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[Deleted member 231381]

I mean, if the EU want to protect Russia so that Russia can continue interfering with the sovereign politics of EU nations, I guess that's their choice. Seems weird to me. I would do a different thing.

Ultimately if the EU want Russia to actually stop fucking with people they should start thinking about how to actually hurt them economically. Not buying all your energy from them might be a place to start.

This also hurts the EU, though, since they then have to acquire considerably more expensive energy at very short notice, causing a price hike for hundreds of millions of people and threatening recession because of the strong relationship between energy prices and economic output. The EU also can't hope but notice that the US is the main alternative energy market, making this look grossly self-interested.

In long run, the EU has been drawing down energy dependency on Russia. But that kind of infrastructure takes a decade if not longer to have in place. Accordingly, these measures just make the United States less liked by all its allies, and makes implementing actually effective Russian counter-measures harder.

I see the Americans in this thread have absolutely no regard for their allies regardless of the political side they fall on. Sanders being the only sane Senator in a body of 100 doesn't speak much to American prowess.

 

[Ishan]

This also hurts the EU, though, since they then have to acquire considerably more expensive energy at very short notice, causing a price hike for hundreds of millions of people and threatening recession because of the strong relationship between energy prices and economic output. The EU also can't hope but notice that the US is the main alternative energy market, making this look grossly self-interested.

In long run, the EU has been drawing down energy dependency on Russia. But that kind of infrastructure takes a decade if not longer to have in place. Accordingly, these measures just make the United States less liked by all its allies, and makes implementing actually effective Russian counter-measures harder.

I see the Americans in this thread have absolutely no regard for their allies regardless of the political side they fall on. Sanders being the only sane Senator in a body of 100 doesn't speak much to American prowess.

many americans are americentric. They dont get the world doenst fully revolve around america. Its understandbale they are the sole superpower currently. Plus given the turmoil currently in the us political scene I frankly dont blame them being fully focussed on it.

 

[Principate]

So what you're saying is Bernie, along with the infinite wisdom of Rand Paul were the only two in the entire body who had it figured out.

You realise this could start a trade war with the EU right?

 

[Dopus]

I'm looking forward to the EU responding in kind. The US needs to stop meddling in our affairs and attempting to establish market dominance.

 

[Duffman]

Millions of European homes are heated with russian gas during winters. Americans are screwing up their allies big time.

 

[SKINNER!]

You are supposed to talk and coordinate with allies so you don't put them into danger or into impossible situation.

Yet here we are.

Didn't you get the memo? America First!! USA USA USA!

 

[SilentRob]

I mean, if the EU want to protect Russia so that Russia can continue interfering with the sovereign politics of EU nations, I guess that's their choice. Seems weird to me. I would do a different thing.

Ultimately if the EU want Russia to actually stop fucking with people they should start thinking about how to actually hurt them economically. Not buying all your energy from them might be a place to start.

This is not about that. This is about talking with your closest allies and finding a solution that benefits both. The EU isn't vehemently against Russia sanctions period. The EU is against the US going at it alone, ignoring their allies' interests and years of established protocol.

It's almost as if international politics are complicated and multi-layered!

 

[SamVimes]

I guess I just assumed the citizens of the EU wanted, you know, democratic self-determination and would consider that a priority.

Easy to say when your economy isn't in shambles. Tell me how you stop the Russian stooges when the situation gets inevitably worse.

This is basic US foreign policy, who gives a shit about long term consequences, especially if they only hurt our allies and not us. Maybe next time try to coordinate with them.

 

[Tovarisc]

Russia's answer.

The total number of personnel in US diplomatic and consular missions will be downsized to 455 people, according to the Russian Foreign Ministry.

"We suggest the American side should equal the number of diplomatic and technical staff working in the US Embassy to Moscow and the consulates general in St. Petersburg, Yekaterinburg and Vladivostok to the exact number of Russian diplomats and technical staff members working in the US before September 1," the Russian ministry said in a statement.

"This means that the total number of the staff engaged in US diplomatic and consular establishments will be reduced to 455 people," the Russian Foreign Ministry reported.
Moscow has also suspended from August 1 use by the US embassy in Russia the warehouses in Dorozhnaya Street and the property in Serebryany Bor, the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement, published on Friday.

The ministry said, on July 27, the US Congress adopted a new bill on tougher sanctions against Russia.

"The Russian side suspends from August 1 use by the US embassy in Russia of all the warehouses in Dorozhnaya Street in Moscow and of the property in Serebryany Bor," the Foreign Ministry said.

http://tass.com/politics/958114

 

[jiiikoo]

Russia's answer.

http://tass.com/politics/958114

I was kinda hoping it was the Pee Pee tape. Well, another day then Putin!

 

[KingV]

The Obama camp eventually accepted the bill and decided that normalizing trade was more important than protecting ogliarchs, even if that did shovel dirt on their dream of a reset. Bernie took the opposite view. Just as he did here by deciding caution on the nuclear deal is better than punishing Russia for election meddling. His priorities are consistently soft on Russia.

The reality is that Obama was trying to be soft on Russia, with the Russian reset and knew that Jackson Vanik had to be a part of that. IMO this was just a compromise to get rid of Jackson Vanik.

I actually agree with Bernie that the Russian and Iran and NK sanctions should not be tied together, I just also think that the Russian sanctions are important enough to suck up that this is kind of a shitty bill in some ways.

Bernie is wrong to vote against this for effectively procedural reasons, but Hillary and Obama wanted to tie up the Magnitsky Act in committee too. Heck, Clinton did it right after Bill was paid 500K from a speech in Russia. I don't think anyone is corrupt her, just that the attitude towards Russia in 2012 was different and that Bernie often votes against bills for dumb procedural reasons.

 

[dallow_bg]

When does the bill land on Trump's desk?

 

[Coolluck]

The reality is that Obama was trying to be soft on Russia, with the Russian reset and knew that Jackson Vanik had to be a part of that. IMO this was just a compromise to get rid of Jackson Vanik.

I actually agree with Bernie that the Russian and Iran and NK sanctions should not be tied together, I just also think that the Russian sanctions are important enough to suck up that this is kind of a shitty bill in some ways.

Bernie is wrong to vote against this for effectively procedural reasons, but Hillary and Obama wanted to tie up the Magnitsky Act in committee too. Heck, Clinton did it right after Bill was paid 500K from a speech in Russia. I don't think anyone is corrupt her, just that the attitude towards Russia in 2012 was different and that Bernie often votes against bills for dumb procedural reasons.

Sources for that reality, please.

 

[KingV]

I think you forgot to use the word alleged as nothing had been proven.

Thanks Boris.

Is you hammer and sickle tattoo on your arm or over your heart?

This guy needs a Russian Agent tag. Since becoming a jr, he only posts to claim there is no proof that Russia did things we know they did.

 

[KingV]

Sources for that reality, please.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...hecking-clinton-cash-author-claim-about-bill/

Here you go. Proof that Bill Clinton received $500K for a speech in Russia in 2010.

And here is an fo article criticizing Hillarys position on Russia from 2012:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/06/21/abandoning-sergei-magnitsky/amp/

Edit: the point isn't to say that Hillary or Obama are corrupt on Russia, but only that there were lots of people soft on a Russian 4 or 5 years ago. Hillary and Obama opposed the Magnitsky Act because of the concern that it would jeapordize the "Russian Reset", and singling out Bernie for voting against it and insinuating that he is some sort of Russian agent is a bit selective.

 

[TatteredHat]

If you guys could maybe not try to trigger a second recession in the EU that'd be great, thanks.

 

[Horns]

I do have concerns with limiting presidential powers in the long term. Trump isn't going to be in office for long. Congress is a mess that accomplishes little and partisan politics rules. I fear quick reactions now will have future consequences. On the other hand, Trump cannot be trusted with such powers. This is a tough one as I am conflicted.

 

[Muffin1611]

This also hurts the EU, though, since they then have to acquire considerably more expensive energy at very short notice, causing a price hike for hundreds of millions of people and threatening recession because of the strong relationship between energy prices and economic output. The EU also can't hope but notice that the US is the main alternative energy market, making this look grossly self-interested.

In long run, the EU has been drawing down energy dependency on Russia. But that kind of infrastructure takes a decade if not longer to have in place. Accordingly, these measures just make the United States less liked by all its allies, and makes implementing actually effective Russian counter-measures harder.

I see the Americans in this thread have absolutely no regard for their allies regardless of the political side they fall on. Sanders being the only sane Senator in a body of 100 doesn't speak much to American prowess.

You said all I tried to say and more. Thanks, Crab.

 

[shawnbuddy]

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...hecking-clinton-cash-author-claim-about-bill/

Here you go. Proof that Bill Clinton received $500K for a speech in Russia in 2010.

And here is an fo article criticizing Hillarys position on Russia from 2012:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/06/21/abandoning-sergei-magnitsky/amp/

Edit: the point isn't to say that Hillary or Obama are corrupt on Russia, but only that there were lots of people soft on a Russian 4 or 5 years ago. Hillary and Obama opposed the Magnitsky Act because of the concern that it would jeapordize the "Russian Reset", and singling out Bernie for voting against it and insinuating that he is some sort of Russian agent is a bit selective.

He's not an agent, he's just soft on Russia. You can "but Clinton" it all you want but he's softer than Clinton. The only people softer are Rohrabacher and Trump, and they have the excuse of ACTUALLY being Russian agents.

 

[KingV]

He's not an agent, he's just soft on Russia. You can "but Clinton" it all you want but he's softer than Clinton. The only people softer are Rohrabacher and Trump, and they have the excuse of ACTUALLY being Russian agents.

Yes he is consistently anti-war.

Again, I don't agree with him, but I read your comment as an insinuation that he was somehow compromised by or an agent of Russia. Which I think is false. I just think he is misguided on this issue.

 

[Big Baybee]

Yes he is consistently anti-war.

Again, I don't agree with him, but I read your comment as an insinuation that he was somehow compromised by or an agent of Russia. Which I think is false. I just think he is misguided on this issue.

His insinuation was that Sanders is soft on Russia, which he is. There is a clear record of this. Why are you taking it so personally?

 

[shawnbuddy]

Yes he is consistently anti-war.

Again, I don't agree with him, but I read your comment as an insinuation that he was somehow compromised by or an agent of Russia. Which I think is false. I just think he is misguided on this issue.

Sorry if I gave you that impression. Not what I was going for.

 

[SecretMoblin]

Russia loves this bill; it drives the wedge between allies even deeper while not doing much to the people at the top.

But NeoGAF's OT has become PNAC over the last few months, so anything short of forcing a continent-wide economic disaster because you're pissy over losing an election is seen as being "soft" or "weak".

 

[Dr.Horrible]

It's being reported that Trump will in fact sign the bill.

 

[Eusis]

It's being reported that Trump will in fact sign the bill.

Wonder whether he realized the optics would be damning, or if he saw Russia's reaction and went "fuck you then, how dare you strike at me?"

Probably the latter. He is that petty.

 

[Opto]

Hopefully it gets the pee tape released. I'd hope that with Putin not getting his cash flow cleared, he won't give a fuck

 

[ratcliffja]

Wonder whether he realized the optics would be damning, or if he saw Russia's reaction and went "fuck you then, how dare you strike at me?"

Probably the latter. He is that petty.

Or there was absolutely no point in vetoing something that would be overruled. He hates to lose and he knows that Putin's not going to retaliate against him when he had no control over the situation.

 

[slit]

It's being reported that Trump will in fact sign the bill.

Yeah, I saw that. Haha, look at the weak little man that was bitchslapped by Congress.

 

[ThaiGrocer]

It's being reported that Trump will in fact sign the bill.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/344433-trump-to-sign-russia-sanctions-bill

Good. Even at this point I want to be 100% sure and make sure he signs first haha. I don't want to wake up to some stupid trick he's schemed over night.

 

[Evil Monkey DTT]

It's being reported that Trump will in fact sign the bill.

Who says, him or his staff?

 

[Dr.Horrible]

Who says, him or his staff?

Trump to Sign Russia Sanctions Bill, White House Says https://nyti.ms/2u6oM4o

In a statement on Friday night, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the White House press secretary, said that the president had “read early drafts of the bill and negotiated regarding critical elements of it.”

“He has now reviewed the final version and, based on its responsiveness to his negotiations, approves the bill and intends to sign it,” she said.

 

[RPGCrazied]

He doesn't have a choice. If he didn't sign them it would show him an even bigger Russian stooge then he is now.

 

[Dead Prince]

he he going to live stream it? i want to see his melting face

 

[And_Gignac]

He's not an agent, he's just soft on Russia. You can "but Clinton" it all you want but he's softer than Clinton. The only people softer are Rohrabacher and Trump, and they have the excuse of ACTUALLY being Russian agents.

He is soft on international confrontation / intervention. One of the reasons why people like him.

 

[Widdle Puppy]

is there a way to do this that doesn't fuck with the EU?

 

[slit]

is there a way to do this that doesn't fuck with the EU?

The only thing that might work is if the EU tries to defend Russia's case to the WTO and make it look like they are trying to help them. By the time that is settled Russia will have already been spanked anyway. I don't know if Putin will fall for that though.

 

[KingV]

Sorry if I gave you that impression. Not what I was going for.

No worries, it's just the interwebz anyway.

 

[Azuran]

is there a way to do this that doesn't fuck with the EU?

Sure. All you have to do is get Donald "America First!" Trump to have a change of heart so he loves the EU more than Daddy Putin.

So no.

 

[ThaiGrocer]

No articles on him signing the bill (or not) yet. I think. My google is weak tonight.

edit:
here's the current situation from like two hours ago
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/344692-will-trump-hold-signing-ceremony-on-russian-sanctions

 

[SaviourMK2]

I get why Bernie Sanders voted no, but why Ron Paul?

 

[cameron]

https://twitter.com/AlexNBCNews/status/892359854811222016


AP: VP Pence says Trump will sign Russia sanctions soon

MOSCOW (AP) — U.S. Vice President Mike Pence says President Donald Trump will sign a bill on a new package of sanctions against Russia.

The Senate voted last week to approve the new financial sanctions against Moscow. The legislation bars Trump from easing or waiving the penalties on Russia unless Congress agrees.

Pence, who is visiting the former Soviet republic of Georgia Tuesday, said the Trump administration “had concerns” about the bill when it was drafted in the Senate, but that Trump will sign it soon.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

I guess I just assumed the citizens of the EU wanted, you know, democratic self-determination and would consider that a priority.

It would be great if we could do this by not letting people freeze to death because a lot of European countries rely on Russian gas for keeping their homes warm in the winter.

It sucks, and I would be upset by the EU otherwise, but it is what it is right now. Unfortunately we need the gas to not have people literally freeze to death or have a serious impact on gas distribution.

 

[Trojita]

The sanctions mainly affect the pipeline Germany wants, that the Eastern European countries, hate anyway.

 

[Betty]

wonder if Trump is stalling because they have a plan or something.

 

[BoogieWoogie]

He's not going to sign it. He's a bitch. It'll just go into law anyway past him and he'll never mention it to save face.

 

[hidys]

I doubt there would be near unanimous Republican support for this bill in the Senate if there wasn't a 100% chance the President would sign the bill.

 

[Beartruck]

wonder if Trump is stalling because they have a plan or something.

Theyre going to let the deadline expire and hope nobody notices. If he really is in Putin's pocket, its probably his safest play. He can tell Putin he never approved it, and the official excuse can be something like "in light of the current investigation, it would be a conflict of interest to involve himself in this bill."