The electoral college needs to go. It's archaic and impedes democracy.
Sanders campaign requests removal of 2 DNC members, threatens to halt convention
- Thread starter BreezyLimbo
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TheSaddestSort
Member
If anything I tend to agree with just ignoring it. Bernie has no chance of winning, and he's successfully alienated the people he would need the support of in order to steal the convention. Rather than give him perceived legitimacy and continued relevancy by engaging with him, I'd rather she shift her attention towards the general election.
OuterLimits
Member
Trump won his side though. Bernie is more like Cruz, not realizing he should be exiting the stage. Hell, even Cruz figured it out after Indiana(or more likely the money ran out)
Wafflecakes
Member
Maybe you should compare the establishment to Hitler next?
excelsiorlef
Member
1) Socialist is still a dirty word, no one has really even bothered going after him for it because Clinton can't afford to look negative because people already think she's Lucifer incarnate for various reasons that are mostly ridiculous.
Fact is Sanders couldn't properly defend the term or the ideals against a question Univision asked about the failure of socialist states in Latin American. He completely side stepped it and had no answer, or if he did he chose not to give it because it'd be bad on the news cycle, which proves either wya that the word is still very much a dirty word (which is unfortunate)
2) Voter turn out is down, not up, Clinton last time I checked was on pace to match her popular vote totals from 08, whereas Sanders is several million behind not just Clinton of 16 but Clinton of 08 as well.
3) Calling out corruption in government becomes fucking meaningless when you yell it every time Clinton wins a fucking State.
Wafflecakes
Member
I don't disagree.
However, your point about the duopoly being indicative of corruption is fantasy.
Frozenprince
Banned
I just can't get over him shitting on Barney Frank.
Barney Frank is who you should be aspiring to be. Because he had to compromise some of his principles and still managed to accomplish Dodd-Frank.
Like come on, this is all clearly because Frank doesn't like him on a personal level and has talked about it.
Barney Frank is who you should be aspiring to be. Because he had to compromise some of his principles and still managed to accomplish Dodd-Frank.
Like come on, this is all clearly because Frank doesn't like him on a personal level and has talked about it.
excelsiorlef
Member
A constitutional necessity.
Plenty of people do that already. I can understand people getting uppity if I said our political system is this country's greatest fallacy since Slavery or something in that vein. But I didn't so you can keep beating the issue or take my word that I was citing slavery for a specific reason.
The Lone Courier
Member
Talk about a fall from grace. Insteading of bowing out with class, using his popularity to bringing exposure to down ticket canidates and bolstering the democratic party he instead decides to be a sore loser and try to rip it apart.
It almost makes you wish there was a Democratic Debate for California so this shit would be acknowledged.
Almost.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the impression I got from Bernie and his supporters is that Dodd-Frank is tainted compromised garbage and needs to be changed to Glass-Steagall immediately and there is no middle ground.
Same for universal health care and Obamacare, or $15 and variable-$12 minimum wage, etc.
googleplex
Member
What kind of a world is it when Ted -fucking-Cruz has more class, grace and common sense then Bernie Sanders? I don't like living in that kind of world.
Frozenprince
Banned
You're not wrong. Bernie and his ilk are ideologues to whom the very notion of compromise makes them physically ill.
Which makes him the worst candidate for president among the entire field fro the start, really.
Nah, the Republicans just didn't have a "Hillary". Cruz was so fucking vile the GOP gagging their support for him.
But hats off to the GOP for being able to eat two shit sandwichs without missing a beat.
The electoral college has only not voted with the popular vote four times (three and a half, depending on your perspective on 2000), and one of those times was a multi-party election where the electoral college hung.
Getting hung up about the electoral college is rearranging deck chairs on the Liberty. Note that in this metaphor the ship isn't about to sink, it's just full of shit.
The duopoly fuels corruption. Look at NYC's mayor who's being investigated for corruption last election cycle when he pulled strings to get more democrats elected as one example.
Trump isn't going to go after Hillary for associations with "racists" when he's actively courting them.
The reason is obvious isn't it? Ted cruz wasn't winning any primaries and Bernie sanders is. He is still attracting thousands of people in every single rally and still winning primary races. He is still getting millions of dollars from his supporters who want him to stay until the end.
He is already doing that.
Lol. Perfect.
I often wonder if electoral college passion just comes from people not liking to feel insignificant. Like the electoral college is the first thing people learn in HS govt class that teaches them we're not a pure democracy and that instills some sort of defeatism towards voting. Idk
JetBlackPanda
Member
We are talking about a election process where to decide the leaders of our country. I think it suffices at least an attempt to minimalize these anomalies. Just coughing it up to infrequent occurrence is what is full of shit.
Frozenprince
Banned
Frozenprince
Banned
Call every university on the planet and tell them you've figured out the perfect solution to democratic politics then.
"The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism." George Washinton's claim that partisanship would lead to inter-political conflict, divide the nation, and give rise to cases of tyranny. Can any of you say he's wrong?
https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/wiki/downticket
Can you elaborate on that a little please?
Democracy, like every other form of government isn't perfect. I never claimed to offer the perfect solution only incremental steps toward a more perfect model.
Why does not wanting compromise on key issues make you an ideologue? Have we changed definitions now or what?
Macho Madness
Member
Bernie has the right to do whatever he wants. I just wish his approach was different.
What you're failing to understand is what people are concerned about. It's not that Bernie is in the race or winning primaries that bothers anyone. Nobody cares about that. What bothers people is that Bernie has been running a sloppy campaign that's had more holes in it than swiss cheese yet he gets away with it because "gosh isn't he great?"
Then, he has the audacity to threaten Trump on us by causing chaos at the convention. I know you live in The Old World but in the new one, we have a little something called turnout. When intraparty fighting happens, turnout gets depressed. That would cause us to have President Donald J Trump who might just nuke The Old World when he finally discovers the War of 1812 in a CNN special.
So excuse me for thinking the Bernie Sanders campaign has gone off the rails. It did a while ago. He can be in the race. But cut the shit.
TheSaddestSort
Member
I don't know, I feel more insignificant when I contemplate that my one vote is out of a pool of over 146 million nationally registered voters in the US. But I've voted in every single one since I was old enough.
Wafflecakes
Member
Precisely how is that caused by the two party system?
Frozenprince
Banned
Sticking your head in the sand and saying "$15 Min wage or nothing" "Free tuition or nothing" "Free universal health care or nothing".
Yes. That makes you an ideologue.
Welcome to politics, you need to compromise on your ideals to get shit done.
Macho Madness
Member
TheSaddestSort
Member
There's a difference between not compromising values and saying, "Fuck it, if I can't have something exactly this way, blow it all up 'cause it's a piece of shit!"
Frozenprince
Banned
This election man I swear to god.
We desperately need better Poli Sci education in this country.
"The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism."
Party interest first often at the cost of a open democratic process. Where both sides are willing to toe the grey/area to beat the other side.
Yeah. I guess coming from a locked red state I personally just see a lot of people unenthusiastic to vote (and no they're not swayed by downballot importance).
OuterLimits
Member
Democrats shouldn't mind the electoral college. It still gives them the advantage with big states like NY and California going blue, with only Texas on the red side to counter.
Besides, it is never going to disappear. It would take a constitutional amendment with 3/4 of the states agreeing.
No way in hell the smaller states would agree.
Besides, it is never going to disappear. It would take a constitutional amendment with 3/4 of the states agreeing.
No way in hell the smaller states would agree.
Trump has played the "hypocrite card" plenty of times - and this is just another one. We can agree to disagree on whether he'll use it or not.
Did people not see how he expected Hillary to match every single step of his platform verbatim in order for him to be satisfied? He's the definition of an ideologue. He does not compromise.
whyamihere
Banned
Still wondering for a good answer for this.
excelsiorlef
Member
Do I care? Does it change what I said?
Should have created a constitution that didn't create a de facto requirement for a two party system and make it basically impossible to amend.
Frozenprince
Banned
I mean here we have the crux of things.
You can't neuter the smaller states, because why even have a national election then. Hold it on the East and West coast and Texas and call it a day.
Wafflecakes
Member
So are you going to answer the question or just pretend to while hiding behind a quote that is only vaguely related?
In a hypothetical US where we ditch a two party system, how would the multi party system prevent the abuses you described?
That can happen in any political system with parties and people who hold similar values and goals. A duopoly isnt more inherently corrupt than another system
He is wrong because the inner political conflict that divides the nation already exists. Parties don't create that conflict. They are simply a reflection of it.
The idea that if parties didn't exist then politics would be all sunshine and lolipops is just naive to the extreme.
And Washington's Farewell Address is basically a political attack against the Jeffersonian Republicans
The answer is in the email
TheSaddestSort
Member
Yeah that's a rough situation. I also make sure to take the time to research the people running for local positions and local propositions. Paradoxically, it's usually a heck of a lot harder to find good info on the county issues versus ones on the state and national level.
whyamihere
Banned
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