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Russia begins Invasion of Ukraine

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T

TwinB242

Member
6502 said:
The aim is to strengthen Nato's defensive position, minimise / undo Ukraine territorial losses whilst avoiding WW3 / nuclear war.

As much as we want to punish Russia and its allies for this war, we don't want to drag European populations into another large war / create a radioactive hellscape. One reason being, we are not armed enough to fight on multiple fronts and still contain other threats.
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The unfortunate reality is that there is little chance Ukraine will regain a significant portion of its territory given the current state of the counteroffensive. This is why Zelensky is pushing hard for NATO membership, he hopes there is a slim chance that Article 5 would be invoked upon Ukraine joining and other European countries would become directly involved in the war, which is a risk Europe doesn't want to take. Duda himself just alluded to this

 
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A

acm2000

Member
TwinB242 said:
The unfortunate reality is that there is little chance Ukraine will regain a significant portion of its territory given the current state of the counteroffensive. This is why Zelensky is pushing hard for NATO membership, he hopes there is a slim chance that Article 5 would be invoked upon Ukraine joining and other European countries would become directly involved in the war, which is a risk Europe doesn't want to take. Duda himself just alluded to this

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pretty sure he said himself he knows it wont happen till after the war but he wants a timeline.
 
NoLootBoxDev

NoLootBoxDev

Member

Kremlin threatens with ''consequences'' after France's decision to provide long-range missiles to Ukraine​

pravda.com.ua/eng/ne...

the consequences:

Tantrum Crying GIF
 
Tams

Tams

Member
Chittagong said:
Sweden didn’t really have any national security reason to end its 200 years of neutrality.

- After Finland joined NATO, aside from a bit of international waters, Sweden is basically landlocked by Article 5 countries. I don’t think anyone actually thinks Russia would succeed in marching or sailing through or past a NATO country to attack another country
- The situation in Europe is certainly not anywhere near as threatening as WW1 and. WW2, where Sweden successfully stayed out of fighting and remained “neutral”. Russia’s army is decimated to such an extent that it will not consider another conquest in a decade.

So if security concerns are not why Sweden really joined, why did it? Probably because of political pressure and/or business reasons.

Political pressure would be USA and EU wanting Sweden in NATO, and creating pressure. Business reason wiould be a promise of selling a lot more of that sweet Sweeish military gear.
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They asked to join to show their commitment to their allies.

It would look really bad with just Finland joining and it looking like Sweden were taking a free ride.

Don't bother bringing Switzerland up. There is significant resentment against them.
 
S

sinnergy

Member
Please have gratitude for western weapons Ukraine, be happy, don’t worry 🤣 what a load of crap .. what is the alternative ? Russia steamrolls Ukraine and walks right into Poland ? While Ukrainians are dying ..

And all those slow ass Weapon deliveries from mostly the EU are hilarious, only the USA is really stepping up . But I guess they like it when Hitler 2 just takes even more land . They should have delivered everything they could already .
 
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Liljagare

Liljagare

Member
Ukrainian pilots and groundcrew will be starting testing/training with the JAS 39 Gripen within a month or two. The official statement is that they will test to see if it will fit their needs.

Only source so far is in Swedish, it was apparently a agreement finished during the Vilnius meetings, a agreement will give Ukraine first access to Swedish weapon systems, and Sweden will become a more integral part of NATO once it is in, delivering weapons and new systems.

www.aftonbladet.se

Nya avtalet: Då kan Ukraina flyga Gripen

VILNIUS. Redan efter sommaren kan ukrainska piloter börja flyga Jas 39 Gripen. Det säger försvarsminister Pål Jonson till Aftonbladet under toppmötet i Vilnius, där han även fått insyn i Natos nya krigsplaner. – Där blir också den svenska rollen allt mer central, säger han.
www.aftonbladet.se www.aftonbladet.se

Gripen E: https://www.saab.com/products/gripen-e-series

BAE systems and SAAB will probably become large contributors within NATO, although, they already are.
 
M

Madserb2023

Member
It is not possible to give a timeline for Nato membership because no one knows when the war will end. If we go by the current pace of the offensive it will take a about 54 years to expel Russia out of Ukraine. It could end tomorrow or in 10 years from now. You can see with my previous posts that I am a big supporter of Ukraine but there is an added complication of propaganda and the withholding of information. All estimates are based on what we are being told, largely by the Ukrainians and we don't know if any of it is true. This is just a universal problem with war. Misinformation is a legitimate weapon of war like any other. The counter offensive could be even less effective than even what we are told and the US and others are likely spying on the Ukrainians, as to why they won't give a timeline.
 
nemiroff

nemiroff

Gold Member
Madserb2023 said:
It is not possible to give a timeline for Nato membership because no one knows when the war will end. If we go by the current pace of the offensive it will take a about 54 years to expel Russia out of Ukraine. It could end tomorrow or in 10 years from now. You can see with my previous posts that I am a big supporter of Ukraine but there is an added complication of propaganda and the withholding of information. All estimates are based on what we are being told, largely by the Ukrainians and we don't know if any of it is true. This is just a universal problem with war. Misinformation is a legitimate weapon of war like any other. The counter offensive could be even less effective than even what we are told and the US and others are likely spying on the Ukrainians, as to why they won't give a timeline.
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Stop saying that you’re a "big supporter of Ukraine". We're not stupid, you are clearly using it as a PH neutralizer.
 
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M

Madserb2023

Member
nemiroff said:
Stop saying that you’re a "big supporter of Ukraine". We're not stupid, you are clearly using it as a PH neutralizer.
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I knew this would be the response. Nobody applies this logic to anything else and that's the problem with the current situation. I support my local football team but if the manager does something I don't think is the right, I will say it. You can support something without being like a zombie and just mindlessly accept everthing. I don't think trying to retake Bahkmut is a good idea now that Russia is on the defence. I think it's just throwing lives away. Have seen some of the most pro Ukrainian channels say this. Doesn't mean they don't now support Ukraine. My point is a legitimate one if my country was at war, I would be sceptical of information from my government, not because I secretly want to commit treason but because historically they haven't been entirely accurate. I feel like people have forgotten the reality of way.
 
nemiroff

nemiroff

Gold Member
Madserb2023 said:
I knew this would be the response. Nobody applies this logic to anything else and that's the problem with the current situation. I support my local football team but if the manager does something I don't think is the right, I will say it. You can support something without being like a zombie and just mindlessly accept everthing. I don't think trying to retake Bahkmut is a good idea now that Russia is on the defence. I think it's just throwing lives away. Have seen some of the most pro Ukrainian channels say this. Doesn't mean they don't now support Ukraine. My point is a legitimate one if my country was at war, I would be sceptical of information from my government, not because I secretly want to commit treason but because historically they haven't been entirely accurate. I feel like people have forgotten the reality of way.
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Bla bla bla bla..

Liljagare said:
euromaidanpress.com

Frontline report: Ukrainian HIMARS strikes hit Russian artillery as Russia fires southern front's general - Euromaidan Press

Day 504: 12 July Today the biggest news comes from the south. Here, Ukrainian forces continue exploiting Russian…
euromaidanpress.com euromaidanpress.com
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Yeah, I've noticed that they started using HIMARS on artillery more recently. Diversifying tacticts. Hopefully that means they have enough missiles to be able to test different strategies.

Liljagare said:
Ukrainian pilots and groundcrew will be starting testing/training with the JAS 39 Gripen within a month or two. The official statement is that they will test to see if it will fit their needs.

Only source so far is in Swedish, it was apparently a agreement finished during the Vilnius meetings, a agreement will give Ukraine first access to Swedish weapon systems, and Sweden will become a more integral part of NATO once it is in, delivering weapons and new systems.

www.aftonbladet.se

Nya avtalet: Då kan Ukraina flyga Gripen

VILNIUS. Redan efter sommaren kan ukrainska piloter börja flyga Jas 39 Gripen. Det säger försvarsminister Pål Jonson till Aftonbladet under toppmötet i Vilnius, där han även fått insyn i Natos nya krigsplaner. – Där blir också den svenska rollen allt mer central, säger han.
www.aftonbladet.se www.aftonbladet.se

Gripen E: https://www.saab.com/products/gripen-e-series

BAE systems and SAAB will probably become large contributors within NATO, although, they already are.
Click to expand...

That's really interesting. The JAS would likely be an even better tool for Ukraine than the F-16. But it's probably a post-war thingy, IDK.
 
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FatallyYours

FatallyYours

Member
Madserb2023 said:
You can see with my previous posts that I am a big supporter of Ukraine but there is an added complication of propaganda and the withholding of information. All estimates are based on what we are being told, largely by the Ukrainians and we don't know if any of it is true. This is just a universal problem with war. Misinformation is a legitimate weapon of war like any other. The counter offensive could be even less effective than even what we are told and the US and others are likely spying on the Ukrainians, as to why they won't give a timeline.
Click to expand...
If you only get your news from the state run organisations then you're being lied too... like the Russians, with no free press or access to it. It's 1984, believe only what you are told that day, no matter what you heard to the contrary a week ago

But if you've been here for a while, you must know that it's not just state run Ukrainian news that's being posted. There are literally hundreds, if not tens of thousands of Ukrainians/Europeans/independent news people inside of Ukraine, either attached to the military or first hand accounts that are posting stuff

Every random person on twitter, telegram, reddit, every independent news person, respected news orgs reporting from the front line, any person with a phone can send a message from anywhere in Ukraine and report the news. If things were that bad in Ukraine, they'd shut of access to the Internet so that these people couldn't pass on terrible losses to the world
 
Liljagare

Liljagare

Member
The Ruzzians publish a video in which mobilized from the occupied Luhansk take into service: Simonov self-loading carbine (1949), Degtyarev light machine gun (1945), Sudayev submachine gun (1943), Shpagin submachine gun (1940) , the Tokarev self-loading rifle (1939), the Lend-Lease Thompson submachine gun (version 1938), and of course the Mosin rifle with a needle bayonet (model 1891).
Click to expand...


They are sorely lacking modern equipment now.

8McAw32.jpg

HdqKkQE.jpg



Next up is RuSSias new super new invention!!! Ukraine WILL fall now! /S



G5OU1ji.jpg


Also, payback is a bitch, isnt it?

Good luck surviving this RuSSians:



Archer can deliver 8 a minute.
 
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rofif

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
Liljagare said:
Click to expand...

This is sad af.... man....
No eyes, no arms, no hearing. Keeping this guy alive is torture in my opinion.
He earned his death on the battlefield. This is the worst outcome. Why should he suffer due to bad luck (not dying).
I don't want to sound cruel but nothing awaits a person like this. Only more undeserved pain.
Medicine is not there yet for people like that. But maybe in a few years lets hope.
 
Patrick S.

Patrick S.

Banned
rofif said:
This is sad af.... man....
No eyes, no arms, no hearing. Keeping this guy alive is torture in my opinion.
He earned his death on the battlefield. This is the worst outcome. Why should he suffer due to bad luck (not dying).
I don't want to sound cruel but nothing awaits a person like this. Only more undeserved pain.
Medicine is not there yet for people like that. But maybe in a few years lets hope.
Click to expand...
Yeah. I can't even begin to imagine having to live like that. I'd want to be killed if I was in that state. Put a pillow over my face or shoot me, don't care.
 
Liljagare

Liljagare

Member

War criminal Igor #Girkin is again very pessimistic. Yesterday he suggested that the possible breakup through the front lines by the Ukrainian army could cause a collapse in the whole Russian Federation due to contradictions in the army and Putin's inability to make decisions.
Click to expand...
(video with English subtitles)
 
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