It's this year's Artist!
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Samuel L Jackson Throws Shade at Manchester by the Sea'
- Thread starter Androidsleeps
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It's this year's Artist!
Frozenprince
Banned
That dog from The Artist deserved best actor that year tbh.
Ya, it did pretty well with supporting acting nods. Almost all major musicals have a few built in nominations though.
The genre doesn't matter as much as the subject matter. Look at The Artist. When was the last silent film before that that was a best picture winner?
I don't think that La La Land was made specifically to win awards (which is the truest definition of oscar bait), but I could tell that it would at least be nominated (assuming it was a good movie) by reading the synopsis before it had even been premiered.
Wrong song, though. Whoop that Trick is a lot stronger.
Aizen.S.Kennedy
Banned
Yea but the academy couldn't put together a dance number for it sooo.
Mushroomer25
Member
To be fair, Manchester By The Sea is a film that speaks to a VERY specific demographic (sad white dudes) - and film critics are a part of that demo. Predictably, they're smitten with it. I liked it a lot - unsurprising, because I am a sad white dude. I can't blame anyone for not really feeling it, though.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Meh. The amount of films that are so outside my own life experiences that I love would not make for a short list. I don't need to "relate" in order to get it.
lightskintwin
Banned
Did you anticipate Hail Caesar being nominated in major categories based off the synopsis? Will it be? There are several factors at play and I think genre is absolutely one of them and that subject matter alone does not dominate the decision.
Messofanego
Banned
Can we stop using "historical accuracy" as an argument for dramatised art? Manchester By The Sea isn't a documentary of Manchester. Most of the talent isn't even from Massachusetts, let alone Manchester. There's nothing wrong if the film had actors of any other race, and IT DOES.
There's no problem with Manchester By The Sea having a predominantly white cast. Just like with Moonlight having a predominantly black cast.
Samuel L Jackson is just suspecting Moonlight might get shafted because of it being a black movie. I hope the Academy proves him wrong, as I'm sure he does, too. Both are great films (and anyway it's never about which is the best film), so if Moonlight won, that'd be great progress.
Aizen.S.Kennedy
Banned
S
This makes a lot of sense. Also it's crazy how Many sad white dudes I know in real life. They generally don't have as much to be sad about as my black friends but on average they are more sad it seems. I wonder what's up with that 🤔🤔
Both are fake Manchesters. I'm talking about the original, the best, the world famous, Manchester UK. Which isn't by the sea.
lightskintwin
Banned
I was actually going to bring up Hail Caesar, but it has all the hallmarks of the type of film Academy members would love.
Frozenprince
Banned
It's got Clooney in it, that pretty much guarantees at least a nom somewhere.
Messofanego
Banned
Our Manchester is nothing to be proud about...
lightskintwin
Banned
Yeah, it is crazy how many sad or depressed white dudes I know in real life. Suicide is much higher amongst White dudes than Black dudes too. I wonder why that is?
It didn't get nominated for anything. There has to be a story on why that is.
Frozenprince
Banned
Privilege affords them the opportunity to be morose and reflective on their inadequacy of self instead of being out and about in the struggle.
Personal opinion
ChoklitReign
Member
I see plenty of well-reviewed films in theaters, but my taste is my taste and I don't normally care for dramas about ordinary people - I prefer watching films about interesting events and people. It's why I won't watch any of the movies mentioned in the OP even if they're Best Picture favorites. Last year was unusual in how many of my favorite movies aligned with the critics, I had a blast going to the movies. Not so much this year - I saw like 4 movies until November when I doubled that.
I'm in total agreement with the Nostalgia Chick. The Academy nominated fairly diverse films, both blockbusters and character dramas, but since the late 90s they care only about character films, historical dramas, and films about showbiz. It's problematic that movies like Transformers are apparently audience favorites but not all high-grossing movies are that bad. Awards are totally being used to market movies that won't make a lot of money to publicize them, and that's why we don't care about awards anymore.
I'm in total agreement with the Nostalgia Chick. The Academy nominated fairly diverse films, both blockbusters and character dramas, but since the late 90s they care only about character films, historical dramas, and films about showbiz. It's problematic that movies like Transformers are apparently audience favorites but not all high-grossing movies are that bad. Awards are totally being used to market movies that won't make a lot of money to publicize them, and that's why we don't care about awards anymore.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
jenniferlawrenceok.gif
Assuming that it had the critical push to make it happen in the first place, any talk of why Hail, Caesar! won't be nominated for anything major begins and ends with "it came out in February." The Academy has a short attention span these days.
I'm not arguing that there is only one factor for winning. I just don't think that La La Land being a musical means much in a discussion about Oscar bait (or oscar friendly films to be less accusing of the creators' intentions), since it's a deliberate love letter to 40s/50s Hollywood.
If Hail, Caesar! released in December instead of February, it would have had a better chance. However, with that film, I think not being top tier Coen Bros. hurts its chances. Comedies that aren't dramadies are already hard sells, even if they are by acclaimed directors.
andythinkpad
Member
The Emma Stone speech and the surreal bits are pretty baity, but overall a very watchable movie to normal audiences.
lightskintwin
Banned
I get that, but I'm surprised the studio didn't push it as such and do the normal campaign for it. I'm certain if Hail Caesar was a Weinstein film it would've at least attempted to get nominated.
Really watchable, but still an actor's circlejerk.
Aizen.S.Kennedy
Banned
Ok why are the suicide rates higher? Not saying the other poster is right, just if your gunna mock them you need to inform the rest of us who don't know the real answer.
I feel like that Universal figured that the religious aspect of it wouldn't play well with voters, and the idea of "what if the Hollywood 10 really were communist conspirators" was another element that would go over poorly. Satire can cut only so deep to be acceptable.
andythinkpad
Member
Oooooh thanks for explaining it to me. I was wondering why What the flick! gave it such a high review.
lightskintwin
Banned
Ok, I haven't seen the film, but you're definitely probably right about that. LOL
It's a pretty nutty film, all things considered. It gets into some surprisingly weird territory with its depiction of that era of Hollywood, and not always in the most flattering way.
Read this as jenniferlawrencecock.
Mushroomer25
Member
Not wholly wrong. Manchester By The Sea absolutely deals with characters who are dealing with immense personal tragedy and grief, but it examines it through the lens of men who are almost completely separated from their emotions. Yet ultimately, it's an examination of modern masculinity, and how it can often emphasize self-critique. Guys growing up in middle-upper class society are given a doctrine that they're not permitted to display emotion - instead channeling it into humor, passion, or even violence.
That's at least the view MbtS takes, and it's easy to see how people could be completely disconnected from that worldview. But since a lot of the people who critique film can relate to it, it's charting high on year-end lists.
I realise that Hail Caesar's release date hurt its chances I think more so than being a comedy (I don't see it being nominated) but what I'm trying to say is that if the intention of a filmmaker is to win an Oscar they are unlikely to pursue that goal by making a genre picture. The fact that it happens to play to the Academy's taste does not make it Oscar bait unless this was done deliberately. Which is possible but I think doubtful (again) because of the genre it belongs to. I don't think The Artist for example was Oscar bait by intention either but it happened to have the right ingredients to win one.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Talk that shit Sam.
Messofanego
Banned
Moonlight also deals with masculinity and men hiding emotions. Manchester isn't the only sad movie in this awards race. Both films are about sad men.
Spoilers for both films:
You would think that Moonlight would have a slight edge with voters for its positive and optimistic ending, though I suppose the ending to Manchester by the Sea isn't exactly a sad one.
UberTag
Member
You know what else came out in February? The Grand Budapest Hotel.
Still managed to win 4 Oscars and get nominated for 5 others.
Grand Budepest Hotel came out in March, with a platform release peaking in April. The Berlin Premiere doesn't count, or September would be the most prestigious month for films
Films in the first half of the year can get nominated for best picture, and even win (look at Crash), but they are less likely to do so.
Perfect Blue
Banned
Anything with Eddie Redmayne, tbh.
Anything with Eddie Redmayne or Jared Leto.
Looking forward to those Fantastic Beasts and Suicide Squad nominations next month!
Aizen.S.Kennedy
Banned
And the winner of best forehead tattoo goes to......
i think it's childish to refuse to relate to a narrative like that. tolstoy sucks cuz it's just rich russians in the past. idiotic.
however we have a huge problem with diversity of stories getting onto our cinema screens. it would be very hard for a story like manchester by the sea about death, family, and existential sadness to get its audience without the cast consisting largely of white people. it's like how i can't imagine a black wes anderson getting financed. like someone with his quirky style, melancholic characters and visual invention except nearly all the cast aren't white. the hipster audience wouldn't turn up. a black nebraska. never happening. black inside llewyn davis. nope nope. black her. get out of here.
black stories on screen seem largely to consist of historical or modern racial injustice so white arthouse audiences can congratulate themselves on how woke they are for watching, while ignoring that black people experience all the same varieties of life that the great films have always captured. i'm excited about seeing moonlight but it's a) exception that shows the void and b) is very much being marketed as black and gay two inequalities for the price of one.
however we have a huge problem with diversity of stories getting onto our cinema screens. it would be very hard for a story like manchester by the sea about death, family, and existential sadness to get its audience without the cast consisting largely of white people. it's like how i can't imagine a black wes anderson getting financed. like someone with his quirky style, melancholic characters and visual invention except nearly all the cast aren't white. the hipster audience wouldn't turn up. a black nebraska. never happening. black inside llewyn davis. nope nope. black her. get out of here.
black stories on screen seem largely to consist of historical or modern racial injustice so white arthouse audiences can congratulate themselves on how woke they are for watching, while ignoring that black people experience all the same varieties of life that the great films have always captured. i'm excited about seeing moonlight but it's a) exception that shows the void and b) is very much being marketed as black and gay two inequalities for the price of one.
Discotheque
Banned
It really does. But Manchester by the Sea is amazing so to hell with that sam Jackson is saying.
And both it and moonlight are like basically 100 percent certain of getting nominated at this point too.
And in regards to Eddie Redmayne, theory of everything was crap. Just very dull biopic filmmaking (probably only topped by imitation game that year). But his Stephen Hawking was a really impressive portrayal.
Discotheque
Banned
Nah script is pretty great too. I could see Moonlight winning best supporting actor, Manchester best actor and script, and because of the whole love letter to musicals La La Land getting best picture
Pretty decent spread. Have no idea who gets best director tho.
tearsintherain
Member
Love Sam Jackson for keeping it real, I remember reading he does so many movies because he just picks movies he would have loved as a kid. I'm still pretty much a kid when it comes to movies, while occasionally I'll watch a "serious" movie and be blown away by it, 99/100 times I prefer the action/adventure/scifi "that made my eyes get SO BIG!" kind of movie that will usually find Sam Jackson in it.
Manchester by the Sea and Moonlight both are movies that I can appreciate how other people would like, but I will never, ever watch either one. Too sad / real / depressing for my tastes. Probably explains though why I don't watch 90% of oscar nominations.
Manchester by the Sea and Moonlight both are movies that I can appreciate how other people would like, but I will never, ever watch either one. Too sad / real / depressing for my tastes. Probably explains though why I don't watch 90% of oscar nominations.
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