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[blu]

Since I'm genuinely interested in the things I've asked BluePumpkin7 about, here's on the subject of divorces in SA:

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/per...nt-has-been-brewing-for-years-says-head-.html

See? Shariah could be way too liberal to women!..

Being the wife, you just pay back your husband's expenditures accumulated over the duration your marriage, and you're free to go. I mean, Khula* 'being on the rise', 2K women have filed for a divorce this year (please note the wording - 'Khula cases' - how many of those have been granted by the judge is not clear). Out of a population of 27M, that's really.. something.

* divorce.

 

[televator]

This is sick, but it doesn't surprise me that the US gov isn't phased by being allies to this. We blow people up indiscriminately, we abduct and torture people. Saudi Arabia and Israel are the allies we deserve judging by our own actions.

 

[CornBurrito]

Idk Bluepumpkin. As a gay male who wants to marry someday I don't think I could live in SA and have the same degree of freedom as I would in the US.

 

[Jelly Rajah]

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Oh but only 40% of UK Muslims want this Sharia legal code implemented.

Can't criticise Islam, that wouldn't be multicultural.

 

[Monocle]

Idk Bluepumpkin. As a gay male who wants to marry someday I don't think I could live in SA and have the same degree of freedom as I would in the US.

What makes you say that bro?????

 

[M.Bluth]

I have four sisters and I'm the only boy. Women right now have a long long long way to go in Saudi Arabia when it comes to women's rights (I've helped my sister drive last year in the october driving protest) so don't judge me when you don't know me, they all have/had boyfriends, I don't know about their private matters and I don't care because it's up to them. My sister got her PhD in Canada, and she dated and married a boy there, the government sponsored all of our education, and we were all basically guaranteed comfortable jobs upon graduation. we live in a big house, own four cars, and I've had my own car since I was 17, I get paid to study, and I don't worry about my future jobs or debts, In the end I don't think we would have half the things we now have if we weren't Saudi. So whatever, I'm happy to be Saudi.

Sounds like you're from a rich family, son. "don't worry about future jobs or debts" HA! Are you kidding me? A ridiculous number of Saudi youths are deep in debt and unemployed while getting shat on by the housing crisis every single day.
You're well off, so sure, be thankful, but being fine with it or pretending the rest of the country isn't in deep shit is just straight up dishonest.

This is fucked up on so many levels. Muslim or not, you have to be fucked in the head to be fine with this.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

All you Saudi haters are gonna get sued now bitches.

death penalty...man that'll teach her...so much she'll never get to apply that lesson

100 lashes? so basically he's gonna die too...

 

[Renekton]

If only alternative energy tech can progress faster so the world can stop relying on these crazy countries.

 

[rjinaz]

All you Saudi haters are gonna get sued now bitches.

death penalty...man that'll teach her...so much she'll never get to apply that lesson

100 lashes? so basically he's gonna die too...

Next up they're going to try and get Americans extradited so they can give us lashes. The scars remind you of your freedom. Ask BluePumkin 7.

 

[GSG Flash]

I have four sisters and I'm the only boy. Women right now have a long long long way to go in Saudi Arabia when it comes to women's rights (I've helped my sister drive last year in the october driving protest) so don't judge me when you don't know me, they all have/had boyfriends, I don't know about their private matters and I don't care because it's up to them. My sister got her PhD in Canada, and she dated and married a boy there, the government sponsored all of our education, and we were all basically guaranteed comfortable jobs upon graduation. we live in a big house, own four cars, and I've had my own car since I was 17, I get paid to study, and I don't worry about my future jobs or debts, In the end I don't think we would have half the things we now have if we weren't Saudi. So whatever, I'm happy to be Saudi.

Good for you.

I'm sure some North Korean elite is having the time of his life in Pyongyang, doesn't mean that North Korea isn't a shithole of a country.

And, let's be honest here, the situation you and your family are in is not at all similar to the lifestyle of the average Saudi. Your lifestyle is only common with the Saudi elite.

 

[Dark_castle]

So cruel.

 

[ZealousD]

Saudi Arabia sounds like the Islamic state that ISIS wants to develop, except that Saudi does business with the west.

ISIS doesn't want to be a nation-state like Saudi Arabia. It wants an empire. A caliphate like the Rashidun or Umayyid.

 

[shinobi602]

 

[ironcreed]

Jesus Christ. It is hard to even comprehend that there are still parts of the world that operate and think this way.

 

[Corronchilejano]

Oh but only 40% of UK Muslims want this Sharia legal code implemented.

Can't criticise Islam, that wouldn't be multicultural.

You seem to have tripped on some bullshit there buddy. Lemme help you up.

 

[Demoskinos]

Its really sad that women aren't even treated as people in many parts of the world still.

 

[The Living Tribunal]

Well I as a Saudi am saying thanks but no thanks I don't need your help. I am not sitting in my room late at night praying for for the enlightened west to save me.

The only thing online SJW bitching about Saudi Arabia is accomplishing is shifting public opinion so that when your government decides to fuck up my country they'll have no opposition and thousands of volunteers.

This is probably the most disgusting thing I've read in awhile.

 

[blu]

Its really sad that women aren't even treated as people in many parts of the world still.

Polygamous, stress-free ruling-class males == zero reason for change.

 

[Kabouter]

You seem to have tripped on some bullshit there buddy. Lemme help you up.

While certainly better, 40% wanting Sharia law for Muslims surely isn't exactly something to be cheerful about.

 

[SuperBanana]

Well I as a Saudi am saying thanks but no thanks I don't need your help. I am not sitting in my room late at night praying for for the enlightened west to save me.

The only thing online SJW bitching about Saudi Arabia is accomplishing is shifting public opinion so that when your government decides to fuck up my country they'll have no opposition and thousands of volunteers.

Being again crucifixions, beheadings, stonings, and the biggest funder of terrorism and biggest recruiter of ISIS is "SJW bitching"? Haha wow.

 

[Kenshin001]

I think the only people who like Saudi Arabia are politicians.

On the contrary many people in Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia. Their popularity has slipped the past decade or so but they are still looked on favourably despite their barbaric practices and spreading of Wahhabism.

Saudi Arabia is viewed favorably in many countries outside the Middle East where Muslims make up a substantial percentage, if not a majority, of the population. In Pakistan, for example, 95% express a favorable opinion of the Saudi kingdom, while six-in-ten or more in Indonesia, Senegal and Malaysia share this view. However, among its Muslim neighbors, opinions of Saudi Arabia are more varied. Only in Jordan and Egypt is opinion of the desert kingdom overwhelmingly positive (88% and 78%, respectively). Elsewhere in the Middle East, views are mixed or even decidedly negative, as in the case of Turkey (26% favorable vs. 53% unfavorable).

http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/10/17/saudi-arabias-image-falters-among-middle-east-neighbors/

 

[Big Green Anus]

I wish America has the balls to stop dealing with this disgusting country.

 

[velociraptor]

Boyfriends actually, multiple ones. I'm not muslim, I've made that clear multiple times, My father is a well educated liberal man, my mother doesn't wear the Hijab occasionally (she wears it around her family), and none of my sisters do. I would never want any of my sisters to marry someone they don't know, and they don't want me to marry someone I don't know, I'm sorry your family was uptight but mine isn't and a lot of families aren't.



Just a normal citizen. Giving to the poor is very important in Islam.

Is a public dress code mandated for women in Saudi Arabia?

 

[Madness]

I wish America has the balls to stop dealing with this disgusting country.

Not so long as they are the #1 oil producing country, and while they buy billions in overpriced military hardware.

 

[Buzzman]

Why are so many feminists and SJWs so concerned over how women are represented in video games when there are women getting stoned to death in other countries for being raped?

So many people in our country are so consumed by dumb shit like this that we forget that millions of other people are living in misery and would trade anything for a day to have our "problems."

Well I as a Saudi am saying thanks but no thanks I don't need your help. I am not sitting in my room late at night praying for for the enlightened west to save me.

The only thing online SJW bitching about Saudi Arabia is accomplishing is shifting public opinion so that when your government decides to fuck up my country they'll have no opposition and thousands of volunteers.

You just can't win...

 

[Novocaine]

The blatant hypocricy is infuriating. The royals live counter to all Islamic laws themselves, throwing huge parties, drinking, having sex. But they'd never face any kind of punishment themselves.

This is the case basically everywhere. Fortunately for me and I would guess most of us on this board the punishment for people without money is not as abhorrent as being stoned to death. Absolutely disgusting.

 

[Always-honest]

boy,.. The amount if stuff i have written, deleted and edited here. I get so angry when i read this.
Are there people in that region with relative humane views on women and law? Why aren't men saying these laws are fucking retarded?

 

[Mendrox]

boy,.. The amount if stuff i have written, deleted and edited here. I get so angry when i read this.
Are there people in that region with relative humane views on women and law? Why aren't men saying these laws are fucking retarded?

Of course there are these people. There even posted one in this thread, but he also said that the country tries to change and it is a long process. Stoning is bullshit and will hopefuly be getten rid of forever. Men are not saying this, because they would get fucked up by the government (which is the biggest problem) or it is not as bad as it seems for "them".

But some people in here also do not want to understand that people that live there also do not care, because they are well off. American people should really slap their own head though - allowing guns for everyone? Your country does not do shit against gun carriers which I think is way worse.

World would be a bit better if stoning gets out of the way... except for people that kill humans with guns - I would be okay with that if killers get stoned to death - I don't give a shit about those humans.

 

[Always-honest]

Of course there are these people. There even posted one in this thread, but he also said that the country tries to change and it is a long process. Stoning is bullshit and will hopefuly be getten rid of forever. Men are not saying this, because they would get fucked up by the government (which is the biggest problem) or it is not as bad as it seems for "them".

But some people in here also do not want to understand that people that live there also do not care, because they are well off. American people should really slap their own head though - allowing guns for everyone? Your country does not do shit against gun carriers which I think is way worse.

World would be a bit better if stoning gets out of the way... except for people that kill humans with guns - I would be okay with that if killers get stoned to death - I don't give a shit about those humans.

Thanx.

 

[Kenshin001]

boy,.. The amount if stuff i have written, deleted and edited here. I get so angry when i read this.
Are there people in that region with relative humane views on women and law? Why aren't men saying these laws are fucking retarded?

They are the minority.

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

The fuck? Not only are women more likely to be sentenced to death by stoning, but people can go free if they are able to escape the pit they're buried in, and women are buried deeper?

And yet they have the fucking gall to complain about being compared to ISIS?

 

[nynt9]

World would be a bit better if stoning gets out of the way... except for people that kill humans with guns - I would be okay with that if killers get stoned to death - I don't give a shit about those humans.

This is still cruel punshment though. One of the core tenets of progress is to not stoop to the level of others.

 

[Azih]

While certainly better, 40% wanting Sharia law for Muslims surely isn't exactly something to be cheerful about.

Sharia means different things to different people.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Sharia means different things to different people.

Yeah, for example:

World would be a bit better if stoning gets out of the way... except for people that kill humans with guns - I would be okay with that if killers get stoned to death - I don't give a shit about those humans.

*rolleyes*

 

[Azih]

Yeah, for example:



*rolleyes*

Okay and? Just pointing out that the poll doesn't mean too much because of the diversity of Muslim opinion on what 'Sharia' is. Especially in the West.

 

[nynt9]

Sharia means different things to different people.

Yes, and there are statistics and information on what it means to different people:

The problem is not just limited to Saudi Arabia.

Also I don't think there's a version of Sharia law that isn't a bizarre complete reinterpretation where women are considered full human beings.

 

[Azih]

Yes, and there are statistics and information on what it means to different people:



Also I don't think there's a version of Sharia law that isn't a bizarre complete reinterpretation where women are considered full human beings.

*sigh* Note that the UK isn't one of the places polled in your chart and yet it's a UK poll that started this discussion. My point is that even a little cursory look into how vague these terms are would put these polls in a far less scary light which is kinda necessary because of how terrified and Islamophobic people have become because of a word as ill defined as 'Sharia'

 

[nynt9]

*sigh* Note that the UK isn't one of the places polled in your chart and yet it's a UK poll that started this discussion. My point is that even a little cursory look into how vague these terms are would put these polls in a far less scary light which is kinda necessary because of how terrified and Islamophobic people have become because of a word as ill defined as 'Sharia'

Sharia law isn't that ill defined. It's a legal system based on the quran and some hadiths. There are degrees of bad to it, but many people object to it regardless of what version of bad it is, but because it's solely based on a religious text and not a secular law. Pretty much any version of sharia has laws against freedom of speech (blasphemy), some sort of human rights issue and freedom of religion issues.

 

[Calm waterfall]

Stoning in 2015 is a really sad state of affair. What kind of barbaric ritual is this?

 

[nib95]

Yes, and there are statistics and information on what it means to different people:

Also I don't think there's a version of Sharia law that isn't a bizarre complete reinterpretation where women are considered full human beings.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by full human beings, and what the specific laws are that prevent Women in your eyes from being full human beings, that you also think are devoid from Sharia altogether? I'd be interested to hear whether your criteria fits the Law in Muslim countries like Tunisia, Albania, Indonesia, Turkey etc.

 

[szaromir]

Yes, and there are statistics and information on what it means to different people:

Also I don't think there's a version of Sharia law that isn't a bizarre complete reinterpretation where women are considered full human beings.

Or a Christian or a Buddhist being worth a fraction a Muslim. Or oral confession of good and respected Muslims trumping physical evidence.

 

[PeregrinSe7en]

21st century ladies and gentlemen.

"22nd century ladies and gentleman"

that's what your great, great, great grandson will be saying a century from now

 

[Kinitari]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by full human beings, and what the specific laws are that prevent Women in your eyes from being full human beings, that you also think are devoid from Sharia altogether? I'd be interested to hear whether your criteria fits the Law in Muslim countries like Tunisia, Albania, Indonesia, Turkey etc.

I know I'm not him, but one thing off the top of my head is female testimony

 

[nynt9]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by full human beings, and what the specific laws are that prevent Women in your eyes from being full human beings, that you also think are devoid from Sharia altogether? I'd be interested to hear whether your criteria fits the Law in Muslim countries like Tunisia, Albania, Indonesia, Turkey etc.

Turkey does not apply sharia law. Not familiar with the other countries in detail.

As for how women are viewed in sharia, not sure if you're being disingenuous as their right to own property, susceptibility to domestic violence and more.

4:34 from the quran:
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

There's a lot more here with documented examples and citations to the law:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia#Women

There's just too much for me to personally enumerate here.

 

[nib95]

Turkey does not apply sharia law. Not familiar with the other countries in detail.

As for how women are viewed in sharia, not sure if you're being disingenuous as their right to own property, susceptibility to domestic violence and more.

4:34 from the quran:
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

There's a lot more here with documented examples and citations to the law:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia#Women

There's just too much for me to personally enumerate here.

That doesn't have anything to do with Sharia law itself, but since you used wiki, here is the excerpt on that sura.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/An-Nisa,_34

In the Qur'an, verse 34 of Surah an-Nisa (abbreviated as 4:34) concerns the issue of marital relations in Islam. This verse is interpreted by some Muslims as giving women a degree of autonomy over their own income and property but obliging them to comply with the husband's wishes should they be congruent with Islamic principles and beneficial to the marriage. The verse is also interpreted to mean that men are also obliged to be responsible for maintenance of their female relatives.[1]

There are a number of translations of this verse from the Arabic original, and all vary to some extent.[2] Some Muslims, such as Islamic feminist groups, argue that Muslim men use the text as an excuse for domestic violence.[3] However, Ahmed Ali translated "beat" as "separate", as Arabic in its nature is a multi-meaning language, and as such no word has a fixed sole meaning.[4]

Ibn Abbas, a companion of Muhammad, wrote the earliest commentary on the Quran, and to this part he himself said this is only a light tap.[5] When asked about the light hitting, he said it refers to using a siwak (toothbrush). There are sources that say that Muhammad himself never hit a woman and forbade it.[6] Furthermore, Muhammad commented on this verse, where he said “a light tap that leaves no mark.”[7]

There have been several fatwas against domestic violence.[8][9] Feminist writers have argued that society during Quranic times differed from modern times, especially in how children were reared and raised, creating a need for gender roles. However, these scholars highlight that the Qur'an can be interpreted differently as society changes.[10][11][12]

The first part of the verse about men having authority over women is meant for obedience towards God, not the husband.[13] Interpretations of what having authority means vary.[14]

Also, there are multiple translations of that verse, including the terms “protectors" and "guardians" being translated instead of "in charge of".

This is the translation by Sahih international, which is a version I have read, and the version used in many popular apps and translations.

Men are (meant to be righteous and kind) guardians of women because God has favored some more than others and because they (i.e. men) spend out of their wealth. (In their turn) righteous women are (meant to be) devoted and to guard what God has (willed to be) guarded even though out of sight (of the husband). As for those (women) on whose part you fear ill-will and nasty conduct, admonish them (first), (next) leave them alone in beds (and last) beat or separate them (from you). But if they obey you, then seek nothing against them. Behold, God is most high and great

 

[AP90]

Bastards. Yeah, they're comparable to ISIS, Al-Queda, and whoever else throughout the years. They're our enemy in plain sight and they always have been. We were attacked by a gang of Saudi Arabians on 9-11, and took it out on Afghanistan and Iraq. SA is one of the most regressive, abusive places in the world, and they get away with it because of their business ties. The only thing they're vulnerable to is alternative energy sources.

We also sell them fucktons of weapons I think.

This.

 

[Stinkles]

*sigh* Note that the UK isn't one of the places polled in your chart and yet it's a UK poll that started this discussion. My point is that even a little cursory look into how vague these terms are would put these polls in a far less scary light which is kinda necessary because of how terrified and Islamophobic people have become because of a word as ill defined as 'Sharia'

I agree that ill worded polls create fear and uncertainty- especially when the answers are stripped of context but every single functioning Sharia system on earth, regardless of nation, treats women as second class citizens worth varying fractions of a man, and other religions even less so, and of course atheists as subhuman. All reserve the most dreadful punishments for apostasy (be in this cult or else) and all contain serious human rights violations.

Further all Sharia law upholds testimony above objective evidence and that alone should make any rational person reject it as a system of justice.

It's wholly incompatible with logic and objectivity and frankly, goodness or mercy.

 

[Azih]

Sharia law isn't that ill defined. It's a legal system based on the quran and some hadiths. There are degrees of bad to it, but many people object to it regardless of what version of bad it is, but because it's solely based on a religious text and not a secular law. Pretty much any version of sharia has laws against freedom of speech (blasphemy), some sort of human rights issue and freedom of religion issues.

The assumption that 40% of British Muslims somehow want to stone adulterers is based on an incredibly ill defined and common view of the word.

 

[nynt9]

The assumption that 40% of British Muslims somehow want to stone adulterers is based on an incredibly ill defined and common view of the word.

I never claimed or even implied that. British muslims never entered the conversation for me, I was never considering that.