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Sega Saturn Appreciation and Emulation Thread

S

Shadow Hog

Member
I'll definitely agree the game is in dire need of an HD remake, though. The framerate is abysmal at points, and the low resolution graphics do it no favors either. A shame, because it's got a lot going for it.

I'm glad I picked my copy up for $50 when I did, heh. Mom actually confronted me about what made an old game worth $50... not sure how I'd explain $130. :V
 
D

Diablohead

Member
Chiaroscuro said:
Which horror stories??????
Click to expand...

While a DC is powered up, if you remove a controller or insert one there is a tiny chance you can blow a fuse which controls the ports, this can also happen just by using a DC if it's old.

It happened to my launch unit and before I totally realized how or why is stopped reading my controllers I bought a new one off ebay, you can fix it by either removing the fuse and binding the metal together bypassing it, or change the little circuit board the ports run off.

In a way the DC has a lot of small flaws everywhere, would have probably been talked about a lot more if the DC had a longer shelf life.
 
T

theSlacker

Member
s_mirage said:
What do you think causes the prices to rise in the first place? It's a few people paying over the top which then leads to all sellers asking extortionate amounts. If a single copy sells for an anomalously high amount you then see every seller on eBay setting their BIN prices around that value. The game isn't that rare, the Japanese version isn't expensive at all, and the European version costs nowhere near that much. If the price stays that high I'll eat my hat. If you just want to play it, get the Japanese version and see what happens to the US version's price.
Click to expand...

Been watching it raise for a while going back to when I was too proud to pay more then I originally wanted to get it for. Same with a lot of Saturn games. Shit is only going to go up while I keep thinking if something is worth it or not. Got a stack of other games I want to get first so it's still a ways off anyway, and prices keep raising.

goldenpp72 said:
Custom. I did a print out for the back and front but all the other games are their genuine versions. I actually remembered doing that and starting work on virtua fighter remix but noticed there seemed to be an awful lot of just right art for that one. Took awhile but I was informed of the different color disc and the one long box one and went from there.
Click to expand...

Well it looks great.
 
Bar81

Bar81

Member
goldenpp72 said:
Custom. I did a print out for the back and front but all the other games are their genuine versions. I actually remembered doing that and starting work on virtua fighter remix but noticed there seemed to be an awful lot of just right art for that one. Took awhile but I was informed of the different color disc and the one long box one and went from there.
Click to expand...

Mind sharing?
 
D

Draikin 2

Member
Concerning the NTSC version of Burning Rangers. I've been trying to figure out what resolution the game is actually supposed to run at, but the various emulators all seem to handle the aspect ratio differently. As far as I know, the game should be run in the Saturn's internal 352x224 resolution. But when running SSF with "Enforce Aspect Ratio" active (which I assume should be correct, although I don't know how it actually works) I get to see this when running SSF on my desktop (so the below screenshot was cut out from a simple print screen):

burning_rangers_SSF_screenshot_zpse3bd2b6b.jpg


This is 606x448. An odd resolution which doesn't correspond the any of the resolutions the Saturn is capable of outputting. But when I use SSF's screen capture functionality, it stores the image in a different resolution:

burning_rangers_SSF_snapshot_zps8dd88815.jpg


This is 704x448. That's a standard Saturn resolution (the exact double of 352x224 which I assumed Burning Rangers was running at), so this would make more sense. And the text ("Crystal" in the upper left corner) actually looks more readable. But the rest looks kind of stretched (though for all I know, this might actually be the correct output).

Then, using Yabause's own screen capture functionality, I get to see this (Yabause's screenshots are identical to what it actually outputs, unlike SSF):

burning_rangers_Yabause_screenshot_zps065476bc.jpg


That's 640x433, and in terms of aspect ratio it's somewhere in between the first two screenshots from SSF. Now I'm really confused. So I decide to dig up the long forgotten Satourne emulator, which just barely manages to start the game:

burning_rangers_Satourne_screenshot_zpse389225e.jpg


698×443. That's basically the same aspect ratio as 704x448.

So this isn't exactly a big issue, but I'd just like to know what settings are actually correct. Does anyone here know more about this?
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
oh man, that's totally one of those that changes res from title to game itself, my upscaler always reminds me of this...which i had more specifics for you
 
ResidentDante

ResidentDante

Member
Does this SSF emulator only run Saturn games in the resolution they used to be? I'd love a Saturn emulator like epsxe for the PS1. You can run games in high resolution and smooth the textures etc.
 
daninthemix

daninthemix

Member
ResidentDante said:
Dies this SSF emulator only run Saturn games in the resolution they used to be? I'd love a Saturn emulator like epsxe for the PS1. You can run games in high resolution and smooth the textures etc.
Click to expand...

Yabause is your only hope there, but it's years away from a decent, glitch-free level of compatibility.
 
D

Draikin 2

Member
Thanks for the replies. After looking into what SSF does to enforce the aspect ratio, I've noticed that it basically seems to resize to a near 4:3 aspect ratio. I guess that would sort of make sense given it's NTSC? It's kind of odd since this reminds me of how anamorphic video works for PAL Saturn games that support widescreen, but instead of stretching the width it's actually getting squished. I don't understand why it works that way though. How does a TV end up showing the correct aspect ratio?

In any case, the way SSF resizes the video isn't exactly all that great. It seems to use a very simply scaling algorithm and this is especially notable on text which becomes difficult to read. Yabause's resizing looks better, but perhaps that's also why it doesn't have the same aspect ratio as SSF.

IrishNinja said:
oh man, that's totally one of those that changes res from title to game itself, my upscaler always reminds me of this...which i had more specifics for you
Click to expand...
While the resolution does indeed change, the aspect ratio seems to remain the same. I think the menu screen simply uses double the resolution of what it uses ingame.

Yabause is your only hope there, but it's years away from a decent, glitch-free level of compatibility.
Click to expand...
Yabause is getting there, slowly but surely. Burning Rangers isn't quite playable yet but the potential is there:

chris_partn_comparison_zps1667e66b.jpg
 
T

televator

Member
Being a PC guy... yeah you guys are crazy. I'll take that AA and/or whatever sorts of filtering is going on there. I hate my games looking like they're censored. Just like with the PS1, if there's a decent emu for the Saturn that can smooth out edges and textures, I'll completely swap out hardware for emulation.
 
S

Shadow Hog

Member
oneida said:
Playing a Saturn game on a Saturn > playing a Saturn game "in HD" lol on a PC.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but seeing what the game would look like in "HD" is still fascinating, and is something I'd totally support.

Thing is, it'd probably break any tricks that relied on the frame buffer being a certain resolution... the dithered shadow under Chris there in the "HD" shot, notably, looks like utter shit, while it looks... well, passable in the SSF shot. I'm not sure at all what you could do about that. Probably nothing.

Also, HD would do jackshit for 2D games, which we can all agree is the Saturn's strong point anyway. Nevertheless, I like playing old 3D games in HD for no reason; generally old PC games, but checking out old console games in HD is nice to experiment with, too.

(And like I said, Burning Rangers could use a proper HD port, period... seriously.)
 
A Black Falcon

A Black Falcon

Member
Monado Blade said:
Call me crazy but I think I prefer the chunky blockiness of the original. Needs some scanlines and it'll be perfect.
Click to expand...

I wish there were PS1 and N64 emulators as accurate as SSF, I love that it's so much like the real thing... never managed to get PS1 or N64 emulation to look nearly so accurate, they all want to upscale and filter and stuff.

Of course, the best option is just to play the games on the real systems, and that's mostly what I do... but still, it would be nice to have those.
 
goldenpp72

goldenpp72

Member
Bar81 said:
Mind sharing?
Click to expand...

I don't mind sharing but, please keep in mind it has a few rough spots that are more obvious upon analyzing so, being that i'm pretty crappy using photo editing programs, I did my best without asking for help. With that said, the back part turned out better because someone else made it at a high res source and I just tweaked some stuff, where as the one I edited up (the front) was from a lower resolution source and was a bit rougher due to it (and other things). All of the art and components are of course not my own creation and things i found and pieced together, so again, full disclosure there. I'm sharing these since someone asked, and not as a means to brag as it's not work i'm proud of in the quality sense, just something I wanted to do for games with crappy slip covers and didn't want to bother others as most custom art is done for DVD cases.


Front (resolution should be 427X708 and printable size of 4.80 inches width and 7.96 inches tall according to gimp)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...tPrintRdyOutline_zps9c1fee0a.jpg?t=1376974126

Back

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...tsIntoDreamsBack_zps6bd2508e.jpg?t=1376974150

Sizes should already be appropriate 'Saturn case' sizes, if they aren't it's something Photobucket did. I also recall doing a spine for Astal since the spine has no name on it, but I do have the original insert for that under it as well, damn Sega :p

Edit: I actually found pictures I took of the box I have right when I finished it sometime earlier this year if I recall, so it gives an idea on how it looks in general.





 
T

theSlacker

Member
goldenpp72 said:
I don't mind sharing but, please keep in mind it has a few rough spots that are more obvious upon analyzing so, being that i'm pretty crappy using photo editing programs, I did my best without asking for help. With that said, the back part turned out better because someone else made it at a high res source and I just tweaked some stuff, where as the one I edited up (the front) was from a lower resolution source and was a bit rougher due to it (and other things). All of the art and components are of course not my own creation and things i found and pieced together, so again, full disclosure there. I'm sharing these since someone asked, and not as a means to brag as it's not work i'm proud of in the quality sense, just something I wanted to do for games with crappy slip covers and didn't want to bother others as most custom art is done for DVD cases.


Front

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...tPrintRdyOutline_zps9c1fee0a.jpg?t=1376974126

Back

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...tsIntoDreamsBack_zps6bd2508e.jpg?t=1376974150

Sizes should already be appropriate 'Saturn case' sizes, if they aren't it's something Photobucket did. I also recall doing a spine for Astal since the spine has no name on it, but I do have the original insert for that under it as well, damn Sega :p

Edit: I actually found pictures I took of the box I have right when I finished it sometime earlier this year if I recall, so it gives an idea on how it looks in general.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/goldenpp72/IMG_2397_zpsc707cfdf.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/goldenpp72/IMG_2399_zps5b3e6ccd.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/goldenpp72/IMG_2398_zps29c0413a.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
Click to expand...

Looks great man. Think photobucket did fuck up the front sizing though.

BlackClouds said:
Naw, found a disc copy that's at a much lower price with low interest http://www.ebay.com/itm/141038113683?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
Click to expand...

Give it time. All things rise at the end. Also for the price I listed, clearly I'm looking for a CIB version. Taking peoples advise though on it not being that great of a game for that money, even if it looked pretty good from the videos I've seen, and holding back for now.
 
goldenpp72

goldenpp72

Member
theSlacker said:
Looks great man. Think photobucket did fuck up the front sizing though.



Give it time. All things rise at the end. Also for the price I listed, clearly I'm looking for a CIB version. Taking peoples advise though on it not being that great of a game for that money, even if it looked pretty good from the videos I've seen, and holding back for now.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's hard to tell for me since i'm the account holder, but I did put in the proper (I think) width and such in the original post there, but I suppose if anyone actually seriously wanted the files I could upload them to them.

Also if you're not sure about burning rangers.. I played it for the first time about 6 months ago and found it to be pretty fun, not amazing but a solid 7.5 to 8 kind of game, seemed short but I suppose it's expected on a literal basis. The game kind of reminds of me Jet Force Gemini in some ways (but JFG is a better game :p)

IrishNinja said:
wow @ that burning rangers shot...i gotta load it up but i dont think my image is nearly as chunky as the left one

also ive been trying to play holiday themed games around those times, lining up this halloween with possibly corpse party & sweet home, likewise death smiles 2 for xmas but i really need to secure a copy of Christmas NiGHTS around then! can't be too expensive these days i figure
Click to expand...

A nice shape (disc with sleeve) copy was going for 20-30 bucks last I checked, i'd probably try to nab it up when it's not the holiday time frame though but that's a total assumption there :p
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
wow @ that burning rangers shot...i gotta load it up but i dont think my image is nearly as chunky as the left one

also ive been trying to play holiday themed games around those times, lining up this halloween with possibly corpse party & sweet home, likewise death smiles 2 for xmas but i really need to secure a copy of Christmas NiGHTS around then! can't be too expensive these days i figure
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
goldenpp72 said:
A nice shape (disc with sleeve) copy was going for 20-30 bucks last I checked, i'd probably try to nab it up when it's not the holiday time frame though but that's a total assumption there :p
Click to expand...

hmm i got like $15 of ebay bucks cashing out in october...was debating mega man 1 just to finish off my current NES collection but this might be a good one too, thanks man
 
L

lightchris

Member
Draikin 2 said:
Thanks for the replies. After looking into what SSF does to enforce the aspect ratio, I've noticed that it basically seems to resize to a near 4:3 aspect ratio. I guess that would sort of make sense given it's NTSC? It's kind of odd since this reminds me of how anamorphic video works for PAL Saturn games that support widescreen, but instead of stretching the width it's actually getting squished. I don't understand why it works that way though. How does a TV end up showing the correct aspect ratio?
Click to expand...

That's because TVs don't necessarily display pixels as squares. It's actually tuneable on CRTs (remember that on CRT monitors you could change things like height and width of the image?).
 
S

Seik

Banned
Draikin 2 said:
Yabause is getting there, slowly but surely. Burning Rangers isn't quite playable yet but the potential is there:

chris_partn_comparison_zps1667e66b.jpg
Click to expand...

:lol Okay, I'll take a look at Yabause. Sounds interesting.

I mean...damn. I do want that emulator to evolve as quickly as possible. O_O
 
S

sixteen-bit

Member
lightchris said:
That's because TVs don't necessarily display pixels as squares. It's actually tuneable on CRTs (remember that on CRT monitors you could change things like height and width of the image?).
Click to expand...

yeah lots of old consoles don't output at 4:3; the TV stretches it to that ratio. that's why 1:1 pixel screen shots often look "off".
 
S

sixteen-bit

Member
The Saturn Gradius and Salamander Deluxe Packs have fucked up display resolutions compared to the PS1 counterparts. This is because the Saturn isn't capable of outputting 256 x 224 like the original arcade versions and PS1 can.

Is the same true for Sexy Parodius? The lowest resolution Saturn is capable of is 320 x 224, but SP should actually already run at that resolution, right? I wonder because the PS1 version costs so much more.
 
O

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
Snkfanatic said:
Not sure if my Saturn works anymore to be honest....
Click to expand...
How's everyone's Saturn durability mileage? I've had the model 1 since around launch and it still works great. Which isn't to say I pampered the thing -- every single Saturn game I had as a kid is scratched to hell.

Conversely, all my original Dreamcast games work great, but my OG Dreamcast has some lens problems.
 
D

Dave Long

Banned
I have two dead Saturns. One got a bunch of crud in it during construction work in my house some years ago and I think that killed the drive. The other one arrived DOA from a guy I bought it from online.

The first one was my launch day system which still irritates me to no end, but that's life.

The third one is the one I'm using now and it's running great. Saturn hardware is pretty durable. In fact, most SEGA hardware is in my experience. They engineered their stuff pretty well. Even Dreamcast, despite the controller port problem many will encounter.
 
H

Hilbert

Deep into his 30th decade
I had some dead saturns back in the day. My current Saturn works fine though. I think it might be my third.
 
ResidentDante

ResidentDante

Member
I get the feeling the Saturn was more durable than the PS1. The cd-rom on PS1 seemed to get worn over time, the one on Saturn doesn't seem to have the same problem and it's faster and quieter.

I guess Sega had some experience with consoles and cd-roms from their Mega CD's.
 
K

KefkaTiMe

Neo Member
ResidentDante said:
I get the feeling the Saturn was more durable than the PS1. The cd-rom on PS1 seemed to get worn over time, the one on Saturn doesn't seem to have the same problem and it's faster and quieter.

I guess Sega had some experience with consoles and cd-roms from their Mega CD's.
Click to expand...

The Saturn had its own problems. I went through 3 Saturns that all ended up having Memory Card/expansion slot issues.
 
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