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Russia begins Invasion of Ukraine

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QSD

Member
The MP in Parliament is a bit of a worry. However the TV host is at this point like taking Tucker Carlson seriously, and this thread is any judge sadly alot of people do.
... if Tucker were at risk of arrest and 15 years in the slammer for not following the party line, mind. You have to remember that these (Russian TV presenters) are people that live in fear. They're falling over each other to appear patriotic. If Putin falls this could well backfire massively for them. They're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
 
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Atrus

Gold Member
... if Tucker were at risk of arrest and 15 years in the slammer for not following the party line, mind. You have to remember that these (Russian TV presenters) are people that live in fear. They're falling over each other to appear patriotic. If Putin falls this could well backfire massively for them. They're stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Fear is not an excuse and frankly, this is something you are projecting onto them without proof. Their actions justify their guilt in regime atrocities regardless of their motivations.
 

RAÏSanÏa

Member
... if Tucker were at risk of arrest and 15 years in the slammer for not following the party line, mind. You have to remember that these (Russian TV presenters) are people that live in fear. They're falling over each other to appear patriotic. If Putin falls this could well backfire massively for them. They're stuck between a rock and a hard place.

A few fixate on the appearance of TV professionals who show courage in the face of fear instead of making excuses for the cowardly ones to throw a murmured barb.

[/QUOTE]

It's good to know she was only fined so far, although that was too much. Perhaps those that would have punished her more harshly don't have the means.
 
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IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
That was never the intention of the EU or NATO

The EU used just be a trading bloc. Now, a lot of EU member states don't control their own borders, use a unified currency and in some cases EU law supercedes law at a national level. You can certainly see it morphing slowly into a unified state.
 

QSD

Member
Fear is not an excuse and frankly, this is something you are projecting onto them without proof. Their actions justify their guilt in regime atrocities regardless of their motivations.
They are complicit, no doubt.
I've luckily never lived under an authoritarian and criminal regime like Putin's, so I don't feel I can judge them much further than that.
 

TwinB242

Member
The Russian foreign minister apparently just spoke at the UN and re-iterated that they won't stop until they have achieved Ukraine's de-nazification and de-militarization. This is disappointing. You'd think that they would have eased up on their ridiculous demands after 3 weeks of hard hitting sanctions and a lack of progress militarily. But if they're this committed to their bullshit invasion, then it might continue to drag on for a while.
 
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DrAspirino

Banned
Fear is not an excuse and frankly, this is something you are projecting onto them without proof. Their actions justify their guilt in regime atrocities regardless of their motivations.
Tell me you haven't lived in a country that has had a dictatorship/authoritarianism without telling me that.

If Putin is anything like Pinochet, you can bet your ass that the government has agents at those presenters' homes and at their kids schools. There's the case of a journalist here in Chile that blatantly lied on national TV during dictatorship, and did that because the state had a military guy 24/7 at his house and at his children's school. If, for any reason, he spoke something that Pinochet didn't like, he and his family would be dead (best case scenario) or "dissappeared" to one of several torture facilities that were throughout Chile.

Picture that same scenario, but instead of torture facilities in Chile, torture facilities in deep Siberia.

As QSD said, they truly are between a rock and a hard place.
 
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RAÏSanÏa

Member
The Russian foreign minister apparently just spoke at the UN and re-iterated that they won't stop until they have achieved Ukraine's de-nazification and de-militarization. This is disappointing.
Like an old dog chasing its own tail.

🎹 🎤 But if you try sometimes you just might find you just might find that you get what you need OOOHHH YEAH OH TELL IT TO ME :messenger_musical:
 

RAÏSanÏa

Member
Tell me you haven't lived in a country that has had a dictatorship/authoritarianism without telling me that.

If Putin is anything like Pinochet, you can bet your ass that the government has agents at those presenters' homes and at their kids schools. There's the case of a journalist here in Chile that blatantly lied on national TV during dictatorship, and did that because the state had a military guy 24/7 at his house and at his children's school. If, for any reason, he spoke something that Pinochet didn't like, he and his family would be dead (best case scenario) or "dissappeared" to one of several torture facilities that were throughout Chile.

Picture that same scenario, but instead of torture facilities in Chile, torture facilities in deep Siberia.

As QSD said, they truly are between a rock and a hard place.
That cowardly mindset given frail excuse is a reason those countries aren't in the West.

That TV lady who showed more courage than those has endured more scorn than the complicit who are getting showered with excuses for their cowardice.
 
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DrAspirino

Banned
That cowardly mindset given frail excuse is a reason those countries aren't in the West.
It's not cowardice when they know exactly what's going to happen to their families if they say one wrong thing.

If anything, it's cowardice and paranoia of their political leaders, that don't admit criticism.
 

RAÏSanÏa

Member
It's not cowardice when they know exactly what's going to happen to their families if they say one wrong thing.

If anything, it's cowardice and paranoia of their political leaders, that don't admit criticism.
9319603e-032c-4080-998c-2e5f6f6b2b98_screenshot.jpg
 

Havoc2049

Member
Seriously?






SERIOUSLY?

Because to me, staging a coup ON A FOREIGN DEMOCRACY is nothing short of being an asshole. The fact that Nixon died a free man, and Kissinger is still alive and free speaks loads of the hypocrisy of the US regarding foreign interventions.

...and the US government has the gall...THE GALL to criticize and ban Putin.

It sucks that Chile and many other countries around the world were stuck in the middle, as the vast majority of the people are just pawns in a big game. But hmm... Maybe there was some kind of global struggle for power going on at the time in the world. Maybe it was called the Cold War? Maybe the Soviet Union and the KGB were supporting Socialist and Communist parties in Chile at the same time the United States and the CIA were supporting pro-Western factions within Chile? Maybe the US Government wasn't too keen on having a pro-Soviet Union government in power in the Western Hemisphere? Maybe to lay the blame on Nixon is a one sided and short sighted argument, as Soviet Union and US involvement in Chile began in the early 1960's, under a previous administration?

Anyways, like I started out with, we are all pawns in a game. Unfortunately, the pawns paying the highest price right now are the brave people on the street in Ukraine fighting for survival.
 

SLoco

Neo Member

We already saw the reports about controlling media coverage internally (with an eye towards Taiwan), asking Russia to hold off until after Olympics, and the refusal of sanctions / offering to let Russian banks operate in China. Now China is trying to take advantage by seeking to further distance the price of oil from dollars. I'm starting to wonder if Putin is pursuing his own imperialist vision or China's.



India may be able to negotiate a better price for its share of Russian oil and gas imports since Russia’s oil market has shrunk, it emerged during the discussions, the official said.

SOURCE / ECONOMY
India reportedly explores yuan in oil trade with Russia






China will double the permitted trading range between its currency and Russia’s rouble to help bolster trade between the two countries as the Russian economy reels from western sanctions imposed after its invasion of Ukraine.





If countries stop using dollar as main trade currency it will cause big problems,then printing money without gold backing will just cause lot more inflation
 
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DrAspirino

Banned
If countries stop using dollar as main trade currency it will cause big problems,then printing money without gold backing will just cause lot more inflation
I'd give the dollar 20 years...maybe 30 at best. There's just too much pressure from China, Russia, and India to leave it, and both China and India combined have most of the manufacturing capability in the world (thanks to the US companies moving their factories to China and India).
 
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Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
A lot of the United State's economic leverage comes from the petrodollar. The potential consequences of letting the yuan get a foothold are unclear but troubling.

I'd give the dollar 20 years...maybe 30 at best. There's just too much pressure from China, Russia, and India to leave it, and both China and India combined have most of the manufacturing capability in the world (thanks to the US companies moving their factories to China and India).
Capitalism! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
The EU used just be a trading bloc. Now, a lot of EU member states don't control their own borders, use a unified currency and in some cases EU law supercedes law at a national level. You can certainly see it morphing slowly into a unified state.

Meanwhile the continent that for centuries had every generation live through a war is prosperous and at peace.

Remember Verdun!
 
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Edgelord79

Gold Member
One has to wonder if China is having second thoughts about backing Russia at this point.

The muds of Spring will be here in a week or two and that’s going to cause a clusterf&ck with Russia’s supply lines beyond what’s happening now. This area had a reputation in WW2 for being notoriously difficult for supply lines and machinery in the Spring.
 

boo

Gold Member
I'd give the dollar 20 years...maybe 30 at best. There's just too much pressure from China, Russia, and India to leave it, and both China and India combined have most of the manufacturing capability in the world (thanks to the US companies moving their factories to China and India).
Russia will probably cut their losses with regard to European trade and double down on China, India and other countries apart from Europe and the industrialized English speaking world. This will make the Russian economy contract quite substantially short term. But it seems that they are going to take Ukraine come hell or high water at this point while crushing it to rubble and not caring about Ukranian civilian casualties.
 

Thaedolus

Member
That cowardly mindset given frail excuse is a reason those countries aren't in the West.

That TV lady who showed more courage than those has endured more scorn than the complicit who are getting showered with excuses for their cowardice.
I’d have a hard time being “brave” if there’s someone holding a gun to my family’s head.

Like I know we’d all want to think we’d be willing to make a sacrifice for the greater good when the time comes, but grabbing a gun and heading to a fight where I might be the one getting blown up is completely different from lying because it’ll keep my kid’s head from being blown off…the failure here isn’t someone not doing what they have to do to save their family, it’s letting thugs and mob guys get control of the government so they can force people to have to make that choice.

This is why corruption laws and accountability for politicians are so important.
 

RAÏSanÏa

Member
I’d have a hard time being “brave” if there’s someone holding a gun to my family’s head.

Like I know we’d all want to think we’d be willing to make a sacrifice for the greater good when the time comes, but grabbing a gun and heading to a fight where I might be the one getting blown up is completely different from lying because it’ll keep my kid’s head from being blown off…the failure here isn’t someone not doing what they have to do to save their family, it’s letting thugs and mob guys get control of the government so they can force people to have to make that choice.

This is why corruption laws and accountability for politicians are so important.
That difficulty is the reason for my posting the Evey pic with her chemical shed decision from V for Vendetta. It does come down to that choice in that situation. The taking consideration of loved ones is part of it. The Russian invasion has forced that decision in the most immediate way on the Ukrainians and they fight against those making the threat with actual guns/bombs and horror to their loved one's heads.

As you say, it does underscore the importance of keeping corruption in check so it doesn't get to that point. ⚖️ 🪶
 

gundalf

Member
So what happens when the point is reached where Russia can't win but still keeps on fighting, wouldn't that be like state sponsored terrorism or even a genozid?
 
So what happens when the point is reached where Russia can't win but still keeps on fighting, wouldn't that be like state sponsored terrorism or even a genozid?
This is what I fear, sadly I can see Putin deciding it is me or them, and then you know what happens next.
 

Wildebeest

Member
If countries stop using dollar as main trade currency it will cause big problems,then printing money without gold backing will just cause lot more inflation
I think people prefer to use certain currencies to trade for reasons like they are easily accessible, and the price is not too variable, so you don't lose money on a deal just because of local instability. Already Iran was legally just bartering oil for goods to avoid dollar trade sanctions, but I doubt that is ideal, or we would all be bartering down the local market.
 

Atrus

Gold Member
Tell me you haven't lived in a country that has had a dictatorship/authoritarianism without telling me that.

I’m Asian. I was born in, lived in and travelled to plenty of dictatorships and authoritarian countries.

Various cultures have a set of values than transcend survival. Does yours? Does a leader get to do anything they want on the basis that might makes right?

Do you not think that this may be a key difference in how your society organizes itself for success versus other nations? That perhaps how your country compares to others is also weighted in how much it tolerates oppression?

Lots of of people have the cultural lived experience where delaying your own murder simply extends the killing spree, so while you’ve explained the situation in a dictatorship you haven’t explained the justification for compliance.

Ceasing to exist is inevitable but to die in shame is perpetual.
 

FunkMiller

Member
I'm not defending anyone here. What Russia has done is terrible and shouldn't have messed with Ukraine to begin with. My point is that no government (be the US or any other) has the right to meddle with other sovereign nations affairs.

Intervention is intervention, and it's WRONG, no matter how you sugar-coat it.

This is demonstrably wrong for anyone with a history book.
 

Liljagare

Member
I'm not defending anyone here. What Russia has done is terrible and shouldn't have messed with Ukraine to begin with. My point is that no government (be the US or any other) has the right to meddle with other sovereign nations affairs.

Intervention is intervention, and it's WRONG, no matter how you sugar-coat it.


Isn't it time to stop with the excuses? Interveene when you can.
 
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Atrus

Gold Member
German news about an incident regarding the Russian killing of an unarmed citizen with his hands up in surrender. The event took place awhile back but it took time to verify the info.

The Russians took the witnesses of the white car, what looks to be a woman and child, into the forest and their whereabouts are unknown.

English Article below and while the video is in German the Ukrainian drone pilot speaks in English so you can kind of make out what he says under the German dub.


 

Vestal

Junior Member


Just finished watching it.. Very well done documentary, although it did open up some wounds that will probably never heal. Mostly goes through Putin's career and how it all built up to this moment.


I do have some further thoughts on it, but they would tip-toe a bit too close to political talk to where it could trigger it.
 
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Relique

Member
And there are questions why Palestinians have difficulty with immigration and getting support from the West.

As someone who knows the culture very well I can tell you that these are supposed to be satire/trolling. The wedding singers basically roast and make fun of everything from people at the wedding, people from the village, the families of the groom/bride, and even make fun of current events. Although I agree this song in particular is in poor taste considering the suffering of the Ukranians, I can assure they don't actually believe any of it.
 

MrMephistoX

Member


Just finished watching it.. Very well done documentary, although it did open up some wounds that will probably never heal. Mostly goes through Putin's career and how it all built up to this moment.


I do have some further thoughts on it, but they would tip-toe a bit too close to political talk to where it could trigger it.

Frontline is so good: this is real journalism and it’s fucking terrifying.

Also Julia Ioffe is gorgeous and probably the smartest person in the documentary. Her full 45 minute interview is well worth watching.



If nothing else the last 60 seconds or so are again…fucking terrifying.

“If people think that he won't use them, I think they're mistaken. Everything Putin has showed us at every step of the last 22 years is that every time he think– we think he won't go that far, he does. We think he won't come back for a third term; he did. He won't annex Crimea; he did. He won't invade Ukraine; he did. He won't try to kill Navalny; he did. He won't try to subvert an American election; he did.

And so, why would we believe that this time he won't do what he says he'll do?

And then what, you know? If he– people are talking about what will we do if he strikes the US with a military– with a nuclear weapon? I don't think that's the question; I don't think he will strike the US with a nuclear weapon. What happens if he hits Kyiv with a tactical nuke? It's not an EU country. It's not a NATO country. But he used a nuclear weapon for the first time since World War II. How do we respond? Do we do nothing and wait for a second? Do we retaliate and get into this nuclear spiral?

I mean it's unthinkable. Like what he has opened up with this invasion is unthinkable. And because he is losing and because the sanctions and the Ukrainians are humiliating him, because he is backed into a corner, he is the most dangerous he has ever been because it is now existential for him. And if you think he doesn't know that everybody in the world understands that the only way to end this is to put a bullet between his eyes, he knows. And that makes him also much more dangerous.”
 
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Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Huh? The gas prices are wholly the fault of Biden and the left pushing “green” propaganda to get their bills through which had way more than climate change initiatives. They were going up along with everything else way before Russia attacked.
Do you believe that?
 

Tams

Gold Member

It's shit like this that makes me just switch off when people ask for sympathy for Palestinians.

This is at a wedding. People are dancing to this shit. So clearly it's not some niche view.

Not that Israel are great. Greedy, murderous fuckers.

I suppose the whole of the Middle East deserve themselves, quite frankly. I just wish they'd keep their insanity amongst themselves.
 

Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.

Has anyone confirmed that this is really what he's saying?
Like, what the fuck is that guy smoking? Launching an ICBM at the US will only lead to millions of dead Russians. That is an incredibly stupid idea.
 
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