Support NeoGAF

[Liljagare]

Another false flag in the news, a destroyed BTRs being posted in Russian media, magically reported as a destroyed BMP2-S. I guess Putin didn't get that there are armoured vehicles lovers in the world.

@Putin, you might do better if you actually blow up the enemies vehicles.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Not really related but a fellow gamer at Ukraine opinion on the situration.

She's one of the few streamers I follow since she's put out some quality ff material. Hopefully she gets out okay.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

If we hadn’t dropped the two atomic weapons, Japan would never have surrendered, leading to a very bloody ground war that would have claimed far, FAR more lives than the 200 thousand killed by the bombs - including many more innocent Japanese lives.

The atom bomb saved lives in that circumstance, and arguably, nuclear bombs have also saved millions of lives ever since, because they have prevented large scale warfare between large nation states.

Yes, vaporising thousands with atomic weapons was barbaric. But it was necessary. There was no better choice. It was the best option to stop millions dying. It was the right decision. The humanitarian decision.

Haha wait..wait you still believe this propaganda? You should really go read up on the history of WWII. There were multiple ways the war would've ended without America slaughtering 100,000+ civilians of both cities. Whether it was the USSR front advancing on Japan or the fact that Japan was planning on surrendering regardless of atomic weapon threats and Truman's advisors and Truman himself knew this.

Wild that this idea still permeates society.

 

[Liljagare]

Russia releases video of 'destroyed Ukrainian vehicles'

Moscow has published a video of two Ukrainian armored vehicles destroyed during an alleged incursion into Russian territory

www.rt.com

Uh, Putin, you just might want to check those models again.

Pretty damn idiotic to use something you never sold, nor stored in the Ukraine.

Is this really the level of intelligence of Putin? It's obvious what model is burning here.


This would be like, putting a Sherman on Picadilly Circus, in London, put it on fire, and claim that it is a german King Tiger.

 

[nocsi]

Haha wait..wait you still believe this propaganda? You should really go read up on the history of WWII. There were multiple ways the war would've ended without America slaughtering 100,000+ civilians of both cities. Whether it was the USSR front advancing on Japan or the fact that Japan was planning on surrendering regardless of atomic weapon threats and Truman's advisors and Truman himself knew this.

Wild that this idea still permeates society.

The US killed more firebombing Tokyo than it did with the atom bomb lol

 

[Ionian]

Not really related but a fellow gamer at Ukraine opinion on the situration.

Tried to watch that, gave up.

- cat ears, upper lilt in voice like a kardashian.
- wants to move out (a grift).
- Doesn't seem that worried at all but her pay pigs will donate.

Yeah she's totally scared. Can't believe people would donate to such an obvious grift.

I really need to get into this, seems very profitable. Just look bored and have a twitch account. I can do that. I'll get a sponser and live the dream. (the shills who push nonsense must be falling over themselves to get products out ala Alex Jones).

 

[asustitan]

Damn the western world has been brainwashed.

Russia is going to secure them two separatist regions only.
Russia will not have Ukraine in NATO at all costs - The West need to understand this, the same way U.S won't have Russia playing on Cuba.

The stupidity of the west knows no bounds, just flat out say we are not looking for Ukraine to join NATO. Its that simple.
The west and the EU instead pushing right up to Russia's border.

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

So shit is more than likely gonna get real in the next few hours? Absolutely insane something like this is happening in 2022 but in a odd way I find myself not being totally surprised.

 

[Umbasaborne]

Im honestly fucking terrified this is gonna lead to nuclear war

 

[Liljagare]

Another false flag tonight.

Two BPM-80's destroyed.

They show pictures of two BMP-2's?

 

[M1chl]

What a fucking nightmare dude, I was pretty silent as of now, because this whole situation angers me greatly. So I don't want to get overboard with this.

Fuck Putin, fuck that little manlet fuck, tho

 

[akimbo009]

Understanding why something happens and the motivations behind it has nothing to do with being apologetic.

You're the one attacking anybody who tries to bring some understanding to this situation because in your small-minded view you cannot tolerate anything else than people joining your Two Minutes Hate.



If this is all you can muster, then maybe stay away from this thread.



I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that you're above decent sources. I guess your blind self-righteous hatred is sufficient enough to cope with the tragedy that is going down. At the very least you could try to understand what you hate.
Relying on good information matters, especially when serious stuff goes down.

Your ignorant attitude is what is truly insulting to all the poor souls involved in this conflict.



Of f*ck right off you dimwitted fool, your sophistic appeal to emotion is nothing but a manipulative rhetoric to keep people from discussing the origins of this conflict. The only disgusting behavior is you maliciously equating political analysis with defending the killing of civilians. People like you are the reason why political discussions turn into these sh*tshows.

Are you ranting in the same way about political analysts for trying to make sense of this situation?

Because in doing so, you're making it actually harder for people involved in this discussion to understand what is going on and most importantly why. If simplistic "war bad" comments is all you can stomach, maybe go look for some cozy information bubble on twitter or something. There are better places to indulge in your moral seething.



Unlike you, I've actually been to these places and know people there. You're the one who is seriously lacking in perspective!
Now I'm trying to remain civil. I strongly suggest you do the same and if you're unable to do so, feel free to ignore my comments!

I actually do have a sense what's happening, and do understand the motivation.

Your rant aside, along with your assumption of where I have travelled or haven't, I think attempting to position the current events as a lack of historical understanding or perspective of Putin's popularity horribly misplaced. It would be a fine conversation weeks ago, but it's simply irrelevant in the face of what's occurring. If the discussion was an attempt to help get a better grasp of why this is happening as is, that's fine, except current events have outstripped that discussion. But really doesn't matter anymore because for whatever the reason Russia will attack Ukrainians.

And yes, war is bad and full of false justification - similar to your "understand how important Kyiv" comment is. False justification.

 

[Liljagare]

I guess people just don't see the false ops.

 

[strange headache]

But really doesn't matter anymore because for whatever the reason Russia will attack Ukrainians.

Do twenty video-game forum pages of "war is bad" and "Putin sucks" matter in that regard?
I don't think we need any more of stating the obvious, there's been plenty of that already.

I'd rather use this thread for something constructive and try to understand what is going on and the reasons why it is happening.

And yes, war is bad and full of false justification - similar to your "understand how important Kyiv" comment is. False justification.

Well obviously from our perspective nothing can justify Ukraine's invasion. From the perspective of the invader and his supporters however, things are much different. Conflict is always a clash of interests and perspectives. If we seek to avoid it in the future or deescalate the situation, we need to understand the other side's reasoning too.

If it appeases your mind rest assured that I do not condone the invasion, nor do I seek to support Putin in this regard. I already have stated as such in my first comment, and I hope I don't have to keep repeating it in the future. I'd like to waste my time on other things than repeating myself.

 

[MightySquirrel]

This whole situation is horrible, I've been watching Steve Lookner's coverage on YouTube and I have to be honest... things seem bleak and I'm getting scared.
It also doesn't help that I have just watched the movie Threads less then a week ago.

Thanks for this. Great coverage.

 

[JayK47]

This whole situation reminds me of this scene from Men in Black. There is money to be made here as long as it doesn't go nuclear, so I am not too worried about it going nuclear.

 

[Mossybrew]

Im honestly fucking terrified this is gonna lead to nuclear war

Settle down, take a break from the news. In a month I'm sure there will be some new crisis the media can hype up and you can get TERRIFIED of something new.

 

[Kraz]

Damn the western world has been brainwashed.

Russia is going to secure them two separatist regions only.
Russia will not have Ukraine in NATO at all costs - The West need to understand this, the same way U.S won't have Russia playing on Cuba.

The stupidity of the west knows no bounds, just flat out say we are not looking for Ukraine to join NATO. Its that simple.
The west and the EU instead pushing right up to Russia's border.

That demand of the Ukrainians seems to be just pretense. They are free to determine their own alliances and others are free to accept or reject on their own terms.

NATO is a military defense pact, not offense. If a NATO nation attacks someone it's on them. Perhaps witnessing the health of a NATO nation so close as to be observed within driving distance of Moscow is more of an ideological threat.

 

[Ionian]

This whole situation reminds me of this scene from Men in Black. There is money to be made here as long as it doesn't go nuclear, so I am not too worried about it going nuclear.

Haha, it's basically this;


*removed was a massive URL. Was Frank Drebin from the Naked Gun. Saying everything was ok with everything exploding around him, wouldn't imbed for some reason.

 

[BigBooper]

Damn the western world has been brainwashed.

Russia is going to secure them two separatist regions only.
Russia will not have Ukraine in NATO at all costs - The West need to understand this, the same way U.S won't have Russia playing on Cuba.

The stupidity of the west knows no bounds, just flat out say we are not looking for Ukraine to join NATO. Its that simple.
The west and the EU instead pushing right up to Russia's border.

It's a mistake to think that government or world leadership has the same aversion to war as you do.

Spoiler: After all...

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

The US killed more firebombing Tokyo than it did with the atom bomb lol

Not sure how that refutes anything I said but...ok

 

[MightySquirrel]

Apparently 2-3 hours till full scale invasion. 44 million people in Ukraine. I might sound like a puss but I would be leaving Ukraine by any means right about now, if I'm not a soldier there.

 

[Hari Seldon]

That demand of the Ukrainians seems to be just pretense. They are free to determine their own alliances and others are free to accept or reject on their own terms.

NATO is a military defense pact, not offense. If a NATO nation attacks someone it's on them. Perhaps witnessing the health of a NATO nation so close as to be observed within driving distance of Moscow is more of an ideological threat.

We should be booting people out of NATO not adding more. Especially Germany. If you can barely muster 5k helmets then no one should be defending your ass.

 

[Ionian]

What a fucking nightmare dude, I was pretty silent as of now, because this whole situation angers me greatly. So I don't want to get overboard with this.

Fuck Putin, fuck that little manlet fuck, tho

I know you're Czech, rang a girl (Polish) and asked her her opinion. Apparently they arent worried at all. I was astounded at that. Poland is key, much like the Czech people, to Europe. That''s her opinion only.

They didn't care before and well, without being rude, look what happened. The girl grew up in post war communist times. I heard the stories first hand from her , her mother and the grandmother, I dunno how she is not worried. She told me of her Mother raising her in the aftermath. I'm not Polish, she is. Then again I sat on the couch and watched her mother cry at an election of someone that was pro-Russia. I don't speak Polish (a bit here and there) yet she seems fine with this. I can't get my head around that at all.

Head in the sand for them. Guess what is the main point into Europe should a war occur? Yep Poland. Always Poland. Polish army is weak, Russians could simply walk in (again).

 

[StreetsofBeige]

So what's going on with NATO? Doesn't sound like much of a response so far although heard US and Canada are doing sanctions. That's it?

Is it the usual when it comes to war?............ Every country that promotes freedom sits back and waits for the US military to come gunslinging to save the day and THEN the other countries join in committing barely any resources?

How many NATO countries are there right there near Ukraine? Like 20? OK, European brotherhood whose going to make the first big move to help out Ukraine?

 

[MightySquirrel]

So what's going on with NATO? Doesn't sound like much of a response so far although heard US and Canada are doing sanctions. That's it?

Is it the usual when it comes to war?............ Every country that promotes freedom sits back and waits for the US military to come gunslinging to save the day and THEN the other countries join in committing barely any resources?

How many NATO countries are there right there near Ukraine? Like 20? OK, European brotherhood whose going to make the first big move to help out Ukraine?

It can only be Germany, France and UK but can never trust brits, others not very relevant.

 

[Kraz]

We should be booting people out of NATO not adding more. Especially Germany. If you can barely muster 5k helmets then no one should be defending your ass.

There are other assets than helmets to be considered.

 

[M1chl]

I know you're Czech, rang a girl (Polish) and asked her her opinion. Apparently they arent worried at all. I was astounded at that. Poland is key, much like the Czech people, to Europe. That''s her opinion only.

They didn't care before and well, without being rude, look what happened. The girl grew up in post war communist times. I heard the stories first hand from her , her mother and the grandmother, I dunno how she is not worried. She told me of her Mother raising her in the aftermath. I'm not Polish, she is. Then again I sat on the couch and watched her mother cry at an election of someone that was pro-Russia. I don't speak Polish (a bit here and there) yet she seems fine with this. I can't get my head around that at all.

Head in the sand for them. Guess what is the main point into Europe should a war occur? Yep Poland. Always Poland. Polish army is weak, Russians could simply walk in (again).

Except NATO. You know, I am feeling somewhat despair that the history is repeating, as with us in 68 (which does affect my parents, so it's pretty direct to me). Also in Czech there is a ton of Ukrainian workers and I know quite a lot of people from Ukraine who studied with me on the university. With few of them I am in contact and it's not good. Not good at all.

 

[M1chl]

So what's going on with NATO? Doesn't sound like much of a response so far although heard US and Canada are doing sanctions. That's it?

Is it the usual when it comes to war?............ Every country that promotes freedom sits back and waits for the US military to come gunslinging to save the day and THEN the other countries join in committing barely any resources?

How many NATO countries are there right there near Ukraine? Like 20? OK, European brotherhood whose going to make the first big move to help out Ukraine?

Nobody, since that's where the WW3 would started. Since if some member of NATO have issues, then all other member have to come to help. Also Russia have a lot of rocket nukes and so on. The idea Russia fighting with NATO is end of the world.

 

[Facism]

I know you're Czech, rang a girl (Polish) and asked her her opinion. Apparently they arent worried at all. I was astounded at that. Poland is key, much like the Czech people, to Europe. That''s her opinion only.

They didn't care before and well, without being rude, look what happened. The girl grew up in post war communist times. I heard the stories first hand from her , her mother and the grandmother, I dunno how she is not worried. She told me of her Mother raising her in the aftermath. I'm not Polish, she is. Then again I sat on the couch and watched her mother cry at an election of someone that was pro-Russia. I don't speak Polish (a bit here and there) yet she seems fine with this. I can't get my head around that at all.

Head in the sand for them. Guess what is the main point into Europe should a war occur? Yep Poland. Always Poland. Polish army is weak, Russians could simply walk in (again).

my sister in law is Czech and her mom has some horror stories of her life growing up in those times. Dunno how anyone could ever want a return to those times in Europe.

 

[Gp1]

Rosgvardia is Putin personal army so to say

Closed airspace and cyber attacks. Shit will probably hit the fan soon. Stay safe eastern eurogafers.

 

[Ionian]

Except NATO. You know, I am feeling somewhat despair that the history is repeating, as with us in 68 (which does affect my parents, so it's pretty direct to me). Also in Czech there is a ton of Ukrainian workers and I know quite a lot of people from Ukraine who studied with me on the university. With few of them I am in contact and it's not good. Not good at all.

Yeah it's real. My God man stay safe. Putin might feint (has already) and then go again (has already). I can only imagine this is what he's doing to cement his legacy.

Sanctions don't work, never ever did against dictators. Look at the middle east, a complete shit-show. when they said no the UK and US assassinate them. (Sadam, Gadaffi). And then afterwards say whoops?! I totally swear they had WMD's. Afterwards, oh shit they're not happy about this, they're sending suicide bombers.

You know what does work to be noticed by them? Saying FU and invading. Putin wants to stamp his power on the map. As I said before it's a policy of appeasement yet again.

That's just my opinion, I fucking hope it does not come to this but once they if/do invade it's world war. Imagine Boris Johnson declaring it, nobody will listen. The UK said FU to Europe thanks to him and his policies, they aren't trusted. This in the middle of what is already going to be the worst recession since 2005 without a conflict anyway. It's only a matter of time.

 

[FunkMiller]

Haha wait..wait you still believe this propaganda? You should really go read up on the history of WWII. There were multiple ways the war would've ended without America slaughtering 100,000+ civilians of both cities. Whether it was the USSR front advancing on Japan or the fact that Japan was planning on surrendering regardless of atomic weapon threats and Truman's advisors and Truman himself knew this.

Wild that this idea still permeates society.

Alternative viewpoint:

While there is always some nuance in these important historical events that needs to be considered, there is also a very obvious open-ended agenda in current society to recast every action taken by western states as being bad, corrupt, or both. Real easy for armchair historians to make judgements on things that happened a long time ago, under the most extreme of pressures.

I would ask you to regard some of the 'fresh' opinion about the events of the second world war as being just as much a tool of propaganda as anything else you may read - right alongside a lot of the same kind of propaganda being spewed right now about how Russia attacking Ukraine is somehow the fault of NATO and the western alliance.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Chinese media accidentally posts CCP rules on Russia-Ukraine coverage, hint at Taiwan takeover

A news agency and two editors from different outlets posted similar instructions or stances on the coverage of Russia's actions in Ukraine, citing a need for Russia's help with Taiwan in the future.

www.foxnews.com

I've got a bad feeling about all of this.

First red flag - Fox News. Second, why on earth would someone post something like that on Weibo? Do you think that something so sensitive would be posted on a social media platform that even foreign forces have access to?

No, it won't be happening any time soon.

Putin is invoking the prisoners' dilemma in order to enforce a militaristic stalemate.

I also think that people here are wholly unaware of how popular Putin really is, especially in the Donbas region. Not everything is propaganda, Putin is genuinely liked by many eastern Europeans. The reasons for this are multiple and probably as irrational as Trump's popularity in the US.

One key factor is that Russia has been sending a lot of financial and economical support to its eastern neighbors. In contrast, the EU has done very little for the prosperity of many eastern countries, oftentimes sanctioning them when they didn't satisfy the conditions for membership or keeping them on the waiting list for far too long.

Believe it or not, but many Crimeans are actually happy with the annexation most notably because of the 20 billion dollars that Russia invested in the region:



Also people underestimate how insanely important Kiev is for Russian people, so it is no wonder that Putin is finding a lot of support among his own population and military:



If you truly want to understand this conflict, you need to understand how Putin is viewed from a East-European perspective, where the EU is largely fallen into disfavor and Russia is sending a lot of support to the ex-members of the now defunct Warsaw pact.

You're completely correct, and not only in Donbas. I'm currently living in China, in a city where a big chunk of foreigners come from Tajikistan, Kazakistan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan and I can guarantee you 100%, all of them love Putin. For some reason, they really love Putin, because Russia has been helping their countries develop, while keeping them as close allies with Russian military inside. In the meanwhile, I also have some Afghanistan friends here and all of them have a strong hate for the US and Europe (I'm European), stating that both regions have done nothing is his country besides bombing and robbing. I still remember one of them saying "Can you believe that the US not even a fucking tree planted in my hometown? They had troops there, but not even a tree was planted".

There are many factors that are leading to this conflict, it's not simply a "Russia bad, US good". Do I agree with an invasion? Fuck no, but understanding both sides is the key to understanding a conflict. I keep saying, the media is not here to inform you, it's used to sway you by using propaganda.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

Alternative viewpoint:

While there is always some nuance in these important historical events that needs to be considered, there is also a very obvious open-ended agenda in current society to recast every action taken by western states as being bad, corrupt, or both.

I would ask you to regard some of the 'fresh' opinion about the events of the second world war as being just as much a tool of propaganda as anything else you may read.

I definitely agree with you there, revisionist history is most definitely a thing. However speaking on exactly what I replied to you with though there's a ton of historical evidence that proves what I'm talking about.

There's archives containing discussion and information from both the Japanese and the Americans showing that Japan was planning to surrender very soon. By that point in the war the soviets had already invaded Manchuria and defeated the military presence there, Japan knew it couldn't handle a two pronged attack from the soviets AND the U.S., and despite their worries of the emperor (who was looked at as a literal deity back then) being killed they apparently feared communism more and had set in motion plans to surrender to the Americans sometime that August (iirc).

And again, through actual historical evidence like kn record statements and intercepted communications, Truman and his advisors were well aware of the willingness of Japan to surrender. And yet they still dropped the bombs. Multiple military advisors went on record stating the bombs were morally reprehensible or militarily unnecessary.

Shit, even Truman's chief of staff said --

“the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender …. In being the first to use it we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages.”


I mean i could go on and on here, it's really fascinating and horrifying stuff. These aren't "fresh" opinions, these are opinions based on actual information from that exact time period pieced together over the ensuing decades.

So I would ask you to regard the "rah rah atom bombs saved the world!" American propaganda that has been peddled since the days the bombs dropped as being a tool the American government pushed out on its people back then (and is still pervasive today apparently) to justify it's abhorrent behavior.

It's 2022 man, like I said read up on the events that transpired. This isn't coming from some blue haired anti American weirdo on Twitter. Check out a book called The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb, it's a well written jumping off point on the subject.

 

[Alexios]

Easy solution if our dear west wanted, let them be independent and detach from Ukraine under the condition that they do not join Russia. Ukraine has been marginalizing and attacking the Russian speaking people of their border areas like Donbas anyway since the 2014 US/EU backed coup that brought down their legally elected government and put neo nazis in power, neo nazis that we now pretend share western/eu values against evil communist (lmao, as capitalist as any western country folks, get real) Russia. Orban's values maybe, not the people's. Not that Russia's doing any of this for the people but at least from the perspective of the people who didn't like their country to be taken over by neo nazis, they have been aiding them paying wages and pensions in areas that are under attack and embargo with no outside aid and have allowed people to continue living a decent life rather than become like Palestinians or worse in their own country. Maybe if the whole world was aiding them (well, if not simply not instigate the coup to begin with) and let them stay independent like say Taiwan from China or Hong Kong, Russia wouldn't have found such fertile ground for its own interests. But nope, they had to overreach once again and this is the result. Theyr'e not even doing anything to de-escalate the situation really, rather the opposite with all the bs about how they'll invade on date x, or already have, or whatever, it's like SEGA's MS buyout meme here, changing it every day with a different report without ever acknowledging the mistakes for the previous. Maybe because a lot of failed EU (and UK) politicians think a war will save their image/stop their downhill trajectory if they become the leaders that bring people together against an external threat. Right.

 

[Wheeljack539]

You're completely correct, and not only in Donbas. I'm currently living in China, in a city where a big chunk of foreigners come from Tajikistan, Kazakistan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan and I can guarantee you 100%, all of them love Putin. For some reason, they really love Putin, because Russia has been helping their countries develop, while keeping them as close allies with Russian military inside. In the meanwhile, I also have some Afghanistan friends here and all of them have a strong hate for the US and Europe (I'm European), stating that both regions have done nothing is his country besides bombing and robbing. I still remember one of them saying "Can you believe that the US not even a fucking tree planted in my hometown? They had troops there, but not even a tree was planted".

There are many factors that are leading to this conflict, it's not simply a "Russia bad, US good". Do I agree with an invasion? Fuck no, but understanding both sides is the key to understanding a conflict. I keep saying, the media is not here to inform you, it's used to sway you by using propaganda.

I had a friend who served there years ago. He said they planted a good number of transplanted trees in an act of good will only for them to be shortly later cut down by a number of locals to be used by them. Said it was fucking disheartening as so few of them understood why they needed to stay there after they were planted.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

I had a friend who served there years ago. He said they planted a good number of transplanted trees in an act of good will only for them to be shortly later cut down by a number of locals to be used by them. Said it was fucking disheartening as so few of them understood why they needed to stay there after they were planted.

That's actually pretty sad. I have no opinion on this, just gave an insight of the mind of an Afghan person, but it's good to see things from both sides.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I definitely agree with you there, revisionist history is most definitely a thing. However speaking on exactly what I replied to you with though there's a ton of historical evidence that proves what I'm talking about.

There's archives containing discussion and information from both the Japanese and the Americans showing that Japan was planning to surrender very soon. By that point in the war the soviets had already invaded Manchuria and defeated the military presence there, Japan knew it couldn't handle a two pronged attack from the soviets AND the U.S., and despite their worries of the emperor (who was looked at as a literal deity back then) being killed they apparently feared communism more and had set in motion plans to surrender to the Americans sometime that August (iirc).

And again, through actual historical evidence like kn record statements and intercepted communications, Truman and his advisors were well aware of the willingness of Japan to surrender. And yet they still dropped the bombs. Multiple military advisors went on record stating the bombs were morally reprehensible or militarily unnecessary.

Shit, even Truman's chief of staff said --

“the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender …. In being the first to use it we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages.”


I mean i could go on and on here, it's really fascinating and horrifying stuff. These aren't "fresh" opinions, these are opinions based on actual information from that exact time period pieced together over the ensuing decades.

So I would ask you to regard the "rah rah atom bombs saved the world!" American propaganda that has been peddled since the days the bombs dropped as being a tool the American government pushed out on its people back then (and is still pervasive today apparently) to justify it's abhorrent behavior.

It's 2022 man, like I said read up on the events that transpired. This isn't coming from some blue haired anti American weirdo on Twitter. Check out a book called The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb, it's a well written jumping off point on the subject.

They were ready to surrender in a theoretical sense at sometime in the future with acceptable terms, not immediately and unconditionally. The worst thing that could have happened is some half-ass surrender where Japan still retained their top 10 worst culture ever status.

 

[Dream-Knife]

Haha wait..wait you still believe this propaganda? You should really go read up on the history of WWII. There were multiple ways the war would've ended without America slaughtering 100,000+ civilians of both cities. Whether it was the USSR front advancing on Japan or the fact that Japan was planning on surrendering regardless of atomic weapon threats and Truman's advisors and Truman himself knew this.

Wild that this idea still permeates society.

The atomic bombs were about equal to the firebombing campaigns at the same time.

They were ready to surrender in a theoretical sense at sometime in the future with acceptable terms, not immediately and unconditionally. The worst thing that could have happened is some half-ass surrender where Japan still retained their top 10 worst culture ever status.

It's not our place to criticize their culture. They had and still have more culture than we do.

 

[Hari Seldon]

It's not our place to criticize their culture. They had and still have more culture than we do.

They were raping children, blooding new recruits by decapitating civilians and prisoners, and generally doing shit that would have been common place during the Golden Horde. If you want to give them a pass you better give the Nazis one too because they were flat out worse, just not as industrialized.

 

[Dream-Knife]

They were raping children, blooding new recruits by decapitating civilians and prisoners, and generally doing shit that would have been common place during the Golden Horde. If you want to give them a pass you better give the Nazis one too because they were flat out worse, just not as industrialized.

That's not their culture, that's fighting a barbaric war.

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

Very sad times ahead.

It always amazes me that things like sanctions are so reactive in nature.

If you see a guy walking around a restaurant waving around a weapon, you don't keep serving them food just because they haven't bludgeoned anyone yet.

 

[DeepBreath87]

That's not their culture, that's fighting a barbaric war.

What? No. Lots of other countries were fighting the same war and didn’t pull half the shit Japan did. They’ve come a long way, thanks partly to getting their balls removed by the US, but they should be commended all the same. But to pretend we cannot critique Japanese culture prior to and during World War 2 is asinine. In many ways, they were worse than Germany in terms of their treatment of prisoners. Especially the Chinese.

 

[ManaByte]

Putin just announced to Russia that it’s on.

 

[Gp1]

Holly s*...

 

[Javthusiast]

Fuck that piece of shit.

 

[Elder Legend]

I am Russian in real life but came to the states in 2000 cause country was/is doo doo. Putin is just a hungry tyrant and will sit at the throne till his death.

This is kind of bad for me because 2 of my.employees both live in Ukraine, one of them being a social media manager and the other a video editor. They are very good people and unfortunately one of them was not working for the last 2 days because she got scared and had to move to a different part of the country. I'll be devastated if something happens to them

 

[3liteDragon]

 

[Kenpachii]

Ukraine made there own bed really.

By thinking the EU and US cares beyond exploiting there country to shit. Bad leadership is bad.

Germany aka europe is dependend on russia's gas so they will never help ukraine or any eastern country which the west already see's russia to start with.
France has zero influence on anybody
England nobody takes them serious as they moved out of europe they are just a bootleg america at this point in time.
America is weak, will try to kill markets of the EU in order to keep there own markets up and make some bucks from weapon deals something they are good at, nothing they can do against russia, so they will not show up.
Russia is free to invade,

If ukraine didn't wanted to get invaded they should have done the following thing:
- not join the EU partner ship deal ( which was done illegal anyway by communist Brussels )
- not cut russia off from there country markets and kick all there shills out of there and replace them with pro western idiots.
- Stay a buffer country until u get your shit together, instead of just yoloing it.
- - Build a million drones and have nukes to defend there country at all cost to repel russia's army, instead of removing all your weapons because u think u live in some fairy tale land.
- not elected a idiot of a soap opera president that has no clue what the fuck he's doing and as a result putin basically has free reign.
- Not relay on the EU or US for your own security specially when u boarder against russia.

All simple shit.

Instead they played there hand, got warned 50 times by russia over 2 decades, got even partly invaded, but still kept trucking hard on there dream cloud and now russia goes in.

Honestly, if mexico was joining tommorow russia and blocks US out entirely and replace there president with a russian puppet and u see more and more russian weapons move to the american boarder, u will have the same happen.

And for the people that are afraid of invasion into poland, russia can't even invade the entirety of ukraine without creating vietnam 2.0 for them. They have no money and resources to hold it or maintain it, they need the population on there side or else its GG. That's how wars are won and how country's move over. Putin will never move into poland because then the west will care in order to drone the living shit out of there rusty tanks. The same what turkey did a few years ago and they did a u-turn faster then light.