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Sega Saturn Appreciation and Emulation Thread
- Thread starter Seik
- Start date
The 3D museum part of Sonic Jam is a way better representation.
Let's see, 32-bit Sonic.
-Sonic the Fighters (Arcade only fighting game)
-Sonic 3D Blast (Buffed up from Genesis port, includes new special stages)
-Sonic into Dreams (Minigame from Christmas NiGHTS)
-Sonic R (3D Racing game on Saturn)
-Sonic Jam (Genesis compilation with 3D minigame)
Missing anything?
-Sonic the Fighters (Arcade only fighting game)
-Sonic 3D Blast (Buffed up from Genesis port, includes new special stages)
-Sonic into Dreams (Minigame from Christmas NiGHTS)
-Sonic R (3D Racing game on Saturn)
-Sonic Jam (Genesis compilation with 3D minigame)
Missing anything?
SpikedGunner
Member
There is a looong history with the Sonic X-treme development, I think what hurt them the most (besides Naka being arrogant as usual) was when SoJ executives came to STU and judge the status of the their project on an old build that wasn't meant for them and weren't impressed even though they had already been further along in the project...thus they had to start over because of that.
So I noticed recently that using my SCART to Y-U-V converter gave some sort of weird image issue with my HDTV (to be fair I haven't played my Saturn in a long time) like some kind weird banding....anyways today after trying my spare SCART cable to see if it was the cabie, I saw no change, then tried the old CRT Sharp that I have in my house.
Upon hooking that up...holy jeeze, it looks great, like damn...maybe I should find a way to keep it there. Now if only my OG Xbox wouldn't give me images issues with that same CRT TV.
SpikedGunner
Member
Sonic/SEGA retro are also a good place to start...at least for the Saturn Sonic stuff.
sixteen-bit
Member
eidolon's inn?
Bernie Stolar dropped the ball with the RAM cartridge.
SpikedGunner
Member
and pretty much every other 2D game that might have helped the Saturn in the West.
You can still find it archived here https://web.archive.org/web/20140702141428/http://www.eidolons-inn.net/tiki-index.php?page=SegaBase
The text was later cleaned up and enhanced and published as a book http://www.amazon.com/dp/1494288354/?tag=neogaf0e-20 that I did not read.
http://www.seganerds.com/2014/01/18...a-enhanced-edition-history-book-now-shipping/
The text was later cleaned up and enhanced and published as a book http://www.amazon.com/dp/1494288354/?tag=neogaf0e-20 that I did not read.
http://www.seganerds.com/2014/01/18...a-enhanced-edition-history-book-now-shipping/
SpikedGunner
Member
huh, I have the Audio book of that, maybe I should give it a try once I finally finish Ron Perlman's Autobiography.
StevieWhite
Member
Guys, I just started playing VF Kids... I had always heard it was a good looking game, but I am truly floored. It's up there with the best looking games on the system.
https://youtu.be/oeZejyofGlc
https://youtu.be/oeZejyofGlc
VF Kids, like VF Remix (which apparently did get an arcade release for some reason) ran on the SEGA STV arcade hardware. Sort of similar to the NEOGEO, you could change games just by swapping game carts, but unlike NEOGEO carts, STV games are pretty cheap these days. Same thing with the arcade board! Most importantly, the STV itself is effectively identical to the Saturn hardware, making console conversions of these games nearly arcade perfect. And unlike VF Remix, VF Kids runs at 60fps, so I'm sure it's a good looking game!
sixteen-bit
Member
Tell that to Groove On Fight
I wish they delayed the game until after the 4MB cart was released so they could support it. I'm sure it woud've been arcade perfect then.
cj_iwakura
Member
He tried as best he could, then of all people, Sega of Japan handed it all over to that moron Stolar, who basically buried the remains.
I love the logic of hiring a man who pushed exclusively 3d games to work on a console that was almost exclusively 2d games. The Saturn's chances in north America would have been twice as good if he localized even half of the best 2d titles. Not gutting the system a year early might have helped too.
Agent Unknown
Member
Several years ago lost-levels.org did an in depth behind the scenes story on the brutal development ordeal Sonic XTreme's dev team at SoA went through. These guys were put through the meat grinder and thrown under the bus repeatedly with zero support from SoJ. Former dev team members Mike Wallis and Chris Senn dished all the painful dirt in detail at the link below (confirmed Naka is a top shelf jerk):
http://www.lostlevels.org/200403/200403-xtreme.shtml
http://www.lostlevels.org/200403/200403-xtreme.shtml
A Black Falcon
Member
How about SegaSonic the Hedgehog, the 1993 arcade game with the trackball control? Does that count? I think it runs on a 32-bit arcade board?
Yes, that was the worst thing by far for the project because they only did that aborted switch over to the NiGHTS engine after that disastrous corporate visit, without that meddling they wouldn't have had to do that. Maybe the project would have fallen apart anyway, but the only real chance the game had for release in 1996 was to stick to the original plan and not mess with it as those executives did.
The recent Sonic X-Treme builds leak actually adds some interesting things to this -- Senn doesn't say much good about some of the work being done by another team on the game, but the builds show they got farther than we knew. Most of what we know about the game, those builds aside, comes from Senn, and he's said a lot of very valuable info about the game and worked on the best-known version, but he didn't know everything about the other teams that did Sonic X-Treme-related work.
I entirely agree, but Kalinske has some critics, particularly of his role as portrayed in the Console Wars book, as you can see in this Sega-16 thread: http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?29801-Is-Tom-Kalinske-full-of-it There are also some people on Sega-16 who dislike him for other reasons (because they hate the Western-developed games he pushed for, etc.). I think Kalinske was great though, he was the only great leader Sega of America ever had.
Ooh, forgot Knuckles Chaotix. Sonic may have missed the 32-bit generation, but Knuckles made it!
Kalinske is only human, but I thought he did a great job. Genesis is my favorite Sega system by far. It's a shame that Sega of Japan pushed him out by the 32-bit generation.
Not a fan of Peter Moore?
Kalinske is only human, but I thought he did a great job. Genesis is my favorite Sega system by far. It's a shame that Sega of Japan pushed him out by the 32-bit generation.
Not a fan of Peter Moore?
A Black Falcon
Member
Moore did okay, but he had a doomed job from the start, Sega was too far gone to be saved. I guess I think of "great" as not only someone who was a good leader, but also a successful one, and Moore couldn't pull off the impossible and save Sega. That he helped push Sega to go software-only is also a possible negative; even if it was financially probably the right move, software-only Sega kind of fell apart after not too long...
Kalinske, on the other hand, came in to an okay but not great situation (they were ahead of the TG16, but behind the NES, and the SNES was coming soon) and helped make Sega #1 for a short time, before a bunch of factors combined to quickly erode away everything he'd built.
A Black Falcon
Member
Good point, they really should have released their post-DC games on all three platforms, not just one of them for each series. I'm sure it'd have helped sales quite a bit.
JonathanNemo
Member
I remember Sonic Team's quality slipping quite a bit and PSO being stranded on the one console that didn't really have an online plan while Capcom was making smarter moves with MonHun.
Donno why Skies didn't get that planned PS2 port. Could be that Sega's software teams weren't yet accustomed to multi platform development.
And I heard on the down low a decade ago so who knows if it's accurate that the only reason Panzer Dragoon got an Xbox sequel had to do with one of Microsoft's executives specifically requesting a new Panzer Dragoon.
A GameCube port would have been nice, I agree. However, 3D rail shooters were already falling out of fashion; Orta's biggest complaint at the time was that it was on rails, and Nintendo seemed to want to do just about anything but release a new StarFox that was entirely on rails.
In retrospect, PS2/GC/Xbox? What a weird generation. Way too much of a push for clumsy open world games and not enough respect for straightforward arcade-style action. I guess I have mobile, in part, to thank for quick arcade experiences getting sort of rediscovered.
SpikedGunner
Member
To be fair, PSO also got a port on the OG XBox so it didn't stay on one console for long (I'd wager the original decision for the Gamecube port and Ep. 3 was simply either Sonic Team getting familiar with it's development more or Naka's preference).
Skies got it's PS2 port canceled because of technical issues, mainly I think because the PS2 couldn't handle the textures. Maybe PD Orta might have done better as a multi platform, with the Xbox version being the obvious pretty one.
not after the shit he pulled with Streets of Rage and his boner for Microsoft didn't help anyone but himself (especially when he gave up Shenmue 2 to xbox).
Skies got it's PS2 port canceled because of technical issues, mainly I think because the PS2 couldn't handle the textures. Maybe PD Orta might have done better as a multi platform, with the Xbox version being the obvious pretty one.
not after the shit he pulled with Streets of Rage and his boner for Microsoft didn't help anyone but himself (especially when he gave up Shenmue 2 to xbox).
JonathanNemo
Member
Funny, I had a moment after I wrote that where I was seriously confused with what happened with PSO Xbox.
I remember buying the GameCube "Plus" re-release, which was already hard to find when it was new in the US of A, but the Xbox port kept on showing up in pre-owned and used bins. At best, the only thing that seemed "wrong" with it was the curious decision to require Xbox Live for offline play. Besides that, I am getting "old" and can't remember much else.
Anywho, I wish Skies had a better chance, probably would have found more of an audience than PD during that generation if it wasn't for Sega's limited releases and lack of marketing without the support of platform holders. Third party Sega was stee-range in its early years. Creative at times, but strange.
Bringing this back to PD and Sega Saturn, I'm curious if we could alert Nintendo to the franchise. They seem to have warmed up to 3D rail shooters after StarFox 64 and Sin & Punishment sold well on the Wii Virtual Console.
And the few peeps I knew of from Sega of America who were pushing for PD have since left the company... not sure about the Microsoft side, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Microsofties that liked the franchise flew the coop as well. Phantom Dust fiasco and all.
I remember buying the GameCube "Plus" re-release, which was already hard to find when it was new in the US of A, but the Xbox port kept on showing up in pre-owned and used bins. At best, the only thing that seemed "wrong" with it was the curious decision to require Xbox Live for offline play. Besides that, I am getting "old" and can't remember much else.
Anywho, I wish Skies had a better chance, probably would have found more of an audience than PD during that generation if it wasn't for Sega's limited releases and lack of marketing without the support of platform holders. Third party Sega was stee-range in its early years. Creative at times, but strange.
Bringing this back to PD and Sega Saturn, I'm curious if we could alert Nintendo to the franchise. They seem to have warmed up to 3D rail shooters after StarFox 64 and Sin & Punishment sold well on the Wii Virtual Console.
And the few peeps I knew of from Sega of America who were pushing for PD have since left the company... not sure about the Microsoft side, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Microsofties that liked the franchise flew the coop as well. Phantom Dust fiasco and all.
JonathanNemo
Member
Tried looking for a source on that Microsoft/PDO thang but I haven't had much luck this morning. It might have even dated back to the fansite Die Welt von Panzer Dragoon, or it could be just some dumb dream I had. whatevers.
Instead, I found the original copywritten content of Sega of America's Panzer Dragoon Orta site, complete with some neat Panzer Dragoon series trivia at the bottom. Thank you Internet Archive.
Also a confirmation from one who would know as to why the Skies port wasn't completed for PS2; it was left to an outsourced team.
Instead, I found the original copywritten content of Sega of America's Panzer Dragoon Orta site, complete with some neat Panzer Dragoon series trivia at the bottom. Thank you Internet Archive.
Also a confirmation from one who would know as to why the Skies port wasn't completed for PS2; it was left to an outsourced team.
What'd he do with Streets of Rage? And yeah, his boner for Microsoft was too much.
I think stuff like Jet Set Radio Future would have sold better on GC and PS2 instead of Xbox.
JonathanNemo
Member
All bits considered, JSRF got an audience from being a pack in game and Orta got a rather splashy ad campaign during the Feb-March times when it released, when MS had little else new to show that their Halo console wasn't just a Halo console.
Why Sega never bothered doing as much as a low budget visual novel or a Happy Meal tie-in after all these years is beyond me. Both games individually sold more than any one of the Tony Shining games, and they've been trucking along with Tony Shining for more than a decade now.
That part, doesn't make as much sense to me. I guess those anime statues and hug pillows must really be worth it. And in light of that, I don't know if more sales really would have made a difference.
Seeee gaaaaa
Why Sega never bothered doing as much as a low budget visual novel or a Happy Meal tie-in after all these years is beyond me. Both games individually sold more than any one of the Tony Shining games, and they've been trucking along with Tony Shining for more than a decade now.
That part, doesn't make as much sense to me. I guess those anime statues and hug pillows must really be worth it. And in light of that, I don't know if more sales really would have made a difference.
Seeee gaaaaa
sixteen-bit
Member
Gotta be the generation where it's hardest to find a favorite for me. DC, PS2, XB, GCN: all fire.
if I'm being honest PS2 is the clear winner for exclusives, XB for multiplats and GC for Metroid
Only generation I felt it essential to own every system. Sega's crazy decision to have exclusives on each of them was part of it though. I was lucky to have enough disposable income to do that back then, I'm sure many others didn't though. They should never have split their fanbase like that.
This just proves how amazing that console gen was!!!
cj_iwakura
Member
The exclusives they did land, though... Panzer Dragoon Orta and JSRF on XB, Killer7 and the Star Wars games on GC... fire.
(Neither me nor Suda51 consider K7 multiplat, and neither should you.
)SpikedGunner
Member
Simply put, they were developing Streets of Rage 4 for the Dreamcast, however Moore (and I assume a few other execs at SoA) decided it wasn't going to sell because they had no idea of the franchise's history. Seems petty, but quite frankly just another a reason I'm not really fond of him.
That's a shame.
Although I was more upset that Eternal Champion, Sonic, and Vectorman never got a proper sequel on the Saturn as opposed to Streets of Rage on Dreamcast.
EDIT: From Moore's wikipedia:
Moore disclosed to GamingSteve.com that at a security checkpoint at Chicago O'Hare International Airport, a TSA security agent said "I don't need to see your passport. You're the asshole that gave away Shenmue to Xbox." Many blame Moore for using Sega as an career ladder while misusing Sega on his own perspective"[4]
Didn't know you were a security agent, SpikedGunner.
Although I was more upset that Eternal Champion, Sonic, and Vectorman never got a proper sequel on the Saturn as opposed to Streets of Rage on Dreamcast.
EDIT: From Moore's wikipedia:
Moore disclosed to GamingSteve.com that at a security checkpoint at Chicago O'Hare International Airport, a TSA security agent said "I don't need to see your passport. You're the asshole that gave away Shenmue to Xbox." Many blame Moore for using Sega as an career ladder while misusing Sega on his own perspective"[4]
Didn't know you were a security agent, SpikedGunner.
SpikedGunner
Member
My secret is out, I also whispered into his ear "Yuji Naka says 'Fuck you too buddy!'"
JonathanNemo
Member
Very recently, my PDS discs have been starting to show problems streaming FMVs. 1 and 2 so far, hopefully not more.
I've been seriously investigating SD card aftermarket options to keep playing this game. The discs themselves look fine, and I haven't been very rough on them.
Maybe it's that I've been playing this game one too many times?
Bloody well deserves it.Very recently, my PDS discs have been starting to show problems streaming FMVs. 1 and 2 so far, hopefully not more.
I've been seriously investigating SD card aftermarket options to keep playing this game. The discs themselves look fine, and I haven't been very rough on them.
Maybe it's that I've been playing this game one too many times?
I got the PDS demo disc (PAL) before plunging on the full game, and on that I had to skip one of the FMVs or the game would invariable boot me to the "reading disc" screen. Disc 1 of my PDS set runs fine, Disc 3 gave me some trouble and 4 has been heartbreaking. Sometimes I would have to wait upwards of fifteen seconds for a line of recorded dialog to load and play.
I have a really stupid question to ask here :
Yesterday i start to play Shining Of the Holy Ark.... and the game have insane slowdown. My question is does the 4mg memory can help to prevent slowdown or this is only compatible with most of the Capcom Fighting game ?
Thank you
Yesterday i start to play Shining Of the Holy Ark.... and the game have insane slowdown. My question is does the 4mg memory can help to prevent slowdown or this is only compatible with most of the Capcom Fighting game ?
Thank you
JonathanNemo
Member
Not that stupid!
The RAM carts only work for games that support it. It's great for the latter day Capcom fighters but mostly just a nice looking see-through brick for everything else.
Thank for the answer ! I'll try to tolerate them .... this is freaking insane that they haven't optimize the game to prevent this or reduce them....
Shadow Hog
Member
Standards were different in the mid-90s.
I mean, they probably figured that since it's a turn-based RPG without any form of real-time reaction required, they could get away with a mediocre/bad framerate. Frankly... they were right.
I mean, they probably figured that since it's a turn-based RPG without any form of real-time reaction required, they could get away with a mediocre/bad framerate. Frankly... they were right.
I think Kalinske did an amazing job, but the stuff he says in Console Wars about Sonic having fangs, a collar, etc. is so weird. I've seen the early concept images in person, and they had none of that stuff. If anything, early Sonic looked even more like Felix the Cat.