS STANDING RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM AND SAYS NOTHING.

And there wasn't really a main character you could follow or identify with. The aliens didn't want to kill Ripley, and Call is a damn android and we all know by now how hard it is to destroy those things.

 

[BravoSuperStar]

Alien 3 is not bad, but please it's still a good few steps above Resurrection.

And I would love a story that explores the background of the "space jockey". Thats been an underused aspect to the alien franchise. How did the ship get there? Was it an accident? Where is the true homeworld of the Alien?

 

[subzero9285]

The Ridley Scott prequel film has been known as 'Alien Harvest', but that's probably just a working title or a fabrication by IMDB.

There's also a script doing the rounds on the net at the moment that's supposedly been leaked. I'm very sceptical about this and it's most probably a fake.

It is interesting nonetheless, here's the script in case anyone wants to read through it.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4083772/24549638-Alien-Harvest.pdf

 

[EatChildren]

And I would love a story that explores the background of the "space jockey". Thats been an underused aspect to the alien franchise. How did the ship get there? Was it an accident? Where is the true homeworld of the Alien?

I like the mystery and dont want it explored. The wonder of seeing the Nostromo crew exploring a derelict, mysterious, ancient space craft would be lost if given a history.

 

[subzero9285]

I like the mystery and don't want it explored. The wonder of seeing the Nostromo crew exploring a derelict, mysterious, ancient space craft would be lost if given a history.

You'll hate the script above then.

 

[EatChildren]

You'll hate the script above then.

Then there's only one thing left to do; kill Ridley Scott.

 

[Neverender]

Then there's only one thing left to do; rape Ridley Scott.

fixed

 

[AniHawk]

The Ridley Scott prequel film has been known as 'Alien Harvest', but that's probably just a working title or a fabrication by IMDB.

There's also a script doing the rounds on the net at the moment that's supposedly been leaked. I'm very sceptical about this and it's most probably a fake.

It is interesting nonetheless, here's the script in case anyone wants to read through it.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4083772/24549638-Alien-Harvest.pdf

That's gotta be a fake. It's stupidly awful.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Yeah, Resurrection felt like this weird crossbreed between Alien and Aliens. And the writing sucked. I want to blame it all on Whedon too, because of stuff like the part where Purvis keeps asking what's inside him felt a lot like something Whedon would do AND IT WAS A FUCKING TERRIBLE SCENE. RIPLEY CLONE IS STANDING RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM AND SAYS NOTHING.

having watched some more of whedon's stuff after that (bf is a big fan for some reason) i realised a lot of the blame rests on him and his penchant for wisecracking space cowboys. horrible.

read a bit of that script and my first thought was - does there even need to be an alien prequel? i'm a sucker for all things alien but i just don't see how they could make something that really fits with the existing movies. the first 3 just feel like a beginining, middle and end to me and that it should be left that way. i prefer the mystery.

 

[JdFoX187]

Alien 3 is amazing and you'll shut your whore mouth if you know whats good for you, Turian.

:lol Amazing is a bit much. Perhaps I should go re-watch it. My favorite part from the last time I saw it, which was the better part of 10 years ago, was the big speech when Newt and Hicks were cremated.

 

[Sub_Level]

Assembly cut of Alien 3 is really good. Still a disappointing sequel, but a good movie on it's own merits. I have no problem considering it canon.

 

[BravoSuperStar]

My biggest disappointment with part 3 was how nonchalantly they dealt with Newt (and Hicks to a lesser extent) deaths. After the bonding they went through in the 2nd movie, with Ripley basically taking over as newts mom, and then oh, they're dead. Sorry. Just didn't do the dynamic of their relationship justice I thought. To be honest I wish they would make Alien 3 just a dream and pick up with Ripley, Hicks and Newt (grown now) and something based on the Earth War comics.

 

[EatChildren]

My biggest disappointment with part 3 was how nonchalantly they dealt with Newt (and Hicks to a lesser extent) deaths. After the bonding they went through in the 2nd movie, with Ripley basically taking over as newts mom, and then oh, they're dead. Sorry. Just didn't do the dynamic of their relationship justice I thought. To be honest I wish they would make Alien 3 just a dream and pick up with Ripley, Hicks and Newt (grown now) and something based on the Earth War comics.

The Ripley/Hicks/Newt family adventure is the worst idea ever and I'm so, so glad the franchise never went in that direction. It was fine for Aliens, but it needed to be left there.

 

[BravoSuperStar]

The Ripley/Hicks/Newt family adventure is the worst idea ever and I'm so, so glad the franchise never went in that direction. It was fine for Aliens, but it needed to be left there.

Well you're the guy that doesn't want to learn about the Space Jockeys backstory either so....

 

[EatChildren]

Well you're the guy that doesn't want to learn about the Space Jockeys backstory either so....

I am the real Ridley Scott, my soul trapped in this digital nightmare. Who are you? Where am I? Traveller, listen; Cameron has stolen my body. He's going to make a movie that butchers the mystery of Alien and the iconology of the lone, female warrior.

You must destroy him. You're my only hope.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

My biggest disappointment with part 3 was how nonchalantly they dealt with Newt (and Hicks to a lesser extent) deaths. After the bonding they went through in the 2nd movie, with Ripley basically taking over as newts mom, and then oh, they're dead. Sorry. Just didn't do the dynamic of their relationship justice I thought. To be honest I wish they would make Alien 3 just a dream and pick up with Ripley, Hicks and Newt (grown now) and something based on the Earth War comics.

it was pretty abrupt and quite shocking, but i thought it just added to the overwhelming depressing, isolated and bleak feel. it's such a lonely feeling film; all greys, browns, blues, wind & rain but i really do love it if i'm in the mood.

the way it's shot is just amazing, and it continued the theme of the first 2 well. in the end the alien might overcome her but at least the company doesn't get what it wants. it's a fitting end.

alien resurrection took a shit on the series and her character - ripley's death was all for nothing.

 

[Blader]

I only read the first 10ish pages of that script. It sucks.

 

[ChoklitReign]

Did anyone else not like BHD? I thought it was boring aside from the cinematography. Funny how the first 10 minutes were ripped off in Resident Evil 5.

 

[Lorr]

I'm always a little hurt when I see someone claim Aliens is the better film, so it makes me happy seeing all the Alien love here. I'm excited to see what Scott does with the prequel, but I'd rather see him focus on something else like Brave New World or Forever War first. Also, I hope he leaves the Space Jockey alone.

As far as my favorite Scott film goes, it's probably Blade Runner followed closely by Alien, with Kingdom Of Heaven: DC right behind it.

 

[JdFoX187]

What's the general rundown on the script? I've just heard rumors and conjectures about where Fox/Ridley want to take the prequel. But that is a lot to read for a simple synopsis.

 

[Spire]

The Ridley Scott prequel film has been known as 'Alien Harvest', but that's probably just a working title or a fabrication by IMDB.

There's also a script doing the rounds on the net at the moment that's supposedly been leaked. I'm very sceptical about this and it's most probably a fake.

It is interesting nonetheless, here's the script in case anyone wants to read through it.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4083772/24549638-Alien-Harvest.pdf

That's a fan-made script if I've ever seen one.

 

[mantidor]

The Ripley/Hicks/Newt family adventure is the worst idea ever and I'm so, so glad the franchise never went in that direction. It was fine for Aliens, but it needed to be left there.

This so much. Alien 3 was a million times better with them dead. And they weren't treated nonchalantly, Ripley mourned them for about a quarter of the whole film at the beginning. She had to endure their autopsies and everything. It made the whole thing so hopeless and full of despair which I think was the objective.

The thing is that Alien and Aliens are such completely different movies that they could perfectly be about two different creatures and two completely different set of characters and few people would notice. It's awesome for fans of both but liking one is no guarantee you'll like the other. Alien 3 was trying to take the direction of the first one, thats why it's so loved/hated.

 

[Zeliard]

I'm always a little hurt when I see someone claim Aliens is the better film, so it makes me happy seeing all the Alien love here.

I've never really understood that comparison since they are almost completely different movies. They share the same visual style, characters, and universe, but the storytelling and action is worlds apart.

Aliens is as pure an 80s testosterone-laden American action flick as you'll find, while Alien is basically the direct opposite, featuring a single environment, relatively little action, only one Alien and putting its major focus on horror/terror (essentially being the highly superior precursor to the slasher genre).

I think they're just two extremely different movies. I don't pick between one or the other because both offer entirely different experiences. The only thing Aliens was "missing" was Arnold.

 

[speculawyer]

I'm sticking with Blade Runner. I am a fan of the under appreciated Black Rain. And Alien is great.

 

[speculawyer]

I've never really understood that comparison since they are almost completely different movies. They share the same visual style, characters, and universe, but the storytelling and action is worlds apart.

Aliens is as pure an 80s testosterone-laden American action flick as you'll find, while Alien is basically the direct opposite, featuring a single environment, relatively little action, only one Alien and putting its major focus on horror/terror (essentially being the highly superior precursor to the slasher genre).

I think they're just two extremely different movies. I don't pick between one or the other because both offer entirely different experiences. The only thing Aliens was "missing" was Arnold.

Exactly. I think Cameron was very smart . . . instead of trying to compete with a great movie by making something like it, he avoided suspense & horror and went with adrenalin action. Both movies are great.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

I've never really understood that comparison since they are almost completely different movies. They share the same visual style, characters, and universe, but the storytelling and action is worlds apart.

Aliens is as pure an 80s testosterone-laden American action flick as you'll find, while Alien is basically the direct opposite, featuring a single environment, relatively little action, only one Alien and putting its major focus on horror/terror (essentially being the highly superior precursor to the slasher genre).

they're quite different in approach, but i like how the themes are the same, and were carried through to alien 3 well - that of ripley being essentially alone in the face of this crazy alien and the company manipulating things behind the scenes. i think the fact they're compared so much shows how well cameron carried over the style and feel of the first.

 

[oracrest]

Man, the original trailer was so so well done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojhGdRSkiUw

so good.

 

[tino]

I doubt the prequel project will go through. RS has too much to lose. He will only do it if he has two commercial bombs in a role.

He probably just sitting on it so Fox won't get someone else to make it.

THE FOREVER WAR IS A GREAT STORY THAT NEED TO BE TOLD ON A BIG SCREEN DO YOU HEAR ME RIDLEY SCOTT?

 

[AniHawk]

I only read the first 10ish pages of that script. It sucks.

But you're missing so much. The mind-power enforced gay sex, the karate fight against the cat-alien, the attack of the ant-aliens, and like four people on another ship that don't do anything.

Fortunately it's fake, unless "hard cock" is a phrase that's made its way into many action descriptions for Hollywood movies.

 

[AniHawk]

What's the general rundown on the script? I've just heard rumors and conjectures about where Fox/Ridley want to take the prequel. But that is a lot to read for a simple synopsis.

Well it's fake, but here goes:

2 dudes and a cat are on some Space Jockey planet
Space Jockeys are harvesting things, and they can control things with their minds
4 people on some ship are in space somewhere
Some Space Jockey ship crashes and a chestburster kills the pilot

Then
Space Jockey makes one dude rape the other dude by using mindpowers.
Cat goes into room with ant-aliens and dies when a chestburster kills it
One of the 2 dudes has a karate fight with the cat-alien while the other is attacked by ant-aliens
4 people on some ship are in space somewhere
The 2 dudes now love each other
The chestburster that killed the Space Jockey eats the Space Jockey's organs

And finally
The 2 dudes realize they've been harvesting tiny Alien eggs
The 2 dudes get rescued by some people on the ship
One of the two dudes kills the other one for some reason
Now 5 people on some ship are in space somewhere
Meanwhile, some Android is being reprogrammed with directions to capture an Alien and it's DUN DUN DUN ASH FROM THE FIRST MOVIE.

The End

 

[AniHawk]

I wonder why the Alien killed Lambert when it made eggs out of Brett and Dallas.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Yes good god.

Finally found a video with that shot in it, here. Yup, still freaks me out. (The rest of the video stitches together all the unused footage from that scene, but just that one shot was in the extended cut of the film. For some reason it really unnerved me.

I wonder why the Alien killed Lambert when it made eggs out of Brett and Dallas.

It also killed Brett, but he could apparently be converted to an egg even when dead. Probably had some kind of embryo planted on him that does the job.

The alien only attacked when it had the advantage of surprise - I think it was in the process of moving Lambert and Parker when Ripley showed up, so it hid.

 

[AniHawk]

Finally found a video with that shot in it, here. Yup, still freaks me out. (The rest of the video stitches together all the unused footage from that scene, but just that one shot was in the extended cut of the film. For some reason it really unnerved me.


It also killed Brett, but he could apparently be converted to an egg even when dead. Probably had some kind of embryo planted on him that does the job.

The alien only attacked when it had the advantage of surprise - I think it was in the process of moving Lambert and Parker when Ripley showed up, so it hid.

That theory makes sense. I have to say, the idea of the original alien life cycle is much scarier than what Cameron came up with. The alien was more frightening when it seemed less like an animal.