But a moonsault makes sense and is a way to splash your torso on someone instead of just your elbow. A moonsault makes sense because it's just turning around in mid-air rather than turning around on the turnbuckle for a splash/senton.
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September Wrasslin' |OT| Almost Brings a tear to my eye
- Thread starter Sibersk Esto
- Start date
But a moonsault makes sense and is a way to splash your torso on someone instead of just your elbow. A moonsault makes sense because it's just turning around in mid-air rather than turning around on the turnbuckle for a splash/senton.
British Monsoon
Member
Fine, a simple splash then. Aiii's argument is that if a flippy move doesn't hit flush (as is often the case with moonsaults), why on earth would you not do a far simpler move with a much higher chance of success? My argument is; who gives a shit? FLIPS!!
Hey, and that's fair if that's your thing. I don't really need ultra-realism in my staged fighting either, but doing 10 flips and then missing is like sleeping with Scarlett Johansson and then coming on the bedsheets, it's still great and all, but it's just not quite right.
British Monsoon
Member
Well, as I'm sure any commentator worth their salt would point out, that's why they call it "high risk".
You got a point there, both commentary and the wrestlers should really just handle botches as mistakes. Shit goes wrong in real fighting all the time to, you try something but miss, the opponent ducks whatever. So if a guy misses, it should be "Oh no, he missed" and the other wrestler should be "yes, you got my knees in your stomach, this is my opportunity to get back into the fight."
That would be so much better than pretending the move DID connect and nothing is wrong.
So Kenta slipped on the rope last week, that's fine, it's a new ring he's not used to. Say THAT, it's fine, he slipped, ropes are shiny and slippery.
I ain't ever seen a flippy dippy move look like as effective or as murderous as a Rick Rude diving knee drop or an Umaga flying sausage.
True facts. Imagine if your boy Stan Hansen decided to start doing that dumbass Roman Reigns powerup shit before he did lariats.
True facts. Imagine if your boy Stan Hansen decided to start doing that dumbass Roman Reigns powerup shit before he did lariats.
British Monsoon
Member
Sometimes it isn't all about looking as effective as possible - if realism were what wrestling was striving for, it'd certainly look a hell of a lot different than it does today.
Data West said:
Yeah, that'd suck, but Stan had his own powerup, sort-of; lift arm, adjust elbow pad, hog call, fucking lariatooooo
Aiii said:
Definitely, it really bugs me when they do their damnedest to ignore mistakes and pretend shit connected - if it happens on the indies, commentators usually say something like "crash and burn!" or "I don't think he hit that fully", etc.
Fine, a simple splash then. Aiii's argument is that if a flippy move doesn't hit flush (as is often the case with moonsaults), why on earth would you not do a far simpler move with a much higher chance of success? My argument is; who gives a shit? FLIPS!!
Fuck that shit. Flips are fine in moderation but when the entire match is nothing but flips and tiger driver sit out neck breaker on my knee off the top then its shite.
There is no balance it is just extremes and that is old hat. It got tiresome in 2007 when every Indy was the exact same thing and had been for 5 years plus at the point. It's been 12 fucking years of the rise of independents and the only identity they found for themselves was flips.
Perfect a suplex, a DDT, a basic slam and for once move away from flips and super kicks.
But whatever guys I used to blow my load over it all too, to someone to somewhere this shit is new. Good for them I guess.
FlammableD
Banned
Yeah, that's what I was leaning towards. I think Havoc going down needs to be 1 on 1.
British Monsoon
Member
"Old Man Yells At Cloud: The Thread"
Where are my indie wrestling bros at? Need some backup, lol. I don't know about you guys, but Jack Evans doing some ridiculous unsafe flip evokes the same sort of reaction in me today as it did 10 years ago. He's a crazy fucker who I'd love to see in multi-man tags and scramble matches, but would I want to see him outside of that setting? Not particularly. But what I love about indie wrestling is that it's an opportunity for various styles and ethoses to come together and perform, excite and innovate. That Matt Sydal gif that started this came from an ROH show which featured; high flying, hardcore, European technical wrestling, shootstyle wrestling, strongstyle and lucha influences. Not all in the same match, of course, but across a 3 hour card that was (shock horror to you regular viewers of RAW) a lot of FUN from start to finish. Sure, there was a lot of shit that was dumb, but then there was a lot of shit that was genuinely awesome as well and I was well entertained. That's what counts and, if you don't like it, fine. It just amazes me how bent out of shape some people get when exposed to indie wrestling, as well as how limited the reach of their wrestling appreciation is.
I liken it to being a movie fan who can't appreciate dumb action films, or even acknowledge that they have their place in cinema. No fun allowed.
Where are my indie wrestling bros at? Need some backup, lol. I don't know about you guys, but Jack Evans doing some ridiculous unsafe flip evokes the same sort of reaction in me today as it did 10 years ago. He's a crazy fucker who I'd love to see in multi-man tags and scramble matches, but would I want to see him outside of that setting? Not particularly. But what I love about indie wrestling is that it's an opportunity for various styles and ethoses to come together and perform, excite and innovate. That Matt Sydal gif that started this came from an ROH show which featured; high flying, hardcore, European technical wrestling, shootstyle wrestling, strongstyle and lucha influences. Not all in the same match, of course, but across a 3 hour card that was (shock horror to you regular viewers of RAW) a lot of FUN from start to finish. Sure, there was a lot of shit that was dumb, but then there was a lot of shit that was genuinely awesome as well and I was well entertained. That's what counts and, if you don't like it, fine. It just amazes me how bent out of shape some people get when exposed to indie wrestling, as well as how limited the reach of their wrestling appreciation is.
I liken it to being a movie fan who can't appreciate dumb action films, or even acknowledge that they have their place in cinema. No fun allowed.
I think I remember he busted a few out in WCW, esp the early years - Stro probably has some jifs of Eddie's head bouncing off the mat.
To further my Scott Norton push:
And I like indie wrestling - when it's not completely stupid and suicidal.
spinningdoubleddt.gif
British Monsoon
Member
Probably, but it'd be nice to come here and have a discussion that's actually about indie wrestling, rather than a discussion about how stupid people find it. Perhaps not the best forum for it, I guess.
Also those ReDragon guys have one of the worst finisher of all time. When I saw it, it took like 5 minutes of watching the gif before realizing, 'oh my god that's actually what they're going for?' just do a top rope piledriver or something. If you're struggling that hard to make an original move just let it go.
I think the modern version of independent wrestling in the last 5 years is as bad if not worse than the current WWE product. I think it's in an awful state in general, and I think they need to start over because at this point it's just 'LET ME GET MY SHIT IN' wrestlers training other new wrestlers to focus entirely on 'LET ME GET MY SHIT IN.' So that's the only discussion I would have on indie wrestling. I can either discuss it in a critical sense, or I can ignore it. But I'm not gonna sit here and pretend I like it when I struggle to get through a DGUSA or an EVOLVE card. And I hate the ECW style crowd atmosphere. It causes the wrestlers to look at a match as a display of spots and always trying to make a bigger spot instead of pacing a better match. There's no buildup, it's high throttle at all time. You make the action movie comparison, but to me, WWE is an action movie in their matches. It's quick, it has its spots, with some tedium inbetween. Most indie matches are Michael Bay movies where it's just a constant stream of pointless explosions so the crowd can continue to yell OH SHIT at the movie screen.
And holy hell I could spend all day talking about how similar so many indie wrestlers look and dress.
And someone should post this Scott Steiner interview in OT
I think the modern version of independent wrestling in the last 5 years is as bad if not worse than the current WWE product. I think it's in an awful state in general, and I think they need to start over because at this point it's just 'LET ME GET MY SHIT IN' wrestlers training other new wrestlers to focus entirely on 'LET ME GET MY SHIT IN.' So that's the only discussion I would have on indie wrestling. I can either discuss it in a critical sense, or I can ignore it. But I'm not gonna sit here and pretend I like it when I struggle to get through a DGUSA or an EVOLVE card. And I hate the ECW style crowd atmosphere. It causes the wrestlers to look at a match as a display of spots and always trying to make a bigger spot instead of pacing a better match. There's no buildup, it's high throttle at all time. You make the action movie comparison, but to me, WWE is an action movie in their matches. It's quick, it has its spots, with some tedium inbetween. Most indie matches are Michael Bay movies where it's just a constant stream of pointless explosions so the crowd can continue to yell OH SHIT at the movie screen.
And holy hell I could spend all day talking about how similar so many indie wrestlers look and dress.
And someone should post this Scott Steiner interview in OT
FlammableD
Banned
HILLBILLY HELL
Good to see new jack sober for a change. I'm curious to find out who was the wrestler New Jack punched which died within a few weeks.
British Monsoon
Member
Your Michael Bay comparison describes one, maybe two matches from the last EVOLVE show - a crazy 3-way tag match and a main event with Ricochet. The other 4 matches on the card were far from the "gotta get my shit in" stereotype often ascribed to indie wrestling - two of those matches saw the wrestlers spend the entire contest on the mat, while the EVOLVE title match with Drew vs Roddy was as perfectly paced match as you're likely to find. There were a lot of varied styles at work on that show and it all came together perfectly, by comparison a WWE show's all the same pace (unless Brock's wrestling) and, frankly, I find it pretty dull. And even when I DO really enjoy it, my opinions rarely seem to match up with anyone else's - I loved that Jericho/Orton match, for instance, but most of WrassleGAF couldn't have cared less.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Bootaaay's turning his back on the WrassleGAF Universe, telling us we ain't shit.
Let's watch Bloodymania and bask in the indie enjoyment.
Let's watch Bloodymania and bask in the indie enjoyment.
slightconfuse
Banned
Botaaay you have my Sword
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Would love if indy guys and hell WWE now would just realize that "getting all your shit in" and then the other person kicking out of it all and especially if you're losing the match anyway just makes all your shit look weak.
If I'm going to watch trashy death match wrestling, I'm going to watch some Yakuza funded FMW death match wrestling.
CZW and IWA don't even know how to get creative with their garbage wrestling like Onita did with his Double Hell death matches in a pool. That's living the dream, friends. I can only watch garbage wrestling if it's ridiculously over the top and not some amateur hour junk. Watching Mr. Pogo stab Onita with a sickle, and you're just sitting there like, 'what the fuck is going on with this promotion'
CZW and IWA don't even know how to get creative with their garbage wrestling like Onita did with his Double Hell death matches in a pool. That's living the dream, friends. I can only watch garbage wrestling if it's ridiculously over the top and not some amateur hour junk. Watching Mr. Pogo stab Onita with a sickle, and you're just sitting there like, 'what the fuck is going on with this promotion'
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Sibersk Esto
Banned
wtf?
Imagine you're a Japanese salaryman in the 90s. You come home to your wife and kids, and you say to them, "I got us tickets to go see the Anus Explosion Death Match! What, it's too ridiculous? I thought you'd say that, so I got us tickets to see the Yokohama Amazon River Piranha Death Match instead!"
Sibersk Esto
Banned
I didn't know Josh Matthews was joining TNA
Sibersk Esto
Banned
What kind of smut are you peddling in this thread Aiii?
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Where are you really from?
As my nickname would betray, I've actually been watching some Ali G lately so I've picked up shitty slang again. My bad, just ignore it. I'll try to mind my words and write in superior English again.
Vince would only want a lifeguard-styled lumberjack match... Now we need that Nash jumping into the pool gif...
British Monsoon
Member
The K.E.S. vs TenKoji match at King of Pro-Wrestling will be their 12th match on PPV in 2 years. At this point it's almost as bad as the endless Yano/Suzuki feud.
I'm not turning my back on anything, I'm like Cena, you can't get rid of me.
CZW got pretty creative with some of those cages of death, but US deathmatch wrestling is a pale imitation of 90's Japanese deathmatch wrestling, I agree. The Japanese promotions went all in, especially Onita, although BJW had a few mad ideas. The animal deathmatches, for one, and the crazy outdoor shows.
I'm not turning my back on anything, I'm like Cena, you can't get rid of me.
CZW got pretty creative with some of those cages of death, but US deathmatch wrestling is a pale imitation of 90's Japanese deathmatch wrestling, I agree. The Japanese promotions went all in, especially Onita, although BJW had a few mad ideas. The animal deathmatches, for one, and the crazy outdoor shows.
Those Panama City Beach episodes of WCW Nitro were always must see TV. Screw Vince for not going outside the box for some episodes of RAW.
Ryuji Ito's chest is fucking gross
I always thought the Spring Break episodes were legitimately cool and made WCW seem cooler than WWF. Plus it was outdoors, so you didn't get to see stuff like that very often.
I always thought the Spring Break episodes were legitimately cool and made WCW seem cooler than WWF. Plus it was outdoors, so you didn't get to see stuff like that very often.
British Monsoon
Member
slightconfuse
Banned
FMW was so dumb
Talk about a Michael bay promotion
Talk about a Michael bay promotion
BronsonLee
Member
What the fuck happened while I was asleep?! We're a family, dammit!
...also flips are cool in two points: showboating (SSP and such) and the illusion of more damage (Jack Evans doing a 630 looks like it hits harder than Jack Evans doing a splash)
...also flips are cool in two points: showboating (SSP and such) and the illusion of more damage (Jack Evans doing a 630 looks like it hits harder than Jack Evans doing a splash)
Here's a new return from ban gif starring MiSu
Their razorboard alpha match is gross. Like I can appreciate the Pogo and Onita stuff because it is violent, but they're doing so much ridiculous theatrics to help not murder themselves. Mostly Onita because Pogo sucks shit for taking bumps. But the modern BJW stuff it's just kinda like 'we got all this stuff that hurts. Let's use it.' And a lot of the time they use it in such a way that I'm like 'come on guys. you can dial back a little bit on the actual bump itself. You don't need to brainbuster a dude onto this
BronsonLee
Member
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