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[Alfarif]

Call me crazy, but when did having confidence in yourself make you arrogant? When did high self esteem become a BAD thing? When did acknowledging that failure exists but not dwelling on it mean that you were above others? When did it stop being okay to not wear every beat of your heart on your sleeve and just get things done?

In the last couple of months, I've had discussions with several people about self esteem. What started as general ribbing ("Dude, your self esteem is through the roof") has become a confusing mesh of finger waving with judicious use of "asshole" and "arrogant" for good measure. Are we so jaded that the idea of feeling good about yourself and loving life is just THAT terrible?

I've had people say that my constant enthusiasm and need to be creatively productive is really some deep seated psychological issue - like wearing a coat of armor, because I'm scared to face the truth. Maybe it's just because I REALLY like what I create? Is that too simple an explanation?

A coworker asked me if I was afraid that my business would fail because the statistics are against me (she also owns a small business). When I told her that I don't believe in failure, she said that there was something wrong with me. The reality is, while I know that statistics are against me, I don't think about them. If something doesn't work, I change my tactics. When I walk away from something, it's not because I gave up but because I lost interest. I've always been this way. I acknowledge that failure happens, but I will never focus on it when there's too much life to live and too many great, creative things to focus on.

What the heck is wrong with people?

 

[AceBandage]

They are weak. Kill them and wear their skin as a trophy.

 

[ZeroGravity]

You seem pretty defensive. Maybe there is something wrong with you.

 

[Solo]

Feed her pizza, but do it ironically

 

[X26]

uh, what? high self esteem is and always has been regarded as a good thing

unless you're posting from north korea you aren't making much sense

 

[SneakyStephan]

It's only arrogance when it comes paired with being judgemental of others.

 

[Salsa]

im hot as fuck

jealous?

 

[MisterHero]

Self esteem is wrong because you're ignoring peer pressure

 

[Kentpaul]

It's only arrogance when it comes paired with being judgemental of others.

well said.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

Arrogance is less warranted than confidence.

 

[Ranger X]

Having a good self-esteem is good. It's your attitude that can be arrogant. Sometimes, people are mixing attitude with personality.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

It's only arrogance when it comes paired with being judgemental of others.

Ding ding! I think arrogance is more related to when you start believing you're better than others.

 

[Angry Fork]

I have low self esteem but I don't judge those who are confident or anything. I aspire to be confident/have higher self esteem there's nothing wrong with it. There's a difference between that and cockyness and it's pretty obvious imo. As long as a person doesn't make every conversation about them then they're fine.

 

[Deku]

entrepreneurs need to be confident. I haven't met many entrepreneurs who weren't sure of themselves or their business plan.

But I think your coworkers and friends are confusing that and being realistic. Someone can be confident and be realistic at the same time.

Granted I haven't seen you in action, it's hard to pre-judge.

 

[Mononofu]

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Ding ding! I think arrogance is more related to when you start believing you're better than others.

I don't believe I'm better than others.

Spoiler

I know it.

 

[soultron]

It's only arrogance when it comes paired with being judgemental of others.

This.

Comparing yourself to those in a "lower" standpoint makes you a complacent piece of shit. Your analysis of others is "safe" and doesn't push you to improve yourself to become even better.

In the same sense, judging people higher than you just makes you seem bitter. Making excuses why you can't be where they are.

Stay focused on your own development and try not to judge others. This is confidence without arrogance, IMO.

 

[kehs]

If people are calling you arrogant, and you think it's just high self esteem, you are mistaken about what high self esteem is..

 

[The Technomancer]

It's only arrogance when it comes paired with being judgemental of others.

Bingo. I'll be honest: I have quite high self esteem. I think that I'm an intelligent capable person who doesn't worry or stress too much because I'm confident that even when shit happens I'll find a way to keep living, same as millions of people manage every day.
Nowhere in that is there any part of me that judges or compares me to other people and finds myself superior.
Also, crucially, the above does not cause me to ignore the advice or criticism of others, or to stop striving to improve my knowledge and my skills.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

There's nothing wrong with having high self esteem, but if you don't see how a statement like "I don't believe in failure" makes you look like a dumbass then I don't really know what to say.

I get that it is just a mindset, but ultimate statements like that do nothing but rub people who think differently the wrong way.


"I don't believe in failure." is too small of a sentence for such a big idea.
If you said "I believe in myself, and I am confident I will find a way to navigate this path, both good parts and bad." That wouldn't make anyone think negatively of you.

 

[Buckethead]

I didn't read anything in this thread, but I've found that a lot of insecure people mislabel confidence/self-esteem as arrogance.

Defense/hater mechanism.

 

[King of the Potato People]

Nothing wrong with a little self esteem, now this is ridiculous.

 

[Cubsfan23]

I've never heard of having too much self-esteem

 

[tiff]

If you really don't believe in failure then you are kinda weird.

 

[The Technomancer]

I've never heard of having too much self-esteem

It becomes a question of definition. What do we call the trait that causes people to ignore the desires, advice, and emotions of other people?

 

[thesoapster]

I've had people say that my constant enthusiasm and need to be creatively productive is really some deep seated psychological issue - like wearing a coat of armor, because I'm scared to face the truth.

What does this mean? Elaborate on being creatively productive.

 

[malingenie]

entrepreneurs need to be confident. I haven't met many entrepreneurs who weren't sure of themselves or their business

So, so true.

 

[The Technomancer]

What does this mean? Elaborate on being creatively productive.

I can be the same way, especially when I'm bored. At my old job at the Renaissance Faire I was infamous for making things out of sticks and twine, writing songs and epic poems and coming up with clever ways to attract attention all out of a deep seated discontent and desire to be doing something and creating something.

 

[JohnnyPhatsaqs]

To the OP - It's pretty much impossible for anyone here to say what's going on. You say one thing AND you say what the others are saying. No way for anyone to know what's what. I'm sure the truth is in there somewhere though.

Nothing wrong with self esteem. But there's a huge difference in having self esteem and being an asshole. If you're finding more than a few people think you're an asshole......maybe you're an asshole

Self esteem is one thing...but sometimes people that don't really have high esteem try and mask that by being overly confident.

 

[GillianSeed79]

I think someone I know put it best when she said we've been spending so much time teaching kids the importance of self-esteem that we've forgotten to teach them empathy.

 

[alphaNoid]

I don't even think there is anything wrong with arrogance. If you kick ass,kick ass.

 

[The Technomancer]

I think someone I know put it best when she said we've been spending so much time teaching kids the importance of self-esteem that we've forgotten to teach them empathy.

The problem is that we've gotten it backwards. We teach self esteem itself, instead of teaching them to be good people and letting the self esteem come with that.

 

[Cubsfan23]

It becomes a question of definition. What do we call the trait that causes people to ignore the desires, advice, and emotions of other people?

ego

 

[thesoapster]

I can be the same way, especially when I'm bored. At my old job at the Renaissance Faire I was infamous for making things out of sticks and twine, writing songs and epic poems and coming up with clever ways to attract attention all out of a deep seated discontent and desire to be doing something and creating something.

Well, you're interpreting his words in your own way. He hasn't really been specific about his own meaning. I somehow doubt he means making crafts or writing sonnets.

 

[Alfarif]

There's nothing wrong with having high self esteem, but if you don't see how a statement like "I don't believe in failure" makes you look like a dumbass then I don't really know what to say.

I get that it is just a mindset, but ultimate statements like that do nothing but rub people who think differently the wrong way.


"I don't believe in failure." is too small of a sentence for such a big idea.
If you said "I believe in myself, and I am confident I will find a way to navigate this path, both good parts and bad." That wouldn't make anyone think negatively of you.

Your expanded statement is what my shortened statement means. Utter failure (giving up and walking away) is not an act I will readily perform. I will find a way to always conquer the issue before me.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

I don't even think there is anything wrong with arrogance. If you kick ass,kick ass.

WTF dude.

 

[kehs]

I will find a way to always conquer the issue before me.

That's arrogance. Speaking in absolutes will always make you look like a fool, there is no way I'm wrong about that.

 

[Alfarif]

What does this mean? Elaborate on being creatively productive.

I'm not a very passive person. I always want to be working on something. I always have an idea for something and an always outlining and putting those actions into motion. I've always run headlong into creativity because it gives me life. The most exciting thing to me is coming up with an idea, outlining, and working on it.

 

[Draft]

If you can't tell the difference between confidence and arrogance, then you probably are arrogant.

Arrogance is confidence without the empathy necessary to not look like an asshole.

I will find a way to always conquer the issue before me.

For example, if you refer to situations as something to be "conquered," like you're the Goddamn courage wolf.

 

[Zaptruder]

You probably are arrogant. You let a clue slip out (I don't believe in failure), but we need more details and specifics.

 

[Alfarif]

That's arrogance. Speaking in absolutes will always make you look like a fool, there is no way I'm wrong about that.

I'll add a qualifier to it: with the help of an awesome crew of people.

Absolutes aren't that great but they do help get a point across. There is no way I could do what I do without a good crew of folks, but if I talked as if everything I did was with a hive mind, that would be kind of weird.

 

[Cubsfan23]

OP, you're better off just letting your actions (work) speak for you.

 

[FleckSplat]

You are now an adult. Congrats.

 

[The Technomancer]

Well, you're interpreting his words in your own way. He hasn't really been specific about his own meaning. I somehow doubt he means making crafts or writing sonnets.

Obviously not, but I believe he is referring to how some people are just compelled to be more productive then others, even if that productivity isn't actually all that productive. I'm doing my best to not come across as passing any value judgments here, as I'm honestly not, I just have met plenty of people who are able to be idle much easier then I am.

 

[kehs]

I'll add a qualifier to it: with the help of an awesome crew of people.

Absolutes aren't that great but they do help get a point across. There is no way I could do what I do without a good crew of folks, but if I talked as if everything I did was with a hive mind, that would be kind of weird.

Qualifiers help change arrogance to confidence.

 

[FleckSplat]

Caring about what other people think about you is bad.

Caring about other people is good.

Separate the two and you will find the difference between arrogance and confidence.

 

[params7]

You just sound arrogant but you aren't. You're positive but you do acknowledge that it is possible you will fail but you will move onto something else which works like you said, but you say "I don't believe in failure".

If you said that to me I would just think you're confident and upbeat though, I'm just thinking from her perspective. Being a small business owner she thinks she knows that acknowledging you can make mistakes/not succeed is an important part of running it.

 

[IcyBlueStrawberry]

Caring about what other people think about you is bad.

Caring about other people is good.

Separate the two and you will find the difference between arrogance and confidence.

I respect that you're trying to keep it simple, but that doesn't make much sense :/

 

[thesoapster]

I'm not a very passive person. I always want to be working on something. I always have an idea for something and an always outlining and putting those actions into motion. I've always run headlong into creativity because it gives me life. The most exciting thing to me is coming up with an idea, outlining, and working on it.

Well, these are likely good characteristics in themselves. However if you constantly share your ideas/vision with others in an attempt to get them to think X needs improvement/change, I can see how you might come across as arrogant. It would make it seem like you always think you are right and know what's best. Just a thought.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

Your expanded statement is what my shortened statement means. Utter failure (giving up and walking away) is not an act I will readily perform. I will find a way to always conquer the issue before me.

I know, thats the point.
There is just an incredibly important distinction between the way those two statements make people react to you.

The gist of communication is not in the idea itself, those already exist. Its in the way you convey the idea to others, I guess is what I was trying to say. Its not about how you feel, its about how you describe the way you feel.