Acerac
Banned
You seem to like responding to posts other than this one despite multiple people asking you the same question.
How curious.
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School shooting in Santa Fe, TX; the 22nd school shooting so far in 2018
- Thread starter Autoignition
- Start date
How curious.
rokkerkory
Member
Texas governor's website continues to tout shotgun giveaway in aftermath of school shooting
Will he take some action like the FL governor did I wonder.
dropkick!
Member
Generally speaking, anyone younger than 18 can't LEGALLY buy a gun. And its a felony if anyone else will take a background check for that guy's sake.
Parents letting their kids use guns is another story. Families exists where kids use guns for varmin, general hunting, and sporting like skeet. Those families see those as family time too, especially in rural areas where you got nothing to do but shoot in your big backyard.
Just saying.
BANGS
Banned
citation needed... cause all of human history proves otherwise...
That's not was a source is...
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blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
So the same as tobacco. But I wasn't referring to buying per se, I was referring to adults granting kids access to firearms without direct supervision. It's one thing to get your kid out in the bushes to shoot squirrels, and an entirely different matter to pass them the key to the shotgun locker.
dropkick!
Member
1. Yeah, it's actually in the name of the federal agency that regulates firearms... ATF (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms)
2. Ok, since I mentioned that, think about this. How many do you know that drank under age 21? That is illegal depending on situation and varies from state to state, yet it still happens. It doesn't really matter if the parents put their keys on their own room, the kid will find a way. I mean we are kids at one point in time, we all know we hid some stuff under our parent's jurisdiction. Marijuana is even illegal in many states and still slip by the cracks.
This is what many conservatives at the very least recognize. Even if you magically pass a law making firearm ownership illegal, evil people will still do evil things. I mean, look at UK... They got a blanket gun ban... and now knife attacks and acid attacks occur. It's really laughable situation when people memed about UK leftists start banning knives till it start being real. What this shooting proved at a gun control narrative is that, first, it doesn't matter if you ban rifles and pistol, school shooters will use the next thing, which in this case, shotguns and revolvers. Second, leftists end goal is getting rid of the 2nd Amendment. Which is sad because this problem with school shooters are mostly related more on these kids being socially ostrecized (whether its bullying or gang related), and our own government not doing their jobs enforcing our current laws (e.g. Sutherland Springs shooting & Parkland Shooting). Add to that how the politicians and media are dead silent about every single time an armed courageous dude prevent school shootings from happening, and leftists wonder why people wanna hold onto their guns.
Just saying'
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
BANGS
Banned
Well I mean that's just to be expected...
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Here we disagree, though. 'Things just happen' is not a productive way to look at things. People drink under the age of 21, sure. Does that mean that if we lowered or entirely removed the drinking age limit same amount of teenagers would get drunk at the same rate? I sincerely doubt.
For every rule and regulation there are examples of people not following those. That does not somehow make rules and regulations nil.
Case in point, parents of kids who committed a firearm felony should be investigated -- did those parents handle their legally owned firearms safely? And if the investigation showed parents mishandled their firearms, then parents should be charged with manslaughter or reckless behavior jeopardizing others' lives. Even further, parents who cannot demonstrably keep their firearms away from their children should not be legally sold firearms.
Just saying in return.
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Only real thing I can see happening is true lockdown and prevention of allowing firearms onto the campus. You will never hear about shootings at Disneyland or at a courthouse because they do real checks to prevent anyone from entering with a firearm. If schools became safe zones like this than you would squash some of this on the property at least
Now the infrastructure and cost to do that probably is unmanageable. But at this rate that’s all people will do because you will never get a majority to agree on any kind of preventative measure. You can’t “prove” anything will outright work and this topic too ingrained in the left versus right narrative. It’s like college sports level rivalry of some people probably not really knowing why they think a certain way, but they have to because they gotta be against the enemy. Real cult like shit you can’t even have a real conversation about it from either side
Now the infrastructure and cost to do that probably is unmanageable. But at this rate that’s all people will do because you will never get a majority to agree on any kind of preventative measure. You can’t “prove” anything will outright work and this topic too ingrained in the left versus right narrative. It’s like college sports level rivalry of some people probably not really knowing why they think a certain way, but they have to because they gotta be against the enemy. Real cult like shit you can’t even have a real conversation about it from either side
dropkick!
Member
Think about that for a second though... what and how will you define "safely handling a firearm"? Second is, will this extend to just family members? What if the kid stole your local ol' neighbor's old mini 14, a guy who never had a kid and dont even know that grandpa gun exist? (That is actually pretty darn common). And second is... how will you enforce such laws? Is it really going to reduce school shootings? Is that law's purpose more to punish the people surrounding the criminal itself instead of the criminal itself? What if he picks up a machete and start hitting people with it? Will the parents still be liable?
I need to ask this because this is a super slippery slope you are asking for. Because it can go alot of places, like being punished for using your mom's concentrated house cleaner to poison/get a classmate high or whatever, and getting that mom in prison for something she has no idea whats happening. Think about how many parents dont stay at home till after work. Sounds farfetched until you realize people in other parts of the world does these kinds of things. And when another shooting happens, regulations get much more looney to a point that anyone can have a felony if a lawyer navigates the 10,000 pages of laws that related to your proposed gun safety.
You can take whatever you can think of about this statement, but no rules and regulations will stop a guy from doing harm at you when they really wanna get you, especially if that said guy feels like he have nothing to lose. And no, rules and regulations do not stop people... I would even argue that it adds to its allure of being a rulebreaker. Just look at the prohibition? And even now for marijuana!
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
At the very least -- firearms should be kept in firearm lockers or safes for sidearms, and just like in the army -- never put loaded in storage.
Again, the onus wold be on the gunowner. 'I left my rifle on the porch unattended, I cannot be held responsible' is a naive excuse, at best. Regulations should state what is considered safe storage of firearms (see prev paragraph). If you adhered to those regulations and neighbor's kid still managed to steal your weapon -- the onus would be on regulations makers, not on you.
If and when machete attacks on schools became a problem then your hypothetical would be on the table. Right now it's kids with guns that is the problem at hand.
There's nothing slippery-slope about liberties and responsibilities -- those go hand in hand. If you really believe you must keep a firearm at your house, then you'd automatically become responsible before law to the law's understanding of safety norms. And yes, that includes storage and handling. Car owners have to comply to a bunch of regulations in order to enjoy the liberty of driving. Yes, people break those all the time, and yet, nobody in their right mind would argue for the abolishment of vehicular and traffic regulations.
It's not about stopping 'a guy' -- it's about stopping a good portion of the guys who'd otherwise go unchecked. And there are consequences to rulebreakers even before things get to fatalities. It's about prevention, not about stopping those who have somehow reached the point of absolute determination to cause harm.
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flacopol
Member
But the kids? enter to the school seeing big guys with guns? it´s a permanent threat/fear :/ IMO
BANGS
Banned
I'd imagine it depends on the kid, but personally I'd see it more as a comfort than a threat. My dad had big arms but I didn't see him as a threat, I saw him as the guy who would neutralize threats when they came...
appaws
Banned
I really don't see this. We have such a presence of armed guards/police in our society. I don't think kids would have fear of a uniformed police officer at their school. And it would go a long way to reducing their status as soft targets.
BANGS
Banned
Oner
Member
I'm not going to do all your homework but here are just SOME examples since it is clear this information is too difficult for people to find it seems (especially if it dorsn't fit your narrative)
While African Americans were being terrorized by the Ku Klux Klan, where the Klan were sometimes aided by local law enforcement, the NRA setup charters to help train local African American communities to be able protect themselves. The most prominent case being in 1960 in Monroe,NC where the local National Association for the Advancement of Colored People head Robert Williams also chartered an NRA Rifle Club that successfully defended an assault on one of their leader's homes by the KKK without casualties.
http://www.guns.com/2015/04/03/the-nras-shaneen-allen-a-crusader-of-change-video/
Also look into NRA/McDonald v. City of Chicago
When I can I'll try and show more but I'm not going to waste too much of my time if all I'm going to get in reply are narrow/closed minded people full of cognitive dissonance or ignorant insults because they just won't/don't want to see or believe the facts out there that dis-spell their falsities.
Oner
Member
Whoops forgot this one ~ https://ammo.com/articles/guns-nra-and-american-civil-rights-movement-guide
dropkick!
Member
First, do you know how often gun thefts are? It's pretty darn common. The safe is not foolproof, it can only buy you TIME. You should've seen storage wars. So in your case, a guy who his old trusty 1911 in a small safe got stolen will get prosecuted because a gang member used his gun on another crime.
And you ok with blades ban on the table? Guess what, London did that... Can't even own butterknives... BUTTER KNIVES
I mean at this point, the failures of restricting arms to the local folk become so easy to defend because many people on the left do not think the consequences of their proposals do.
Good luck enforcing your so-called laws. Last time I remember, only a handful complied with Massachusetts bump stock ban, despite having projected ten thousands of them in circulation.
What about if the kids are the ones operating?
to think about it too... iirc school shootings aint an issue pre 1960.... wonder why... :thinking:
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Phoenix RISING
Banned
The father is doing exactly that to the shooting victims.
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But her knives!
dropkick!
Member
I didn't say that... but hey, draw your own conclusions sir...
London Mayor calling for knife control
Butterknives deemed as a "offensive weapon"
Knife Control Strategy, including age restrictions for knife orders (look at pdf)
The point of you still owning your knives illustrates how stupid it all is, as they can't enforce cr*p, (and who can? It's freaking ridiculous that people only thought about it on memes yep it became freaking real)