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[Relique]

Admitting that news networks aren't entirely honest doesn't mean I support Russia? It's not whataboutism to say that. It's a realistic view. I didn't respond to you last time because you implied that I support Russia just because I wish networks put more effort in their pieces. I'm not entertaining that ridiculous take. You have a very "support your media or you're the enemy" way of handling this conversation.

I was saying that it's hard to follow this war if you rely on large networks where they use buzzwords to pull you for a click and when you read the article, you learn nothing because it's content is in the middle of paragraphs of fluff. It was difficult to follow Georgia's response and actions when the war started because it wasn't all great and they just...didn't cover it. I had to do research to find out that Georgia wasn't sending the aid Ukraine needed. Of course I was disappointed with that but I want to learn everything and I don't think it should be this difficult. I even had to sometimes translate pages.

My family is Polish and my extended family lives in Belarus and Georgia. I flew into Kyiv for Christmas in 2021 and stayed with a family friend for a couple days, months before Russia invaded Ukraine. I've been following these events closely my entire life. Following it after the war started though has made the coverage a nightmare to dig through. The details aren't there anymore and key players aren't mentioned while major events have been misreported. The events have been Westernized if that makes sense.

I don't like to discuss the war with Americans because it's frustrating to say the least. It has nothing to do with their support, it's lack of basic geographic and political knowledge of the territories. Imagine talking to someone from Minsk and they claim they've been following the US elections and they get confused when you mention Iowa, Bernie Sanders, or electoral collage. "Oh I've never heard of that. I do know who Trump is though!" You would just smile and nod because you don't have the energy to explain all that. That's what it's like reading this reporting and conversations since this war started. It's like the people who were covering it for years have been pushed aside for more "TV friendly" reporters who couldn't spot or name any political figure that isn't Putin or Zelenskyy. And discussions see this war like a San Andreas gang territory map. I want accurate reporting and I shouldn't have to rely on family members group chat or VPN's to Polish coverage to get it.

And if you don't wish for me to engage in this thread often or if ever, you don't have to worry about that. I'm only giving this response to defend myself since you're keen on painting this negative image on me for not liking Western media's coverage of this war.

I sympathize with you. It's like I said here before... this is nothing more than a feel good and meme thread. There is no point in having any actual discussion. If you present any discussion point aside from praising Ukraine in here there are a select few posters that are quick to call you names because they disagree with you and apparently they got it all figured out.

Wow, admitting ignorance and being proud of it. Why don't you go back to the post where I cheered on Ukraine during thier counter-offensive on page 366? In this page, I gave massive props to the Ukrainian military's will and bravery to fight. That was my initial post. Praising the people of Ukraine.

Exhibit B. See above.

You guys are wasting your breath.

 

[M1chl]

Russian hypersonic missile accidentally strikes Russia​

newsweek.com/russia...

USA desperately needs to catch up in the hypersonic weapons race. US hypersonic strikes on Russia: zero. Russian hypersonic strikes on Russia: not zero.

 

[Nobody_Important]

I have to genuinely wonder if the stories of Russian soldiers being shocked by the "luxuries" of the average Ukrainian citizen are true.

I wonder if they have ever even used an electric kettle? Do they know they need the base?

 

[M1chl]

I have to genuinely wonder if the stories of Russian soldiers being shocked by the "luxuries" of the average Ukrainian citizen are true.

I wonder if they have ever even used an electric kettle? Do they know they need the base?

It is true, we experienced it in 1968, shit didn't progress there as much

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

Russian Teachers Asked to Give Part of Salary to Russian Soldiers: Report​

businessinsider.com/russia...

As if teaching wasn't a hard job, I guess soon it will be:

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

Fuck You Putler!!!!

 

[akimbo009]

Admitting that news networks aren't entirely honest doesn't mean I support Russia? It's not whataboutism to say that. It's a realistic view. I didn't respond to you last time because you implied that I support Russia just because I wish networks put more effort in their pieces. I'm not entertaining that ridiculous take. You have a very "support your media or you're the enemy" way of handling this conversation.

I was saying that it's hard to follow this war if you rely on large networks where they use buzzwords to pull you for a click and when you read the article, you learn nothing because it's content is in the middle of paragraphs of fluff. It was difficult to follow Georgia's response and actions when the war started because it wasn't all great and they just...didn't cover it. I had to do research to find out that Georgia wasn't sending the aid Ukraine needed. Of course I was disappointed with that but I want to learn everything and I don't think it should be this difficult. I even had to sometimes translate pages.

My family is Polish and my extended family lives in Belarus and Georgia. I flew into Kyiv for Christmas in 2021 and stayed with a family friend for a couple days, months before Russia invaded Ukraine. I've been following these events closely my entire life. Following it after the war started though has made the coverage a nightmare to dig through. The details aren't there anymore and key players aren't mentioned while major events have been misreported. The events have been Westernized if that makes sense.

I don't like to discuss the war with Americans because it's frustrating to say the least. It has nothing to do with their support, it's lack of basic geographic and political knowledge of the territories. Imagine talking to someone from Minsk and they claim they've been following the US elections and they get confused when you mention Iowa, Bernie Sanders, or electoral collage. "Oh I've never heard of that. I do know who Trump is though!" You would just smile and nod because you don't have the energy to explain all that. That's what it's like reading this reporting and conversations since this war started. It's like the people who were covering it for years have been pushed aside for more "TV friendly" reporters who couldn't spot or name any political figure that isn't Putin or Zelenskyy. And discussions see this war like a San Andreas gang territory map. I want accurate reporting and I shouldn't have to rely on family members group chat or VPN's to Polish coverage to get it.

And if you don't wish for me to engage in this thread often or if ever, you don't have to worry about that. I'm only giving this response to defend myself since you're keen on painting this negative image on me for not liking Western media's coverage of this war.

Ain't nobody judging the media in this thread or how this war has been covered. I don't even know why you're bringing it up. It's pretty obvious we're navigating the narrative just fine, and if you want to follow the conversation here, and the sources which we are self-moderating, maybe you wouldn't be so confused. It's really not that hard to follow along - honestly.

I sympathize with you. It's like I said here before... this is nothing more than a feel good and meme thread. There is no point in having any actual discussion. If you present any discussion point aside from praising Ukraine in here there are a select few posters that are quick to call you names because they disagree with you and apparently they got it all figured out.

Exhibit B. See above.

You guys are wasting your breath.

The fuck else it supposed to be? Some downer thread deeply analyzing Russian cleverness and success? Even if that was happening, and it was to some extent at the start of the war, they sure supply enough comedy for us to find distraction. But no, when military takes our your regional naval fleet - and your flagship - all while not having a navy you don't get to own the narrative. So yeah, when we don't want to think about Russians raping 3 year old kids and murdering women and children by the thousands we post some fuck Russia jokes... Yeah, forgive us.

How about this. You start a thread that focuses on the deep dark dialogue around Russian success, their rapes, their torturing, and keep their humiliation out of it.. go fo that, leave the clownshown for us to be entertained.

 

[akimbo009]

Why are you acting like I support Russia? Never let your guard down and never underestimate your enemy. I am just making speculations. You asked me a question and I answered it. Don't be a dick.

I know you aren't intending it - seen enough of your posts - but it does read like Russian fanfic at this point which is why you're getting a pile on. Things are moving VERY fast, but when Russia is falling back like this and are 50k dead, it's not really reasonable to assume they can recover to the same position as the start of it when they had military and tactical advantages - those are either no longer relevant or literally blown up or dead.

The real question is will Russia stay intact if they not only lose this conflict but also claimed territories like Crimea. As an autocracy, you rule through fear and success. If your army is shambles and you have no success - what then?

 

[funkygunther]

Where on Earth are you getting that I support Russia?

Essentially what I'm learning is:

Support Ukraine = "Ukraine supporter "
Support Ukraine + Not liking Western media's coverage of the war = "Russia supporter"

I don't know what to say to you. I hope one day that you visit Belarus, Ukraine, Molodov, Lativa, and especially the beautiful Poland. You'll gain a lot of perspective and stop classifying people to one side or the other because there's not 100% with your country or it's media. Most of my family who support Ukraine wishes the US would just disappear in the wind. That doesn't mean they're evil or support Russia, it just means that not all their interest aligns with yours and that's okay. Though to jump final conclusions like you're doing with your leading questions does nothing but drive down the conversation and for what, because I question Western media's coverage of the war? How absurd.

Your criticism of the media is just a strawman used, apparently, to talk down to people about how superior your perspective is to theirs. Sticking to specific contextual and factual examples of biased media would make it much more difficult for people to try to decipher the actual meaning of your posts, which could be anywhere between having a moan about the Western media and people in this thread, to trolling for attention, to running interference by distraction. All of which have already happened in here and that is why, when leaving your points open to interpretation, you are getting the responses you are getting.

 

[Tams]

Should I be worried with the lack of news about Ukraine advances?

I feel like I'm have fucking deja vu.

Seriously, we've already had someone post pretty much that in this thread. You might not be intending it, but you are scaremongering or spreading FUD.

 

[Tams]

USA desperately needs to catch up in the hypersonic weapons race. US hypersonic strikes on Russia: zero. Russian hypersonic strikes on Russia: not zero.

Not really. There is a need to not be complacent, but there are several hypersonic missiles projects ongoing in the 'West'.

The thing is, they don't want to make shit stuff just for show and that hypersonic missiles are overrated as they are almost uncontrollable once they are fired. If the target moves, then they're wasted.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

The problem with Hypersonic is Wind Tunnels. U.S need to build much more. China seem to be building them every day!

 

[Relique]

Ain't nobody judging the media in this thread or how this war has been covered. I don't even know why you're bringing it up. It's pretty obvious we're navigating the narrative just fine, and if you want to follow the conversation here, and the sources which we are self-moderating, maybe you wouldn't be so confused. It's really not that hard to follow along - honestly.



The fuck else it supposed to be? Some downer thread deeply analyzing Russian cleverness and success? Even if that was happening, and it was to some extent at the start of the war, they sure supply enough comedy for us to find distraction. But no, when military takes our your regional naval fleet - and your flagship - all while not having a navy you don't get to own the narrative. So yeah, when we don't want to think about Russians raping 3 year old kids and murdering women and children by the thousands we post some fuck Russia jokes... Yeah, forgive us.

How about this. You start a thread that focuses on the deep dark dialogue around Russian success, their rapes, their torturing, and keep their humiliation out of it.. go fo that, leave the clownshown for us to be entertained.

Neither of the above posters talked about any of the shit you are going on about as far as I can tell. Still got piled on which is the point I am making. If a person isn't here for the sole purpose that a few of you idiots in here deemed worthy, then that person must be in the Russia camp amirite?

How about you worry about what threads you wanna post and I worry about what I post? I don't go around telling you what to do and I wasn't even talking to you anyway. Mr. "fully mobilized" over there

 

[Rentahamster]

Opinions are strong in here and that's fine, but let's try to give posters the benefit of the doubt until they say something unreasonable.

Expressing nuance and asking for clarification can sometimes feel uncomfortable, but in the interests of good faith discussion, we should interpret each others' intentions in the best light because not everyone can express themselves perfectly over the Internet, and not everyone's first language is English.

 

[Lasha]

Interesting

 

[Halo is Back]

I know you aren't intending it - seen enough of your posts - but it does read like Russian fanfic at this point which is why you're getting a pile on. Things are moving VERY fast, but when Russia is falling back like this and are 50k dead, it's not really reasonable to assume they can recover to the same position as the start of it when they had military and tactical advantages - those are either no longer relevant or literally blown up or dead.

The real question is will Russia stay intact if they not only lose this conflict but also claimed territories like Crimea. As an autocracy, you rule through fear and success. If your army is shambles and you have no success - what then?

I could further elaborate my position by providing examples from other wars, but there would be no point in doing so. I want to make it clear that those scenarios were very hypothetical, but it is very clear Russia is losing the war. However, I will no longer be a part of this thread because I believe no nuanced discussions can happen.

Peace and glory to Ukraine.

 

[akimbo009]

Neither of the above posters talked about any of the shit you are going on about as far as I can tell. Still got piled on which is the point I am making. If a person isn't here for the sole purpose that a few of you idiots in here deemed worthy, then that person must be in the Russia camp amirite?

How about you worry about what threads you wanna post and I worry about what I post? I don't go around telling you what to do and I wasn't even talking to you anyway. Mr. "fully mobilized" over there

I'll let the othe person to tell you to pound sand then.

There are few of us who have been posting updates and going through this since day 1. Then a few folks come in and don't even bother reading the news, and then insult the whole thread as a "meme" thread - what ever that means - either stick around and be constructive or go post something elsewhere if you can't be part of it or hold back insulting the whole the whole thread.

 

[akimbo009]

I could further elaborate my position by providing examples from other wars, but there would be no point in doing so. I want to make it clear that those scenarios were very hypothetical, but it is very clear Russia is losing the war. However, I will no longer be a part of this thread because I believe no nuanced discussions can happen.

Peace and glory to Ukraine.

I'd encourage you to stick around. Wars are difficult to compare, take them as they are, but hope you realize there's more discussion happening here than not.

 

[Relique]

I'll let the othe person to tell you to pound sand then.

There are few of us who have been posting updates and going through this since day 1. Then a few folks come in and don't even bother reading the news, and then insult the whole thread as a "meme" thread - what ever that means - either stick around and be constructive or go post something elsewhere if you can't be part of it or hold back insulting the whole the whole thread.

Did I hurt the thread's feelings? Aww.. sorry.

Again, I don't get where you get the ego to keep trying to backseat moderate how and where I post. You do realize there is an ignore button, right?

This is all rich coming from you though. I don't think I've read an insightful or constructive thing you posted in this thread since day 1. I've seen hostility and name calling though.

 

[akimbo009]

Did I hurt the thread's feelings? Aww.. sorry.

Again, I don't get where you get the ego to keep trying to backseat moderate how and where I post. You do realize there is an ignore button, right?

This is all rich coming from you though. I don't think I've read an insightful or constructive thing you posted in this thread since day 1. I've seen hostility and name calling though.

Dunno - guess I'm just vapid, but I know things were going just fine until all y'all started rolling in "just asking questions".

 

[Lord Panda]

USA desperately needs to catch up in the hypersonic weapons race. US hypersonic strikes on Russia: zero. Russian hypersonic strikes on Russia: not zero.

If there’s some consolation, I think the US are leaders in direct energy weapons research. These bad boys are equipped with 50kW laser platforms

US Army to Begin Fielding Stryker-Mounted Lasers Next Month

The US Army has announced that it will start fielding its Stryker-mounted combat laser weapons next month.

www.thedefensepost.com

Lockheed Martin just deployed their HELIOS 60kW laser system on a warship as well:

Lockheed Martin Delivers Tactical HELIOS Laser Weapon to US Navy

Lockheed Martin has delivered a 60-kilowatt-class high-energy laser with an integrated optical-dazzler and surveillance to the US Navy.

www.thedefensepost.com

I’m still hoping that the US also continues with railgun research, because all these technologies would be a cheaper and effective layered defence system.

 

[Relique]

Dunno - guess I'm just vapid, but I know things were going just fine until all y'all started rolling in "just asking questions".

All I know is that the vibe here is too defensive and accusatory. Believe me I am not trying to be a dick or rile shit up. But as I look at Halo is Back's post above this must easily be the 10th time I've seen a vocal Ukrainian supporter be driven from the thread. I know many don't care but maybe some introspection is in order. Forgive me for being sympathetic to the people that got piled on but at least I wasn't trying to tell you what and where you can post.

 

[funkygunther]

3. Russia fully mobilizes. Russia employs competent military commanders.

This would be a national draft and a declaration of war on Ukraine, they don't want to do that.

 

[Lord Panda]

I could further elaborate my position by providing examples from other wars, but there would be no point in doing so. I want to make it clear that those scenarios were very hypothetical, but it is very clear Russia is losing the war. However, I will no longer be a part of this thread because I believe no nuanced discussions can happen.

Peace and glory to Ukraine.

Hey mate, I appreciate your input in this thread and urge you to stick around as well.

 

[Liljagare]

Zelenskyy on mass grave in Izium: We want the world to know​

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/09/15/7367678/

 

[akimbo009]

Ohhh warriors, come out and playyy..

U.S. to soon announce new $600 million arms package for Ukraine

The United States will soon announce a new $600 million arms package for Ukraine to help the Ukrainian military battle Russia, U.S. officials said on Thursday.

www.reuters.com

Maybe some ATACAMS will be in it. Blowing up dams may have been a red line.

 

[sinnergy]

The problem with Hypersonic is Wind Tunnels. U.S need to build much more. China seem to be building them every day!

On paper , just like Russia .. talking big , everyone can do that ..

 

[sinnergy]

Ohhh warriors, come out and playyy..

http://[URL]https://www.reuters.com...age-ukraine-2022-09-15/?utm_source=reddit.com

[/URL]

Maybe some ATACAMS will be in it. Blowing up dams may have been a red line.

Russia can draw all the red lines it wants, for us the west , a red line is crossed when you take sovereign countries.

 

[akimbo009]

Russia can draw all the red lines it wants, for us the west , a red line is crossed when you take sovereign countries.

Remember when Putin said something something Sept 15 victory... It's Sept 16.

 

[sinnergy]

Remember when Putin said something something Sept 15 victory... It's Sept 16.

Sure , And I also remembered when Russia thought they mattered

 

[akimbo009]

Sure , And I also remembered when Russia thought they mattered

And now it looks like China has... Concern....

Putin says Xi has questions and concerns over Ukraine

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday said he understood that Xi Jinping had questions and concerns about the situation in Ukraine but praised China's leader for what he said was a "balanced" position on the conflict.

www.reuters.com

 

[akimbo009]

Annnnnd they are going full crazy.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Annnnnd they are going full crazy.

They're going full stupid. Sending "20 million refugees to Europe" would be an act of war in itself. I wish nukes didn't exist, so we can go in there and clean it up, once and for all.

 

[Nobody_Important]

And now it looks like China has... Concern....

Putin says Xi has questions and concerns over Ukraine

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday said he understood that Xi Jinping had questions and concerns about the situation in Ukraine but praised China's leader for what he said was a "balanced" position on the conflict.

www.reuters.com

China right now

 

[Lord Panda]

Annnnnd they are going full crazy.

I wonder if they ever go home and wonder at the shit they are saying. Like I wonder if they ever reflect and think:

 

[Nobody_Important]

I wonder if they ever go home and wonder at the shit they are saying. Like I wonder if they ever reflect and think:

That would require independent thought.


Something in short supply over there these days.

 

[FunkMiller]

Admitting that news networks aren't entirely honest doesn't mean I support Russia? It's not whataboutism to say that. It's a realistic view. I didn't respond to you last time because you implied that I support Russia just because I wish networks put more effort in their pieces. I'm not entertaining that ridiculous take. You have a very "support your media or you're the enemy" way of handling this conversation.

My advice is to watch less TV, and instead keep an eye on official reporting coming out of the area from military sources. The British Ministry Of Defence are providing accurate and sensible updates on a daily basis. The Ukrainian government is also putting out regular updates. R/Ukraine has become quite a valuable source with stuff right from the horse’s mouth. There are many independent, recognised and valid military and defence experts on social media who provide intelligent analysis and updates.

The ‘you can’t trust the media’ excuse is just lazy, at this point. If you spend some time doing due diligence and finding the most reliable sources, you don’t need to go near a mainstream news outlet. Although I’ve personally found most reporting on the UK news channels to be decently accurate and measured.

And every single one of the kinds of sources I’ve pointed to here are all saying the same thing:

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is doomed. Utterly doomed.

So when we still get people coming into this thread with ‘concern’ posts and worrying about how Russia can ‘turn things around’ it sounds like they either don’t understand what’s going on, or are pro-Russian and sucking on the copium. There are no other valid reasons for having these opinions.

 

[FunkMiller]

Multiple sources posting this. Russian controlled government building in Kherson blown to shit. HIMARS strike. Targeting senior Russian military.



They must be fucking terrified of those things by now.

 

[Lukaku's First Touch]

If there’s some consolation, I think the US are leaders in direct energy weapons research. These bad boys are equipped with 50kW laser platforms

US Army to Begin Fielding Stryker-Mounted Lasers Next Month

The US Army has announced that it will start fielding its Stryker-mounted combat laser weapons next month.

www.thedefensepost.com

Lockheed Martin just deployed their HELIOS 60kW laser system on a warship as well:

Lockheed Martin Delivers Tactical HELIOS Laser Weapon to US Navy

Lockheed Martin has delivered a 60-kilowatt-class high-energy laser with an integrated optical-dazzler and surveillance to the US Navy.

www.thedefensepost.com

I’m still hoping that the US also continues with railgun research, because all these technologies would be a cheaper and effective layered defence system.

I'd love to see that railgun hitting a russian tank or battleship

 

[Ironbunny]

I wonder if they ever go home and wonder at the shit they are saying. Like I wonder if they ever reflect and think:

One of those pundits somewhat had it

 

[Nobody_Important]

One of those pundits somewhat had it

They better avoid windows and boats for the foreseeable future.

 

[winjer]

Another few weeks of defeats, and they will be at each other throats, blaming everyone for their loses.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Another few weeks of defeats, and they will be at each other throats, blaming everyone for their loses.

And hopefully only a few weeks after that we get to see if Putin can fly or not.

 

[winjer]

And hopefully only a few weeks after that we get to see if Putin can fly or not.

I'm not picky. He can fly, hang, drink special tea, play Russian roulette, etc...

 

[Tams]

My advice is to watch less TV, and instead keep an eye on official reporting coming out of the area from military sources. The British Ministry Of Defence are providing accurate and sensible updates on a daily basis. The Ukrainian government is also putting out regular updates. R/Ukraine has become quite a valuable source with stuff right from the horse’s mouth. There are many independent, recognised and valid military and defence experts on social media who provide intelligent analysis and updates.

The ‘you can’t trust the media’ excuse is just lazy, at this point. If you spend some time doing due diligence and finding the most reliable sources, you don’t need to go near a mainstream news outlet. Although I’ve personally found most reporting on the UK news channels to be decently accurate and measured.

And every single one of the kinds of sources I’ve pointed to here are all saying the same thing:

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is doomed. Utterly doomed.

So when we still get people coming into this thread with ‘concern’ posts and worrying about how Russia can ‘turn things around’ it sounds like they either don’t understand what’s going on, or are pro-Russian and sucking on the copium. There are no other valid reasons for having these opinions.

No, no, no! You don't understand! You can never trust the mainstreeeeeeam meeeeeedia! They do things like factcheck, and have people on the ground.

This whackpot I found on YouTube though? He speaks fire and the truth! Be sure to support his Patreon.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Guy could throw a football over dem mountains

 

[Kenpachii]

Annnnnd they are going full crazy.

Attack the EU, see how fast u get whiped lol..

 

[Wildebeest]

I don't think, as an outsider looking in, that it is healthy to follow the action on the ground from day to day, and try to become some sort of expert by doing that. Checking in every now and again and follow the big shifts and news stories is better in terms of getting a better impression of what is going on. Don't want to be one of those people who are so bogged down in minutiae of treaties that don't exist that they are willing to almost ignore the fact that Russia did an illegal invasion and are committing war crimes.

 

[Aurelius]

 

[Nobody_Important]

Imagine being a soldier in what you were raised to believe is one of the best armies in the world and that guy being your commander. I would defect at the first fucking chance.


Slava Ukraini motherfucker