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[Liljagare]

So you made up your mind on my first post but when I genuinely reached out for a good faith discussion you could only pass a snide comment? How big and open-minded of you

There was a attempt at a good faith discussion?? Where did you post that?

Wasn't in this thread.

 

[Bry0]

So you made up your mind on my first post but when I genuinely reached out for a good faith discussion you could only pass a snide comment? How big and open-minded of you

You are getting roasted because you sound like some “well aktually” rus IRA bot. You can’t tell who’s winning until the dust settles? Really? Did the “superpower” failing to invade their neighbor in spectacular fashion not make it clear Russia is a crumbling husk of mafia state corruption?

 

[Braag]

This is basically kittoo's argument.

 

[THE DUCK]

I bet Putin would withdraw if given some sort of way to save face. But I have no idea what that would look like. Trying to picture a world leader going to see him and trying to convince him to simply withdraw and end the war in a matter of days/weeks, but what's the carrot besides the obvious things like money and human lives that don't seem to matter to putin?

 

[sinnergy]

I bet Putin would withdraw if given some sort of way to save face. But I have no idea what that would look like. Trying to picture a world leader going to see him and trying to convince him to simply withdraw and end the war in a matter of days/weeks, but what's the carrot besides the obvious things like money and human lives that don't seem to matter to putin?

The dude is going to mobilize 500k troops .. the west is to slow with military support .. this will go on for years now .. the K.O window is closed now.

 

[Chittagong]

Could I interest you in an experienced PMC leader currently available for new opportunities, his name is… uh… ’Jeffrey Preston’’:

 

[Lukaku's First Touch]

He looks like a sasha baron cohen character.

 

[Artoris]

Could I interest you in an experienced PMC leader currently available for new opportunities, his namei is… uh… ’Jeffrey Preston’’:

Are these the guys you see before you fly out a window

 

[funkygunther]

Could I interest you in an experienced PMC leader currently available for new opportunities, his namei is… uh… ’Jeffrey Preston’’:

 

[Madserb2023]

The whole argument here on whether Russia is the bad guy is very simply resolved with the answer yes. You can make an argument about the rational of their invasion but you can do the same for World War 2. The Treaty of Versailles was wrong. It was the French that pushed it but the Britsh didn't want it because they thought it would be used as a pretext for another war and guess what. Ironically no such treaty occurred after the Napoleonic war for that reason. However, killing 6 million Jews and 10s of millions of Eastern Europeans was a little bit disproportionate...no. it's the same here. Should Nato have expanded..maybe not. Should Ukraine have bombed the separatists in the Donbass. No. Wasn't right when the Serbs did it in Kosov and not right here. UN peacekeepers should have been involved. England isn't going to bomb Scotland. However, invading a sovereign country and trying to basically cleanse the Ukrainian people is not quite on the same level. You do this for every war. Just because there a rational doesn't make it right.

 

[Oberstein]

Could I interest you in an experienced PMC leader currently available for new opportunities, his namei is… uh… ’Jeffrey Preston’’:

 

[Facism]

Could I interest you in an experienced PMC leader currently available for new opportunities, his namei is… uh… ’Jeffrey Preston’’:

2nd pic is Mark Cerny

 

[Liljagare]

Sitrep for Jul. 4-5, 2023:

– Ukraine has started using JDAMs; – A Russian Iskander missile strike injures 43 people in the Kharkiv region; – Putin suggests tourists travel to Crimea via the “land bridge”, which is under AFU fire control; – Prigozhin gets his 10 billion rubles ($110M) back."

https://notes.citeam.org/dispatch-jul-4-5

 

[BlackTron]

The non-west world (majority of the world population) doesn't see it as black and white. I know you disagree, and that's fine. All I am trying to say is that it shouldn't be mind-boggling when you meet someone who doesn't go 'evil Russia' all the time. It's a reasonably big population.

The Ukraine-Russia war looks very different outside the West

The West appears blind to its own hypocrisy and narrow interests in calling for a rules-based order.

www.msnbc.com

How non-Western countries see the war in Ukraine compared to the West

A survey by the European Council on Foreign Relations reveals two conflicting visions of the war and the world order, between the Western and the non-Western world.

www.lemonde.fr

Just wondering, did you even read the articles that you posted? Here is something from the BEGINNING.

In conversations with diplomats and analysts from across Africa, Asia, the Middle East and Latin America, it was evident to me that these countries largely sympathize with the plight of the Ukrainian people and view Russia as the aggressor.

The article talks about why, despite this fact, they don't want to rally behind us with support and money anyway. In Africa people have a low opinion of the United States because of what we did in Libya, so they don't want to work with us. It has nothing to do with their opinion of the Russian-Ukrainian war. They feel bad for Ukraine.

The second article has statistics like people in China seeing Russia as a "necessary partner for strategic reasons". With how many people there are in China I guess you have made a big point. That's a huge percentage of the world's population with a government that puts its own people in concentration camps who don't even agree with Russia, just a "necessary partner for strategy reasons". This is the best you have?

Embarrassing and nobody wants to waste their time on this crap.

Edit: Also, big surprise that countries with governments that take issue with freedom and human rights are more inclined to help Russia damage the West. It's almost as if there is some sort of pattern or sense to all of it that one could discern if they thought for a moment.

 

[Tams]

 

[6502]

He looks like a sasha baron cohen character.

Either Dictator 2 confirmed or pringles is really Roger the Alien.

 

[Slicker than your average]

Par for the course in the thread that everyone believes for sure it is Russia which will blow a nuclear plant they control and have no real reasons to blow. Just like they blew nord stream and the dam, right? Even though it's Ukraine which is going in overdrive and shouting from the rooftops, almost as if wanting to make it fait accompli. It clearly helps Ukraine because that finally may get NATO involved properly and they will get many more weapons.

Look, I get it that it's a western audience dominated forum so Russia is the villain. That's fine, everybody has biases and take sides. But this is a nuclear disaster we are talking about and we must be clear that it can never happen. Blaming Russia without doubt even before it has happened emboldens covert actions.

And no, Russia didn't blow Nord stream, no matter what the propaganda says. It was the US/UK. Ukraine doesn't have the wherewithal.

Legit wondering why every two weeks one of these rustard clowns pops up saying the same thing.
Why is it every 2 weeks. Where were these clowns last year or throughout the thread .

 

[sinnergy]

Ukraine's big weapons donors not meeting commitments, think tank says​

CNN

Yup .. but it’s all politics, Ukraine gets back what they can, than negotiations, Russia keeps annexed ground, problem solved for now .. full scale invasion in 2027 what I thought when this all started . Nice window dressing

 

[Azurro]

"Genius! My undercover operation should go smoothly. Now, I shall go by Y Prigozhin. ...No, that is too obvious, I shall go by Yevgeny P."

 

[MisterFalcon]

Some of these Prig pics look like Fred Armisen.

"You stage coup, march on Moscow? Not to jail."

 

[Liljagare]

Frontline update: Russians try attacking Ukrainian bridgehead in Kherson, get demolished - Euromaidan Press

Russians tried to assault a Ukrainian bridgehead near the Antonivskyi bridge on the left bank of Kherson, but ended up in an artillery firestorm, losing 23 fighting vehicles and armored cars, along with boats and drones.

euromaidanpress.com

MAKS 24 👀🇺🇦 (@MAKS23@mastodon.social)

Attached: 1 image Fantastic news is here 🥰🥰🥰 "The Armed Forces of Ukraine have partial success and are entrenched in the Klishchiivka area in the direction of Bakhmut, where heavy fighting continues" - General Staff

mastodon.social

 

[Lasha]

Either Dictator 2 confirmed or pringles is really Roger the Alien.

You make a convincing argument.

 

[F0rneus]

Par for the course in the thread that everyone believes for sure it is Russia which will blow a nuclear plant they control and have no real reasons to blow. Just like they blew nord stream and the dam, right? Even though it's Ukraine which is going in overdrive and shouting from the rooftops, almost as if wanting to make it fait accompli. It clearly helps Ukraine because that finally may get NATO involved properly and they will get many more weapons.

Look, I get it that it's a western audience dominated forum so Russia is the villain. That's fine, everybody has biases and take sides. But this is a nuclear disaster we are talking about and we must be clear that it can never happen. Blaming Russia without doubt even before it has happened emboldens covert actions.

And no, Russia didn't blow Nord stream, no matter what the propaganda says. It was the US/UK. Ukraine doesn't have the wherewithal.

 

[Liljagare]

Counteroffensive with Army of Drones: 600+ UAVs are on the way to the frontline. 423 Matrice, 150 Mavics, as well as Ukrainian-made Kazhans & Leleka reconnaissance complexes.

https://mstdn.social/@Landcombatmissiles/110673074330376872

 

[BlackTron]

Counteroffensive with Army of Drones: 600+ UAVs are on the way to the frontline. 423 Matrice, 150 Mavics, as well as Ukrainian-made Kazhans & Leleka reconnaissance complexes.

https://mstdn.social/@Landcombatmissiles/110673074330376872

 

[Liljagare]

OrkZZ being OrkZZ:

MAKS 24 👀🇺🇦 (@MAKS23@mastodon.social)

Attached: 1 video Russia actively uses chemical weapons ❗ Bakhmut direction: ▪️ 5 "Grad" shells between positions, among which there are shells with chemical poison. ▪️ While the poison is creeping through the trenches, they work chaotically with mortars and cannons so that we don't get out...

mastodon.social

More for the tribunals.

 

[Gp1]

 

[Liljagare]

 

[Rat Rage]

Hope this is true. Cluster munition is nasty. And before some people cry "internationally prohibited munition/weaponry" - who cares? Ukraine is fighting for their lives, so they should use every weapon possible to defend themselves. IMHO they should also use chemical weapons, too.

 

[Futaleufu]

Hope this is true. Cluster munition is nasty. And before some people cry "internationally prohibited munition/weaponry" - who cares? Ukraine is fighting for their lives, so they should use every weapon possible to defend themselves. IMHO they should also use chemical weapons, too.

People who live in those areas should care. Many clusters remain active and end up killing civilians after the conflict is over. It's like droping mines without the mapping nor the responsability.

Both countries have already used them, I feel no sympathy for either of them.

 

[Darius87]

People who live in those areas should care. Many clusters remain active and end up killing civilians after the conflict is over. It's like droping mines without the mapping nor the responsability.

Both countries have already used them, I feel no sympathy for either of them.

frontline is mined already so demining would be needed anyways, i don't think ua will drop these cluster munition on towns/villages, so don't worry civilians want these munitions more then you.

 

[Lasha]

People who live in those areas should care. Many clusters remain active and end up killing civilians after the conflict is over. It's like droping mines without the mapping nor the responsability.

Both countries have already used them, I feel no sympathy for either of them.

The cost of clearing all of the mines and munitions from the occupied territories is already astronomical. Ukraine shooting some extra cluster rounds isn't going to meaningfully change the situation. Clearing Russia out so that rebuilding can begin is more important.

 

[GymWolf]

Hope this is true. Cluster munition is nasty. And before some people cry "internationally prohibited munition/weaponry" - who cares? Ukraine is fighting for their lives, so they should use every weapon possible to defend themselves. IMHO they should also use chemical weapons, too.

Do they work like the cluster ammo in monster hunter?

 

[Liljagare]

MAKS 24 👀🇺🇦 (@MAKS23@mastodon.social)

Defense Minister Reznikov explained how Ukraine will use US cluster munitions: ▪️ munition will not be used on the territory of the Russian Federation - only for the de-occupation of Ukrainian territories; ▪️ ammunition will be used only in places where the Russian military gathers...

mastodon.social

 

[Spaceman292]

The cost of clearing all of the mines and munitions from the occupied territories is already astronomical. Ukraine shooting some extra cluster rounds isn't going to meaningfully change the situation. Clearing Russia out so that rebuilding can begin is more important.

When any one unexploded bomb or bomblet has the potential to kill some random civilian, then 'some extra cluster rounds' will absolutely make a big difference. It's life or death.

 

[Lasha]

When any one unexploded bomb or bomblet has the potential to kill some random civilian, then 'some extra cluster rounds' will absolutely make a big difference. It's life or death.

Does your random civilian touch that one bomblet before or after crossing the wasteland of minefields and unexploded Russian cluster munitions? The land already requires decades of effort and billions of dollars to remove the ordinance already placed. The incremental difference of using more cluster munitions(UA already uses their own) to Ukraine is negligible.

 

[Spaceman292]

Does your random civilian touch that one bomblet before or after crossing the wasteland of minefields and unexploded Russian cluster munitions? The land already requires decades of effort and billions of dollars to remove the ordinance already placed. The incremental difference of using more cluster munitions(UA already uses their own) to Ukraine is negligible.

These things are landing in kids playgrounds and stuff

 

[Lasha]

These things are landing in kids playgrounds and stuff

Those playgrounds aren't ever being used again. The entire region will not be habitable until well after the area has been demined and the damaged infrastructure rebuilt. Maybe the solution is to ask Russia to stop shelling and mining civilian cities instead of feigning concern over Ukraine using rounds to clear trenches?

 

[BlackTron]

These things are landing in kids playgrounds and stuff

Yeah, I'm more worried about the Russian bombs being dropped on kids heads and the hundreds of thousands of kids being abducted by Russia than adding a few more liabilities to clear out of an area that Russia has already mined to death and already needs to be completely scoured and rebuilt from the ground up before a single kid ever sets foot anywhere near it again.

 

[6502]

These things are landing in kids playgrounds and stuff

If these are used on the battlefields I am ok with it. Clearing mines and orcs from their trenches could cut down the time innocent civilians are subject to missiles and shelling by years.

 

[MrA]

Hope this is true. Cluster munition is nasty. And before some people cry "internationally prohibited munition/weaponry" - who cares? Ukraine is fighting for their lives, so they should use every weapon possible to defend themselves. IMHO they should also use chemical weapons, too.

Chemical weapons have problems like poisoning water tables, I've said it before but the Ukrainians should use flamethrower tanks, because they're amazingly effective at terrifying the enemy.
During ww2 the German army wasn't as a whole afraid of much of anything using conventional weapons(well besides bazooka Charlie and some Fins, but those were both grade A psychological warfare) but the British crocodile was incredibly effective at causing surrender , basically abman might not be afraid of being shot or bombed will generally still be terrified of being lit on fire

 

[winjer]

Chemical weapons have problems like poisoning water tables, I've said it before but the Ukrainians should use flamethrower tanks, because they're amazingly effective at terrifying the enemy.
During ww2 the German army wasn't as a whole afraid of much of anything using conventional weapons(well besides bazooka Charlie and some Fins, but those were both grade A psychological warfare) but the British crocodile was incredibly effective at causing surrender , basically abman might not be afraid of being shot or bombed will generally still be terrified of being lit on fire

Just to complement your take on the flamethrower.
Many times, the crew on tanks with a flamethrower, would not ignite the fuel. They would just go up to a bunker, spray a bunch of fuel on the Germans and wait for them to surrender.
Just the fear of burning alive made everyone surrender instantly. And of course, if someone is dosed in gasoline, they are very unlikely to shoot their guns and spark a fire.
On the other hand, on every side, anytime the crew of a flamethrower was caught, they were treated miserably. Everyone considered the flamethrower to be a particularly inhumane weapon, so they took revenge on these crews.
Also, a lot of people refused to use a flamethrower for moral reasons.
It might be strange that in a war with so much death and injury, that people would have such hatred for the flamethrower. But being burnt alive is one of the worst deaths. It is also a very grim way to kill another human.

About chemical weapons, their effect is even worse. To this day there are still huge regions in France where it is forbidden to dig or cultivate the ground, on the grounds where chemical weapons where used during WW1.
Even after a century the soil is still contaminated and no one wants to risk it. And it will probably remain so for another century.
During WW2 both sides had huge stocks of chemical weapons, but fortunately cooler heads prevailed and no one used them in battle. But all sides were ready to use them, if the other side used. It was a bit of a cold war effect, before the col war and nuclear weapons.
Unfortunately, they were used in the gas chambers during the holocaust.

I really hope Russia doesn't use chemical weapons o Ukraine, as this would mean a harsh cost for future generations.

 

[BlackTron]

I really hope Russia doesn't use chemical weapons o Ukraine, as this would mean a harsh cost for future generations.

Ukraine is fighting for their lives, so they should use every weapon possible to defend themselves. IMHO they should also use chemical weapons, too.

Yeah, who cares about the cluster bombs in this scenario, but there's pretty much no excuse to go there with chemical weapons no matter what, even if Russia were to deploy them. Actually, I think it came out that they already started doing so, but that's still no excuse to stoop to their level. Use asymmetric escalation instead. I like the idea of the flamethrower tanks. Insane and psychological, but orders of magnitude better than chemicals.

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

 

[FunkMiller]

So give them cluster bombs, but not ATACMS.

Idiocy.

 

[GunganKing]

There was a attempt at a good faith discussion?? Where did you post that?

Wasn't in this thread.

You are getting roasted because you sound like some “well aktually” rus IRA bot. You can’t tell who’s winning until the dust settles? Really? Did the “superpower” failing to invade their neighbor in spectacular fashion not make it clear Russia is a crumbling husk of mafia state corruption?

This is basically kittoo's argument.

Western propaganda is stronk with you guys.
But ofcourse, western & white privilege means you guys think you are the highest source of objectivity, even when you guys have a skin in the game.

 

[GunganKing]

obviously the best way to combat what you think is propaganda bullshit is to just make up your own

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/

 

[Slicker than your average]

Western propaganda is stronk with you guys.
But ofcourse, western & white privilege means you guys think you are the highest source of objectivity, even when you guys have a skin in the game.

Hahah give you an hour before you're banned.

 

[GunganKing]

how braindead you have to be? to think that ua government likes to kill it's own people and it's army disrupting it's own counteroffensive and cause nuclear catastrophy in it's own country this is worst what ukraine can do it to itself.

There is nothing braindead about this, since this has literally happened many times in human history before, especially when it comes to sham democracies like Ukraine.

The simple axiom to follow here, is the one Cicero stated 2000 years ago: Que Bono ? - who benefits.
Rest, is all fog of war propaganda - western or russian, matters not.