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Sega Saturn Appreciation and Emulation Thread

You should try Solar Eclipse it's similar to Star Fox but with the inclusion of absolutely awesomely terrible 90's FMV's.

With Starcraft 64, I played the PC version religiously for years, same with Warcraft 2. I own and play Warcraft 2 on the Saturn occasionally but it's pretty amazing how much content they packed on that Starcraft 64 cart. Unlike that crap CnC "port".
 
it's an important cause. the ABF's/etc of the world will unknowingly cause revisionist history to result in tons of YT videos where the meme of the N64 having a diverse and strong library will continue to grow, and until public schooling starts picking up the slack, we can't have this folks
If you've ever actually read my posts, you'd know that I don't say anything you accuse me of here. I actually have always said pretty much the opposite of what you claim here.

The case for the N64 is quality over quantity -- that the games it has, in the genres it is good at, are the best. Of course it has a few games in every genre, and most genres have some greats, but even with how great Ogre Battle 64 is the N64 is no match for the Saturn or PS1 in strategy games, for example, or 2d fighters of course.

How much this matters depends entirely on personal opinion and what genres people like more.


Last, if you want a diverse library, you don't want the Saturn either, you want the PS1. The Saturn's library has some huge holes, much like the N64 (though in different genres) -- the Saturn has no racing sims, for example, very few 3d platformers, no answer to 3d Zelda, far fewer RPGs than the PS1, few flight sims (the N64 has almost none either, while the PS1 has plenty), etc. The argument for the Saturn over the PS1 is basically the same one as it is for the N64, except focusing on different genres.

but history will regard those who place the N64's library at the top of that gen as gaming's equivalent of holocaust deniers
To say a bit more about this, this is a statement so offensive that you've actually one-upped most of the N64-bashing in those recent N64 threads on Sega-16, which is quite an accomplishment.

Second, by Godwin's Law, you just lost this discussion.

i find the claim that N64 > saturn (much less PSX) to be highly offensive to my culture, yet here i am doing outreach
If you REALLY think that comparing that to the Holocaust is actually appropriate, you really need to think about things.

You should try Solar Eclipse it's similar to Star Fox but with the inclusion of absolutely awesomely terrible 90's FMV's.
Solar Eclipse is okay, but don't expect Star Fox 64, that'd raise expectations too high. The game is the (spiritual) sequel to Total Eclipse, and it's slightly better than that game, but still isn't great. It can be fun for sure, but is average overall, I think, cheesy FMVs aside. I really wish it had analog controls, that would have helped. Too bad it doesn't. The Saturn games on par with Star Fox 64 are Space Harrier and the two Panzer Dragoon games. Space Harrier and Panzer Dragoon are so amazing...

With Starcraft 64, I played the PC version religiously for years, same with Warcraft 2. I own and play Warcraft 2 on the Saturn occasionally but it's pretty amazing how much content they packed on that Starcraft 64 cart. Unlike that crap CnC "port".
Really, don't play any of these three games. Play the PC versions, there is no reason to play RTSes on old consoles. They're nowhere remotely near as good as the real thing.

I will say though, C&C for the N64 plays better than I expected. I think the polygonal graphics overhaul makes it play better than it would with tiny sprites, considering how much lower-rez a '90s TV is than a computer monitor.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Congrats! I'm in the same boat -- so happy to check this one off the list (even if my wallet's still weeping because of it)...

6q0nMwjl.jpg

Great get, I'm kind of glad it's starting to command top dollar like it should have years ago(I got a second copy for $50 in 2006.)
 

IrishNinja

Member
Jamix - you named many of the ones in those genres i was going to, but ill return to it later. in the genres you named, stuff like Astal/etc did come to mind but you clearly had that covered, solid list man


swing and a miss~

Last, if you want a diverse library, you don't want the Saturn either, you want the PS1. The Saturn's library has some huge holes, much like the N64 (though in different genres) -- the Saturn has no racing sims, for example, very few 3d platformers, no answer to 3d Zelda, far fewer RPGs than the PS1, few flight sims (the N64 has almost none either, while the PS1 has plenty), etc. The argument for the Saturn over the PS1 is basically the same one as it is for the N64, except focusing on different genres.

did you read my post? i said PSX was very clearly above both

To say a bit more about this, this is a statement so offensive that you've actually one-upped most of the N64-bashing in those recent N64 threads on Sega-16, which is quite an accomplishment.

If you REALLY think that comparing that to the Holocaust is actually appropriate, you really need to think about things.

that N64 mythology thread was meant to be less of a clinic and more of a dragging you out of plato's cave, but it sadly fell on dead ears. you're lost to us ABF, my cause is about protecting the children now.

also If you REALLY think that comparing the N64 to the PSX and or saturn is actually appropriate, you really need to think about things. etc etc idc idc
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Oh good, give me one.

Would if I could. It was for a friend. I sold him my copy, then regretted it, bought a new one, and gave him that one to get mine back.

Fun fact: we both have the Umi disc.

Is the Japanese version of Cold Fear okay for barely knows any Japanese types? I want it but the EU version is selling for buttloads.

Yep. English voice acting, fairly simple puzzles.
 

Mzo

Member
IrishNinja said:
also If you REALLY think that comparing the N64 to the PSX and or saturn is actually appropriate, you really need to think about things. etc etc idc idc

No one's doubting PS is king that generation. It and the Saturn are still closer together than the N64, left far behind.
 
Solar Eclipse is okay, but don't expect Star Fox 64, that'd raise expectations too high. The game is the (spiritual) sequel to Total Eclipse, and it's slightly better than that game, but still isn't great. It can be fun for sure, but is average overall, I think, cheesy FMVs aside. I really wish it had analog controls, that would have helped. Too bad it doesn't. The Saturn games on par with Star Fox 64 are Space Harrier and the two Panzer Dragoon games. Space Harrier and Panzer Dragoon are so amazing...


Really, don't play any of these three games. Play the PC versions, there is no reason to play RTSes on old consoles. They're nowhere remotely near as good as the real thing.

I will say though, C&C for the N64 plays better than I expected. I think the polygonal graphics overhaul makes it play better than it would with tiny sprites, considering how much lower-rez a '90s TV is than a computer monitor.

I could play the PC version but like I said earlier I have played them for years. I like to go back and play these console ports to see how they were created with a console gamer only in mind. I don't think at this point in time I need to recommend the PC version because that usually is the obvious answer regarding RTS games from the 90's.

I mentioned Solar Eclipse because he didn't care for Panzer Dragoon but mentioned Star Fox. Like you said, it's not a blockbuster like Star Fox, but considering the current prices of most Saturn games, this one could be found pretty cheap and is good fun.
 

IrishNinja

Member
i think it's possible to be underwhelmed by Panzer Dragoon but still find Zwei amazing, there's a big gap between those two for me (even if i did love the former as well, especially for what was a launch title)

No one's doubting PS is king that generation.

oh, there's doubting, sadly
i'm simply trying to keep the history of our timeline properly aligned, even if it comes off as "N64-hating"

I didn't get a PS until around when Parasite Eve came out. That was the last straw.

damn man, you held out!

Save $60 and get the stickerless version

this is precisely what i did! thanks again, CJ
 
Both BUG games (Didn't like either)
Panzer Dragoon (EH. I really didn't feel this one. Starfox 64 and S&P are far far better)
I disagree about these two, I've always quite liked Bug. Yeah, Bug! and its sequel are obnoxiously difficult games, but they're great despite that, and it's very interesting to see an early take on platforming in 3d. As for Panzer Dragoon, it's is an amazing game, with an incredible soundtrack and great gameplay. Actually PD Orta is probably my favorite of the three Panzer Dragoon rail shooters, but both Saturn games are very good.

i think it's possible to be underwhelmed by Panzer Dragoon but still find Zwei amazing, there's a big gap between those two for me (even if i did love the former as well, especially for what was a launch title)
The first game is better than Zwei.

I could play the PC version but like I said earlier I have played them for years. I like to go back and play these console ports to see how they were created with a console gamer only in mind. I don't think at this point in time I need to recommend the PC version because that usually is the obvious answer regarding RTS games from the 90's.
I thought that Blizzard RTSes were the absolute best games that existed from the mid '90s to the mid '00s, and I've never wanted to even touch the console ports of WC2 or SC, I can't imagine them being even remotely as good...

I mentioned Solar Eclipse because he didn't care for Panzer Dragoon but mentioned Star Fox. Like you said, it's not a blockbuster like Star Fox, but considering the current prices of most Saturn games, this one could be found pretty cheap and is good fun.
Ah. I don't know though, if you don't like Panzer Dragoon, is something not on its level like Solar Eclipse going to hold up? You are right about the price though, it's cheap enough to be worth checking out.

did you read my post? i said PSX was very clearly above both
It didn't sound like that, but the rest of my post still stands.

that N64 mythology thread was meant to be less of a clinic and more of a dragging you out of plato's cave
Few things on that list had anything to do with anything I actually believe, you know.

also If you REALLY think that comparing the N64 to the PSX and or saturn is actually appropriate, you really need to think about things. etc etc idc idc
Comparing videogames to the Holocaust is not okay, seriously. You're not helping yourself by trying to be funny about it afterwards.

Also, you continue to try to pretend that your subjective, N64-hating opinions are objective fact, and it's wrong. Objectively the N64 and Saturn are both great consoles with very different libraries.
 

IrishNinja

Member
The first game is better than Zwei.

you're literally the first person ive heard say this, but again, no surprise at this point

It didn't sound like that

never does when you don't listen, bruh

Comparing videogames to the Holocaust is not okay, seriously. You're not helping yourself by trying to be funny about it afterwards.

x2KwTbw.jpg


i compared it to holocaust denial, not the event itself. point still stands idc idc

N64-hating opinions are objective fact.

finally, some progress!

Objectively the N64 and Saturn are both great consoles with very different libraries.

eh, i can agree to this much

Heh, you saved $300 and got the gameless version.

i recall it being...$110 shipped on a sniped auction? no regrets there, again only SF III got away
though Jamix reminded me i wish i could've grabbed Konami Antiques, it looks to have shot up in the time since
 
I don't know Irish and Mzo. Nintendo and Rare were crushing it on the n64, and the two games Treasure made for it would have been reasons to own the system on their own. Even without those the first party lineup alone has several world beaters. I just can't picture a world where the N64 is "far behind" the Saturn in terms of games.
 

IrishNinja

Member
I don't know Irish and Mzo. Nintendo and Rare were crushing it on the n64, and the two games Treasure made for it would have been reasons to own the system on their own. Even without those the first party lineup alone has several world beaters. I just can't picture a world where the N64 is "far behind" the Saturn in terms of games.

yeah, i get that - i think some elements are a bit overvalued but the greats are really great, and i adored the 4 player stuff in high school/college too...also a number of the wrestling games are legit classics for me.

I didn't get to play S&P (so freakin good) until it was on virtual console though, totally imported it years ago. from what ive played i preferred Bangai-O on dreamcast but that doesn't take from it either.

honestly of the beastly Rare library the only one i couldn't get into was Jet Force Gemini, and that may be because i didn't play it in the day (but i'm usually pretty good at contemporizing stuff from eras i grew up in at least). you know which one i slept on but is fucking awesome? Blast Corps, holy crap is that fun.
 
For refrence


Nintendo developed

Animal Crossing
Dr. Mario 64
F-Zero X
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Mario Kart 64
Pocket Monster Stadium
Pokémon Puzzle League2
Pokémon Stadium
Pokémon Stadium 2
Pocket Monsters Stadium:
Star Fox 64
Super Mario 64
1080° Snowboarding
Wave Race 64
Yoshi's Story

Rare Developed

Banjo-Kazooie
Banjo-Tooie
Blast Corps
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Diddy Kong Racing
Donkey Kong 64
GoldenEye 007
Jet Force Gemini
Killer Instinct Gold
Mickey's Speedway USA
Perfect Dark

Treasure Developed

Sin & Punishment
Mischief Makers
Bangai-O (forgot one)

Theres only 5 Nintendo titles I cared for & 6 Rare titles & I've only played Mischief Makers
 

IrishNinja

Member
Theres only 5 Nintendo titles I cared for & 6 Rare titles & I've only played Mischief Makers

oh man, if you dig on-rails shooters, run (do not walk) to wherever you can play Sin & Punishment...it's on Wii VC and can still be imported on the cheap, plus N64 region mods super easy
also part 2 is like a dollar on Wii and fantastic as well

I was rethinking getting a RGB N64 in the future for a second but I really like Bomberman 64.

as a bomberman fan that's one of the ones i never got to play (loved Generations on the GC though), looking forward to it sometime)
 
oh man, if you dig on-rails shooters, run (do not walk) to wherever you can play Sin & Punishment...it's on Wii VC and can still be imported on the cheap, plus N64 region mods super easy
also part 2 is like a dollar on Wii and fantastic as well
)

I own part 2 it's pretty sweet, I just never got around to the first.
 

Jamix012

Member
That list is missing a lot of great Nintendo games like

Super Smash Bros.
Paper Mario
Pilotwings 64
Mario Tennis
Mario Golf
Excitebike 64
Mario Party 1-3
Pokemon Snap
Kirby 64

While they were not developed by Nintendo (they were published), many were developed by the unsung N64 heroes - HAL Labs.

I digress, this is a Saturn thread and the Saturn does have a really cool library too. I want to get more into some of the more hidden gems of it though.
 

gelf

Member
i think it's possible to be underwhelmed by Panzer Dragoon but still find Zwei amazing, there's a big gap between those two for me (even if i did love the former as well, especially for what was a launch title)
I agree with that, I like the first PD more for the music and the art then the gameplay which feels a bit off to me. Zwei is better to play in every way and I only really appreciated the first game after the sequels got me more into the universe.

As for 20 year old console warz, in terms of overall library its PS1 > Saturn >> N64 for me. I'd even have put the Saturn slightly ahead in the early days thanks to first party output but after if died the PS1 just got more and more classics and wins. As for N64 it doesn't really cover the genres I care about. Not as well as the other two at least.
 
I really dropped the ball on picking up Saturn games. I typically buy any good ones that I've come across in person (Nights, PD 1+2+Saga, Shining the Holy Ark, Virtual Hydlide, Darius Gaiden, a few others) but I practically never run into Saturn games in the wild. I just picked up Shining Force III and MKR, but I had to resort to online for those.

I do need to figure out a list of really solid titles to look for. RPGs are definitely my first priority but it's those other titles that have me stumped. I've got a pretty huge PS1 collection and I'm not too interested in picking up any multiplatform titles even if they're better on the Saturn -- especially with how (understandably) pricey Saturn collecting is right now.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
I was lucky enough to have a close friend with an N64, so anything I wanted to play on that(which admittedly wasn't much), I just went over there to play. Mostly KI, Starfox, and Mario 64. Also finished Shadows of the Empire in its entirety there.

Says a lot that I have four N64 games, and that's all I need. :p
(Blast Corps, Starfox, SotE, and Rogue Squadron.)
 

MikeMyers

Member
A lot of people quoted me defending the CD, so I guess that could have been kept. I'd still say 32x was kinda pointless.

As for gaming library, I'm a fighting game fan, so Saturn ranks higher than the N64 for me. I could see people preferring the N64 though.
 

Celine

Member
wtf is going on here ???

thread moved to community, people talking about N64 instead of the beloved Saturn....
Yeah, at first I thought I had clicked on the wrong thread.
If there are personal matters to settle then should be done through private messages.
 

IrishNinja

Member
i haven't been following - did that SD drive thing ever pan out? gunsmith & others on here always say it's only a matter of time for our disc based systems & such, i know the GC one was coming around but this one could be huge too, if legit

If there are personal matters to settle then should be done through private messages.

iv9KUqvs6WR9Y.gif


we in community now son, even godwin can't save you
in retrospect flat earthers would've worked just as well but i regrets nothing
 
So, for around a few hundred bucks, i just picked up some heavy hitters for Saturn imports as well as some random stuff:

Tokimeki Memorial - Taisen Tokkaedama
Pulirula Arcade Gears
Pretty Fighter X
Sotsugyou II: Neo Generation

but the big stuff was:
Silhouette Mirage
The Game Paradise
Kingdom GrandPrix
Time Bokan
Twinkle Star Sprites
AND TRYRUSH DEPPY

I'm hyped.
 

Mzo

Member
Oh shit Twinkle Star Sprites! I thought I got it in a bundle a couple of years ago but it was the DC version =P Still awesome!
 
that's a great haul man, congrats! still holding out for a good price on Mirage

Paid 40, was happy with that. Just glad to have the superior version as oppose to my old PS1 copy.

Also, anyone who really knows imports has told me Pulirula Arcade Gears is the 2nd weirdest game on the system, next to Cho Aniki, so i'm excited to see what is up with it.
 

Mzo

Member
It's gorgeous but super boring. Enjoy.

I slept through a Game Paradise VHS limited edition auction that ended at $26. Nobody wants to pay a lot for that version, too bad so many are being held hostage by BINs.

Baller status: confirmed. Found the wheel today at a thrift store. Default arcade settings, ofc.
 
Picked this up at a retro game meetup yesterday. One of the most vibrant and colorful Saturn games I've ever seen! I died on Level 3 (I suck) but I'm excited to dig into it more later.

Whoa,

I've never seen one without a weird congealed cover insert. Nice pickup! Game is gorgeous too if you love the low-poly aesthetic.
Interestingly, Bulk Slash was made by the team that made Hagane on SNES.
 

IrishNinja

Member
I offered $30 to hit-japan last week and he accepted it. His shipping prices are a tad expensive though so I bundled a bunch of other stuff with it.

aw man, what the hell...i offered him just shy of $40 a few weeks ago and he never took it! congrats though man.
 
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