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[Carnby]

Dude come the fuck on

He made a huge gross mistake and appolgized. I just think wiping him from WWE history is not the right approach. He needs to be rehabilitated, not shunned.

Edit: You're changing the subject. Police brutality is not, and should not be compared to sexual assault. Which is an absolutely vile comparison.

 

[CrimsonCommie]

He made a huge gross mistake and appolgized. I just think wiping him from WWE history is not the right approach. He needs to be rehabilitated, not shunned.

Edit: You're changing the subject. Police brutality is not, and should not be compared to sexual assault. Which is an absolutely vile comparison.

Fucking disgusting dude. Like I said you're a racist sympathizer.


No you changed the subject. This topic is about Sandra Bland and nobody compared those two crimes. The comparison is the victim blaming but you know that cause it's already been said multiple times. You just don't care.

 

[Carnby]

Fucking disgusting dude. Like I said you're a racist sympathizer.

You are disgusting and intellectually dishonest for accusing me of such gross and vile behavior. Excuse me for believing in rehabilitation.

 

[Speevy]

Hulkamania has run wild, all the way into this thread.

 

[CrimsonCommie]

You are disgusting and intellectually dishonest for accusing me of such gross and vile behavior. Excuse me for believing in rehabilitation.

You ignore everything that's about you derailing the thread and how nobody was comparing police brutality with rape and how you're sympathizing with racists but I'm the dishonest one? Ok.

 

[Carnby]

You ignore everything that's about you derailing the thread and how nobody was comparing police brutality and how you're sympathizing with racists but I'm the dishonest one? Ok.

Patently false rhetorical questions and sickening vapid accusations are often used by intellectually dishonest people. So, yes.

 

[CrimsonCommie]

Patently false rhetorical questions and sickening vapid accusations are often used by intellectually dishonest people. So, yes.

Is not an accusation it's the truth unless somebody hijacked your account to sympathize with racists. But go ahead and keep derailing the thread with your nonsense I'm done replying to you. This is the reason I stopped posting in these kinds of threads.

 

[hey_monkey]

I see that the main poster doing so is banned, but please can anyone explain how it's disgusting to make this comparison:

-at times, officers of the law have criminally abused and/or killed Black people in America (which they frequently get away with, for a variety of reasons), and the victims are often accused of bringing it on themselves
-at times, men have criminally sexually assaulted women (a crime they frequently get away with, for a variety of reasons), and the victims are often accused of bringing it on themselves

Are the crimes equivalent? No.
So what is?

• Crimes are committed by groups in power
• System of power protects groups in power
• Victims blamed after the fact

I know emotions are high but can we scale back from the name-calling, which doesn't help anyone here?

 

[Idba]

People still saying he just made a mistake.

Sigh

 

[NervousXtian]

Please say the bolded some more. NervousXtian in particular needs to hear it.

Can you stop being this way? I never said you can't fix the issue with police. I said follow lawful orders, and being respectful to police probably get's you in less issues than being disrespectful.

I mean, you attack me like that's an extreme viewpoint.

We really should ban the use of the term "victim blaming" when it's going to be used like it is in this thread, it's like the new Godwin on Neogaf, meant to stop discussion than further it.

 

[YoungHav]

Rather disgusted by some FB posts (from black males on my feed as well) blaming Sandra and saying she should have been the bigger person. No blame on the officer.

 

[Aurongel]

You're the one that came into this thread and started talking about some bullshit completely unrelated and trying to downplay police brutality. You haven't mentioned Sandra Bland once. And I'm the one that's disgusting? No the only disgusting one here is the one that's a racist sympathizer.

Also how is comparing victim blaming of different crimes disgusting?

To be fair, the conversation in this thread has moved onto larger concepts than just the suicide of Bland.

 

[Train of Midnight]

relevant.

The shoe fits, to me.

 

[The Artisan]

alright, I heard there is an independent autopsy going on which her family requested so I want o ask, is it possible we will get a different story on her cause of death? or is the evidence behind suicide conclusive?

 

[Nivash]

alright, I heard there is an independent autopsy going on which her family requested so I want o ask, is it possible we will get a different story on her cause of death? or is the evidence behind suicide conclusive?

Unless the coroner made a huge mistake and missed something critical, I don't see how. They only released snippets from the conclusion but it fits the bill. Signs consistent with self-asphyxiation and no evidence of any other external trauma.

I guess you could argue that the coroner is in on a conspiracy, but that's tinfoil hat territory.

 

[The Artisan]

Unless the coroner made a huge mistake and missed something critical, I don't see how. They only released snippets from the conclusion but it fits the bill. Signs consistent with self-asphyxiation and no evidence of any other external trauma.

I guess you could argue that the coroner is in on a conspiracy, but that's tinfoil hat territory.

in other words, she definitely killed herself

 

[akira28]

Patently false rhetorical questions and sickening vapid accusations are often used by intellectually dishonest people. So, yes.

I read all these "super upset" replies with an Edwardian English accent.

Anyway, just because she wasn't beaten to death or isn't covered in defensive wounds doesn't conclude that suicide is the only possibility. It only shows that she wasn't beaten to death, and isn't covered in defensive wounds.

 

[Nivash]

in other words, she definitely killed herself

Sure looks that way. With all the other supporting evidence including the previous attempts she reported herself and the old self-inflicted injuries noticed during the autopsy it's difficult to draw any other conclusion. The jail aren't completely guiltless though - they may be innocent of murder but they showed great lapses in responsibility when they didn't put her on suicide watch and didn't consult a psychiatric professional to assess her.

 

[akira28]

Sure looks that way. With all the other supporting evidence including the previous attempts she reported herself and the old self-inflicted injuries noticed during the autopsy it's difficult to draw any other conclusion. The jail aren't completely guiltless though - they may be innocent of murder but they showed great lapses in responsibility when they didn't put her on suicide watch and didn't consult a psychiatric professional to assess her.

One past attempt claimed in their jail records, I believe. And then superficial wounds on her arms, (since you don't kill yourself by cutting on your arms unless you make a really big, long, deep cut, with purpose). I don't think that's enough to close the case on this idea that she was suddenly suicidal after 3 days in jail.

 

[Nivash]

One past attempt claimed in their jail records, I believe. And then superficial wounds on her arms, (since you don't kill yourself by cutting on your arms unless you make a really big, long, deep cut, with purpose). I don't think that's enough to close the case on this idea that she was suddenly suicidal after 3 days in jail.

It puts her in the highest risk group, though. The last attempt was sometime this year and even if self-harm isn't the same thing as a suicide attempt (it's usually not) it indicates a self-destructive tendency. But that's just supportive evidence. The autopsy was perfectly consistent with suicide and in the way the jail staff found her. Like I said, the only way this isn't a suicide at this point is if the coroner is in on a conspiracy or made some kind of massive error.

It doesn't really matter if it seems logical or not, all the evidence is pointing in the same direction: she suffered from depression or some other underlying condition that made her take her own life.

 

[akira28]

It doesn't really matter if it seems logical or not, all the evidence is pointing in the same direction: she suffered from depression or some other underlying condition that made her take her own life.

If it doesn't seem logical, and all the evidence arrived from Santa Claus, I'm going be skeptical.

Coroner doesn't have to be in on anything. Their job is to see what evidence is available, not really attribution. We're just assuming the neck trauma consistent with asphyxiation was self-inflicted by Sandra.

and if you want to talk about risk groups...she was already in a doozy of a risk group, driving while black in Texas, with out of state tags, and a send of self-dignity.

 

[Quote]

I've been pulled over for minor, waste of time things, and I'm obviously irritable to the officer. Because I'm irritated. I'm irritated just thinking about it. I have no reason to empathize with them, I only have to be Compliant Enough.

But also I'm white so I get away with these things, like all people should.

 

[akira28]

was listening to the radio Friday. Former police officer and training instructor was talking about how the officer seems to have lied in his report. He states in his report that he arrested Sandra Bland because she assaulted him (with a kick) and resisted arrest. He was pointing out that the sequence of events on the camera don't support his account, because 1) she does eventually comply with his legal order to exit the vehicle. where 2) she is immediately placed under arrest, without explanation of her offense. 3)This is where the "assault" comes into play where she is taken down and at this point another female officer is on the scene. At no point are we able to see any assault or resistance on the part of Bland other than her words, and coincidentally, she has been maneuvered to a place where the cameras can't see. And this is where she complains of having her head bashed into the ground, and having her arm twisted so hard she thinks it's broken. And he's explaining why he has to do these things, because she is "resisting".

So he goes on further to talk about how the officer calls radios in to explain his actions on the stop and how he was kicked, essentially establishing the narrative, or "getting his story straight". He talks about how he claims he consistently tried to de-escalate, and then the host talks about how he trained police to de-escalate, and that isn't what he hears in the video. What actually takes place is the wrongful extension of a routine traffic stop, due to her having an attitude, which is completely legal. And police officers are trained to be respectful and professional even when being cursed at. The officer said that when she refused to put her cigarette out, he "sensed something was wrong" and had her exit the vehicle.

Believe it or not, police don't have the right to tell you to put out your cigarette. But they can set up a "pick up that can" situation if they want to.

anyway, I hope this all comes out in the wash. but I'm not holding my breath. This is the land of the free, after all.

 

[Nivash]

If it doesn't seem logical, and all the evidence arrived from Santa Claus, I'm going be skeptical.

Coroner doesn't have to be in on anything. Their job is to see what evidence is available, not really attribution. We're just assuming the neck trauma consistent with asphyxiation was self-inflicted by Sandra.

and if you want to talk about risk groups...she was already in a doozy of a risk group, driving while black in Texas, with out of state tags, and a send of self-dignity.

If she had been hanged against her will there would have been more damage and defensive wounds. Bruises, scratches, fractures or greater soft tissue damage to her neck. Everything suggests that the process was slow asphyxiation with no struggle. The coroner specifically mentioned the lack of any counter-evidence. She would have had to be drugged to be killed in that way and that would have showed up in the tox screen - the coroner even mentioned detecting traces of THC, any debilitating drug would have popped.

 

[akira28]

If she had been hanged against her will there would have been more damage and defensive wounds. Bruises, scratches, fractures or greater soft tissue damage to her neck. Everything suggests that the process was slow asphyxiation with no struggle. The coroner specifically mentioned the lack of any counter-evidence. She would have had to be drugged to be killed in that way and that would have showed up in the tox screen - the coroner even mentioned detecting traces of THC, any debilitating drug would have popped.

this is the assumption, clearly. it's also not true.

 

[Nivash]

this is the assumption, clearly. it's also not true.

How do you suggest you hang someone who is conscious against their will without them struggling?

 

[akira28]

How do you suggest you hang someone who is conscious against their will without them struggling?

there are lots of ways to stun someone, or to subdue them with minimal struggle and minimal damage. You think the only scenario was some MMA cage match where she would be allowed to fight for her life as some gang places a plastic noose around her neck?

 

[The Artisan]

if they killed her...why? I mean, it can't be true, it just can't. The official story concludes with her suicide but if they killed her

Spoiler

definitely not saying they did because as fucked up as this whole situation is...

then that is just fucking evil.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

there are lots of ways to stun someone, or to subdue them with minimal struggle and minimal damage. You think the only scenario was some MMA cage match where she would be allowed to fight for her life as some gang places a plastic noose around her neck?

You know you're being crazy, right? The evidence suggests suicide. Your only evidence she was murdered is she's black.

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

there are lots of ways to stun someone, or to subdue them with minimal struggle and minimal damage. You think the only scenario was some MMA cage match where she would be allowed to fight for her life as some gang places a plastic noose around her neck?

Was the cell mate next door bought off? How many jail personnel would have been needed to pull this off? If ms bland was in fear for her life at the jail, would she not have told someone that in her phone calls home? I believe some of the jail staff on duty at the time were black, were they in on it as well?

 

[Idba]

You know you're being crazy, right? The evidence suggests suicide. Your only evidence she was murdered is she's black.

Giving examples on how to subdue is being crazy?

Personaly I think there is something we arent told considering her mugshot was taken while laying on the floor in a orange jumpsuit which the department havent done before (that I know of)

Maybe I'm just grasping at thins straws, maybe not

 

[Nivash]

there are lots of ways to stun someone, or to subdue them with minimal struggle and minimal damage. You think the only scenario was some MMA cage match where she would be allowed to fight for her life as some gang places a plastic noose around her neck?

All of that would leave visual marks. Even holding someone down would be enough to create visible bruising. I'm sorry, but there's just no evidence for that. You've locked on to the fact that the arrest was made for no real reason, that she was black and that her family doesn't believe it's suicide - but these things happen. There are far more suicides in jail than murder.

That's a travesty. Bland getting arrested for failing to signal a lane change and killing herself in jail is a travesty. But it's not murder.

 

[Kal_El]

I have no idea if it has been posted yet but here is anonymous video about Sandra Bland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0F-MhNLyDo

 

[OraleeWey]

Here's a little video you should see...
http://youtu.be/IS5mwymTIJU

Jesu's Christ man... it never ends does it?

 

[Kal_El]

Was the cell mate next door bought off? How many jail personnel would have been needed to pull this off? If ms bland was in fear for her life at the jail, would she not have told someone that in her phone calls home? I believe some of the jail staff on duty at the time were black, were they in on it as well?

What I believe happened is that she died, unexpectedly for some reason or another she died. The guards knew how much trouble they would be in so they hung her with the trash bag. That's why there's no defensive wounds. Only reason I think this is because in her cell there was a garbage bag back in the can. Why would there be in photos if she used it on herself.

Maybe it's nonsense but I think that something happened and they're covering for each other.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

was listening to the radio Friday. Former police officer and training instructor was talking about how the officer seems to have lied in his report. He states in his report that he arrested Sandra Bland because she assaulted him (with a kick) and resisted arrest. He was pointing out that the sequence of events on the camera don't support his account, because 1) she does eventually comply with his legal order to exit the vehicle. where 2) she is immediately placed under arrest, without explanation of her offense. 3)This is where the "assault" comes into play where she is taken down and at this point another female officer is on the scene. At no point are we able to see any assault or resistance on the part of Bland other than her words, and coincidentally, she has been maneuvered to a place where the cameras can't see. And this is where she complains of having her head bashed into the ground, and having her arm twisted so hard she thinks it's broken. And he's explaining why he has to do these things, because she is "resisting".

So he goes on further to talk about how the officer calls radios in to explain his actions on the stop and how he was kicked, essentially establishing the narrative, or "getting his story straight". He talks about how he claims he consistently tried to de-escalate, and then the host talks about how he trained police to de-escalate, and that isn't what he hears in the video. What actually takes place is the wrongful extension of a routine traffic stop, due to her having an attitude, which is completely legal. And police officers are trained to be respectful and professional even when being cursed at. The officer said that when she refused to put her cigarette out, he "sensed something was wrong" and had her exit the vehicle.

Believe it or not, police don't have the right to tell you to put out your cigarette. But they can set up a "pick up that can" situation if they want to.

anyway, I hope this all comes out in the wash. but I'm not holding my breath. This is the land of the free, after all.

It's circular reasoning that allows these kinds of confrontations to end the way they do.

If a cop places you under arrest, takes a cheap shot at you, barges into your home, pulls a gun on you, chokes you, or slams you around unprovoked or without explanation, and you react defensively, you are now "resisting arrest", which makes all the aforementioned cheap shots and any further damage (up to and including death) your fault.

Sandra was arrested and restricted by $500 bond ostensibly because she complained about being arrested for nothing, which is in and of itself an arrestable offense. It's pretty gross when you think about it.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Giving examples on how to subdue is being crazy?

Personaly I think there is something we arent told considering her mugshot was taken while laying on the floor in a orange jumpsuit which the department havent done before (that I know of)

Maybe I'm just grasping at thins straws, maybe not

It's the point of ignoring evidence and saying things like, "well you can subdue someone this way!" You follow the evidence, you don't come up with scenarios that fit your answer.

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

What I believe happened is that she died, unexpectedly for some reason or another she died. The guards knew how much trouble they would be in so they hung her with the trash bag. That's why there's no defensive wounds. Only reason I think this is because in her cell there was a garbage bag back in the can. Why would there be in photos if she used it on herself.

Maybe it's nonsense but I think that something happened and they're covering for each other.

i could definitely see the jail trying that move. I would expect the autopsy to be able to determine pre or post Mortem strangulation marks though. Maybe if they found her as she was dying the coroner couldn't be able to tell the difference, dunno.

 

[hey_monkey]

If it was suicide, and the evidence we have does seem to lean that way, and they knew she was a risk, the jail personnel are still facing major issues because of the way she was handled (not observed, not proper care taken, etc.). That's also a symptom of systemic problems with the justice system.

 

[Nivash]

What I believe happened is that she died, unexpectedly for some reason or another she died. The guards knew how much trouble they would be in so they hung her with the trash bag. That's why there's no defensive wounds. Only reason I think this is because in her cell there was a garbage bag back in the can. Why would there be in photos if she used it on herself.

Maybe it's nonsense but I think that something happened and they're covering for each other.

If she died for any other reason that would have left evidence as well. An autopsy is conducted to establish cause of death as well as detecting signs that a crime has been committed. Hanging a dead body would also leave different marks than someone who was alive hanging themselves.

I have no idea why the trash bag was replaced but I think using that as an indication of foul play is taking things a bit too far. There could be a thousand innocuous reasons for why that happened. Taking small anomalies like that to build a case is precisely have conspiracy theories are born.

If it was suicide, and the evidence we have does seem to lean that way, and they knew she was a risk, the jail personnel are still facing major issues because of the way she was handled (not observed, not proper care taken, etc.). That's also a symptom of systemic problems with the justice system.

I hope there are consequences for this. They clearly failed in their duties, they might even be criminally negligent. There are procedures to be followed with at-risk prisoners and they had all the proof they needed that she was at risk right in her arrest form: recent suicide attempt. The family might have a good civil case for damages here if nothing else. One of the reasons I'm arguing against the murder conspiracy theory is that it's obfuscating the real tragedy: that she ended up arrested for what was originally a trivial offence and then killed herself because she couldn't get bail and wasn't looked after in jail. All of these systemic failures need to be brought to light.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

How about regardless of those anomalies that a DA and police organization handling this situation the way they do is how conspiracy theories are born. How about for an otherwise fine black woman to be treated like this then days later to be dead makes people come up with theories.

The cops have their bullshit but you want to be incensed about anyone who might have a different idea.

Like I wrote above I'm worried that this will just go away if we end up with a baseless conspiracy theory on one side and the county claiming they did no wrong on the other. The conspiracy theory needs to die so that we can get some room for the actual travesties you mentioned: a fine black woman being treated to shit and driven to suicide.

 

[LCGeek]

I have no idea why the trash bag was replaced but I think using that as an indication of foul play is taking things a bit too far. There could be a thousand innocuous reasons for why that happened. Taking small anomalies like that to build a case is precisely have conspiracy theories are born.

How about regardless of those anomalies that a DA and police organization handling this situation the way they do is how conspiracy theories are born. How about for an otherwise fine black woman to be treated like she was upon being arrested then days later to be dead makes people come up with theories.

The cops have their bullshit but you want to be incensed about anyone who might have a different idea.

 

[Kite]

How about for an otherwise fine black woman to be treated like she was upon being arrested then days later to be dead makes people come up with theories.

She did have approximately 30 "cut marks," on her left wrist, according to Diepraam, which were in a state of healing.

Separately, an inmate who was held in a cell adjacent to Bland told CNN she did not hear any commotion or screaming that would suggest foul play before the 28-year-old woman was found dead.

The woman said Bland wasn't eating, and was emotional, and often crying during her three days in the jail. She was also stressed about missing her first day of work at her new job, said Alexandria Pyle.

"She found out her bond was $5,000, and no one -- she was calling and calling -- and no one was answering, and then after that she just broke down. She was crying and crying," Pyle said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/23/us/sandra-bland-arrest-death-main/

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/23/us/sandra-bland-arrest-death-main/

Why did none of her friends or family answer her calls?

Also, that's pretty damn sad that cops throw a person in jail who just found a new job for some petty reason like not signaling when changing lanes.

 

[Coins]

Why did none of her friends or family answer her calls?

Also, that's pretty damn sad that cops throw a person in jail who just found a new job for some petty reason like not signaling when changing lanes.

Maybe they thought a few days in jail would be good for her?

 

[akira28]

You know you're being crazy, right? The evidence suggests suicide. Your only evidence she was murdered is she's black.

I'm not saying what happened to her in jail, and I'm not saying by whom anything happened. I'm just saying that I'm skeptical of the evidence because of its sourcing, and a lot of the circumstantial details have nothing to do with anything except lending to the leap in logic that she killed herself when she could have gotten out and had a case for a lawsuit. She had everything going for her, and she killed herself over an argument with a police officer? It isn't logical, it isn't linear, so it allows room for skepticism, and therefore, I wouldn't trust attribution of the evidence unless it was directly sourced and verifiable. There is no trust here. If they had a report that said the sky was blue, I would want to look outside for myself.

I'd want their records pulled. I want to know their record on race, who they pull over for what, the staties and the locals in that area. I want to know that trooper's record for pulling people over for failure to turn-signal, I would want to know the history of the jail and the sheriff's dept. Why? Because this doesn't seem so open and shut to me, but everyone seems to want to lead the elephant out the door. 'Oh she was a cutter, oh she swallowed some pills after a miscarriage once.' She had too much going for her. And if she had a mental health break, I want to know what exactly happened to her and how.

All of that would leave visual marks. Even holding someone down would be enough to create visible bruising. I'm sorry, but there's just no evidence for that. You've locked on to the fact that the arrest was made for no real reason, that she was black and that her family doesn't believe it's suicide - but these things happen. There are far more suicides in jail than murder.

That's a travesty. Bland getting arrested for failing to signal a lane change and killing herself in jail is a travesty. But it's not murder.

this is your assumption, I'm guessing. You can restrain someone without bruising. And she was covered in bruises and scabs and contusions from her arrest, anyway.

you don't know what I'm locked onto, either. And you have no idea how many murders occur in jail. Do you know why? Would you like to assume?

 

[Kal_El]

Maybe they thought a few days in jail would be good for her?

What??? Believe it or not $500 is a lot for many people and the fact that they were in Illinois maybe complicated the matter....smh

 

[Nivash]

this is your assumption, I'm guessing. You can restrain someone without bruising. And she was covered in bruises and scabs and contusions from her arrest, anyway.

you don't know what I'm locked onto, either. And you have no idea how many murders occur in jail. Do you know why? Would you like to assume?

Considering that I haven't seen her body yes, it's somewhat based on assumptions, but I do actually have some forensic medical training. Based on the snips from the autopsy report I'm reasonably confident in saying that the coroner should have spotted signs of murder. It's very difficult to restrain someone who is fighting back without bruising them and these would be distinctive from the minor injuries sustained during the arrest.

As for what you personally has locked onto then yes, that would be an assumption. All I can say about that is that you're currently pushing the "reasonable doubt" angel pretty hard and seem to be hinting at it being something other than a suicide. Again though, that's just my impression.

The murder vs suicide in jail angel is not an assumption however. Both are tracked statistically and and suicide is one of the leading causes of death in jail by far after illness - it accounts for more than half of all death, more than overdosing, murders and accidents combined.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/s...cide-overdoses-accidents-combined-f8C11072563

Unless you suggest that roughly half of those suicides are covered-up murders I don't think there's much disputing that fact.

 

[Coins]

What??? Believe it or not $500 is a lot for many people and the fact that they were in Illinois maybe complicated the matter....smh

You realize they wouldn't even answer her call. If it was just money then why wouldn't they talk to her?

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

She had everything going for her, and she killed herself over an argument with a police officer?

By all mean be skeptical of the police and authorities, but this notion that have she had everything going for is from her family and loved ones, in other words, folks who have every incentive to place the deceased in the best light possible or alternatively folks who may be in denial or unaware of possible mental illness and related issues. How often have we heard from the relatives and friends things that turned out to be either patently false or subjected to a serious amount of spin? How many parents of suicide victims had no idea that their children were suffering?

What??? Believe it or not $500 is a lot for many people and the fact that they were in Illinois maybe complicated the matter....smh

I've represented more than a few people who refused to bond their kids out using that justification, it is a real smh moment. Happens far more with juveniles than adults, at least in my experience.

 

[akira28]

Considering that I haven't seen her body yes, it's somewhat based on assumptions, but I do actually have some forensic medical training. Based on the snips from the autopsy report I'm reasonably confident in saying that the coroner should have spotted signs of murder. It's very difficult to restrain someone who is fighting back without bruising them and these would be distinctive from the minor injuries sustained during the arrest.

Unless you suggest that roughly half of those suicides are covered-up murders I don't think there's much disputing that fact.

You're assuming she would struggle or be able to fight.

I'd say the murders committed by or involving prison staff probably have a reporting issue that could potentially overlap into the suicide statistics.

By all mean be skeptical of the police and authorities, but this notion that have she had everything going for is from her family and loved ones, in other words, folks who have every incentive to place the deceased in the best light possible or alternatively folks who may be in denial or unaware of possible mental illness and related issues. How often have we heard from the relatives and friends things that turned out to be either patently false or subjected to a serious amount of spin? How many parents of suicide victims had no idea that their children were suffering?

there is nothing to lead us to her being suicidal other than evidence of a previously stressed, and now currently dead black girl. We don't have to cast her in any light ourselves. She was angry, a fighter speaking about rights and lawsuits, then she was completely subdued and no longer eating, and by this point they were only in contact with her via intercom? I'd be more skeptical of the jail and sheriff and troopers than I would be of the family. She had faced adversity and was on the ascent. Missing her first day at work would have been seriously stressful, but this?