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[Neol]

Didn't listen to the podcast so not sure how it exactly went but I feel that any other MOBA Pat's gonna play he's gonna compare it to HotS now so map variety is gonna be a major complaint. To be fair it is one of the things I find it to be a strong point in that game as the map and objective variety does give each game a different feel.

Also I know Pat has some thick skin but I feel his patience would wear thin if he continued to play DotA. Its not impenetrable but unlike League and HotS with there f2p rotation system, DotA is super overwhelming as they give you all 111 heroes from the get go so you don't have time to learn specific champs as there always gonna be a different lineup each time. That combined with the large map, the shops and the level of micro you need for CSing and denying definitely makes DotA the hardest one to get into which I honestly feel Pat would not be willing to learn nor try to understand.

 

[joe2187]

I hope the MOBA/DOTA stuff doesnt become the norm for the podcast.

 

[Moonlight]

I hope the MOBA/DOTA stuff doesnt become the norm for the podcast.

Probably as much as FFXIV did, which is to say that it will dominate what Pat talks about for a few weeks and fall off a cliff to say that he did nothing interest except hit rocks in the interest of everyone who does not actually care. We'll see a revival if Blackthorne hits HotS, but it'll probably just be Pat giving Matt and Woolie shit.

 

[Neol]

Its inevitable if Pat keeps playing HotS as the MOBA community in general have super strong opinions about there games whether its sound or not.

Kinda sucks cause I can imagine all the hate Pat is getting as HotS is known in the community as the "baby" game.

 

[RecursiveFault]

I'll be amazed if Pat keeps up with HOTS as soon as Feb and SFV hit.

 

[GuardianE]

For the life of me, I can't get into MOBAs.

 

[RecursiveFault]

For the life of me, I can't get into MOBAs.

I would say there's a lot of walls. Impenetrable game design/tutorials, insane learning curve, basically a necessity for outside help, and the teamwork requirement. All that is compounded on top of deciding if you even like it or not.

If they weren't F2P the DOTA clones probably wouldn't have taken off the way they did at all.

 

[E_Darkness]

Oh man Woolie's segment was great. Just this podcast so far is pretty great.

 

[Village]

Bruh

i need all future podcasts to be filled with woolie lore and mofense of ba ancients talk

 

[ArclightBorealis]

More Gundam talk on the podcast, with Pat finally watching the majority of a series recommended to him. I feel weird as a mecha fan that my desire to get through any Gundam series these days is barely there, regardless of what Woolie says about Iron Blooded Orphans or everyone else saying how he's wrong. Especially considering the complaints he and Pat bring up specifically, I feel the appropriate route would have been to just ditch all that and stick to watching VOTOMS since that's what I've resigned to myself. And I feel all the better for it. Can't get any realer than ATs.

For the life of me, I can't get into MOBAs.

I can't even make the effort to try one out of sheer curiosity. Nothing about their design and gameplay strikes me as something to give a shit about. Same for MMOs.

 

[DXLelouch153]

lol Pat
not only will Gundams MC not die
hell show up again later
MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
ps fuck you earth feddie scum
edit:wait hes talking about mobile suit gundam right?
with char?

 

[hupla]

Holy fuck @ the Woolie lore in the podcast like God damn

 

[NCR Redslayer]

Holy fuck @ the Woolie lore in the podcast like God damn

The roots of Maddentown go deep.

 

[Moonlight]

More Gundam talk on the podcast, with Pat finally watching the majority of a series recommended to him. I feel weird as a mecha fan that my desire to get through any Gundam series these days is barely there, regardless of what Woolie says about Iron Blooded Orphans or everyone else saying how he's wrong. Especially considering the complaints he and Pat bring up specifically, I feel the appropriate route would have been to just ditch all that and stick to watching VOTOMS since that's what I've resigned to myself. And I feel all the better for it. Can't get any realer than ATs.

Ignore all Gundam, then watch Gundam Build Fighters, but only season one, which is bar none the best Gundam-related anything, and pretend Gundam doesn't exist except for Thunderbolt. Profit.

 

[ArclightBorealis]

Ignore all Gundam, then watch Gundam Build Fighters, but only season one, which is bar none the best Gundam-related anything, and pretend Gundam doesn't exist except for Thunderbolt. Profit.

I already hold G Gundam in extremely high regard, especially because Yasuhiro Imagawa is a Super Robot director extraordinaire, so I think I'm still good with where I stand.

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

Didn't listen to the podcast so not sure how it exactly went but I feel that any other MOBA Pat's gonna play he's gonna compare it to HotS now so map variety is gonna be a major complaint. To be fair it is one of the things I find it to be a strong point in that game as the map and objective variety does give each game a different feel.

Dota has items and a shitload of heroes(all unique in their own way) to make every game feel different, it may seem the same to an outsider but you will never see the same game twice no matter how long you keep playing, if there were more than one map THEN the game will have officially crossed over into needlessly complicated territory.

For the life of me, I can't get into MOBAs.

If you don't want to it's fine, but if you're dedicated and willing to put in the time(early on, once you've learned it it's like riding a bike) it's easily doable. If you're like Pat and you go "eh I guess I'll try it for an hour" then there's a 0% chance you'll get into it at all.

This shouldn't be bothering me but the fact that Pat was confident enough to make such sweeping statements about how you play Dota after he's played it for like an hour at best really annoyed me. If he thinks that, that's fine, but he's discouraging everyone that's listening with his uninformed opinion.

 

[Moonlight]

I already hold G Gundam in extremely high regard, especially because Yasuhiro Imagawa is a Super Robot director extraordinaire, so I think I'm still good with where I stand.

Then you can still watch GBF because it draws a lot of inspiration from G Gundam!

 

[Neol]

Honestly the only reason I got into MOBA's was because me and my friends all started at the same time. Its really enjoyable when you don't have to deal with randoms and your friends can communicate and improve together while seeing progress with every game you play.

Dota has items and a shitload of heroes(all unique in their own way) to make every game feel different, it may seem the same to an outsider but you will never see the same game twice no matter how long you keep playing, if there were more than one map THEN the game will have officially crossed over into needlessly complicated territory.

Oh yea no doubt Dota has lots of variety with there champs and items as the other MOBA's does. I'm just saying at face value Pat wouldn't recognize that as he's basing his impression by comparing it to HotS where the maps are visibly different. I think he recognizes the variety with the heroes but doesn't really understand the significance of item builds since HotS doesn't even have items.

 

[TheCthultist]

HotS really is the way to go for introducing someone to the abyss that is mobas. Easy to understand systems, small but not boring cast of heroes, unique maps that keep things interesting if a little predictable, and quick matches do you don't get stuck in hour long games consistantly. DotA's more the one to work your way up to once you want something that will really require some depth of knowledge and practice. As someone whose only played league for a couple days at a time before month long breaks form it, I have no idea how that one would be...

 

[VidulaSaix]

First game back in HotS in months and I get a team where 1 guy afk's and a Nova who just stealths the entire time and steals kills, never participating in anything else.

Boy do I love multiplayer games. They're not full of morons at all. Nope, not one bit.

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

If you wanna get into MOBAs but don't know which one to play first I'd definitely recommend playing one your friends are playing, it makes it way easier to get into it that way. I didn't know anyone that was into any of them but I was already determined to get into Dota(found people to play with afterwards).

I also recommend trying to learn that "intimidating MOBA" before immediately concluding that it's too much for you, playing something like HotS first does help but not as much as you'd hope. If your end goal is getting into Dota/LoL then I suggest you start at those games, it'll save you much more time and effort.

If you're not interested in spending the time and effort to get into the harder MOBAs and just want to get right in there and have fun then HotS might be the game for you.

Edit: Oh, and all of them contain assholes, HotS is not an exception. If you think you're avoiding the "toxic community" by playing HotS then I have bad news regarding multiplayer games for you.

 

[VidulaSaix]

Edit: Oh, and all of them contain assholes, HotS is not an exception. If you think you're avoiding the "toxic community" by playing HotS then I have bad news regarding multiplayer games for you.

I know bud. I played League for 2 years, I'm not new to the genre.

 

[Siegcram]

Whens season 1 of Maddentown?

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

I know bud. I played League for 2 years, I'm not new to the genre.

Wasn't talking to you specifically pal.

 

[VidulaSaix]

Wasn't talking to you specifically pal.

Alright then, guy.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Spoilers. He's over leveled as fuck.

Ha! Why am I not surprised?

Even German Spy took OoK very seriously after wrecking every other boss in about a minute.

 

[Seraphis Cain]

Fucking losing my goddamn shit at Woolie's "Can't have two of those" during the KI talk. :lol

 

[VidulaSaix]

Madden Town.

Amazing. Truly the best.

 

[Numb]

Woolie's grandad is the truest hustler

 

[MrHoot]

Dayumn they all beardy and lumberjacky now

 

[MillionStabs]

I imagine Maddentown is like that town Liam is the mayor of, but its in the sewers beneath the streets of Greneda.

 

[TC McQueen]

More Gundam talk on the podcast, with Pat finally watching the majority of a series recommended to him. I feel weird as a mecha fan that my desire to get through any Gundam series these days is barely there, regardless of what Woolie says about Iron Blooded Orphans or everyone else saying how he's wrong. Especially considering the complaints he and Pat bring up specifically, I feel the appropriate route would have been to just ditch all that and stick to watching VOTOMS since that's what I've resigned to myself. And I feel all the better for it. Can't get any realer than ATs.

I'm not that surprised, because a lot of the old UC stuff got overhyped to shit by people who watched shitty fansubs back in the '90s/early 2000s, plus the post-2000 stuff has been hit or miss. G, X, 00 Season 1, Build Fighters, and Iron-Blooded Orphans are really the only shows worth giving a damn about because they don't go to absurd extremes in their conflicts & feel more modern than the old two-faction formula, and aside from The Origin, the UC OVAs tend to fellate the genocidal space nazis called Zeon.

 

[MrHoot]

Does someone remember what Liam said about P4 dancing all night ? I'm playing it now and i'm enjoying it overall although there's something i'm not quite sure about but can't put my finger on it. I'm no connaisseur on rythm games and I remember him saying something distinct about P4D

 

[The_Poet]

They moan about how complex MOBA's are but in the next breath praise fighting game design

 

[Meffer]

Does someone remember what Liam said about P4 dancing all night ? I'm playing it now and i'm enjoying it overall although there's something i'm not quite sure about but can't put my finger on it. I'm no connaisseur on rythm games and I remember him saying something distinct about P4D

The point system in harder difficulties is out of whack. The UI for where you hit the notes is too far apart. And long cutscenes.

 

[NeonBlack]

Woolie's grandad is the truest hustler

Woolie is making Zanzibar Land. That is until Solid Madden shows up.

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

They moan about how complex MOBA's are but in the next breath praise fighting game design

ding ding ding!

I'm having a shitload of trouble getting into fighting games, and as opposed to Dota, there's not a lot of helpful stuff online to help me out when it comes to Street Fighter. You wanna talk inpenetrable? Try getting into SF4 in 2015.

For how complex Dota is it at least has a decent tutorial, most fighting games just say "fuck you get good".

 

[The_Poet]

ding ding ding!

I'm having a shitload of trouble getting into fighting games, and as opposed to Dota, there's not a lot of helpful stuff online to help me out when it comes to Street Fighter. You wanna talk inpenetrable? Try getting into SF4 in 2015.

For how complex Dota is it at least has a decent tutorial, most fighting games just say "fuck you get good".

MOBAs arent even THAT complex. Sure it's alot of remembering for skills/items but applying that knowledge is pretty straight forward. Fighting games require as much if not more knowledge but is way for difficult to apply it well.

To be fair, the skull girls tutorial was pretty good (even though its the only fighting game tutorial I've played) but it only taught you combos and pure mechanics, not these footsies / frame data I keep hearing about.

 

[MrHoot]

Transcending history and the world, a tale of salt and hats, eternally retold

The saga is only beginning

 

[Numb]

Pat has hit the bottom
RIP

 

[The_Poet]

Pat has hit the bottom
RIP

He's not at the bottom yet. He could be playing LoL

 

[Moonlight]

He's not at the bottom yet. He could be playing LoL

LoL is pretty okay in terms of letting you play/get stuff without spending tons of money, really. I only just now dropped twenty to cover some stuff for sales.

 

[GuardianE]

MOBAs arent even THAT complex. Sure it's alot of remembering for skills/items but applying that knowledge is pretty straight forward. Fighting games require as much if not more knowledge but is way for difficult to apply it well.

To be fair, the skull girls tutorial was pretty good (even though its the only fighting game tutorial I've played) but it only taught you combos and pure mechanics, not these footsies / frame data I keep hearing about.

These are just the names for two concepts you're already employing at least on a basic level.

Frame data is just the numerical breakdown of how combos work and what moves can either punish or beat out other moves. You don't need to know specifics to get started at all. On a more advanced basis, it can also be useful to know for frame trapping, meaties, setups... but really to start all frame data tells you is what's fast, what's safe, what's punishable, and what links into what. Since you're going to be practicing tried and true combos for the most part, you probably won't care how the combo connects via frame data.

Footsies changes on a game by game basis, and even then you'll find that people have varying definitions of the scope of footsies. Simplified, its proper ground or air spacing where you can whiff punish. Having a tutorial on this would be sort of difficult. I suppose it could teach you the optimal range to stand for a particular characters normal and have the A I perform an attack so you can whiff punish, but that's really only one limited element of footsies, and doesn't touch upon general movement or wider application of normals.

 

[Siegcram]

Patrick "Addictive Personality" Boivin strikes again.

 

[NCR Redslayer]

LoL is pretty okay in terms of letting you play/get stuff without spending tons of money, really. I only just now dropped twenty to cover some stuff for sales.

You say that now but you'll eventually spend more.

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

MOBAs arent even THAT complex. Sure it's alot of remembering for skills/items but applying that knowledge is pretty straight forward. Fighting games require as much if not more knowledge but is way for difficult to apply it well.

To be fair, the skull girls tutorial was pretty good (even though its the only fighting game tutorial I've played) but it only taught you combos and pure mechanics, not these footsies / frame data I keep hearing about.

Yeah complex is the wrong word, it's just a lot that you have to learn(what heroes do, what items do, what items are good when and versus what heroes) and you can only really learn those things effectively with experience.

Skullgirls has a great tutorial compared to most fighting games but yeah, I didn't really learn how to actually play at all even with that. Dota literally has ingame guides for every single hero(and every hero has at least 10 builds to choose from or you can just go the standard build) that you can just follow if you can't keep up. To take Pat's example of Sven, he could've just picked a guide that told him what skills to level up and what items to buy in what order(while still providing explanations as to why he should be building that way) while also explaining how the hero should be played in the guide. I'd fucking kill for such a guide on Cammy, but all I get are bits and pieces that I actively have to search for online that are all meant for advanced players.

THIS IS WHY MOBAS ARE DESTROYING FIGHTING GAMES WOOLIE.

 

[The_Poet]

LoL is pretty okay in terms of letting you play/get stuff without spending tons of money, really. I only just now dropped twenty to cover some stuff for sales.

I've said this plenty of times to plenty of LoL fans (and fans of other games that do this)

It's monetisation system is inherently anti-competitive. Hiding heroes behind a paywall means that a player can spend money to have a tangible advantage over a player who doesn't spend money.

 

[Skrams]

People are tearing into machinima in their JC3 video. Did something (recent) happen over there?

EDIT: WOW JC3 looks like shit

It's kind of weird how much they sandbagged the game. It feels like they didn't want to play it and wanted to somehow apply Woolie's working on JC1 to this as a joke to shit on him or the game? Either way JC3 is pretty cool and I'm surprised how they treated the one off.

Also man, the framerate in the video is terrible at times. I would imagine Pat would make a comment on it at least. I have no idea what the problem is with some of their machinima videos with framerate. Also a chunk of the reddit was annoyed at them pooping on the game as well.

Does someone remember what Liam said about P4 dancing all night ? I'm playing it now and i'm enjoying it overall although there's something i'm not quite sure about but can't put my finger on it. I'm no connaisseur on rythm games and I remember him saying something distinct about P4D

Uh, quite a few things? No 1/16 Notes and an obviously fanfictiony story mode as far as pretty simple things go. There's also times where you're not playing along to the song at all and you're playing an instrument that isn't there. It's weird to explain.

The health system to complete songs is a bit insane for a rhythm game. It's not a simple percentage to pass, but you have health which on higher difficulties can drop after maybe 1-2 notes. As in drop to a failing grade. You could hit every note in a song, fail the last 2-3 notes, and get a not clear. You could also fail a note or two, drop into the white, and not be able to recover before the end of the song because it takes a while to build up. It's really fucking harsh.

The scoring system is strange too since you can miss a note at the beginning of the song and get a 2mill score at the end or something like that. If you miss that note in the beginning though your score would be cut in half. I don't think Liam mentioned it either, but leaderboards are a bit fucked since there is an item that increases your score except it makes notes completely invisible. Virtually a useless item, but instead people just youtube videos at the same time for note sync. If you care about leaderboards then welp.

Transcending history and the world, a tale of salt and hats, eternally retold

The saga is only beginning

He's just Brad Shoemaker now. People predicted this months or years ago. It's finally happening full force. I don't know if I want this.

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

At least Brad is addicted to a good game

Spoiler

j/k

Spoiler

but seriously

 

[Squishy3]

And he's probably going to quit it cold turkey when SF5 hits