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[Baraka in the White House]

Get ready for months and months of this shit. AM radio is leading the charge.

As others have said, there's plenty of legit reasons to critique Obamacare. Unfortunately, that would require actual research into the law that opponents typically don't care to do.

 

[SlipperySlope]

Government programming projects are a nightmare for companies. It takes even the simplest of tasks and turns it into a mountain.

http://news.slashdot.org/story/13/10/10/132221/cost-of-healthcaregov-634-million-so-far

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/why-us-government-it-fails-so-hard-so-often/

But overall the contract bidding shit is horrible.

Holy fuck. $634 million for healthcare.gov? The MSNBC article said it was $200 million. They lied to me.

Holy FUCK that is expensive. What were these people making? $900 an hour? They should investigate and audit this shit.

 

[SlipperySlope]

Seriously. If it were a private, ad revenue driven site like say, NeoGaf it would never crash.

What's that have to do with this? You think Evilore invested $634 million into the site or something?

Let's get something more relatable.

Not only is this more than Facebook spent during its first 6 years in operation,

 

[Devolution]

Trying to defund Obamacare. I know, opinions and all...

I hope you're not serious.

 

[FyreWulff]

Trying to defund Obamacare. I know, opinions and all...

Their last great thing is trying to stop something the majority of the United States wanted?

Their last great accomplishment is a procedural battle?

Obamacare is the law of the land. A majority of both House and Congress passed it. It's been signed by the President, and upheld by the Supreme Court. The namesake of the law explicitly ran on it as part of his re-election campaign and won by a significant margin.

This is their latest acclaim? No wonder the GOP is dead.

 

[Valus]

Household income in 2014: 279% of poverty level
Health Insurance premium in 2014: $2,596 per year
You could receive a government tax credit subsidy of up to: $0 per year
Amount you pay for the premium: $2,596 per year

26 years old and single, ouch...what I make is garbage, too. I'm suddenly more grateful to be covered under my employer. I certainly hope this isn't 100% accurate.

 

[Amir0x]

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/ins...ine_i_fact_checked_sean_hannity_on_obamacare/

tl;dr: Hannity had three American couples on his show to share their "horror stories" about ObamaCare and how they are suffering under the new law. Salon reporter decides to do his own follow-up, calls each of the families, discovers that their stories were based on ignorance and fear of the new law; none of them had even tried to enroll or research their options. The reporter put their information into healthcare.gov and found that all of them would be better off under ACA.

When the likes of Hannity and Fox News spread fear and misinformation about healthcare options, aren't they actively endangering people's health? Disgusting.

No surprise. Fucked up though.

 

[Ferrio]

Holy fuck. $634 million for healthcare.gov? The MSNBC article said it was $200 million. They lied to me.

Holy FUCK that is expensive. What were these people making? $900 an hour? They should investigate and audit this shit.

Thems the breaks when it comes to government work. Same way shit at hospitals costs way more than just buying stuff straight.

Not saying it's right... but I can hardly place all the fault on the contractor.

 

[rudieboy77]

I don't believe it Fox lied?

 

[Tex117]

Serious question what's the last national great thing Republicans did? Bush Senior with the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, Immigration Act and Reauthorizing the Clean Air Act?

Have they done fuck all since?

Perscription drug part D in the vein that you are referencing. (in comes but it wasn't paid for...etc...neither is alot of other stuff)

Your statement assumes that the government must "Do" something...I think restrain at certain times can be just as effective.

 

[Piecake]

Holy fuck. $634 million for healthcare.gov? The MSNBC article said it was $200 million. They lied to me.

Holy FUCK that is expensive. What were these people making? $900 an hour? They should investigate and audit this shit.

Thats a pretty absurd position to take without looking at the actual costs of the project. Just because its a big number doesnt mean that its an inflated number.

As for opposing Obamacare, I really am curious what the conservative plan is to deal with the uninsured. We get 40-50 million uninsured in this country (less now, yay medicaid expansion) who go to the emergency room when they are sick. That shit is insanely expensive and inefficient and gets passed onto the tax payers because those uninsured can't afford it. 65% of bankruptcies in this country are caused by medical bills. Obamacare will drastically reduce this. People with pre-existening conditions can now get insurance because of Obamacare

Do conservatives not see that as a problem or something?

26 years old and single, ouch...what I make is garbage, too. I'm suddenly more grateful to be covered under my employer. I certainly hope this isn't 100% accurate.

Your employer subsidizes a great deal of your insurance. What you pay is definitely not the whole amount of what the actual insurance plan costs. That's the reason for the difference.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Hmm...

967% of poverty level

Trying to defund Obamacare. I know, opinions and all...

Yeah, but the average person isn't pulling in $150,000/yr by themselves.

 

[SlipperySlope]

Yeah, but the average person isn't pulling in $150,000/yr by themselves.

And neither do I. It was asking for household income (look at the question mark).

 

[Devolution]

Perscription drug part D in the vein that you are referencing. (in comes but it wasn't paid for...etc...neither is alot of other stuff)

Your statement assumes that the government must "Do" something...I think restrain at certain times can be just as effective.

The government always has shit to improve on, especially ours.

 

[Valus]

Your employer subsidizes a great deal of your insurance. What you pay is definitely not the whole amount of what the actual insurance plan costs. That's the reason for the difference.

I see, that makes more sense then. Thanks for clearing it up!

 

[SlipperySlope]

Their last great thing is trying to stop something the majority of the United States wanted?

Their last great accomplishment is a procedural battle?

Obamacare is the law of the land. A majority of both House and Congress passed it. It's been signed by the President, and upheld by the Supreme Court. The namesake of the law explicitly ran on it as part of his re-election campaign and won by a significant margin.

This is their latest acclaim? No wonder the GOP is dead.

Believe it or not, Obamacare isn't very popular.

 

[Angry Grimace]

And neither do I. It was asking for household income (look at the question mark).

You said "not including my wife." I don't understand.

Believe it or not, Obamacare isn't very popular.

And yet, Obama managed to be handily reelected after passing it, the centerpiece of his presidency. Imagine that.

Popularity goes which ever way the wind blows and Obama himself was unpopular for a number of things not related to Obamacare for a large part of this year. I don't think its a compelling argument.

 

[Tex117]

The government always has shit to improve on, especially ours.

I agree 100%.

But I can't necessarily support the idea that for a party to be effective they must roll out these big "Acts." Smarter regulation of current law could be equally as effective but not get near the fanfare.

Im not saying Republicans have done this recently so...yeah...I guess Im just opining in theory.

 

[KHarvey16]

Hmm...

For me (not including wife)



$267 per month. I'm currently on an HSA with a HDHP plan, paying $45 a month and contributing $200/month into the HSA which is building up.

... no thanks.

Are you comparing a subsidized employer plan to an unsubsidized individual plan?

 

[Piecake]

Believe it or not, Obamacare isn't very popular.

Shutting down the government and threatening not raising the debt ceiling to get concessions on Obamacare was definitely unpopular though. I sure hope you don't consider yourself a fiscal conservative if you supported that crap.

 

[rudieboy77]

Anything said about the costs of the ACA should be looked into and not believed at face value. The ACA was passed with a tactic called budget reconciliation and if a budgetary law passed this way is not budget neutral after 10 years it is forced to sun set. That is why the Bush tax cuts were going to expire, because they were passed this way and they caused massive debt and deficit to the budget.

 

[soul creator]

there was a nytimes article recently about the costs of implementing healthcare.gov

You know what would probably be much easier and cheaper? Just letting everyone sign up for Medicare. Infrastructure for that is already in place, after all

 

[Angry Grimace]

Shutting down the government and threatening not raising the debt ceiling to get concessions on Obamacare was definitely unpopular though. I sure hope you don't consider yourself a fiscal conservative if you supported that crap.

I haven't looked, but I would be very surprised if the approval rating of Obamacare didn't closely track the approval rating of Obama.

 

[Piecake]

there was a nytimes article recently about the costs of implementing healthcare.gov

You know what would probably be much easier and cheaper? Just letting everyone sign up for Medicare. Infrastructure for that is already in place, after all

That would have made too much sense though

I haven't looked, but I would be very surprised if the approval rating of Obamacare didn't closely track the approval rating of Obama.

I think a lot of it is misinformation. Just look at that whole BS congress exempt crap thing republicans have been pushing. I think people who have insurance are scared that it will impact them negatively in a big way. Once that doesnt happen and once people who lack insurance get insurance I think it will become more popular. Will it happen anytime soon? Probably not since its been so politicized, but I think it will eventually happen

 

[BLACKLAC]

Believe it or not, Obamacare isn't very popular.

People seem to like the ACA though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx2scvIFGjE

 

[Tex117]

Anything said about the costs of the ACA should be looked into and not believed at face value. The ACA was passed with a tactic called budget reconciliation and if a budgetary law passed this way is not budget neutral after 10 years it is forced to sun set. That is why the Bush tax cuts were going to expire, because they were passed this way and they caused massive debt and deficit to the budget.

Going to need some support for this. Not saying you are right or wrong, but thats a big point I haven't seen discussed.

 

[Mesoian]

...How....how are they paying more for insurance that wasn't available to them before Obamacare?...

....so I'm assuming by "very in depth, serious discussions", you meant...incorrect?

Do people still not know what the ACA actually is?

No. they don't

 

[rudieboy77]

Going to need some support for this. Not saying you are right or wrong, but thats a big point I haven't seen discussed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byrd_Rule

EDIT: forgot to add this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunset_provision#Budget_Act_and_the_Byrd_Rule

People (the media) don't talk about it because facts do not matter.

 

[FyreWulff]

Believe it or not, Obamacare isn't very popular.

Source?

Do I need to cart out the one that shows House Democrats actually got a majority of the vote by popular vote?

 

[KHarvey16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byrd_Rule

People (the media) don't talk about it because facts do not matter.

Wait...that doesn't do what you think it does.

 

[rudieboy77]

Wait...that doesn't do what you think it does.

I just edited my post I forgot to add the sunset provision.

 

[Tex117]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byrd_Rule

EDIT: forgot to add this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunset_provision#Budget_Act_and_the_Byrd_Rule

People (the media) don't talk about it because facts do not matter.

Thank you for the information. You might be right, but this is a point of parlimentary procedure and I sincerly doubt that it would be allowed to "undo" the ACA. Procedure can easily be amended.

 

[rudieboy77]

Thank you for the information. You might be right, but this is a point of parlimentary procedure and I sincerly doubt that it would be allowed to "undo" the ACA. Procedure can easily be amended.

Well look at the Bush tax cuts, they were supposed to expire, yet Obama extended them for a couple of years if I remember correctly, then made them permanent for those making under a 250k.

 

[NervousXtian]

Hmm...

For me (not including wife)



$267 per month. I'm currently on an HSA with a HDHP plan, paying $45 a month and contributing $200/month into the HSA which is building up.

... no thanks.

So, $45 a month on a non-employer subsided plan?

So I can claim that the markets are bullshit because I only pay $200/mo for my wife and 2 kids to have healthcare and the comparable plan is $700 on the Oregon market?

Oh.. wait.. that other $500 is paid by my employer as part of my compensation.

How does this all work? Right? Right!

Well look at the Bush tax cuts, they were supposed to expire, yet Obama extended them for a couple of years if I remember correctly, then made them permanent for those making under a 250k.

..and it was a stupid choice. We are so under-taxed comparably in this country it's not even funny. We employ a lot of low-paid employees where I work.. and I laugh to myself whenever they bitch about how much they pay in federal taxes. They don't pay ANY federal income tax.

 

[KHarvey16]

Well look at the Bush tax cuts, they were supposed to expire, yet Obama extended them for a couple of years if I remember correctly, then made them permanent for those making under a 250k.

The Bush tax cuts were always intended to be temporary.

 

[Fusebox]

Obamacare is like airplane food. It's served in a nice looking package, but it's really a steaming pile of shit.

Catch a flight sometime, Airplane food is served in a crappy looking tinfoil container.

 

[Halvie]

Bronze seems to be $50 more a month than I am currently paying for a privately bought plan with a lower deductible. Not real thrilled, but not the end of the world.

 

[Exuro]

Website works for me. This is the first time I've tried and right now I'm looking at healthcare plans. I actually get health care through my job and it's a bit cheaper so I won't be enrolling in this but I was just curious if I could get it to work.

See:

http://i.imgur.com/iQBGAHxl.png[IMG]

Are the problems related to logging in or something?[/QUOTE]I just signed up and couldn't get verified. : /

 

[Nesotenso]

Sean Hannity is just a pile a shit.

 

[pulsemyne]

Holy fuck. $634 million for healthcare.gov? The MSNBC article said it was $200 million. They lied to me.

Holy FUCK that is expensive. What were these people making? $900 an hour? They should investigate and audit this shit.

LOL that's nothing compared to some IT projects. Most governments around the world have been ripped off something chronic for IT related stuff.

 

[M-PG71C]

I've always held the position that while the ACA is not a perfect piece of legislature (What is honestly lol) it is a damn good start. The GOP would do better amending pieces of the legislation and advocating their position to the public. Not acting like a bunch of damn idiots and spreading misinformation to the determent of the general public.

 

[speculawyer]

This article is great. Everything about this shutdown/healthcare "debate" has seemed like a prolonged argument between a parent and their petulant toddlers.

2/3rds of this guest panel are basically acting like "YUCK. NOODLES? I DON'T LIKE NOODLES. I ONLY LIKE HAMBURGERS. NOODLES ARE GROSS."

And then they try the noodles after a bunch of crying and whining about what they want, and they realize they fucking like noodles, because noodles are delicious.

There is a well-known book about this type of problem but some Senators are unable to grasp the moral of the story.

 

[speculawyer]

Fox News is x1000 worse than it was in 2009. Its down right garbage at this point.

Garbage then, garbage now. It is hard to compare how bad it is . . . just think, they had Glenn Beck back in 2009.

 

[jay]

Nitpicking details is all good and well, but what about freedom?

 

[IISANDERII]

"Tort reform" is a hilarious euphemism

Please explain

 

[rudieboy77]

The Bush tax cuts were always intended to be temporary.

Because they were passed thru the Senate using budget reconciliation.

From the link I provided,

"In short, a net effect of the Byrd Rule is to require that any spending increase or tax cut be approved by a majority of 60 if it does not contain a sunset provision assuring no increase in the deficit after the budget resolution period (though there is an exception if the total effect on the deficit in a particular title is to not increase the deficit, the point of order is not triggered). With the sunset provision, only a simple majority is necessary in the budget reconciliation process."

Believe me if they had the votes in 2000 to make the cuts permanent they would have been, in effect they are.
I still remember W saying that the government had basically collected too much of the peoples money (at the time we were still trillions of dollars in debt) and it was time to give the money back.

 

[rudieboy77]

Please explain

If you ran a business and you all of the sudden started saving money on the cost of running your business, would you pocket the savings or would you give that savings away to your customers?

Most pro tort reform arguments make the ridiculous claim that the savings would be passed on to the customer. These folks laughingly say this and still claim to be capitalists?

 

[Cyan]

Trying to defund Obamacare. I know, opinions and all...

Right up there with "trying to shut down Gitmo" on the list of great legislative accomplishments of the last five years.

 

[RiccochetJ]

I honestly wonder how this kind of stuff isn't the equivalent of shouting fire in a crowded theater.

 

[Culex]

This thread makes me feel lucky my employer has a great insurance plan.

I pay each month $202 for health care, plus $56 for dental and $150 put into an HSA account which I can use on nearly anything health-related. This included myself, my wife and baby,

On the CT exchange, the minimum plan is 550 dollars....no dental. Freaking scary.