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[jroc74]

This, plus potential for installing/downloading patches/DLC onto the cards. I don't know how feasible that is using Nintendo's current ROM solutions though.

Ideally no need for game installs from discs

I'll think of more I bet.


Edit: While we're at it, let's list the cons:

-Carts are orders of magnitude more expensive than discs, though way cheaper than they used to be
--Extra cost may turn off third parties
-No potential for DVD/BR playback (not that that would happen anyway)


Any more?

If any of this still holds true....why would anyone want carts again for a home console? Would it go back to the $69.99-$79.99 N64 days? Seeing how Nintendo games and price drops dont normally match the competition...

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

If any of this still holds true....why would anyone want carts again for a home console? Would it go back to the $69.99-$79.99 N64 days? Seeing how Nintendo games and price drops dont normally match the competition...

There have already been posts showing the price for the format Nintendo would be using are far cheaper than the cartridges Nintendo used to use.

 

[mikeyvids]

LTTP - Do the rumored specs for hardware (14nm Polaris, etc) lean to a home console, a handheld or hybrid system?

 

[Earendil]

At this point this seems more reliable

Holy crap, it has a PS/2 keyboard and a PCMCIA card!

 

[Vena]

From 10k's Twitter

Soo yeah, I'd say seems he was having his chained pulled based what appears to be a complete lack of verification (as well as him saying some of his sources "ran away") Though he did get the 4 NX ports corroborated at the least...

Do we know which sources ran away? Haha.

Also the developer has no access to the real devkit, just to the SDK, but he knows perfectly that it's a combination of different architectures and knows how much the performance can be optimised, again only from the SDK.

The "developer info" on the feature-sets is more than accessible from the API/SDK, if I see functions that are only present in 1.3 or 1.2, its fairly straightforward to conclude that it has to be one of these things or both. The "2x performance" is impossible to gauge, however, and can mean all sorts of things without context.

 

[Mpl90]

However, as the CPU rumor/leak hasn't been debunked and the GamerGirl information also remains un-challenged by Emily and others, one can still rather un-crazily conclude that we'll be looking at a CPU performance over the PS4 of roughly ~30-40% (or the equivalent smaller gains over the X1's CPU), and the GPU has to have had at least a 10-20% gain over the PS4's (not the X1s) to not introduce rather catastrophic bottlenecking in the opposite direction of what the twins are currently suffering from. Likewise the RAM also needs the throughput to make this feasible. All of this comes back around to Emily's notion of "specs are good"

Whatever the GPU ends up to be, this is the conclusion (with better comparison estimates) I thought as well. Consider this:

- Emily did NOT discard LCGeek's rumours about CPU in comparison with PS4 and One
- Emily backed 10k's rumours about the 4 WiiU-to-NX ports, and she never felt the need to say anything about the other rumours concerning the power
- Emily felt the need to calm down some of the speculation ONLY when it started reaching extremely insane heights in terms of power expectations (like NX > PS4K). A need to calm down things even if she deliberately took a bit of free time from Twitter, so it wasn't due to what said at the start of the thread, but due to past hours' escalation
- She still remarked how NX has "good specs"
- Also, she denied the gimmick rumour. But that doesn't mean the controller won't have a screen. Just that the feature won't be as described by 10k's sources

Spoiler

#teamgamepadcombinedewithwiimote

So, yeah, I'd say that, unless LCGeek is playing us like a damn fiddle (using his seemingly pretty good history with GC and Wii specs), and I don't know why he should do that now, I'd say NX (home) should be a bit better than PS4, or even slightly more than that.

 

[Neoxon]

LTTP - Do the rumored specs for hardware (14nm Polaris, etc) lean to a home console, a handheld or hybrid system?

The console coming out first.

 

[TunaLover]

If any of this still holds true....why would anyone want carts again for a home console? Would it go back to the $69.99-$79.99 N64 days? Seeing how Nintendo games and price drops dont normally match the competition...

The format cost is kinda irrelevant when they don't even drop their digital releases.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Going by his own post, 10k forgot to mention that his source told him that GPU is a combination of Fiji and Polaris and instead he went to post as info the speculation that it's a 14nm Polaris, which is in fact Thraktor's speculation, which fits perfectly (very close to confirmation bias) to Thraktor previously taking about Polaris being maybe used for NX (but in the handheld).

Also the developer has no access to the real devkit, just to the SDK, but he knows perfectly that it's a combination of different architectures and knows how much the performance can be optimised, again only from the SDK.

Even without trusting Emily, there are tons of red flags.

Not even touching the probability of Nintendo going for a console that costs many hundreds of dollars.

I'm guess that ins't possible?

Fiji = fury line. SDK very may well have fury nano as target specs, and also new GCN 1.3 features that will be on polaris.

I don't think it's that crazy.

The BOM on a cut down fury may be less than we all think as well, if AMD gave Nintendo a deal. We can't really say such a chip wouldn't be in the $100 BOM range, which would be workable for a $299-$399 launch price console.

 

[Matbtz]

I read all the reactions concerning Emily Rogers's tweet, the whole thread turn to hell for no reason whatsoever... The expectations went from "match ps4k" at below ps4 or even X1...
A few seems to forget that Emily Rogers (who is usually a nintendo pessimist) is pretty optimistic about the NX.

Direct quotes : " Wii U was an okay console. But I think NX will surprise people. I wish Iwata was alive to see everyones' reactions."

"I understand why people like the Wii U. But there are a few things I know about NX that have me feeling excited."

And she said the NX have good specs. I don't think she will say all that if we are gonna end up with a outdated console, with specs below X1 or even PS4 !

EDIT : I agree with Vena ! Good post

 

[Nanashrew]

I think he's serious, and he's technically not incorrect. No one at Nintendo's R&D and those with this information, would care about whatever the hell we're going in circles about. The info she has is obviously going to be second hand just as 10k's info is second-hand.

The bigger question is who is the developer who fed 10k this information (and who is feeding Emily this information, is it another developer?), as we know its a dev who told him about the Polaris-based operations within the API/SDK but never did said source claim actual Polaris and 14nm FinFET. As has been noted, that information does not actually conclude or pre-conclude 14nm/Polaris GPU, that was a conclusion that we jumped on in this thread and took to rather absurd heights.

The issue that arises from ruling out 14nm (which, I suppose, in and of itself has not been ruled out but common sense would generally err on the side of ruling out tech that is barely in production) leads to a very bizarre situation with the GPU. It, in many ways, leads to a conclusion that is effectively nonsensical unless AMD+Nintendo came up with a very bizarre but effective (both in cost and performance) amalgamation of feature sets between GCN 1.2 and 1.3. From a basic point of view, this would be MORE expensive than just making a 14nm Polaris GPU.

Of course, the way Emily worded her response could also be construed to be about Polaris 10/11 rumors that had been circulating as those are actual GPUs that one could get wrong... and are the only actual GPUs mentioned. Polaris in and of itself isn't a GPU its an architecture. You could have both rumors end up being true, end up with 14nm, but end up with a very custom GPU that is of the Polaris family but is considerably lower than Polaris 10/11 in performance and, as a consequence, price.

However, as the CPU rumor/leak hasn't been debunked and the GamerGirl information also remains un-challenged by Emily and others, one can still rather un-crazily conclude that we'll be looking at a CPU performance over the PS4 of roughly ~30-40% (or the equivalent smaller gains over the X1's CPU), and the GPU has to have had at least a 10-20% gain over the PS4's (not the X1s) to not introduce rather catastrophic bottlenecking in the opposite direction of what the twins are currently suffering from. Likewise the RAM also needs the throughput to make this feasible. All of this comes back around to Emily's notion of "specs are good".

Finally! Some sense!

 

[georly]

From 10k's Twitter



Soo yeah, I'd say seems he was having his chained pulled based what appears to be a complete lack of verification (as well as him saying some of his sources "ran away") Though he did get the 4 NX ports corroborated at the least...

Do we know which sources ran away? Haha.

That's out of context. Here's the full thing:

Don't bother messaging me about NX info you have anymore. Not unless you want to give me your work ID and proof.

Source PM's me saying they can confirm stuff. Iask for proof "No I don't want to get verified. Believe me or not is up to you". Wtf?

Do you not know how this works? Get the fuck outta here with that shit.

Edit: Forgot some.

@Tenkay23 Did anything happen with your sources? or other people are trying to act like "sources"?

yes. Some ran away and some are still adamant they're right.

@Tenkay23 Wait. So, you didn't ask for work proofs or IDs in the first place? Correct me if I'm wrong, though
@Tenkay23 Or is this about only a new wave of "leakers", not the older ones?

new ones.

Again, sounds like new sources, not old.

 

[ozfunghi]

Going by his own post, 10k forgot to mention that his source told him that GPU is a combination of Fiji and Polaris and instead he went to post as info the speculation that it's a 14nm Polaris, which is in fact Thraktor's speculation, which fits perfectly (very close to confirmation bias) to Thraktor previously taking about Polaris being maybe used for NX (but in the handheld).

Also the developer has no access to the real devkit, just to the SDK, but he knows perfectly that it's a combination of different architectures and knows how much the performance can be optimised, again only from the SDK.

Even without trusting Emily, there are tons of red flags.

Not even touching the probability of Nintendo going for a console that costs many hundreds of dollars.

You've already mentioned this. But you don't know what Thraktor has said to 10k so you are just as much assuming as 10k was. Bias indeed. Thraktor is one of the few tech-savvy posters here, along with Blu, that actually puts some effort into his posts, trying to make it understandable for guys like you and me. One of the few tech-savvy that actually take the effort to post in Nintendo topics, and i have not seen him show any bias in favor of hype in the years since i started following gaf.

But maybe you're privvy to the exact communication between Thraktor and 10k. That's always possible.

And how do you know the dev has no devkit? Has 10k said this? I think there were also sources other than the GPU guy that said there were devkits at actual developers?

 

[diaspora]

That's out of context. Here's the full thing:


Edit: Forgot some.



Again, sounds like new sources, not old.

He literally says "new ones".

 

[Mpl90]

Yeah, in our small exchange of tweets, since I asked about it, he literally said it were the new ones. They're trying to have him as "messenger of whatever" without wanting to get checks of any kind.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

That's out of context. Here's the full thing:

Edit: Forgot some.

Again, sounds like new sources, not old.

What context was lost, exactly?

 

[ozfunghi]

Yeah, in our small exchange of tweets, since I asked about it, he literally said it were the new ones. They're trying to have him as "messenger of whatever" without wanting to get checks of any kind.

Why not just post it on Reddit then?

 

[LegendofLex]

Why not just post it on Reddit then?

Perceived credibility.

 

[ZOONAMI]

What context was lost, exactly?

Yeah from the posting it was pretty obvious it was about new sources, but then, of course someone misinterpreted it to mean his old sources.

 

[Malus]

Why not just post it on Reddit then?

The NX subreddit doesn't allow random rumors anymore.

 

[Mpl90]

Why not just post it on Reddit then?

Probably because 10k is (still) considered a more reliable messenger, on a more reliable board like GAF. And because the fault (for some) would still fall on 10k, not on the fake insiders.

 

[diaspora]

Why not just post it on Reddit then?

I don't think he cares to distribute information that he himself is uncomfortable with as far as validity is concerned.

 

[Schnozberry]

You've already mentioned this. But you don't know what Thraktor has said to 10k so you are just as much assuming as 10k was. Bias indeed. Thraktor is one of the few tech-savvy posters here, along with Blu, that actually puts some effort into his posts, trying to make it understandable for guys like you and me. One of the few tech-savvy that actually take the effort to post in Nintendo topics, and i have not seen him show any bias in favor of hype in the years since i started following gaf.

But maybe you're privvy to the exact communication between Thraktor and 10k. That's always possible.

And how do you know the dev has no devkit? Has 10k said this? I think there were also sources other than the GPU guy that said there were devkits at actual developers?

I believe Thraktor's assumptions were based on one of 10k's sources mentioning a primitive discard accelerator being a feature available on the NX GPU, which would only exist on Polaris or some Frankenstein that AMD put together.

 

[georly]

What context was lost, exactly?

I couldn't tell if you meant to say his OLD sources were running or if it was his new (presumably as new as today?) sources, based on your post.

 

[Eolz]

Everyone should read Vena and Mpl90's post on this page.

 

[ozfunghi]

I believe Thraktor's assumptions were based on one of 10k's sources mentioning a primitive discard accelerator being a feature available on the NX GPU, which would only exist on Polaris or some Frankenstein that AMD put together.

Kingsnake is assuming Thraktor got the exact and original quote from the developer, talking about Fiji and Polaris. Thraktor was the "tech-gaf" source that 10k used to see if the tech info he got was credible. That's why it's likely that 10k told him, unlike the rest of us, the exact info the dev gave him. We don't know the exact conversation between 10k and Thraktor, so assuming the blame falls on Thraktor is just as bad.

 

[Roo]

Yeah, in our small exchange of tweets, since I asked about it, he literally said it were the new ones. They're trying to have him as "messenger of whatever" without wanting to get checks of any kind.

Yeah, and in case something goes wrong throw 10k under the bus..
Fuck that shit. If they really want to share info about the console then share some credentials as well.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

My feeling right now about making this thread:

 

[The_Lump]

I think he's serious, and he's technically not incorrect. No one at Nintendo's R&D and those with this information, would care about whatever the hell we're going in circles about. The info she has is obviously going to be second hand just as 10k's info is second-hand.

The bigger question is who is the developer who fed 10k this information (and who is feeding Emily this information, is it another developer?), as we know its a dev who told him about the Polaris-based operations within the API/SDK but never did said source claim actual Polaris and 14nm FinFET. As has been noted, that information does not actually conclude or pre-conclude 14nm/Polaris GPU, that was a conclusion that we jumped on in this thread and took to rather absurd heights.

The issue that arises from ruling out 14nm (which, I suppose, in and of itself has not been ruled out but common sense would generally err on the side of ruling out tech that is barely in production) leads to a very bizarre situation with the GPU. It, in many ways, leads to a conclusion that is effectively nonsensical unless AMD+Nintendo came up with a very bizarre but effective (both in cost and performance) amalgamation of feature sets between GCN 1.2 and 1.3. From a basic point of view, this would be MORE expensive than just making a 14nm Polaris GPU.

Of course, the way Emily worded her response could also be construed to be about Polaris 10/11 rumors that had been circulating as those are actual GPUs that one could get wrong... and are the only actual GPUs mentioned. Polaris in and of itself isn't a GPU its an architecture. You could have both rumors end up being true, end up with 14nm, but end up with a very custom GPU that is of the Polaris family but is considerably lower than Polaris 10/11 in performance and, as a consequence, price.

However, as the CPU rumor/leak hasn't been debunked and the GamerGirl information also remains un-challenged by Emily and others, one can still rather un-crazily conclude that we'll be looking at a CPU performance over the PS4 of roughly ~30-40% (or the equivalent smaller gains over the X1's CPU), and the GPU has to have had at least a 10-20% gain over the PS4's (not the X1s) to not introduce rather catastrophic bottlenecking in the opposite direction of what the twins are currently suffering from. Likewise the RAM also needs the throughput to make this feasible. All of this comes back around to Emily's notion of "specs are good".

Great post. This is a perfect summary of the whole rumour debunking rumour madness.

 

[DaSorcerer7]

My feeling right now about making this thread:

lol

 

[ozfunghi]

Everyone should read Vena and Mpl90's post on this page.

I read them. So, what are you trying to say? Do you know something?

 

[diaspora]

Well I mean did he even say that his source said it was Polaris or that he personally believed it was because of certain features being used?

 

[ozfunghi]

My feeling right now about making this thread:

Especially since you left out the most trustworthy info by LCGeek.

Well I mean did he even say that his source said it was Polaris or that he personally believed it was because of certain features being used?

His sourced said "polaris base with Fiji". Which would be much more credible the other way around. Fiji base + polaris features on top.

"Polaris-like features"

This is not what his source told him. This is what 10k chose to make of it.

 

[DaSorcerer7]

Well I mean did he even say that his source said it was Polaris or that he personally believed it was because of certain features being used?

"Polaris-like features"

 

[Peterc]

We need a whiteboard

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Especially since you left out the most trustworthy info by LCGeek.

Again, I didn't make this thread to gather up every single rumor, I made I thought 10k's post was interesting enough to get his own thread.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Well I mean did he even say that his source said it was Polaris or that he personally believed it was because of certain features being used?

"Polaris-like" I believe was the wording. The source also mentioned fiji.

Fiji = fury line. SDK very may well have fury nano as target specs, and also new GCN 1.3 features that will be on polaris.

I don't think it's that crazy.

The BOM on a cut down fury may be less than we all think as well, if AMD gave Nintendo a deal. We can't really say such a chip wouldn't be in the $100 BOM range, which would be workable for a $299-$399 launch price console.

 

[Schnozberry]

Kingsnake is assuming Thraktor got the exact and original quote from the developer, talking about Fiji and Polaris. Thraktor was the "tech-gaf" source that 10k used to see if the tech info he got was credible. That's why it's likely that 10k told him, unlike the rest of us, the exact info the dev gave him. We don't know the exact conversation between 10k and Thraktor, so assuming the blame falls on Thraktor is just as bad.

I don't think we need to blame anyone for anything. If anything the reactions to rumors are going to be insane. See the PS4K thread for instance. It's natural for excitement to breed unrealistic ideas.

 

[Malus]

Especially since you left out the most trustworthy info by LCGeek.

He also neglected to include my various memes and gifs.

 

[Eolz]

I read them. So, what are you trying to say? Do you know something?

I don't know anything on this specific topic (NX HW), just that they are the only ones making sense since some pages and would avoid some further confusion and weird posts.
Should have made my post longer to be more precise about this, sorry, I was on mobile.

 

[Nanashrew]

To sum up what Vena and Mpl90 said; Emily just grounded us back to reality because we were all floating away. Some still crashed into earth pretty hard though she never indicated the system would be weaker than the other 2 systems.

 

[Mpl90]

He also negelected to include my various memes and gifs.

And that's his worst omission. By far.

 

[Mpl90]

To sum up what Vena and Mpl90 said; Emily just grounded us back to reality because we were all floating away. Some still crashed into earth pretty hard though she never indicated the system would be weaker than the other 2 systems.

Those who crashed pretty hard did it so because it's the only way to live allowed by the Gods Of Nintendo Zealous Overdisappointment (or, shorter, G.O.N.Z.O.). The great way!

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

This thread is like a dog chasing its own tail even though it was born without one.

 

[Kissenkopf]

To sum up what Vena and Mpl90 said; Emily just grounded us back to reality because we were all floating away. Some still crashed into earth pretty hard though she never indicated the system would be weaker than the other 2 systems.

And still people act like she said that.

But it's a better atmosphere in here now. Every one calmed down and we are now in position were we can talk normal to each other again.

Again my guts tell me, we will gear something from Nintendo this week. My family and i have the oportunity to move to a great house in the next months so my hopes are that this week continues to deliver.^^

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

To sum up what Vena and Mpl90 said; Emily just grounded us back to reality because we were all floating away. Some still crashed into earth pretty hard though she never indicated the system would be weaker than the other 2 systems.

The heck are you talking about?

 

[Always-honest]

This thread is like a dog chasing its own tail even though it was born without one.

haha, now how did you come up with that expression?

 

[Nanashrew]

The heck are you talking about?

These
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201275826&postcount=7850
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201277484&postcount=7870

Both good posts.

 

[The_Lump]

I believe Thraktor's assumptions were based on one of 10k's sources mentioning a primitive discard accelerator being a feature available on the NX GPU, which would only exist on Polaris or some Frankenstein that AMD put together.

Yeah it was an educated guess* on Thraktor's part since "primitive discard accelerator" sounds like it might be related to a feature which Polaris definitely has.

I believe we have no conformation that the Polaris feature in question is actually called a "primitive discard accelerator", but it discards unneeded polygons (I think!) so seems to match that name.



*very educated!

 

[ozfunghi]

He also negelected to include my various memes and gifs.

Even worse!

No, my point was he chose to go for the hype topic, and not for the most credible piece of info there was. But maybe a mod said LCGeeks info wasn't enough for a new topic? I don't know.