cj_iwakura
Member
My first 1CC was Castle Shikigami 2. Quite proud of that.
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Sega Saturn Appreciation and Emulation Thread
- Thread starter Seik
- Start date
My first 1CC was Castle Shikigami 2. Quite proud of that.
Valkyria
Banned
Awesome game.
cj_iwakura
Member
I love the series so much I fan translated the original.
Shadow Hog
Member
So this came in Wednesday:
Spreading this across this topic and the Genesis one.
So, Dragon Force.
Well, okay, that's not ENTIRELY true, since that LP cj_iwakura had over on Penny Arcade was a decent primer on how the basic gameplay works, but nevertheless I'm always kinda thinking I'm doing something wrong at any given moment.
I'm doing Wein's scenario right now (mostly because there's a nice guide in the manual for about as far as I'd gotten to help me get acquainted to the UI). Captured four generals so far - Hikkis from Marymere, Hilga and Rock from a village up north, and this fourth guy who had decided he was gonna take the main castle head-on on his lonesome, but ran across Marymere first while I had some generals guarding it (let Hikkis take him out). Hikkis and Rock seem rather grumpy, although the rest of my generals seem okay all things told. I wanna go send Hilga and Rock against that fat guy they were complaining about, but one of Madruk's army seem to have popped up and started attacking him first; not eager to face them on, as I recall CJ always stressed staying out of their way unless you were forced to take them on.
Battles are interesting, although I'm kinda clueless at times. Like, I'm not 100% sure what the various tactics really do. If I chose Offensive formation, that leaves me with some units hovering around my general to defend them; all fine and dandy, except I was in a situation where the enemy general (Hikkis, I think?) had taken out all the units that ran over to attack him, and since all of HIS units were dead, we were kind of at a standstill. I think I got him to retreat when I sent a Sonic Boom his way, but man, that was awkward.
Still, I've spent an hour on it so far. This could grow on me once I'm surer of what the hell I'm doing.
Spreading this across this topic and the Genesis one.
So, Dragon Force.
Well, okay, that's not ENTIRELY true, since that LP cj_iwakura had over on Penny Arcade was a decent primer on how the basic gameplay works, but nevertheless I'm always kinda thinking I'm doing something wrong at any given moment.
I'm doing Wein's scenario right now (mostly because there's a nice guide in the manual for about as far as I'd gotten to help me get acquainted to the UI). Captured four generals so far - Hikkis from Marymere, Hilga and Rock from a village up north, and this fourth guy who had decided he was gonna take the main castle head-on on his lonesome, but ran across Marymere first while I had some generals guarding it (let Hikkis take him out). Hikkis and Rock seem rather grumpy, although the rest of my generals seem okay all things told. I wanna go send Hilga and Rock against that fat guy they were complaining about, but one of Madruk's army seem to have popped up and started attacking him first; not eager to face them on, as I recall CJ always stressed staying out of their way unless you were forced to take them on.
Battles are interesting, although I'm kinda clueless at times. Like, I'm not 100% sure what the various tactics really do. If I chose Offensive formation, that leaves me with some units hovering around my general to defend them; all fine and dandy, except I was in a situation where the enemy general (Hikkis, I think?) had taken out all the units that ran over to attack him, and since all of HIS units were dead, we were kind of at a standstill. I think I got him to retreat when I sent a Sonic Boom his way, but man, that was awkward.
Still, I've spent an hour on it so far. This could grow on me once I'm surer of what the hell I'm doing.
You can use the Melee command if you run into a situation where the enemy general has no troops left and you only have defensive troops left circling around you. That will override any formation/orders they already have and make all your troops go attack everything in sight.
IrishNinja
Member
so, Burning Rangers...that first level, it's hard knowing you need to keep going higher unless Chris tells you so sometimes, once you get used to it & the damn camera it's pretty dope
after that cutscene following the level 1 boss i'm guessing Naka & crew were Eva fans at the time
after that cutscene following the level 1 boss i'm guessing Naka & crew were Eva fans at the time
Genesis Knight
Member
Sega did the Eva toy line as well. Saturns showed up in some Eva episodes.
IrishNinja
Member
man, i was a sega fan watching mad anime in that era, kills me that i didn't notice these things
cj_iwakura
Member
People playing Wein's scenario makes me sad. It's incredibly dull compared to, well, all the others.
It's almost always best to play defensively, especially if the enemy general has a troop advantage.
Keep a formation like Protect or at least Offense and put them in Standby, then let them come to you. Once the majority of the enemy's troops are dead, THEN rush the general.
If the general retreats and escapes(and believe me they will), dispatch immediately afterward to chase them down and you'll catch up with them. Then you should be able to finish them off easily with a quick special move or two.
I'm surprised. Maybe it's because I had heard from futurematt5 and Classic Game Room how blisteringly difficult Salamander 2 is, but it's seriously not that difficult. I can already comfortably get to the stage 3 boss without losing a ship.
Nice pickups!!!
And yeah, when I found out my roommate had Dragon Force this whole time and booted it up.....I had NO idea at all. I need to get back around to it sometime. Your descriptions of your actions make me want to play it right now actually! ;D
Shadow Hog
Member
Ah, yes, that'd be useful. I'll make sure to do that next time.
It kind of annoys me that the manual says "See p38 for information on what the tactics do!", so I turn to p38 and get the starter strategy guide for Wein instead. p36 has details on the formations and has lists for the tactics that go with 'em, but doesn't actually detail what those tactics will make your units do... I am assuming the "Retreat" tactic is distinct from retreating from the battle as a whole, though.
Yeah, I knew about your general disdain for Wein, but I'd rather make my own mind up about him, honestly. Admittedly was tempted to use Junon first, but maybe for my second run-through...
Anyway, I'll keep those in mind. I knew about the chasing-the-runaways strategy from your LP, at least, although the one time I tried didn't exactly pan out quite right. I think I get it now, but I didn't realize you had to click the army you formed and choose Direct to get them moving anywhere when the guy says "select a destination for your troops"; I assumed I could immediately select the castle and they'd go on their way. As such, Hilga and Rock had enough time to wander off to another town and double back before I managed to intercept them. Oh well, same end result...
This one, pretty sure. I kinda wish I got the one with Astea on it (I like green <_<), but I wasn't feeling particularly choosy, especially since I had already ordered Flink from the same guy, and felt like saving him a little on shipping (Free Shipping on my end, so).
Was half joking, cool your jets fellas. While you could combine the buttons, I've found it less that optimal, but to each their own.
Maybe it's because VF uses 3 buttons + combinations, but being able to access every attack in the game without having to move my thumb, index or middle finger off a button will always be preferable to mapping combinations to me.
Yup. I prefer to use a Saturn pad and am more used to Street Fighter style button layouts. To each their own.
In fact, I have 3 Saturn pads I use regularly.
1 Saturn specific, 1 PS2 specific, and one USB, which I use on PS3/Mac. Love me some Saturn Pad
Heres a pic of the PS2 version:
sixteen-bit
Member
I've always wanted that purple Vampire Collection PS2 Saturn controller. A GAF member was selling one at a decent price a year or two ago but someone snatched it before me.
Same here, I picked it up not too long ago, but was at a steep price. To me, with limited space, I use pads for shmups and fighters and getting this was high on my list of wants. Payed around $90 iirc.
BR flips the fuck out near the end into full crazy anime mode. It's pretty rad.
ss_lemonade
Member
I remember his map BGM sounding pretty nice (heck I remember the entire DF soundtrack being awesome lol)
cj_iwakura
Member
Oh, the entire OST is fantastic. The other scenarios are just rife with plot twists, and Wein's never really changes much outside of generic hero out to save the world.
Canadian Psycho
Banned
Anybody played Psychic Killer Taromaru? I checked some videos on YouTube and it looks pretty cool/over the top. Definitely got a Shinobi/Kabuki Quantum Fighter/Hagane vibe. It's a shame that the soundtrack seems a bit lacking and, good Lord, that price tag...
sixteen-bit
Member
Taromaru kinda has an Alisia Dragoon vibe, yeah?
That prohibitive pricetag, goddamn.
That prohibitive pricetag, goddamn.
kunonabi
Member
bad pic I know.
I also have Enemy Zero and the US version of Marvel Super Heroes in my closest somewhere. If anybody wants those let me know.
I'm not the biggest SS collector so it will probably won't grow much from here.I plan on picking up Last Bronx and I might grab DBZ UB22 and the Panzer Dragoon games if the mood ever strikes.
My greatest desire is one of those white saturn consoles. I can't honestly justify the purchase but damn is that one sexy console.
cj_iwakura
Member
bad pic I know.
I also have Enemy Zero and the US version of Marvel Super Heroes in my closest somewhere. If anybody wants those let me know.
I'm not the biggest SS collector so it will probably won't grow much from here.I plan on picking up Last Bronx and I might grab DBZ UB22 and the Panzer Dragoon games if the mood ever strikes.
My greatest desire is one of those white saturn consoles. I can't honestly justify the purchase but damn is that one sexy console.
Soul Hackers and Devil Summoner deserve to be together! Nice, all the same.
kunonabi
Member
haha, I knew you were going to say something about that.
cj_iwakura
Member
I hope the Saturn version gets fan translated, but that's probably never going to happen.
Fun fact: Tom once said the demon dialogues were really dull and straight forward in the original version. Guess Atlus USA spiced it up a bit.
cj_iwakura
Member
I beat the Saturn version while I knew it was coming. It's still very much worth playing, and you have the advantage of a US version to work with!
The orders aren't too complicated. They're mostly the same for each formation. Most of the formations will only let you order/command the front line troops, though there are some exceptions where you can control the defensive ones.
The main orders are:
Advance: Move towards the enemy general side
Retreat: Move towards your player general side
Disperse: Split up and move away from the middle (troops go to top and bottom of screen)
Regroup: Move to the middle of the screen.
Standby: Stand in one place
Melee: Command all troops to go balls out and kill everything in sight. They will try to kill all the enemy troops first if there is any remaining and then go for the enemy general. You lose command of your troops after using this.
Special commands depending on formation:
Raid (Raid formation only): Sends "Raid" group across the top of the screen the enemy general.
Recover (Protect formation only). Sends "Reserve" group to fill in holes left by lost troops.
There's some others too like Squad. But those should be easy to figure out.
You don't need to Direct your army to chase after the generals running away. What I do is pause the game really quickly once it goes to the map. Then I'll deploy my troops and just have them standing at the castle. The enemy will run away for a little bit, but you'll get into a battle with them. I guess if you do it too slow they will be able to run off.
Also, if you know those generals are weak with no troops, let your other unused generals fight them for an easy victory. You can get one medal per victorious general per week which helps them increase their troop count if you award it to them.
Yup. I prefer to use a Saturn pad and am more used to Street Fighter style button layouts. To each their own.
In fact, I have 3 Saturn pads I use regularly.
1 Saturn specific, 1 PS2 specific, and one USB, which I use on PS3/Mac. Love me some Saturn Pad
Heres a pic of the PS2 version:
Which Saturn USB controllers did you have? The original SLS-made ones, or the cheap ones that are all over ebay now? I had 2 of those Vampire Collection PS2 controllers when Play-Asia was getting rid of them for $15 a piece or whatever. I ended up selling them to some SRK people a year or two later. Kinda miss em now.
So am I missing any vertizontal Saturn shmups besides these ones?
Radiant Silvergun
Soukyugurentai
Layer Section
Layer Section II
Twinkle Star Sprites (I guess)
cj_iwakura
Member
I think I'm in a Dragon Force mood now. May fire up my J-PSN copy again to get at those uber bosses. (I'd stream it if there's interest, but it'd be SD and such.)
cj_iwakura
Member
Cool beans. My PS3 tends to lag a bit, but older games are usually okay, so we'll see.
Still setting up, but my menu is live for what it's worth.
cj_iwakura
Member
Yep, I still have ustream, but Twitch's been working easier as of late.
theSlacker
Member
I am so confused during every part of watching you play that game.
cj_iwakura
Member
I have beaten it many, many times, so I skip a lot of stuff. It's really not that complicated. All about troop movement and knowing when to invade and when to bail out.
Do you get something for playing all the scenarios in Dragon Force?
Also its got some great music for a SRPG, and I really wish SRPGs today (much like Yggdra Union as well) would adopt the multiple fighters on screen in a battle scene. Just makes everything feel so alive.
Battle for the Castle
Duel
...and still looking for a manual lol.
Also its got some great music for a SRPG, and I really wish SRPGs today (much like Yggdra Union as well) would adopt the multiple fighters on screen in a battle scene. Just makes everything feel so alive.
Battle for the Castle
Duel
...and still looking for a manual lol.
cj_iwakura
Member
Nope, only for clearing one, which unlocks Tradnor and Fandaria, respectively the easiest and hardest campaigns. (Or vice versa, depending on how you play.)
They also have great stories.
They're all worth playing for the most part, I just find Wein's incredibly dull.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I think you unlock minor things in the PS2 version for clearing each scenario, but it's not anything noteworthy. Probably something in the item/character/etc database specific to it. Can't remember.
Tradnor's scenario is the easiest or hardest in the game, depending on whether you already know how it plays out and how to use that to your advantage. That goes for the whole game in general, though, to be honest. Once you know how to exploit the battle AI in all its various ways the whole thing's a cakewalk. I never even bother using crests anymore when I play it, or even boosting the troop count for anything but the characters' default troops, even for characters like Teiris who virtually need it.
One day I kind of want to see whether I can beat it without handing out a single award.
Tradnor's scenario is the easiest or hardest in the game, depending on whether you already know how it plays out and how to use that to your advantage. That goes for the whole game in general, though, to be honest. Once you know how to exploit the battle AI in all its various ways the whole thing's a cakewalk. I never even bother using crests anymore when I play it, or even boosting the troop count for anything but the characters' default troops, even for characters like Teiris who virtually need it.
One day I kind of want to see whether I can beat it without handing out a single award.
Which Saturn USB controllers did you have? The original SLS-made ones, or the cheap ones that are all over ebay now? I had 2 of those Vampire Collection PS2 controllers when Play-Asia was getting rid of them for $15 a piece or whatever. I ended up selling them to some SRK people a year or two later. Kinda miss em now.
The SLS. Apparently they are getting harder and harder to find, At least when I was looking to buy.
cj_iwakura
Member
I think Madruk and the Acolytes would be impossible.
Dark Octave
Banned
I regret not getting a Saturn back then.
I need to get some Saturn games now.
I need to get some Saturn games now.
theSlacker
Member
Sorry to bring up a topic from a few pages back but wanted to make sure I was clear on some stuff, cable wise.
The 21 pin rgb Japanese scart cables are just for things like the xrgb series of video processor and should be avoided unless that is what you are going for. The scart format to get would be the euro rgb ones, as there isn't "US" standard for it, but I would need to make sure to get a cable that has the "Saturn" end being for the "US" system (well provided that I am using a US system) since it is a different plug for other regions. Is this all correct?
Assuming the previous statement is true is it the same for other systems, specifically the SNES, Sega Genesis/CD, and Playstation 1, which are systems I would also like to do the same for? Guess that question may be beyond this thread, but I ask because while the SNES cords that ebay seller (retro_console_accessories) has listed are marked as US version, there are a like 6 for each model Genesis. None with region marking. Half of which look to be for the 21 pin scart, but then the rest just have ascending prices and some labeled "raw sync". Which brings the next question, what is the deal with "raw sync"?
Moving on to the audio. I noticed that that rgb to yuv box doesn't have any audio out on the "component" side. Does that mean that I would have to make sure to get cables that have the 2 extra rca cables coming out/get a switch box with audio out as part of it if I was to use it? Or did I miss something?
And the last question. Say I have a TV that natively accepts RGB, like some of the Sony PVM monitors, but have BNC inputs for it instead of SCART. Is there someone out there that makes Saturn to BNC rgb cables so I can just skip the whole scart thing altogether?
Geez sorry for all the questions.
Edit: Well guess that wasn't the last question. Seems that seller sold out of the Saturn cables. Anyone happen to know how often they restock? Thanks again, friendly friends.
The 21 pin rgb Japanese scart cables are just for things like the xrgb series of video processor and should be avoided unless that is what you are going for. The scart format to get would be the euro rgb ones, as there isn't "US" standard for it, but I would need to make sure to get a cable that has the "Saturn" end being for the "US" system (well provided that I am using a US system) since it is a different plug for other regions. Is this all correct?
Assuming the previous statement is true is it the same for other systems, specifically the SNES, Sega Genesis/CD, and Playstation 1, which are systems I would also like to do the same for? Guess that question may be beyond this thread, but I ask because while the SNES cords that ebay seller (retro_console_accessories) has listed are marked as US version, there are a like 6 for each model Genesis. None with region marking. Half of which look to be for the 21 pin scart, but then the rest just have ascending prices and some labeled "raw sync". Which brings the next question, what is the deal with "raw sync"?
Moving on to the audio. I noticed that that rgb to yuv box doesn't have any audio out on the "component" side. Does that mean that I would have to make sure to get cables that have the 2 extra rca cables coming out/get a switch box with audio out as part of it if I was to use it? Or did I miss something?
And the last question. Say I have a TV that natively accepts RGB, like some of the Sony PVM monitors, but have BNC inputs for it instead of SCART. Is there someone out there that makes Saturn to BNC rgb cables so I can just skip the whole scart thing altogether?
Geez sorry for all the questions.
Edit: Well guess that wasn't the last question. Seems that seller sold out of the Saturn cables. Anyone happen to know how often they restock? Thanks again, friendly friends.
sixteen-bit
Member
Anyone know a store selling the white Japanese analog pad?
Chiaroscuro
Member
eh, you have the exactly same doubts I had back a few pages. Let me explain what I learned:
1) yes, the Japanese RGB 21-pin is just for Japanese Saturns with Japanese TVs. I believe some scalers may use it too. But you do not need this cable. Avoid it.
2) Scart is a standard for connector, but it can carry a lot of different signals. This type of connector is common in Europe, but usually to carry a signal similar with s-vídeo. You will need a cable with the pin-out to carry a RGB signal and be compatible with the region of the console you have (NTSC or PAL) because the pin assignements are different.
3) But there is no commercial Scart cable like that in US. Some people assembles those type of cables, like the ebay seller retro_console_accessories. Those are the type you need.
4) For the Saturn, choose SCART NTSC RGB. She sells 2 types of cables, PAL and NTSC, just buy the NTSC one.
5) She also makes cables for other consoles, like the SNES and the Genesis. For the Genesis you do not need to worry about the region, her cables are all NTSC. But she listed cables for Genesis model 1 and Genesis model 2 (output connector is smaller). Plus there is also an option to include stereo áudio in the original Genesis (with is output only by the earphone connector, not by the back connector, so there is a special cable that joins this stereo audio with the vídeo. I will recommend this cable if you have a model 1 Genesis.
6) Her "raw sync" cables have additional componentes to make sure they work the best with scalers like the Framemeister. If you do not plan to buy one, just want to use a TV with componente, I see no reason to get them.
7) She re-stock very often, just check her auctions each few days. Better yet, save an ebay search that e-mails you when the cable is available.
8) If you are using a RGB to Component adapter you will also need an audio extractor like this:
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...hlink:top:en&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13682710703456
See page 46 for more explanations.
theSlacker
Member
4) For the Saturn, choose SCART NTSC RGB. She sells 2 types of cables, PAL and NTSC, just buy the NTSC one.
8) If you are using a RGB to Component adapter you will also need an audio extractor like this:
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...hlink:top:en&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13682710703456
Was actually thinking about something like this if I was going to go balls deep into all this stuff.
But really with the prices of all the games that I have been trying to snag being 20-30 ducets more then I am trying to get them for, who knows when I'll be able to get some games together.
The pal and ntsc scart thing takes me back a step in understanding though. Thought there was only normal RGB(pal), s-video, and then the 21 pin RGB Japanese one. That the part I had to worry about being ntsc was the Saturn side of that plug because the systems themselves have a different pin output in the different regions.
Anyway thank you for the help, double time, since it was reading and rereading the stuff you were asking about back on page 46 that gave me any idea at all, and a few places to start googling around.
sixteen-bit
Member
I need one of those SCART switches badly. This cable swappin' business ain't cutting it.