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[Rumor] [MLiD] PSSR 2 Reportedly Doesn’t Have Frame Generation in the Plans: "developers hate it, hate it, hate it."
- Thread starter LectureMaster
- Start date
- Rumor
Luipadre
Member
Not on nvidia cards on pc
omegasc
Member
oh I know it won't be released early. I kinda expect it around March '26, which is a bummer.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
So is he saying the console devs hate Framegen? Or that they hate PSSR2?
Why they should hate PSSR? Isn't exactly shocking hear many developers don't appreciate frame generation because on console it's just used to reach 60 fps and actually it's not enough "good" to replace real 60 fps. Guess they referring mainly of the actual console situation, we are talking about the developers contacted by Sony to have their feedbacks. Well if the source of this rumour it's really trustworthy.
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Boss Mog
Member
Multiple peoples in the thread interpreted the same
So you're off bullshitting that it's obvious you're talking about reflex 2 and that it's nvidia's fault you interpreted it as a mainstream feature… which they never did, go and look back at the announcements of reflex 2 and you maybe have a single case where FG + Reflex 2 is possible…
Sure buddy.
Who are the imaginary people who "interpreted the same "as you? Nobody quoted me other than you, and nobody liked the post where you made up some scenario in your head after I told you I was talking about Reflex 2.
I made a statement. You misinterpreted it. I told you the correct interpretation. And instead of that being the end of it, you're here making up scenarios in your head like some mentally ill person. You're right, I tried, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink, believe what you want to
. I'm not gonna waste any more time on this.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Who are the imaginary people who "interpreted the same "as you? Nobody quoted me other than you, and nobody liked the post where you made up some scenario in your head after I told you I was talking about Reflex 2.
I made a statement. You misinterpreted it. I told you the correct interpretation. And instead of that being the end of it, you're here making up scenarios in your head like some mentally ill person. You're right, I tried, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink, believe what you want to
Gaiff
and
Bojji
for one who thumbs up my postWhy would anyone even think of reflex 2, it's near non existant. You can't even find a video of reflex 2 + FG even if you tried, so again, pulled out of your ass, poor attempt at shitting on Nvidia without knowing wtf you're talking about.
« Hur dur dur it was said to be a mainstream feature! »
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
I don't use it.
saintjules
Gold Member
Too lazy to make a thread but
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The_hunter
Member
I guess they will go in this direction to push path tracing.Too lazy to make a thread but
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Too lazy to make a thread but
So PSSR 2 Frame Generation is probably coming to the PS5 Pro in 2027 then.
Guardian Monkey
Member
Handheld..
Rising_Hei
Member
I own a 5070 PC and a 4060 laptop, and I never turn that on; the input lag feels atrocious; of course, they hate it.
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LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I'm running FG on CP2077 with PT and now with Crimson Desert. Delighted with the results. I'm not sitting here looking at input lag numbers as if my life depended on it. I got it maxed at 4k DLSS quality with 2xFG running at 100-120fps
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
In a detailed interview coming soon on Digital Foundry, PlayStation 5 lead system architect Mark Cerny has shared more on the Project Amethyst collaboration with AMD, confirming that ML-based frame generation is coming to "PlayStation platforms" but advising us not to expect any further updates this year.Too lazy to make a thread but
"Just to clarify a few things about the collaboration with AMD, the new PSSR uses the same core co-developed algorithm as FSR Redstone's Upscaling (to avoid confusion, I'll use the new names today rather than FSR4)," Cerny shared. "FSR Frame Generation is also based on co-developed technology (or as my good friend Jack Huynh puts it, 'co-engineered technology'). I'm very happy with how that work is progressing, and an equivalent frame generation library should be seen at some point on PlayStation platforms."
The question is, what PlayStation platforms? We asked how Sony would determine which machine learning-based innovations would come to PlayStation 5 Pro and which may be targeted at next generation hardware instead. Right now, FSR Redstone consists of upscaling, frame generation and ray regeneration components.
"Great questions, particularly considering that FSR Frame Generation is technology that was co-developed between SIE and AMD, we're intimately familiar with it," Cerny revealed. "All I can say is that we have no more releases planned for this year. And that I look forward to discussing this more in the future!"
Alan Wake 2 delivers challenging base imagery for the newly upgraded PSSR, but we were genuinely impressed with the improvement vs the old upscaler.
The full interview goes into depth on the many facets of Sony's new PSSR roll-out, concerning bespoke patching for existing PS5 Pro games vs the system level "Enhance PSSR Image Quality" toggle, whether the new PSSR algorithm requires any further game inputs, and how the performance cost of the revised upscaler compares against the old.
Mark Cerny also responded to recent reports of a Sony patent, which speculated that a prospective "PSSR 2" might employ adaptive AI quality, minimising the need for dynamic resolution scaling in favour of adjusting upscaler precision instead. In DF Direct Weekly #253, we suggested that upscaling cost is already so slight that there'd be minimal improvements to frame-rate by using this technique.
"In February many noticed a patent regarding ML-based upscaling ("varying precision of weights and activations"), which led to dozens of articles, but that concept isn't part of the current PSSR/FSR work," Cerny stated. "We file many patents during the course of business, not all of which relate to released systems or future products."
nial
Member
PS6 in 2027.
ThisIsMyDog
Member
Because you are using it right, base fps should be minimum 50fps (but best aim for 60 tho) and then framegen feels great..
deeptech
Member
I get around 40ish with PT in re9 and use x2 framegen to get around 80, feels alright no troubles with inputlag, maybe it's game dependent. Changes experience dramatically though.
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CentralScrutinizer
Member
Technically not yet. PSSR2 doesn't have frame gen. Devs may in fact still hate it.
I didn't watch his video, just focusing on the title of the thread.
Zathalus
Gold Member
His "source" claimed Sony is not working on it. Not only are they working on it, the current version was co-developed by Sony.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
He'll be off to delete his video probably. He did that in the past when he's wrong.
CentralScrutinizer
Member
I have a feeling I'm gonna be a retro gamer only come 2030...
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
Frame gen (at least Nvidia's) is fine for pushing 60+ up to 120fps, or in better cases, 90+ up to 120 and beyond. But I have a feeling that it would be used to get a ~30 game to 60 on consoles, which would feel absolutely atrocious. Consoles already have way more input latency than PCs, generally speaking, since a lot of games rely on double/triple buffer vsync.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I don't know how this was ever in doubt...
saintjules
Gold Member
Bry0
Member
His "dev" sources are garbage unless they are leaking Sony dev portal docs. They are just as opinionated as him when it comes to any frame gen/ai features.
RafterXL
Member
There will be developers who try this, but I think most of the games will be like Sony first party titles that have 60 fps modes that they push to 120 with FG. It will probably be no different than switching between Quality and Performance modes as they currently are, just a toggle in the settings that people can use as they wish.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I thought this was commong sense among enthusiasts. It feels shoddy when basing it on under 40-50fps.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Is it dumb to want framegen to push games that are mid-50s to be in the 80s?
uncreativename
Member
Came here to post exactly this
Framegen is not needed or wanted by me in the vast majority of console games. Especially those with demanding graphics.
Having it as an option to developers isn't necessarily good. A bad option removed is a good thing.
The amount of PS6 games that this would fully benefit would be very few and I don't trust devs to use it correctly in a console environment when I don't micromanage those settings.
RafterXL
Member
I don't think so. In fact, even these 40 fps modes will probably play pretty damn well with FG enabled and having more options isn't a bad thing, IMO.
Well, you came about 4 months too late because it's happening and they were wrong.
uncreativename
Member
Oh :/ . Well I'm still glad I found something that me and #1 AI Cheerleader up there agree on :]
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Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
Only place you might see frame gen: GT7 and other racing games' replays. LOL
The_hunter
Member
Great use for framegen. Framegen could also be used in a real time cutscene.
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Bojji
Gold Member
You will see in most games next gen. Option to turn 60fps in 120Hz should be standard (I hope it doesn't go 30->60 way lol).
Mr.Phoenix
Member
What sony needs to do with the PS6 is make certain features a requirement for certification to gurantee a minimum degree of uality. I get leaving shit up to devs and all, but 9 outta 10 times doing so will bolster negligence and shitty products.
Eg.
- every game must have a quality mode of 1440p minimum rez running at minimum 40-50fps and a performance mode of 1080p. These are native resolutions
- stream wide toggles for PSSRx, which all games must have native support.
- system-wide toggle for FG
Yup, currently play fatal frame 2 on PC with Nvidia smooth motion on. Game cut scenes is 30fps capped, and gameplay is 60fps; with smooth motion that becomes 60fps and 120fps. Frame gen from 30fps to 60fps for all none interactive sections of a game is totally a great addition. Another example is gears of war reloaded, all cut scenes are 4K 30fps encoded, smooth motion make all of them 60fps making the transition into gameplay much smoother
Ev1L AuRoN
Member
FG can be transformative if well used, but it needs a good base. In my experience, 50+ FPS is the minimum to have a good experience, and a good frame pace is also important. Playing TLOU2 with FG versus 4k70fps is so impressive; I can barely tell the difference in input lag. On my 4k144hz OLED, FG is a godsend.
Good for you but please explain why you would be upset about added performance that's not taking anyone's job & it's not stealing art & rearranging it? It's just fill in frames created by the previous frames. There isn't even a moral argument against this.
Knightime_X
Member
you gotta turn vsync off when using framegen and for the love of god, don't use a multiplier higher than your refresh rate can even handle.
250fps on a 120hz monitor? you deserve all of those artifacts.
250fps on a 120hz monitor? you deserve all of those artifacts.
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CentralScrutinizer
Member
Because every time I use frame gen on pc the games look and feel like shit IMO?
I have never had one scenario where I thought it made a game look better, run better, or not introduce a massive tradeoff.
But it's an option so your comment about becoming a retro gamer wouldn't even fit with you not liking the look & feel of it .
CentralScrutinizer
Member
Will it be an option on console though? Obviously that's the concern. A feature some people don't like (in its current form) being rammed into consoles could be something we can't avoid at all if the hardware is built around it and depends upon it.
So I will hold out hope that it's done right and is not like it is today on PC, otherwise the hobby will begin turning me off unfortunately.
Have you played consoles in the last few years?
You can choose between performance & graphics.
CentralScrutinizer
Member
The difference between your point of view and mine is you are choosing to believe that developers will give us the option. I'm choosing to believe they won't (not in every case though).
For example, irregardless of us having performance / graphics options today, a lot of games with those toggles use some sort of FSR upscaling irregardless and that can't be shut off. So they are ramming in a feature that causes clear image quality issues and with the choices presented there's no way to opt out of that. Some games do this better than others but in the end the option doesn't exist to disable it.
My belief is once they cram frame gen into consoles, it will be a feature devs lean on to always be on no matter which graphical option you choose. And if PS6's version of frame gen is like what we are seeing on PC, count me out.
asdasdasdbb
Member
But the upscaling is part of how it hits the frame rate target.
Like I think most PS6 games will be 120 fps (with FG) and that will be the default setting. I could see a quality setting but would that have to be 30 fps?