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[Buckethead]

I wrote that before I saw your self reply.

That "self reply" was always there.

I'm not sure why you posited a question and then proceeded to reply and answer yourself.

It was there as to not confuse people on my intentions and provide reasoning for said question.

 

[eznark]

The harm is that it serves to spread hate messages and it's very dishonest to pretend is not so. It's like having a white pride day and pretend it's not racist. Last year, we already had murders by hate groups on the same avenue where the gay parade happens, which even on days that have nothing to do with the parade, is considered a very safe place for gays. The hate is already here and is already boiling precisely because gays are finally achieving some legislative victories. In this context, you put a bunch of hateful people together to validade their hate? How the fuck there is no harm in that?

So gay pride day is really just "we hate breeders" day? Is the Christmas parade secretly a bunch of anti Semite bigot nazis marching through New York?

 

[Sblargh]

What does that have to do with anything? I always feel awesome and respected as a dad, but I'm not turning down Fathers Day.

I don't get why anyone would be threatened or offended by it.

People feel threatened or offended because it is a threat and a offense. It will be a bunch of people calling themselves "normal" telling the "abominations" that they might have authorization to exist as long as they hide properly. Again, I find very dishonest to pretend that this event will be anything but that.

So gay pride day is really just "we hate breeders" day? Is the Christmas parade secretly a bunch of anti Semite bigot nazis marching through New York?

Don't ignore the historical and social contexts of different social groups. That's the dishonesty.

 

[ZephyrFate]

So gay pride day is really just "we hate breeders" day? Is the Christmas parade secretly a bunch of anti Semite bigot nazis marching through New York?

Bahahaha what.

 

[Plywood]

I'm glad you took out "The OT" from your avatar because Daenerys Targaryen must be shown in full nudity/awesomeness at all times.

what I mean to say is:

Hodor

 

[Koomaster]

What does that have to do with anything? I always feel awesome and respected as a dad, but I'm not turning down Fathers Day.

I don't get why anyone would be threatened or offended by it.

I said that gay people deserve a day to feel good about themselves for being gay.

You responded why can't straight people have that - I assume you mean a day where they get to feel good about themselves for being straight.

I'm asking when DON'T straight people feel good about being straight? Why can't they have that? It's because they don't need that. There is no oppression or negative consequence to being straight to where straight people need to have a parade to feel good about their heterosexuality.

 

[RunWhiteBoyRun]

It's like having a white pride day and pretend it's not racist.

So white people can't have a pride day because it's racist? People can say <insert color> Pride, but when it's crackers we gotta shut up?

 

[Sblargh]

So white people can't have a pride day because it's racist? People can say <insert color> Pride, but when it's crackers we gotta shut up?

Now, that's just trolling.

 

[ZephyrFate]

So white people can't have a pride day because it's racist? People can say <insert color> Pride, but when it's crackers we gotta shut up?

And it



begins.

 

[eznark]

I'm glad you took out "The OT" from your avatar because Daenerys Targaryen must be shown in full nudity/awesomeness at all times.

eznark: Because Gay Pride Day is so much more than just feeling happy or comfortable, it's a recognizable retaliation against all the heteronormative ideals oppressing and categorizing them. It's a statement and demand for respect to be treated the same as everyone else.

It isn't some day you can just place on anyone.

Ok, but how does this in any way take away from that? I enjoy gay pride festivals ( not a parade guy) but I'm starting to feel like maybe I shouldnt? Apparently, I need to feel threatened by people who are different from me celebrating that difference?

 

[Koomaster]

That "self reply" was always there.


It was there as to not confuse people on my intentions and provide reasoning for said question.

Apologies then, I read your post in a more condescending tone than was your intention? I read it as; 'Gay people have this stuff, so what's the point anymore with a pride parade.'

 

[Sblargh]

Ok, but how does this in any way take away from that? I enjoy gay pride festivals ( not a parade guy) but I'm starting to feel like maybe I shouldnt? Apparently, I need to feel threatened by people who are different from me celebrating that difference?

If you are a minority and it is not that rare that people get murdered just for being what you are, then yes, you should feel threatened. When someone reports that 260 heterossexuals were killed last year just for being straight, you can start worrying about the gay parade.

 

[Buckethead]

If you are a minority and it is not that rare that people get murdered just for being what you are, then yes, you should feel threatened. When someone reports that 260 heterossexuals were killed last year just for being straight, you can start worrying about the gay parade.

I don't see the connection between persecution and ability to have parades.
Nor bigotry and inability not to.

The KKK is a blatantly bigoted group and allowed to have a parade, for example.

Anyways this is Sao Paulo, not I don't know... a notoriously bigoted town in the South.

 

[eznark]

I said that gay people deserve a day to feel good about themselves for being gay.

You responded why can't straight people have that - I assume you mean a day where they get to feel good about themselves for being straight.

I'm asking when DON'T straight people feel good about being straight? Why can't they have that? It's because they don't need that. There is no oppression or negative consequence to being straight to where straight people need to have a parade to feel good about their heterosexuality.

No, I'm saying why can't they have a day set aside to celebrate it. Do whatever it is straight Brazilians do for fun? I really do not understand how it's hateful, at all.

It's like the 4th of July, but instead of celebrating your country you celebrate your sexuality. Sure, most people are proud of their country on a daily basis but all countries (most/all, whatever) still set aside a day to really do it up.

I don't think a celebration requires a history of victimization.

Plus, another excuse to booze. No one is saying you aren't invited.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

We're straight! We're great! We can actually procreate!

Ahahahahaha, awesome.

 

[ZephyrFate]

No, I'm saying why can't they have a day set aside to celebrate it. Do whatever it is straight Brazilians do for fun? I really do not understand how it's hateful, at all.

It's like the 4th of July, but instead of celebrating your country you celebrate your sexuality. Sure, most people are proud of their country on a daily basis but all countries (most/all, whatever) still set aside a day to really do it up.

I don't think a celebration requires a history of victimization.

Plus, another excuse to booze. No one is saying you aren't invited.

Carnavale already fills in this exact same purpose.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

I don't see the connection between persecution and ability to have parades.
Nor bigotry and inability not to.

The KKK is a blatantly bigoted group and allowed to have a parade, for example.

Anyways this is Sao Paulo, not I don't know... a notoriously bigoted town in the South.

Persecution is like the entire raison d'etre behind "Gay Pride", so any comparison at all makes "Straight Pride" look ridiculous. Therefore, does it warrant a parade? If the intent is like cultivating a presence and strengthening solidarity... why would straight people even want a parade, it would seem kind of self indulgent and like empty pageantry.

 

[Koodo]

No, I'm saying why can't they have a day set aside to celebrate it. Do whatever it is straight Brazilians do for fun? I really do not understand how it's hateful, at all.

It's like the 4th of July, but instead of celebrating your country you celebrate your sexuality. Sure, most people are proud of their country on a daily basis but all countries (most/all, whatever) still set aside a day to really do it up.

I don't think a celebration requires a history of victimization.

Plus, another excuse to booze. No one is saying you aren't invited.

Would serve absolutely no purpose. Gay parades have the purpose of educating and enlightening. A straight parade would do what, exactly? (besides making non-heterosexuals feel further excluded, that is). If you want a day set aside to celebrate and get drunk, you can do that on any of the numerous festive days available throughout the year. Actually, you can do that on any weekend of the year.

The existence of festive days tie well with my first point too. They all exist for a purpose, or to mark some important historical event. A straight parade would just be wasteful indulgence. Bigoted indulgence, even.

 

[Buckethead]

Persecution is like the entire raison d'etre behind "Gay Pride", so any comparison at all makes "Straight Pride" look ridiculous. Therefore, does it warrant a parade? If the intent is like cultivating a presence and strengthening solidarity... why would straight people even want a parade, it would seem kind of self indulgent and like empty pageantry.

How ethnocentric of you?

Would serve absolutely no purpose.

Irrelevant.

 

[Orayn]

I think another part of it is the lack of any distinct "straight community." Do straight people get together for the sake of straightness itself?

 

[ZephyrFate]

How ethnocentric of you?

How in the world is that ethnocentric?

 

[Derrick01]

A group of people having a day is the most stupid thing ever to begin with but I don't see why straight people or white people can't have one if everyone else can. It's only fair.

Wouldn't mind seeing a WET channel either, and I guess I should say in before someone says "hurr you have cspan or CMT"

 

[Buckethead]

How in the world is that ethnocentric?

The terms "self indulgent" and "empty pageantry" are a value judgment from a gay pride perspective.

If some idiots want to have a Heterosexual Get Drunk fest who cares, that is their right.

If it has personal utility to a group of people it has "purpose".

 

[eznark]

I think another part of it is the lack of any distinct "straight community." Do straight people get together for the sake of straightness itself?

Hence the need for a parade!

 

[ZephyrFate]

The terms "self indulgent" and "empty pageantry" are a value judgment from a gay pride perspective.

If some idiots want to have a Heterosexual Get Drunk fest who cares, that is their right.

Homosexuality is not an ethnic group.

 

[Buckethead]

Homosexuality is not an ethnicity.

But is a cultural group. Fits the definition.

 

[Koodo]

Irrelevant.

Irrelevant when every single festive day on the planet has an underlying purpose?

Mhm, you keep on thinking that.

 

[Sblargh]

I don't see the connection between persecution and ability to have parades.
Nor bigotry and inability not to.

The KKK is a blatantly bigoted group and allowed to have a parade, for example.

Anyways this is Sao Paulo, not I don't know... a notoriously bigoted town in the South.

I would be as pissed if there was a KKK parade here too. My point is that bigoted events breed violence and therefore is bad, if you don't think they breed violence, we are discussing the validity of a fact; if you agree they breed violence, but should be allowed anyway, then we have a divergence of values.

Whatever it is, at least I'm happy you are apparently recognizing this as a bigot parade.

 

[speculawyer]

whatever

 

[Koomaster]

No, I'm saying why can't they have a day set aside to celebrate it. Do whatever it is straight Brazilians do for fun? I really do not understand how it's hateful, at all.

It's like the 4th of July, but instead of celebrating your country you celebrate your sexuality. Sure, most people are proud of their country on a daily basis but all countries (most/all, whatever) still set aside a day to really do it up.

I don't think a celebration requires a history of victimization.

Plus, another excuse to booze. No one is saying you aren't invited.

People celebrate the entire history of their countries or great fights their country has been involved in, or like the 4th of July their independence from the oppression of their mother country. So there is a little bit of victimization there, so your analogy isn't spot on.

And like I said in my first post, the idea in itself isn't hateful, but the baggage behind it makes it not only unnecessary but also belittling of the actual importance of a gay pride parade.

And vice versa, no one is saying straight people aren't invited to gay pride events. PFLAG exists for a reason. You want an excuse to booze it up; come out, participate, have a good time.

 

[ZephyrFate]

But is a cultural group. Fits the definition.

But it is not ethnocentrism anyway, since the claims of self-indulgence would be fact, not just biased opinion. Smart straight people would see it as completely narcissistic. You have every other day in the year to do it, and in the majority of the world gay pride isn't even a blip on your fucking radar so in those areas heterosexuals basically get the day anyway.

 

[Buckethead]

Whatever it is, at least I'm happy you are apparently recognizing this as a bigot parade.

I'm not though.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.
I'm not saying I agree either way with a Hetero Pride Day - just pointing out inconsistencies.

Irrelevant when every single festive day on the planet has an underlying purpose?

Purpose is relative.

4th of July's purpose may be to celebrate the independence of our country.
Most people celebrate in ways inconsistent with this "purpose".

St. Patrick's Day is a religious holiday yet most people celebrate it by breaking biblical precepts and getting drunk.

Just because people deviate from a certain purpose and do unacceptable things according to your own personal beliefs, does not mean they don't have the right to do them nor should their rights be revoked because they can't make "proper" choices.

 

[Sblargh]

And btw, there was already a straight "protest" on Paulista earlier this year (or maybe last year, I don't remember), if anyone is wondering, it was just a hate fest with our special breed of miscigenated neonazis and fascists and the like. But I assure you that we are not, as a whole, a bigoted city.
Actually, I feel the pain of americans now when there is news of some little town hating on muslims on whatever and US-gaf has to explain you are not all like that.

Really, we are far from being all like that. Come to São Paulo, go to Paulista, kiss your homossexual partner, see people not giving a shit.

 

[Koodo]

Purpose is relative.

4th of July's purpose may be to celebrate the independence of our country.
Most people celebrate in ways inconsistent with this "purpose".

St. Patrick's Day is a religious holiday yet most people celebrate it by breaking biblical precepts and getting drunk.

Just because people deviate from a certain purpose and do unacceptable things according to your own personal beliefs, does not mean they don't have the right to do them nor should their rights be revoked because they can't make "proper" choices.

That doesn't answer for these questionable parades being a wasteful indulgence, like I originally said. 4th of July and St. Patrick's Day are ultimately not a wasteful celebration in any way.

There is a white parade here in Calgary every year. It causes more hardships to the city than benefits since (a) obviously a scant number of people attend, and (b) police must be present to ward off the threat of violence. The latter is a waste of time and resources.

I'm not sure how Sao Paolo would receive a straight parade, but I wouldn't be surprised if it ultimately results in a net loss. If that is the case, I am of the opinion that it should be barred from existing (and this is excluding disagreements with these parades on a moral ground).

 

[Buckethead]

St. Patrick's Day are ultimately not a wasteful celebration in any way.

How is a day entirely devoted to getting drunk not a "wasteful celebration" or "self-indulgent" (per your definition)?

 

[Koodo]

How is a day entirely devoted to getting drunk not a "wasteful celebration" or "self-indulgent" (per your definition)?

Do you only read the first few sentences of my posts? (you seemed to have done the same with the prior post). I gave you financial reasons for my disagreements with the bigoted parades. Unless I'm mistaken, 4th of July and St. Patrick's Day celebrations pull in more gains for the cities they are held in than most festive days on the planet. It is not "wasteful" when a city ultimately benefits.

Again, I'm excluding all numerous moral reasons I have to be against these parades and focusing on more objective grounds.

 

[ZephyrFate]

How is a day entirely devoted to getting drunk not a "wasteful celebration" or "self-indulgent" (per your definition)?

St. Patrick's Day is a celebration of Irish culture, dude.

 

[Buckethead]

St. Patrick's Day is a celebration of Irish culture, dude.

Tell that to a person of Irish descent or a real Catholic for that matter.

Getting drunk as a celebration of Irish culture is one of the biggest, most offensive cliches there is out there.

Do you only read the first few sentences of my posts?

I read all of your post - no need to get lippy.

You mix moral and economic terms and "purpose" is vague, so it's not exactly straightforward.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Tell that to a person of Irish descent or a real Catholic for that matter.

Getting drunk as a celebration of Irish culture is one of the biggest, most offensive cliches there is out there.



I read all of your post - no need to get lippy.

You mix moral and economic terms and "purpose" is vague, so it's not exactly straightforward.

This still doesn't take away from the fact that a celebration of straightness which is 99.99% of all human history, culture, and society would be complete and utter hedonism. It would be on a level above celebrating drinking on St. Patrick's Day.

 

[Dead Man]

I don't really find myself that outraged by the idea of the parade, more by the justification.

a protest against the privileges the gay community enjoys.

Yeah... all those privileges... like... fuck, got nothing.

 

[AVclub]

It's really fun to watch people who claim to be deprived of things, try and deprive other people of things.

I'm a straight, white guy. I'm not Irish or Italian or Chinese or Puerto Rican. I want my fucking parade!

 

[ZephyrFate]

It's really fun to watch people who claim to be deprived of things, try and deprive other people of things.

I'm a straight, white guy. I'm not Irish or Italian or Chinese or Puerto Rican. I want my fucking parade!

You have everything.

 

[cutmeamango]

I'll enjoy that day like a real straight guy should: like any other day. Or knocking up a girl.

 

[Buckethead]

This still doesn't take away from the fact that a celebration of straightness which is 99.99% of all human history, culture, and society would be complete and utter hedonism.

It doesn't really matter.

What's Mardi Gras?

 

[AVclub]

You have everything.

Wrong. I don't have everything. Not even close to everything. I also don't have a parade. Why should I be denied a parade by anyone for any reason? The fucking Nazis were allowed a parade in some US cities. Why shouldn't straight people who have no malicious agenda be allowed to march down the street proclaiming their happiness about being heterosexual?

 

[ZephyrFate]

It doesn't really matter.

What's Mardi Gras?

An equivalent celebration of drinking and debauchery, doing anything possible, before giving them up for Lent. I would call it hedonism as well.

AVClub: I'll be sure to weep for you and the loss of your minutiae.

 

[Sblargh]

Wrong. I don't have everything. Not even close to everything. I also don't have a parade. Why should I be denied a parade by anyone for any reason? The fucking Nazis were allowed a parade in some US cities. Why shouldn't straight people who have no malicious agenda be allowed to march down the street proclaiming their happiness about being heterosexual?

They have a malicious agenda. Any straight parade will be a gathering of people with a malicious agenda. In the alternate universe where a straight parade isn't gay bashing, the idea would probably not even be considered as in this tolerant universe not even a gay parade would exist.

 

[SouthernDragon]

us poor oppressed heteros

wont someone think of the heteros

 

[AVclub]

AVClub: I'll be sure to weep for you and the loss of your minutiae.

See, but that's a funny jump you just made. You assume that me wanting a parade means that I'm somehow unhappy without one. You assume I'm asking for non-heterosexual people to feel bad for me. I'm not. "Here you can have a parade" doesn't equal "Oh we feel so bad about your situation." So please save your tears. I don't even understand what "minutiae" you're talking about.

I'm just saying a parade for straight people would be nice. "Mardi Gras" is for religious people who plan to give stuff up because of some ritual they believe in. You can't just say "Here straight people, use this parade to flaunt your straightness" anymore than I can say, "Here gay people, you can use the Coney Island Mermaid Parade or Village Halloween Parade in NYC to flaunt your gayness."

I want my fucking parade.

 

[jbueno]

That's the same argument my parents used in response to me when I was a kid and argued that if there was a Mothers' Day and a Fathers' Day, then there should be a Children's Day, too.

Haha, in Mexico we do have a Children´s Day, April 30th, and let me tell you as I kid I really looked forward to that day because my parents / grandparents would smother me with presents, as did most kids.