Lee Chaolan
Member
Beryl was almost played by Geena Davis. :jnc
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Sailor Moon Community Thread: She Blinded Me With Science!
- Thread starter MikeMyers
- Start date
Ami, Rei, Makoto, Minako, Michiru, and Usagi.
This is a thing?
Ok, the former is more of a thing, the latter is just Ami inspecting the depths of Mamoru's heart.
King Endymion
Member
Yeah, I know, the way they started out with her character was so weird, it's Minako changes personality in every other episode. Like Usagi said in ep 42: "Minako is so much more grown-up than we are." only applied for a handful of episodes lol.
That's the reason I dislike Stars even more, the Nehelenia arc is terrible and the "real" arc is so short, but still only feels like it's full of fillers until episode 195, plus the filler plots are pretty boring compared to previous seasons, then add the new terrible animation directors on top of that, and I can't enjoy it at all. :/
I agree. I find the break-up really adds something to those episode, they would feel pretty bare without it, Chibi-Usa is way underrated in R, I admit I didn't like it at first, but now I'm totally okay with her, must've hated her because I grew up with her awful Swedish voice lol.MikeMyers said:
The dinosaur episode is so harmless, it's not "omg so terrible, must remove it" bad, it's just bland and over the top imo. Was it only the US that skipped that episode, as well as the ADV DVD boxset?
Yep, just DiC's English language dub, and ADV's DVD box set, apparently for different reasons.
DiC knew that they wanted to have 65 episodes, but they didn't like where that landed them in the series. So they picked a "better" spot to quit, and took an axe to a half-dozen episodes on flimsy pretenses in order to make the series line up the way they wanted. The dinosaur episode got the axe because "it was filler" so it's head stuck out just a little bit farther than other episodes.
ADV got jerked around on the DVD set because time was running out to get the deal done, and Japan was eager to kill the series in America, so ADV was desperate and bargaining from a position of weakness. Toei (ADV's contact) had high quality masters, but they gave ADV low quality ones, because "LOL, why would we give you the good stuff?" Toei also wouldn't give them the dinosaur episode, at all, and contractually banned them from talking about it, although ADV speculated/implied that this particular jab came from Naoko, through Toei.
cj_iwakura
Member
Why did Japan have it out for us so badly?
Femmeworth
Banned
I can think of two reasons.
I don't understand it. It doesn't seem to make sense from any angle.
It's been theorized that America is potentially Sailor Moon's most lucrative market, so Naoko/Kodansha/Toei wanted to reset the market after it's substandard treatment at the hands of DiC/Tokyopop, and start again fresh, doing things right in a more-controlled way. But then those three couldn't agree on the right way of doing things. And the one weapon they all share is veto power. When they don't agree, things grind to a halt.
King Endymion
Member
The 65 episode thing really sucks, and where they ended up at episode 65 wasn't exactly a great point to stop either lol.
I just checked my ADV boxset, weird that the back shows picture/title of episode 1-66, 68-89" while the episode guide still has episode 67 in it.
The quality is indeed terrible, I don't care that much about the video quality, since comparing it to the Japanese remasters, it's mostly just the colors that are dull, there's not much difference in grain so meh. The audio, though, it's barely tolerable, I had to by the R2 sets to just get better audio quality, too bad they're not cheaper.
I kind of wonder what masters we got, or if the tv channel here screwed it up, SM was fine, but SMR is awful, it's cropped really weirdly at the top and bottom, so everyone is really skinny and their heads gets chopped of in a lot of scenes. :/
You're a horrible person.
KDash31987
Member
Some nice Sailor Moon Crystal inspired art from Marco Albiero, who did the art for a lot of the recent DVD releases and merchandise outside of Japan:
KDash31987
Member
Oh. I'd like to see Beryl and Fisheye in the same harem, though. Would be amusing.
I liked it because they provided us with some interesting duos such as Mars/Neptune, Mercury/Uranus, Venus/Pluto. It was fun to see their personalities interact.
Just a heads up, not many people enjoy seeing the world "filler" used in context with this show. This is because the anime is more of its own thing compared to the manga. The manga is more focused on the plot, where as the anime is more focused on the characters. It's kind of hard to compare them.
For contrast, a series like Bleach has an anime that (as far as I know) faithfully follows the story from the manga. However, in order to make sure the anime doesn't catch-up to the manga, they create anime-only episodes to the mangka can get ahead. Then there's the Dragon Ball Z approach, which is merely to take the existing chapter and drag it out.
Not aimed at you, but I really dislike when people dismiss things because its filler and not on its own merits. It's like if I asked someone if a school was bad, and they said yes because it has classes in it. And then I ask them why don't they like classes, and then they just say, "They're classes!" Likewise, another annoying complaint is when people say "well this adaptation of the anime is better than the other one because its closer to the manga." That''s not really telling me why it's better, but that it is just closer to the manga.
Femmeworth
Banned
Like it or not, the meaning of "filler" has expanded to include episodes that are more or less self-contained relative to the greater narrative.
Sailor Moon R 74
With the Inner Senshi kidnapped, Usagi goes off to battle Rubeus and succeeds thanks to Chibiusa. Time to move onto to some new villains.
Man, I really like how fucking determined Usagi is here. Mamoru mentions that Usagi and Chibiusa are almost like identical twins. He's onto something!
Only among anime fans who don't know better. It's like "irregardless". Common, but still misused.
Honestly when I use filler to describe non plot episodes of Sailor Moon, I Largely do so in the same way that I use the term to describe episodes of Power Rangers that aren't focused on moving the narative foreward.
IE: Day of the Dumpster is a Plot episode, Power Ranger Punks is a filler episode (and fucking terrifying).
IE: Day of the Dumpster is a Plot episode, Power Ranger Punks is a filler episode (and fucking terrifying).
Conversely I'm not crying into my conrnflakes if can lob off half the viewing time of, Super S or Stars.
King Endymion
Member
Why? Because of the terrible animation directors comment or because of my feelings about Stars in general?
And please, "supposed" Sailor Moon fans? It's my favorite show ever, and I can't use the word "filler"? Fans should know fans mean MOTD-episodes when you say filler, I would never ever watch the show without watching every single episode, I never skip episodes.
That said, I still find the MOTD-episode in SuperS and Stars terrible compared to the previous seasons, Since SM was new and fresh and has the whole Rainbow Crystal arc it feels like they really needs to be there, the same thing about R with the break-up arc and the getting to know Chibi-Usa. SuperS and Stars feels like the same thing happening over and over again with nothing relevant going on, I'm not saying they don't have good episodes here and there, but not like the previous series.
*facepalm*
Sailor Moon is an episodic anime. The value is in each individual episode. Some are definitely better than others, but the main thrust of the anime's interpretation on the concept is that the characters are what make everything work, not the overarching plot. If you just wanted plot you have the Memorial movies to watch instead, or better yet, just read the manga.
King Endymion
Member
You act like I'm new to the Moonie fandom and I know nothing about it, I have been a fan since the 90s, so don't try to teach me how SM works, please.
I - like in me and my opinion - don't like the SuperS and Stars MOTD-episodes because I don't think they're enjoyable, easy as that.
SuperS - Usagi turns into a jealous, paranoid child who acts younger than Chibi-Usa.
Stars - Pushed the inners (and outers for that matter) into the background.
These are things I don't like, I don't care for the Usagi/Seiya-thing, it feels like a punch in the face for someone who enjoyed Usagi/Mamoru for 170+ episodes.
Since SuperS MOTD-episodes relies heavily on Chibi-Usa development and Stars on the Starlights, I don't enjoy it.
If you can only count yourself as a fan if you love everything about a show, then that's just naive.
I'm only going on your statements. It's not as if I don't understand where you're coming from, as I was in a similar mental rut for years. That's really all it is, though, a mental rut.
Only for the first few episodes as the show tries to reintroduce everyone.
This isn't really the case. Makoto gets brushed aside, but overall they're right in the thick of things. Minako especially as she's always trying to get something going with the Starlights.
At least recognizing what is going on in a show should be important for counting yourself a fan.
I agree with Hito.
Meat > Filler. The term comes from the food industry, with hotdogs and hamburgers and the like. In some anime, like Naruto or Bleach, the manga is absolutely, undeniably, the real "meat" of the story, and the animators are simply animating it ("simple" being a relative term, and not intended as an insult). Inevitably, the animators get ahead of the overworked manga artist, so the animators produce "filler" to pad things out and buy some time. In extreme cases, the animators are forced to create entire "filler arcs" which are almost universally recognized as shoddy. Fans eventually noticed, so the term was coined.
Sailor Moon is not that kind of anime. It was thoroughly adapted, and reimagined by it's producers as an MOTD show. 95% of the show is MOTD. The manga storyline was adapted to become a framework, and the meat of the show was built around that frame by the animation staff, a team centered around their ability to create new works, not centered around their ability to animate a manga. There's little-to-no filler in Sailor Moon, because the animators were never waiting for anyone (aside from the dinosaur episode, or the Doom Tree arc, which are not significantly inferior).
Sailor Moon's structure should be defined as Frame > Meat > Filler (with what little of that there is), but fans do it a major disservice by regarding it as Meat > Filler (with filler constituting 95% of the show, and suggesting that Sailor Moon is as filler-ridden as shows like Naruto at their very worst).
Cutting the show down because you don't like the episode count, and then finding flimsy pretenses to give episodes the axe... it's exactly the same thing as what I said DiC did just the other day, except that DiC did it to a lot fewer episodes.
Most people putting together these lists of "must watch" episodes start by deciding that they need the opening and the ending. Oh wait, some generals shown in the first episode got knocked down along the way? Then list the episodes where they got knocked down. One of them got knocked down with a unique weapon? List the episode where the hero picked up said weapon. Hero picked up a different weapon in a different episode? Is that weapon seen in any episodes currently on the list? No? Then that weapon gets the axe like all the other episodes. They're looking for the bare minimum episode count that doesn't introduce obvious continuity errors.
Completely regardless of the quality (or lack of quality) in each individual episode, or things like flow and pacing that the show's actual creators were trying to build, and ignoring the fundamental nature of the show. It's a terrible practice which should not be encouraged.
Meat > Filler. The term comes from the food industry, with hotdogs and hamburgers and the like. In some anime, like Naruto or Bleach, the manga is absolutely, undeniably, the real "meat" of the story, and the animators are simply animating it ("simple" being a relative term, and not intended as an insult). Inevitably, the animators get ahead of the overworked manga artist, so the animators produce "filler" to pad things out and buy some time. In extreme cases, the animators are forced to create entire "filler arcs" which are almost universally recognized as shoddy. Fans eventually noticed, so the term was coined.
Sailor Moon is not that kind of anime. It was thoroughly adapted, and reimagined by it's producers as an MOTD show. 95% of the show is MOTD. The manga storyline was adapted to become a framework, and the meat of the show was built around that frame by the animation staff, a team centered around their ability to create new works, not centered around their ability to animate a manga. There's little-to-no filler in Sailor Moon, because the animators were never waiting for anyone (aside from the dinosaur episode, or the Doom Tree arc, which are not significantly inferior).
Sailor Moon's structure should be defined as Frame > Meat > Filler (with what little of that there is), but fans do it a major disservice by regarding it as Meat > Filler (with filler constituting 95% of the show, and suggesting that Sailor Moon is as filler-ridden as shows like Naruto at their very worst).
Cutting the show down because you don't like the episode count, and then finding flimsy pretenses to give episodes the axe... it's exactly the same thing as what I said DiC did just the other day, except that DiC did it to a lot fewer episodes.
Most people putting together these lists of "must watch" episodes start by deciding that they need the opening and the ending. Oh wait, some generals shown in the first episode got knocked down along the way? Then list the episodes where they got knocked down. One of them got knocked down with a unique weapon? List the episode where the hero picked up said weapon. Hero picked up a different weapon in a different episode? Is that weapon seen in any episodes currently on the list? No? Then that weapon gets the axe like all the other episodes. They're looking for the bare minimum episode count that doesn't introduce obvious continuity errors.
Completely regardless of the quality (or lack of quality) in each individual episode, or things like flow and pacing that the show's actual creators were trying to build, and ignoring the fundamental nature of the show. It's a terrible practice which should not be encouraged.
King Endymion
Member
I KIND of agree on the inners in Stars, but considering there are so many characters, it feels like they have smaller roles in each individual episode, especially during the battles, which is natural when you introduce new characters, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I don't really like Ami's character in Stars, she is too much into the Starlights for my liking, I know that's not really a change from the manga though.
But I wonder how many attacks the Inners and Outers have in Stars compared to previous seasons, feels like a huge increase, but maybe I'm wrong.
The difference in art style/animation directors is something I will never be okay with, especially since SuperS looked amazing (though I like R's directors the best), Katsumi Tamegai was still awesome, Masahiro Ando was terrible as usual, and some of the new ones really vary, one of them draws them like they have the mumps (like ep 191 and 195).
The music took a turn for the worse as well, with some exceptions, like the awesome variations of the intro theme.
Cheerilee: I would never suggest anyone to skip anything of SM, and I would never use the word filler for SM the same way as Naruto, just making it clear in case you were targeting me. ^_^
I would recommend paying attention to stuff outside the battles. You'll find that the inners are very much part of the show.
Also, Ami has always been weird, fangirly, and looks at things like an obsessive romance novel reader. She's just too reserved to let it show most of the time.
You'll find that Stars really doesn't have that much new music outside what you already mentioned. It leans quite a bit on material from Supers.
Also, Masahiro Ando goes off model, but you'll find that his episodes are more comic and fluid. Don't judge animation by still frames.
I meant it to the broader discussion of the word filler. I know you're not applying it to Sailor Moon in the same way as Naruto, but the word has a clear and negative meaning, and should not be applied to Sailor Moon. To broadly redefine the word as "not vital to the plot" dilutes the meaning and accuracy of the word in proximity to something like Naruto, and adds negativity to something like Sailor Moon, and breeds this idea that story must always be moving forward frantically, and shouldn't be allowed to slow down and breathe and take time to explore character.
King Endymion
Member
I love how you're trying to patronize me and not being subtle about it, it's okay though.
Do you really think I watch Sailor Moon for the battles, for these 2 minute scenes that happen every episode with recycled footage? No.
A lot of the episodes don't use the inners very effectively, IMO it feels like a show about Usagi and Seiya, I know it's called Sailor Moon and not Sailor Soldiers/Guardians/Senshi whatever. I do, however, like a few of the episodes that does revolve around them, like the one about Rei's cousin.
I can't seem to recall many scenes from SM, SMR or SMS where Ami is as giddy over something as in Stars, or even shows that kind of emotion...?
And I do have the Memorial Music Box, so I know what music is new to which season, and the ones in Stars isn't really good imo, except for the stuff I already mentioned.
Some of the episode Masahiro Ando did was good, but when he does serious episodes, they seem more stale than other directors work. Not to say he is the worst, but did the most episodes in all of SM, so for that, I find him to be the weakest, with his final episode (170) being the absolute worst looking.
cj_iwakura
Member
So... you're bothered by a character maturing and having different traits?
King Endymion
Member
M...maturing? You say Ami matured? That's not what I would call it. Doing something out of character isn't something I like. It's obvious she's ashamed of the way she acts in Stars, which is the only thing that makes it "ok", so it's not a complete 180, at least.
cj_iwakura
Member
Well, she could just go on playing up the shy girl trope for all eternity instead.
Starlights annoyed me too, but I did like their songs. As for SuperS, I remember some episodes bored me to tears but some episodes really entertained me. I certainly like Chibiusa a lot more now than I did back in the day.
Random, but my favorite episodes of Naruto are all filler.
Random, but my favorite episodes of Naruto are all filler.
King Endymion
Member
Considering she was a serious, determined but shy 14 year old girl who then became a giddy school girl at 16, I feel she took a turn for the worse, lol.
Hitokage: No worries, I'm not here to fight or argue, I'm here because I love Sailor Moon.
RoryDropkick
Member
It makes me happy to see people make up and not let the thread get nasty. Way to go you two, great to see people be civil to each other
KnightBuster
Member
Well not really. Remember, Ami kept to herself and focused solely on studying and such for a looooong while. But then she became friends with Usagi and company. Little bits here and there show that she's steadily becoming more confident in herself and start opening up to the girls (the end of her focus episode in S has her playfully teasing Usagi over Mamoru, which is completely adorable btw).
And not only that? But now she doesn't have the high school entrance exams to worry about. She even said it herself in the Stars premiere that she'll have more time for other activities aside from studying. Seeing her indulge a bit into idol groups isn't really out of character for her, she probably just got more comfortable with expressing herself.
KDash31987
Member
Speaking of which, I was wondering if anyone had a bigger version of this avatar along with the pictures that go for the other Senshi?
Here ya' go: http://kdash31987.minus.com/m1cAWruP9y60I
And here's that wallpaper I made and posted a while back, too. You can find more here: http://kdash31987.minus.com/mih00q0v8BzKF
Though I see that you edited your post now...
29 unless Mako chaoking Mamrou out is a common thing.
Which episode is this?
Did not know that! I'm kind of curious if Keiko Han will come back for the new anime, seeing as Toei brought her back for PGSM.
Having recently learned that Toru Furuya was once married to Mami Koyama, I'm trying to see if they ever interact in the anime. As someone who's had to be around an ex in a professional environment, I know how unsettling that can be.
EDIT - No episode today, will watch two tomorrow to make up for it.
Having recently learned that Toru Furuya was once married to Mami Koyama, I'm trying to see if they ever interact in the anime. As someone who's had to be around an ex in a professional environment, I know how unsettling that can be.
EDIT - No episode today, will watch two tomorrow to make up for it.
KnightBuster
Member
Saint Seiya. He played the titular Seiya and she played Shaina, a Saint that tried to kill him in the first episode, among other activities.
The masked girl who tried to train him to death and was like "SHOW ME YOUR COSMOS!" and such nonsense in a manner that would at worst make her look like she was wanting to see something not related to his power level?
Interesting, I'm planning on watching that soon actually.
They also play Yamcha and Lunch in Dragon Ball, but the only time I recall them interacting is when they landed at the Red Ribbon Army base. They also battle some robbers together in the Piccolo arc, but they didn't talk to each other there.
They were also together in Casshern Sins, which wasn't too long ago.
Back on topic, watching Episode 76 in a bit. Isn't the Nurse Minako episode in R? I feel like I should have crossed paths with it by now.
They also play Yamcha and Lunch in Dragon Ball, but the only time I recall them interacting is when they landed at the Red Ribbon Army base. They also battle some robbers together in the Piccolo arc, but they didn't talk to each other there.
They were also together in Casshern Sins, which wasn't too long ago.
Back on topic, watching Episode 76 in a bit. Isn't the Nurse Minako episode in R? I feel like I should have crossed paths with it by now.